Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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bobthefunny
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Post by bobthefunny » 1 year ago

LastConformist wrote:
1 year ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
I can cast Pendant of Prosperity and then use Aminatou [-1] exile ability to return it to my control immediately. Drawing 2 cards and putting 2 lands into play seems like a good rate, especially as Esper doesn't really have much land ramp.
Amulet enters the battlefield under an opponents control. Blinking it will let you change the opponent but you'll still have to pick one.

To get it back, you can either...
brooding saurian-type un-theft effect
steal artifact-type take it back yourself
mirage mirror-type it was yours all along
...maybe some other sillier ways, like put it into play face-down and then figure out a way to flip it face-up without it leaving the battlefield?

You might also just get it back if they're dead...I'm not 100% clear on the rules for control effects when a player leaves the game. I think you don't, but I'm not totally sure.
Aminatou, the Fateshifter explicitly says that the exiled card returns to the battlefield under your control, though. Do we know which would take precedence?
Yes. We do. Animatou is an ability, which since it exiles and returns a permanent tells you where it should go, since the owner and the controller might be different people. The amulet's ability is a replacement effect that affects how it enters the battlefield. So the Amulet's ability will act as a replacement to Animatou's activated ability.

If you blink the amulet, you will need to choose an opponent to give the amulet to.
614.1. Some continuous effects are replacement effects. Like prevention effects (see rule 615), replacement effects apply continuously as events happen—they aren't locked in ahead of time. Such effects watch for a particular event that would happen and completely or partially replace that event with a different event. They act like "shields" around whatever they're affecting.

614.1d Continuous effects that read "[This permanent] enters the battlefield . . ." or "[Objects] enter the battlefield . . ." are replacement effects.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
Would something like Jodah's Avenger work for giving Rayami double strike?
I don't believe that works as the card doesn't actually normally have that effect. It might be worth asking in the rulings section though but I don't think that works.
Rayami only looks at actual keyword abilities. Not for the creature to be able to "gain" the ability. She only looks for the exact ability of "Double Strike." Jodah's Avenger does not have the ability "Double Strike." (He has the ability to gain that ability, but that is irrelevant)

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Dockside Extortionist looks fantastic - I don't think it will be difficult to get five or six treasures from it, which is a very powerful ritual effect. Better if you can flicker it or have specific uses for a bunch of artifact tokens, but I'd certainly like to test it out in a few decks.

Ignite the Future looks sweet - I enjoy casting big spells for free. The base case of a better Act on Impulse isn't terrible - worse than Harmonize, but red has fewer options than blue or green, so may still be worth testing just for that. When you add in the flashback, it starts to look pretty attractive. And if you have ways to cast it from your graveyard for cheaper, it starts to look somewhat degenerate. I'll probably want to test it in Kess, Dissident Mage.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of Pramikon, Sky Rampart. Throw in some way to clone it and shut down attacking entirely. Alternatively, use it more fairly as a pillowfort card - make it so that your more aggressive neighbor can't attack you. There are a few red defender-matters cards (such as Vent Sentinel) that can make it preferable over Arcades, the Strategist, but I imagine the dragon is still going to be the better defender deck.

Backdraft Hellkite looks alright. I suspect the immediate value of Past in Flames will make it better in dedicated storm decks, but being able to do it repeatedly means you can get more value over time. Being a dragon is also an upside.

Empowered Generator looks a bit underwhelming if you don't have any synergies, but pretty interesting if you do. Voltaic Key, Clock of Omens, Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.... there are options.

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Hermes_
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

I wanna kick a rite of replication on Wall of Stolen Identity

Well,now I totally know which single( Pramikon, Sky Rampart ) I want to buy from this set and I can use it in my Zeddruu deck..either replace Zed with it or as one of the 99
Mookie wrote:
1 year ago

I'm not entirely sure what to make of Pramikon, Sky Rampart. Throw in some way to clone it and shut down attacking entirely.
Helm of the Host now I feel bad....
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 year ago
I wanna kick a rite of replication on Wall of Stolen Identity
That's gonna be pretty hard. You'd have to have a static buff so it doesn't die, cast it without copying anything, and then finally cast rite on it. Otherwise you'll just copy whatever the wall already copied.

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Hermes_
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 year ago
I wanna kick a rite of replication on Wall of Stolen Identity
That's gonna be pretty hard. You'd have to have a static buff so it doesn't die, cast it without copying anything, and then finally cast rite on it. Otherwise you'll just copy whatever the wall already copied.
*It as at this moment that Hermes learned he never fully understood the interactions*


EDIT:One of the players in our group has a coin flip deck and he feels personally attacked by mandate of peace
The Secret of Commander (EDH)
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 year ago
I wanna kick a rite of replication on Wall of Stolen Identity
That's gonna be pretty hard. You'd have to have a static buff so it doesn't die, cast it without copying anything, and then finally cast rite on it. Otherwise you'll just copy whatever the wall already copied.
In its natural state, Wall of Stolen Identity has the dubiously valuable unique properties of being the wall with the least toughness, and the only wall that doesn't have defender (ignoring changelings and similar abilities).

More seriously, it's a clone and a removal spell. I do suspect that a large number of clones are used to either copy your own creatures (in which case tapping the creature is a downside), or to copy big scary things like eldrazi (in which case the defender makes the clone less valuable). I suspect it's less useful overall than a normal clone, unless you specifically care about the defender tag (because you're playing Arcades, for example), or you're not planning to attack with it at all.

I am disappointed that the wall doesn't work very well with Stolen Identity though - defender makes cipher much worse. It does work if we make use of the fact that the wall doesn't have defender when it isn't copying anything though. Hmmm....

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I think I might be really into Elsha. It's like all the things I wish Narset was.

In response to your attack, I cast brainstorm, then flash in time wipe. Your move, sucka.

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Sanity_Eclipse
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

Road of Return - I know it was spoiled yesterday or last week or whenever, just nice to have the confirmed text in english. Both this and Regrowth are a good start for a recovery package, and just in Mono-. Me likey.

Backdraft Hellkite - Cool dragon, and I like the effect. It just seems a bit slow, or needing additional setup.

Ignite the Future - Really cool, definitely grabbing a copy or 2 as singles.

Thalia's Geistcaller - Solid little early / midrange creature.

Scroll of Fate - Don't think I touched on this one yet. Definitely grabbing a couple. I'm thinking one for Narset, for extraneous lands.

Wall of Stolen Identity - A cool take on the clone mechanic. Besides the whole wall thing, brings to mind the trope of a villain impersonating royalty whilst having the actual person imprisoned. :check:

Elsha of the Infinite - Guys and gals, and non-binary pals, I think I found my spellslinger general.

Pramikon, Sky Rampart - ...
...I would equally love and hate to see the minutes from the meeting where WOTC came up with this card. Oof.
- Lyra -

- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

- Lavinia X -
- Elenda -
- Yuriko -
- Jhoira-G - Saheeli -
-
- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
-
-
-
- Koma -
-
- Anafenza -
- Alela - Sen Triplets -
- Narset -
- Inalla -
- Sidisi -
-
- Kaalia-V -
-
- Xyris

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SocorroTortoise
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 1 year ago

Elsha of the Infinite is the most interesting general so far for me. An obviously powerful effect that's still very open ended in how it can be built around. I know I want to do something with it but have no idea what and that's a fun place to brew in.
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
Wall of Stolen Identity - A cool take on the clone mechanic. Besides the whole wall thing, brings to mind the trope of a villain impersonating royalty whilst having the actual person imprisoned. :check:
"M'lord, don't you think the prince is behaving a little...strangely?"
"How do you mean, Sir Norrington?"
"Well, he hasn't moved for several days..."
"He told me his legs were stiff from excessive horse-riding."
"...and he appears to be made out of brick and mortar."
"Ah. Hmm. Perhaps he has a spot of the dropsy."

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Sanity_Eclipse
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

SocorroTortoise wrote:
1 year ago
Elsha of the Infinite is the most interesting general so far for me. An obviously powerful effect that's still very open ended in how it can be built around. I know I want to do something with it but have no idea what and that's a fun place to brew in.
Hell yeah. Exactly where I'm at, I think. :check:
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
Wall of Stolen Identity - A cool take on the clone mechanic. Besides the whole wall thing, brings to mind the trope of a villain impersonating royalty whilst having the actual person imprisoned. :check:
"M'lord, don't you think the prince is behaving a little...strangely?"
"How do you mean, Sir Norrington?"
"Well, he hasn't moved for several days..."
"He told me his legs were stiff from excessive horse-riding."
"...and he appears to be made out of brick and mortar."
"Ah. Hmm. Perhaps he has a spot of the dropsy."
...Touche. Lol.
- Lyra -

- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

- Lavinia X -
- Elenda -
- Yuriko -
- Jhoira-G - Saheeli -
-
- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
-
-
-
- Koma -
-
- Anafenza -
- Alela - Sen Triplets -
- Narset -
- Inalla -
- Sidisi -
-
- Kaalia-V -
-
- Xyris

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

With DEN you can just avoid all attacks with Pramikon, yes? Until it's just one opponent?
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Serenade wrote:
1 year ago
With DEN you can just avoid all attacks with Pramikon, yes? Until it's just one opponent?
Only if you combo it with the ability to remember right from left.

(But yes)

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Marquis
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Post by Marquis » 1 year ago

SocorroTortoise wrote:
1 year ago
Elsha of the Infinite is the most interesting general so far for me. An obviously powerful effect that's still very open ended in how it can be built around. I know I want to do something with it but have no idea what and that's a fun place to brew in.
My fear is it's going to be come the next Narset, Enlightened Master Where the broken version of the deck is so strong, that she becomes a kill on sight commander and fair versions won't stand a chance.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I have a hard time imagining that will happen. For one, she doesn't cheat any costs, so I can't see her running away with the game in a hurry. Second, she's not hexproof so a well-aimed removal spell should take her out if she's proving troublesome.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Elsha of the Infinite goes, well, infinite alongside Sensei's Divining Top and a cost reducer, such as Etherium Sculptor. Draw your deck, trigger prowess a bunch of times, and figure out some way to win from there. Could be reasonably competitive.

I don't think Elsha will draw as much hate as Narset though. Future Sight is certainly a powerful effect, but it's also high-variance unless you have a lot of topdeck manipulation (and Elsha can't even play lands). Also no hexproof or other protection, no evasion, and no way to cheat on mana production (although flash does help with that, somewhat).

Something else that I think helps is that there are a lot of directions you can take Elsha - you could do Top combo, or Eggs... but you could also do other artifact nonsense, or enchantress, or build around the flash ability. Contrast with something like Narset, Enlightened Master (who can only cheat out big scary things), or Leovold, Emissary of Trest (who can only make your opponents miserable), or Prime Speaker Vannifar (who only cheats things out).

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Ertai Planeswalker
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Post by Ertai Planeswalker » 1 year ago

Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
I'm not entirely sure what to make of Pramikon, Sky Rampart. Throw in some way to clone it and shut down attacking entirely. Alternatively, use it more fairly as a pillowfort card - make it so that your more aggressive neighbor can't attack you. There are a few red defender-matters cards (such as Vent Sentinel) that can make it preferable over Arcades, the Strategist, but I imagine the dragon is still going to be the better defender deck.
I immediately thought of Superfriends. Protecting PW's from being attacked by the control player next to you is a lot easier then having the whole table try to get them. Also, having a Planeswallker deck and not having it be a typo amuses me way more then it should.

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Post by kraus911 » 1 year ago

I used to have a Ruhan spellslinging deck so I could do Soulfire Grand Master shenanigans and would wish for a more Soulfire Grand Master like commander. Bada bing bada boom! Elsha of the Infinite! Was also a great deck to play Swans of Bryn Argoll in along with fireball spells. I'm looking forward to this one!

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

Doomed Artisan creates sac pieces...that's it, right? You can't change their creature type for profit, and they can't even block. He just creates fodder, only once every go around the table, in white.

I guess it helps with Glare of Subdual and Warstorm Surge shenanigans.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Plus once the dude that craps them out goes away they gain the ability to partake in combat, or can be force-populated into the red zone by the face card. There are ways. Nevertheless, this is almost certainly more jank than good.
 
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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

Oh, duh. Right, that's the point: They get better...once he dies. Gosh, that is a flavor win.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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lyonhaert
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Post by lyonhaert » 1 year ago

To be blunt, I think Doomed Artisan is kindof a waste of cardboard and somebody's brain time.

[mention]Serenade[/mention]: Instead of changing their creature type, you'd have to do a text-change on each one with Artificial Evolution or New Blood so that it changes the creature type in the ability, too.
Rebuilding
r Zada Arcane Storm
rbu Marchesa
To-Build Pool
gwu Estrid
gwr Samut?
urb Kess
{r/w}{u/b} Akiri & Silas
bwr Alesha
r Neheb Dragons
g Nylea Wurm/Hydra
w Darien
u Tetsuko
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Jivanmukta
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Post by Jivanmukta » 1 year ago

lyonhaert wrote:
1 year ago
To be blunt, I think Doomed Artisan is kindof a waste of cardboard and somebody's brain time.
Interesting design is never a waste of time. I would take 100 artisans over one titan.
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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

So that's all the Naya commanders spoiled. Atla Palani, Nest Tender's got a bit of a Naya Jalira vibe going on, and I can get behind that. Marisi, Breaker of the Coil has a good thing going on as well, with the goad and whatnot. Makes me wanna bust out my Soltari Foot Soldier plus appropriate horsemanship friends, tickle everyone each combat and never get swung at. I can get behind these guys. Best batch of C19 legends yet.
 
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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 1 year ago

Jivanmukta wrote:
1 year ago
lyonhaert wrote:
1 year ago
To be blunt, I think Doomed Artisan is kindof a waste of cardboard and somebody's brain time.
Interesting design is never a waste of time. I would take 100 artisans over one titan.
At the very least, it's a well-costed Breeding Pit for an endless parade of fuel for Attrition and similar furnaces.

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