Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 10 months ago

Maybe we'll get Monastery Mentor or Smothering Tithe this year.
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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 10 months ago

Cool to see some great reprints, although I will say it seems a strange place to put them. This seems targeted at like, serious newbies. And then there's some serious fat for you which I assume isn't standard legal, so what do you do with it?

I may just be salty that I can't afford this stuff but it does seem a strange place to put stuff like Oracle and Rhystic, stuff that eternal format players have been clamoring for for quite some time now. I guess there's always buying singles, hopefully we'll see a reasonable price drop for this stuff.

In terms of new prints there's really nothing that's come through I'm super excited about. But again, I'm not the target audience for that stuff.
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Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

On a new card note - I've wanted a Unicorn Commander for a long time, but now that we have Emiel the Blessed I must confess myself...disappointed. Mostly I guess I'm disappointed in the lack of good unicorns to actually go tribal though - as a better and easier to use Eldrazi Displacer that starts in the command zone Emiel seems like he'll be great. He creates infinite EtB/LtB Triggers with Brood Monitor and Workhorse (which can then be parlayed into infinite life with various Soul Sisters, infinite draw with Elemental Bond, etc). Panharmonicon and Heartstone helps to expand what he goes infinite with (extending it to Hidden Herbalists, Eyeless Watcher, Kozilek's Predator, and Birthing Hulk ) and allows the first few to generate infinite mana. Also infinites with anything that makes 2+ non-Eldrazi tokens on EtB and an Ashnod's Altar. Lots of combo power.

Here's hoping we get a few more decent unicorns though, as right now the deck is heavily reliant on Good-Fortune Unicorn, Emiel, and Metallic Mimic sticking a bunch of counters on french vanilla mediocrity and praying for the best.

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Post by Inkeyes22 » 10 months ago

Hawk wrote:
10 months ago
On a new card note - I've wanted a Unicorn Commander for a long time, but now that we have Emiel the Blessed I must confess myself...disappointed. Mostly I guess I'm disappointed in the lack of good unicorns to actually go tribal though - as a better and easier to use Eldrazi Displacer that starts in the command zone Emiel seems like he'll be great. He creates infinite EtB/LtB Triggers with Brood Monitor and Workhorse (which can then be parlayed into infinite life with various Soul Sisters, infinite draw with Elemental Bond, etc). Panharmonicon and Heartstone helps to expand what he goes infinite with (extending it to Hidden Herbalists, Eyeless Watcher, Kozilek's Predator, and Birthing Hulk ) and allows the first few to generate infinite mana. Also infinites with anything that makes 2+ non-Eldrazi tokens on EtB and an Ashnod's Altar. Lots of combo power.

Here's hoping we get a few more decent unicorns though, as right now the deck is heavily reliant on Good-Fortune Unicorn, Emiel, and Metallic Mimic sticking a bunch of counters on french vanilla mediocrity and praying for the best.
I think this is a good sign that we get at least a few more in the pack, right? I mean they kind of have to do that cause things like
Crested Sunmare
won't help, even though I expect to see it in the deck.

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Post by darrenhabib » 10 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
10 months ago
darrenhabib wrote:
10 months ago
Look like we are going to get Legendary creatures with..
2uu with hybrid {w/u} in the text.
2ww with hybrid {g/w} in the text.
2rr with hybrid {b/r} in the text.
While I agree with the colors, I'd be very surprised if they were all strictly 2MM. It's certainly possible, but we often see less strict cycles happen to get previews that coincide.
Looks like the 4 mana commanders are coming to fruition.

Emiel the Blessed is pretty powerful as a mana sink commander. If you think in terms of blinking out a Wood Elves the Forest comes into play untapped, so has a cascading effect of potentially being able to activate it again in the same turn.

As Hawk has already pointed out the combo ceiling on this card is very high.
Ashnod's Altar with Karmic Guide or Sun Titan or Reveillark is going to lead to busted plays.
Let's say its Wood Elves you are sacrificing. You can literally put all your Forest into play as long as the Forests come into play untapped.
You can spend 1 to get as many ETB of a creature as you want. Say Reclamation Sage or Eternal Witness.
Emiel the Blessed, Ashnod's Altar and Reveillark will go infinite with any two creatures (of power 2 or less).

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Post by Wallycaine » 10 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
10 months ago
Wallycaine wrote:
10 months ago
darrenhabib wrote:
10 months ago
Look like we are going to get Legendary creatures with..
2uu with hybrid {w/u} in the text.
2ww with hybrid {g/w} in the text.
2rr with hybrid {b/r} in the text.
While I agree with the colors, I'd be very surprised if they were all strictly 2MM. It's certainly possible, but we often see less strict cycles happen to get previews that coincide.
Looks like the 4 mana commanders are coming to fruition.

Emiel the Blessed is pretty powerful as a mana sink commander. If you think in terms of blinking out a Wood Elves the Forest comes into play untapped, so has a cascading effect of potentially being able to activate it again in the same turn.

As Hawk has already pointed out the combo ceiling on this card is very high.
Ashnod's Altar with Karmic Guide or Sun Titan or Reveillark is going to lead to busted plays.
Let's say its Wood Elves you are sacrificing. You can literally put all your Forest into play as long as the Forests come into play untapped.
You can spend 1 to get as many ETB of a creature as you want. Say Reclamation Sage or Eternal Witness.
Emiel the Blessed, Ashnod's Altar and Reveillark will go infinite with any two creatures (of power 2 or less).
Most of your Ashnod's Altar combos don't work? If you're sacrificing Wood Elves, it's not around to be blinked anymore.

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Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

He's talking about blinked reveillark/KG/sun Titan, using wood elves as sac/recur fodder.

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Post by darrenhabib » 10 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
10 months ago
Most of your Ashnod's Altar combos don't work? If you're sacrificing Wood Elves, it's not around to be blinked anymore.
Sacrificing the Wood Elves for 2, then blinking the Karmic Guide/Sun Titan/Reveillark to bring the Wood Elves back into play, which gets an untapped Forest. This means that you always have the 3 mana to activate Emiel the Blessed again.

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Post by Wallycaine » 10 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
10 months ago
He's talking about blinked reveillark/KG/sun Titan, using wood elves as sac/recur fodder.
Ahh, that could have been... much clearer.

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Post by Cyberium » 10 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
10 months ago
Wallycaine wrote:
10 months ago
Most of your Ashnod's Altar combos don't work? If you're sacrificing Wood Elves, it's not around to be blinked anymore.
Sacrificing the Wood Elves for 2, then blinking the Karmic Guide/Sun Titan/Reveillark to bring the Wood Elves back into play, which gets an untapped Forest. This means that you always have the 3 mana to activate Emiel the Blessed again.
I wonder why the blinking is entirely colorless. Surely they know how easily it could be abused.

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Post by 3drinks » 10 months ago

Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner is a fantastic aggressive commander.
Last edited by 3drinks 10 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

3drinks wrote:
10 months ago
Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner is a fantastic aggressive commander that thrives on a heavy mass mana denial strategy and I love it. Not enough to replace Kari Zev, but I wholeheartedly encourage everyone whom is sick of the blatant oversaturation of ramp strategies to explore this deck and rein those ramp strats back a degree or three.
I like her too, but how do you figure her as a "mass mana denial" commander? For starters, she doesn't have white so you have limited options for mana denial. Also she's a mana sink - potentially a pretty hungry one tbh - so denying mana is going to screw you over too. What would make her any better at mana denial than any other red commander? To me she looks more like a commander that enables a weenie deck to "get there" by refilling your hand and keeping them relevant on later turns by granting evasion. No mana denial required nor wanted.

This conversation is as old as time, but I really don't see how MLD is the "solution" to ramp. MLD doesn't specifically screw ramp, it screws anyone who isn't ahead on the board right now. It's also probably most potent WITH ramp - except artifact ramp instead of land ramp. It thrives off metas that aren't prepared for it - look at how often Rampant Growth is used compared to, say, Talisman of Impulse, even though they're pretty comparable and talisman is arguably better in a vacuum since it enters untapped - it's like comparing a painland to Evolving Wilds. The reason people play rampant growth is simply because MLD is generally not kosher while artifact destruction is. But if you make MLD kosher, it doesn't "solve ramp" it just motivates people to play more artifacts and creatures instead of land ramp, so they don't get blown all the way out by a single spell. As long as commander is a multiplayer format with 40 life, slower strategies are going to get a significant boost in power, and ramp is one of those strategies. You can complain about it if you want, but if you really hate playing against ramp then I don't think commander is a good format for you.

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Post by 3drinks » 10 months ago

[This post has been deleted at the request of the original user.]
Last edited by 3drinks 10 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by benjameenbear » 10 months ago

A legendary Unicorn with an awesome activated ability? What is this madness?! My wife will be extremely excited since she loves Horse creatures and identifies strongly as a Sagittarius sign.

Time to start brewing...

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 10 months ago

@3drinks

I don't think you get to decide which cows are sacred by virtue of being one of the minority of beefeaters in India. You sound like a cartoon supervillian sometimes.

"The masses are ignorant. I will... educate them. I will devastate their lands, suffocate them under the crumbling ruins of their own grotesque overdevelopment, the hideous burden borne of their collective lack of foresight. This suffering is neccessary... only the fires of hell can expiate the sins of the wicked and the defiant. Only then will balance be restored to the meta!"

^^^ See that? That's you, man.

Edit: removed quotes to reduce redundant forum bulk. I was only really talking to one person anyway.
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Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

3drinks wrote:
10 months ago
Boom//Bust, Ruination, 2moons, a host of Wildfire variants, Keldon Firebombers, and Impending Disaster. Then you've got less efficient but still strong-ish options like Tectonic Break and Scorched Earth. Then 2dwarves which also draw with the commander. You don't need w to play mana denial just because the most iconic MLD spell is w.
Yes...but....if you had access to white you'd have quite a few more options, which are stronger than most of the red options (at least far as outright destruction). Hence "limited". I didn't say "none".

BM is fine (though tbh I see so many basics in most games that I don't think they're terribly reliable) but that's no more effective here than literally any other mono-red commander.
Subira works in this strat because her overall curve can be kept lean enough such that MLD doesn't alter your course. She's, in this example, a one sided Edric.
An edric that requires mana to activate and (since red generally lacks evasion) usually wants mana to give creatures evasion as well.

Even ignoring that, edric isn't exactly over the moon about mana denial. What's the point of drawing a ton of cards if you can't play them? Drawing cards is generally best paired WITH ramp, so that you can exploit your large resources more quickly. Exploration is probably one the best cards in any Edric deck.

It really seems like you've got this hammer of MLD and everything (at least within R and/or W) looks like a nail.
Ideally you understand the significance of holding back lands in your hand that you don't need to push your game plan so that when you pull the rug from under others, you've still got your land drops to make.
That still means 2 turns until you can even activate her draw ability. Really not seeing this. I mean, you could do it, maybe it'd be OK, but it's definitely not the primary direction she pushes you to build in.
This works because the average commander player doesn't think about how their over commitment of lands will cripple them later because there's some asinine social contract that says lands are sacred cows (spoiler alert: they're not). Think back to how many times players you watch just untap and slam a land down. You punish them, and teach them a valuable lesson they remember.

How do I know? Because I play games where I don't see more than 5 lands and my plays aren't inhibited at all. When I don't disrupt, then the entire game is won by whomever got to a critical mass of mana to play their big dumb spell first, free and clear, because no one plays removal anymore (they're awful builders for that, but I digress). This strat plays on these greedy players by unraveling the very thread of their strat.
I concur with TheAmericanSpirit - you don't get to decide what is and isn't ok. If your group is fine with MLD then great for you, but if not, then you should probably try to work it out with them. If anyone who wants can unilaterally declare "X is now acceptable" then guess where you end up? cEDH is where you end up.

I also hate this "well you should hold back lands, then you won't get blown out by MLD" argument. No matter how hard you sandbag, you're still playing 1 per turn. If you're behind on board, there's a good chance you can't recover in time, even if you "played around it perfectly".

Given the choice between building resources to keep up with the table, or sandbagging lands in the offchance someone plays MLD, and from which you likely won't be able to win anyway...I'd say the better choice is probably to just play those lands in most cases. I don't think you get to feel superior because you've arbitrarily chosen some part of the social contract to ignore.

I don't know what your meta is like, I haven't been there. But the impression I get is that nobody else likes you playing MLD, you've decided that you get to play it anyway, and then you're calling everyone else a scrub for not playing around it. It sounds exactly like the guys that will bring a cEDH deck to a precon-tier fight, and then walk off feeling like they really owned those noobs. And whenever someone calls them on it, they say "well it's part of the game, isn't it?" Maybe that's not how it is - I hope that's not how it is - but that's the impression I get.

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Post by Guardman » 10 months ago

Sethron, Hurloon General looks like a really neat Minotaur Commander. One of the things I like is that he gives 2/3 for each Minotaur that enters the battlefield, plus can give minotaurs +1/+0, menace, and haste, the combination of which is pretty unique. Plus Minotaurs have a bunch of powerful lords and pretty unique creatures, I wonder/hope this is the lord that finally allows for a decent Minotaur tribal deck.

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Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

Well, Sethron, Hurloon General is definitely a card to make minotaur tribal work. Unlike the unicorn tbh, which just looks like combo city.

I do find it a little...idk...dumb, when they have a tribe that is, for all intents and purposes, not a functional tribe in commander, and then print a commander to single-handedly make them work by giving them such an insane bonus that even a garbage vanilla creature with that type is an auto-include in the deck. Gnarled Scarhide? That card is obviously garbage in commander. Oh, sethron exists? Ok, now he's totally viable. Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign is even worse...the best sphinxes are the changelings because the only thing that really matters is having that creature tag, and the changelings are the cheapest way to get it.

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Post by Serenade » 10 months ago

Is the Scarhide an aura [subtype Minotaur] if it is bestowed? Or is Minotaur a creature type only, so the bestowed aura is just a plain, ol' aura?

(Does Scarhide trigger Sethron if bestowed?)
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

Serenade wrote:
10 months ago
Is the Scarhide an aura [subtype Minotaur] if it is bestowed? Or is Minotaur a creature type only, so the bestowed aura is just a plain, ol' aura?

(Does Scarhide trigger Sethron if bestowed?)
From what I can see, the answer is no, since enchantments can't have creature types (unless they're also creatures or tribal). Although I'd imagine the number of times you'd want to bestow is likely fairly low anyway.

EDIT: ooh, inniaz, the gale force looks like fun. Definitely some shenanigans to be had.

It's starting to look suspiciously like we'll end up with 5 mono-color and 5 mono/hybrid legends. Though we only have a few cards left so who knows, maybe that's just wishful thinking.

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Post by Guardman » 10 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
10 months ago
EDIT: ooh, inniaz, the gale force looks like fun. Definitely some shenanigans to be had.
Inniaz, the Gale Force is my favorite type of commander. I.E. A Chaos commander. Though in her case, she is more of a controlled chaos, but still, put in the right cards and she can helm a brand new white / blue controlled chaos deck. Also Bronze Bombshell is fun with her, especially if you can replay it each turn.

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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

It's a pretty cool commander for sure. I like hybrid commanders a lot in general and this one has a really powerful ability that skirts targeting which is hugely powerful.

Enjoy my tokens :P

Ultimately though the power level of untargeted theft is pretty savage, and i think this'll wind up being a "you never get to attack or else we lose" effect :(

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Post by Mookie » 10 months ago

Inniaz, the Gale Force looks fun to play with, but less fun to play against. You getting to choose makes this card look pretty strong. Simultaneously, it makes seating order really matter, which slightly bugs me - this sort of effect usually has you choose a direction, instead of only being to the right. That's usually going to be the person that goes immediately before you, and I could see that being a miserable seat to be in - if you play something sweet on your turn, it's going to immediately be stolen by Inniaz if it's active. Hmm... Meanwhile, if you're sitting to the left, you're going to get a token or something else useless (or even worse, something negative like Illusions of Grandeur).

Muxus, Goblin Grandee sort of scares me, mostly because Goblin Recruiter is a card. But in general, this looks like a busted effect - cheating stuff into play is strong, and Muxus digs really deep. I also can't really think of any goblins with CMC 6+ that see play... other than other copies of Muxus, I guess, which may have had some Legacy implications. Still, seems like a reasonable goblin commander.

Emiel the Blessed looks like a very efficient flicker engine. I do sort of wish there were some unicorn/pegasus/horse cross-tribal synergies though - I doubt there are enough unicorns to fill out a deck. Not that the payoff is super strong here though - a few +1/+1 counters are fine, but not amazing. I guess Emiel works well with Kitchen Finks and other persist creatures though. Adding a mana cost does make Emiel a bit less of a combo machine, but the potential is still there, and being able to do both flickering and +1/+1 counter stuff opens up a few new avenues.

I actually like Brightmare a lot. ETB: tap a thing isn't that impressive, but the scaling lifegain looks pretty reasonable - tap down an opponent's fatty, gain a bunch of life. Probably more of a Cube card though.

Blessed Sanctuary also looks quite solid. I can't think of many other free token producers in white - pretty much just God-Eternal Oketra. Most of the other ones require a mana investment (ex: Sacred Mesa). Incidental protection from Blasphemous Act, Purphoros, God of the Forge, and other burn spells is also pretty nice. I'll probably try to give it a shot in Teysa.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 10 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
10 months ago
Well, Sethron, Hurloon General is definitely a card to make minotaur tribal work. Unlike the unicorn tbh, which just looks like combo city.

I do find it a little...idk...dumb, when they have a tribe that is, for all intents and purposes, not a functional tribe in commander, and then print a commander to single-handedly make them work by giving them such an insane bonus that even a garbage vanilla creature with that type is an auto-include in the deck. Gnarled Scarhide? That card is obviously garbage in commander. Oh, sethron exists? Ok, now he's totally viable. Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign is even worse...the best sphinxes are the changelings because the only thing that really matters is having that creature tag, and the changelings are the cheapest way to get it.
Is it really all that dumb though? In all seriousness, I think some of the best commanders make really obscure cards viable and gives them some purpose outside of rotting in bins. Sure, I dislike the immediate aftershock when wotc prints something that causes weird market skyrockets for previously valueless cards, but after that dust settles and those cards stabilize at $1-5, at least people have a reason to play them now.

I'm interested to hear why you think otherwise (besides the changeling thing, but isn't this stuff kinda the point of changelings too? To fill tribal holes?).

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Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
10 months ago
Is it really all that dumb though? In all seriousness, I think some of the best commanders make really obscure cards viable and gives them some purpose outside of rotting in bins. Sure, I dislike the immediate aftershock when wotc prints something that causes weird market skyrockets for previously valueless cards, but after that dust settles and those cards stabilize at $1-5, at least people have a reason to play them now.

I'm interested to hear why you think otherwise (besides the changeling thing, but isn't this stuff kinda the point of changelings too? To fill tribal holes?).
Good question, since I have talked up, for example, Feather, the Redeemed as a cool commander because she makes a bunch of cards viable that didn't used to be. For me, I think there are a few important differences.

-For feather, the effects matter. You aren't jamming any targeted spell into your deck, or even any targeted spell that targets your own creatures. The effect is very relevant. Sure, some stuff becomes pretty auto-includy, like all the 1-cmc cantrips, but even though that's the first thing that popped into a lot of our heads, that isn't necessarily super obvious to a new player. But once you get past the really obvious stuff, you have to think about whether you want efficient buffs, more value plays, protection, whether you just want to target feather or get more heroic creatures in the mix, etc. It's not simply "find all the creatures with this word on them".

-By the same token (but when playing as compared to deckbuilding), the cards feather enables are way more interesting imo. Stand Firm isn't the most exciting card ever, but when you're playing you have to decide whether you want to scry before or after your cantrips, where that pump is best used, whether casting a while spell opens you up to losing it if you're forced to give pro white for protection, how to scry, etc. There's a lot more going on than "well, I have my commander in play that makes minotaurs insane, so I'm going to cast as many minotaurs as I can."

Mostly I just find it kind of a lazy way to enable new cards. Feather is a pretty funky ability that surely took a lot of R&D time, relatively-speaking, to decide on that archetype and to think of the ideal way to enable it. Tribal is trivially easy, just pick a creature type that sucks balls, and make a card that says anything with that type gets some huge bonus. For the same reason, I don't find tribal decks very interesting to build, especially for commanders like this where the bonus is so insane. You need a really good reason to include anything that isn't a minotaur in the deck. So mostly you just go to scryfall and look up "show me all the minotaurs". Especially a tribe like minotaurs where virtually all the cards are terrible, you can practically sort of by cmc and pick the cheapest 40 or so. The deck practically builds itself. I can't respect any deck that's so on-rails to build.

And when you're playing it, it's a very off/on commander. If this guy gets priced off the board, I hope you like losing horribly because you'll be losing horribly. Granted, the same is true for Feather - and it can make feather less fun to play - but at least feather synergizes with cards that protect herself. And I'd much rather have a cheap cantrip than some random 2/1 minotaur. And she's easier to recast.

EDIT: Bruvac the Grandiloquent confuses me as far as what we're getting. So far we've got 3 blue commanders, but only one white and green one. Sucks to be those colors, I guess.

Actually I think we're done with new spoilers. So we've got the hybrid cycle, plus 4 mono-colored legends which don't split evenly around the pie. Weird.

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