Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Airi
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Post by Airi » 1 year ago

Neyith of the Dire Hunt is gorgeous. :love: I adore Korvold, but I think he's about to get the axe so I have the lands for this.
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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

Look like we are going to get Legendary creatures with..
2uu with hybrid {w/u} in the text.
2ww with hybrid {g/w} in the text.
2rr with hybrid {b/r} in the text.

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Post by Wallycaine » 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
Look like we are going to get Legendary creatures with..
2uu with hybrid {w/u} in the text.
2ww with hybrid {g/w} in the text.
2rr with hybrid {b/r} in the text.
While I agree with the colors, I'd be very surprised if they were all strictly 2MM. It's certainly possible, but we often see less strict cycles happen to get previews that coincide.

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Hawk
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Post by Hawk » 1 year ago

People on Reddit are going gaga for Thriving Moor and its partners, and I...don't see it?

- Clearly, they are awesome in Cubes so that I do get.
- In a two-color EDH deck, these are just guildgates with extra steps, and that's bad.
- In tri-color decks, these take off a bit. I think they're still worse than trilands like Arcane Sanctum (obviously), and I also would generally rank them under Temple of Epiphany et al (although that's a lot closer). Where they are an upgrade is if your 3-color deck is currently running Gainlands like Tranquil Cove or guildgates or Vivid lands. They may also outstrip Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse if your deck has no landfall/sacrifice/graveyard synergy.
- Their value increases as we get to 4 or 5 color decks, for sure.

But overall, these are more like sidegrades to the worst lands you can be running in EDH, right? Or am I being to harsh?

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Post by WizardMN » 1 year ago

Hawk wrote:
1 year ago
People on Reddit are going gaga for Thriving Moor and its partners, and I...don't see it?

- Clearly, they are awesome in Cubes so that I do get.
- In a two-color EDH deck, these are just guildgates with extra steps, and that's bad.
- In tri-color decks, these take off a bit. I think they're still worse than trilands like Arcane Sanctum (obviously), and I also would generally rank them under Temple of Epiphany et al (although that's a lot closer). Where they are an upgrade is if your 3-color deck is currently running Gainlands like Tranquil Cove or guildgates or Vivid lands. They may also outstrip Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse if your deck has no landfall/sacrifice/graveyard synergy.
- Their value increases as we get to 4 or 5 color decks, for sure.

But overall, these are more like sidegrades to the worst lands you can be running in EDH, right? Or am I being to harsh?
I don't think you are. In Limited they are great and I wish they were in Core 2021 honestly (maybe they will add them to other sets?). But there are way too many 2 color options as it is so even on a budget they don't add a lot. As you said, 3+ colors likely get more mileage out of them though I agree than even with 3 colors they are dubious.

They look nice and have a cool effect but I would really hope they show up again for limited color fixing in the future.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

The trade-off for an always-CIPT land without types has to be outstanding. These do nothing for me.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

One neat thing is that they can generate mana outside your CI. If you have some sort of theft theme, for example. Like you could run the black one with Gonti, Lord of Luxury to activate off-color abilities of stuff you steal.

Still bad though for sure.

tinybones, trinket thief into Bottomless Pit seems like a strong T2/T3 play.

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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Jumpstart stuff looks interesting. I'm not really expecting to pick up any of the packs myself, but the semi-hybrid legends look interesting. Also some nice reprints - I'm going to hope to pick up a Reanimate.

Tinybones, Trinket Thief is adorable. Also looks extremely strong for a discard-based deck, like a miniature Geth's Grimoire.
Neyith of the Dire Hunt is a sweet fight club commander. Also interesting as a Lure effect in the command zone for stuff like Engulfing Slagwurm.
Kels, Fight Fixer is a sacrifice synergy commander in Dimir, which I don't believe we had before. It does slightly disappoint me that the payoff for all these legends is 'when you X, draw a card', which is a little repetitive. At least there's sufficient variance in X.
Thriving Moor and friends are fine. I don't think I'd ever run them in EDH, but they are arguably a 5-color land. Sort of like a janky Vivid land. I'm not a huge fan of Vivids primarily due to the counter being sort of annoying, and trading that for memory issues isn't really an upside for me. Might be usable if you have a budget 5c deck, but otherwise I'm unimpressed. May be interesting in cube though.

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Post by folding_music » 1 year ago

kinda looked at Kels and started searching my collection to see if I had a Yahenni, Undying Partisan and/or a Spinal Embrace :3 she might just be another "When you do thing you already wanted to do, draw a card" commander but she is a 4/3 for 4 with three strong advantages in a really strong colour pair

ps: it's amazing how many reprints Reanimate has and it's still over $10, at least on scryfall. I just happen to cherish my old battered copy from Tempest!

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Post by Hawk » 1 year ago

Tinybones, Trinket Thief seems great; great name and flavor (although don't think too hard on it), and a great commander for a underrepresented strategy in EDH. I suspect he ends up being better in the 99 of decks like Nekusar, the Mindrazer, Sygg, River Cutthroat, or Nath of the Gilt-Leaf but he may just support his own mono-black Discard/Rogues deck.

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but stapling "Draw a Card" to so many legends is getting tiresome. There are other ways to promote an ability other than card draw. I like drawing cards as much as the next person, but the phrase is so overused in the recent few sets and pre-cons.

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Post by CommanderMaster999 » 1 year ago

Witch of the Moors that's gonna be in so many edh decks forever staple in lifegain or aristocrat themed decks

The funniest trick is sacing a Gray Merchant of Asphodel after the lifegain you can just bring it back to your hand with the witch

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Post by Cyberium » 1 year ago

Thriving lands are nice. They work well in 3-color decks and you get to choose a color outside of your commander identity, something cards like Sen Triplets could profit from.

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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

i'm very confused...we just m21 spoilers...what the heck is jumpstart?

Also i wanna staple Trailblazer's Boots to Maelstrom Archangel

wish it was legendary
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Hawk
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Post by Hawk » 1 year ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 year ago
i'm very confused...we just m21 spoilers...what the heck is jumpstart?

Also i wanna staple Trailblazer's Boots to Maelstrom Archangel

wish it was legendary
JumpStart is a brand new experimental booster product - it's like UnSanctioned in its "mash up two mini-deck" scheme, but as a booster product instead of a box product. The design idea was "how can we make a limited product for players who love limited but hate spending an hour plus drafting and assembling decks?"

Each booster is 20 cards - 8ish lands, 11-12 business cards. The design is to grab two boosters, crack them, shuffle them, and then play. Boosters are themed - some are very straightforward themes like "Garruk" or "Cats", some are more abstract like "Doctor", "Hunter", "Rainbow". Boosters are not random, although some themes have multiple variations (e.g. there may be four different Goblin boosters with a similar ratio but different cards) and some themes do not (there's only one booster "layout" for Teferi, for instance, so any time you get a Teferi booster it will be the same 20 cards).

The set is released close to, but separate from, M21 (with some slight shipping delays now due to COVID, I think). Cards are only legal in their existing formats. It has 500 reprints and a smallish batch of 80 or so new cards designed just for it. New cards are, like Commander product cards, only legal in Legacy, Vintage, Commander, and the booster format itself.

You can read more here: Mothership Article

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Post by Krishnath » 1 year ago

Hawk wrote:
1 year ago
People on Reddit are going gaga for Thriving Moor and its partners, and I...don't see it?

- Clearly, they are awesome in Cubes so that I do get.
- In a two-color EDH deck, these are just guildgates with extra steps, and that's bad.
- In tri-color decks, these take off a bit. I think they're still worse than trilands like Arcane Sanctum (obviously), and I also would generally rank them under Temple of Epiphany et al (although that's a lot closer). Where they are an upgrade is if your 3-color deck is currently running Gainlands like Tranquil Cove or guildgates or Vivid lands. They may also outstrip Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse if your deck has no landfall/sacrifice/graveyard synergy.
- Their value increases as we get to 4 or 5 color decks, for sure.

But overall, these are more like sidegrades to the worst lands you can be running in EDH, right? Or am I being to harsh?
Mark my words, they're going to become staples in 3+ color decks, as they are a lot more flexible than gates and refuges. It doesn't matter which of them you draw, it'll still give you that crucial missing color.
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

The "problem" with Tinybones, Trinket Thief is that almost all effects that make opponents discard cards are literally at sorcery speed, meaning that its quite hard to benefit from getting multiple draws each turn.

However I went through and identified those that can;
Anvil of Bogardan, Chains of Mephistopheles, Discordant Dirge, Funeral Charm, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Gibbering Descent, Greel, Mind Raker, Memory Jar, Mindlash Sliver, Myojin of Night's Reach, Necrogen Mists, Nezumi Shortfang, Oppression, Painful Quandary, Possessed Portal, Putrefaction, Scroll of Griselbrand, Shrine of Limitless Power, Torment of Scarabs, Tsabo's Decree, Warped Devotion.

Infernal Kirin with Goryo's Vengeance, Hideous Laughter, Horobi's Whisper, Soulless Revival.
Liliana's Triumph with Liliana Planeswalker.

There are also a number of them that triggers on "die" like Mindslicer and Vindictive Lich.

I will say that having experience with Geth's Grimoire that you do experience a lot of opponents having discard components within their own decks more often than you might think.
Unfortunately wheel effects like Windfall, Wheel of Fortune, are not that effective with Tinybones, Trinket Thief as they can undo any work that you've invested already.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

Tinybones only triggers once each end step, even if multiple opponents discarded, correct? So you can draw one card max each turn?
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Post by Wallycaine » 1 year ago

Serenade wrote:
1 year ago
Tinybones only triggers once each end step, even if multiple opponents discarded, correct? So you can draw one card max each turn?
Correct. It doesn't matter who discarded the card, as long as it was an opponent, but multiple opponents don't draw multiple times.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

CommanderMaster999 wrote:
1 year ago
Witch of the Moors that's gonna be in so many edh decks forever staple in lifegain or aristocrat themed decks

The funniest trick is sacing a Gray Merchant of Asphodel after the lifegain you can just bring it back to your hand with the witch
I see your Gray Merchant and raise you a Soul Warden. 'When your opponents play a creature, they sacrifice a creature at end of turn'. Janky Lethal Vapors is perfectly fine.

Re: Jumpstart - I've also heard some conflicting things re: the cards also being legal in Historic, but it's not clear which are and which aren't (Reanimate is one obvious card that they probably don't want to be legal). I'll also add that it was designed in tandem with M21 - the intent was for a lot of overlap between the two, which resulted in stuff like the Cat and Dog tribal elements in M21, to support the corresponding Jumpstart boosters (which may not have had enough existing cards to fill out the packs).

On another note, Trusty Retriever is somewhat interesting. I've considered Trusty Packbeast for my Brago deck before, but haven't quite made the cut due to it being a little narrow. Not sure if the extra flexibility of hitting enchantments is worth the extra mana though. I guess it's a midground between Packbeast and Custodi Squire? Hmmm...

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Post by Dragoon » 1 year ago

Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
CommanderMaster999 wrote:
1 year ago
Witch of the Moors that's gonna be in so many edh decks forever staple in lifegain or aristocrat themed decks

The funniest trick is sacing a Gray Merchant of Asphodel after the lifegain you can just bring it back to your hand with the witch
I see your Gray Merchant and raise you a Soul Warden. 'When your opponents play a creature, they sacrifice a creature at end of turn'. Janky Lethal Vapors is perfectly fine.
Only if they played the creature at instant speed during your turn though. The Witch only triggers at your end step.
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Post by Wallycaine » 1 year ago

Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
CommanderMaster999 wrote:
1 year ago
Witch of the Moors that's gonna be in so many edh decks forever staple in lifegain or aristocrat themed decks

The funniest trick is sacing a Gray Merchant of Asphodel after the lifegain you can just bring it back to your hand with the witch
I see your Gray Merchant and raise you a Soul Warden. 'When your opponents play a creature, they sacrifice a creature at end of turn'. Janky Lethal Vapors is perfectly fine.

Re: Jumpstart - I've also heard some conflicting things re: the cards also being legal in Historic, but it's not clear which are and which aren't (Reanimate is one obvious card that they probably don't want to be legal). I'll also add that it was designed in tandem with M21 - the intent was for a lot of overlap between the two, which resulted in stuff like the Cat and Dog tribal elements in M21, to support the corresponding Jumpstart boosters (which may not have had enough existing cards to fill out the packs).
They have a list they're keeping updated of the 20 cards that won't be getting added to historic. So far, only 4 have been previewed (reanimate , Exhume, Scourge of Nel Toth, and Time to Feed), but more will get added as they get previewed. They're only going to be reprint cards that don't get moved over, and they'll get replaced with other reprints in the arena version. Not all are power level, some may be stuff that's weird to implement in arena.

Edit: meant to link the list - https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2020-06-17

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 1 year ago

PrimevalCommander wrote:
1 year ago
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but stapling "Draw a Card" to so many legends is getting tiresome. There are other ways to promote an ability other than card draw. I like drawing cards as much as the next person, but the phrase is so overused in the recent few sets and pre-cons.
Honestly i agree. Both Kels and (especially) Neyith feels really uninspired. Just tacking "draw a card" on everything is so lazy. I don't think they will be very popular.

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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

A few new interesting things in Jumpstart. I suspect that many of them are better cube cards, but still some fun stuff.

Ormos, Archive Keeper is an interesting twist on Laboratory Maniac that doesn't just end the game. Also a solid draw engine.
Scholar of the Lost Trove is one of the very few ways to cheat out an instant/sorcery, and definitely the only such way to do so as an ETB effect on a creature - the closest is Chancellor of the Spires hitting an opponent's graveyard. Also has some flexibility for reanimating artifacts too. 7 mana is a lot though. Hmmm... I could give it a shot in Kess to reanimate stuff like Cruel Ultimatum, or I could throw it in Sharuum as a second, well, Sharuum. I don't think there is enough redundancy to power a full Enter the Infinite reanimator deck though, nor is Scholar efficient enough to justify doing so (unless you're also reanimating Scholar, which feels needlessly complicated).
Archaeomender is Trusty Packbeast #2, in slightly different colors.
Lightning Phoenix is very cute, as another option for a recursive red creature.

...more importantly, a giant pile of spicy reprints. Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Rhystic Study, Exhume, Rise of the Dark Realms, Craterhoof Behemoth, Oracle of Mul Daya, Ulvenwald Hydra, Riptide Laboratory, Phyrexian Tower... I'm even happy about Aether Spellbomb showing up. I don't know if I'll ever play with the format myself - as an enfranchised player, I'm not really the target audience - but I'm definitely looking forwards to benefiting indirectly via reprints.

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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 1 year ago

Mookie wrote:
1 year ago

...more importantly, a giant pile of spicy reprints. Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Rhystic Study, Exhume, Rise of the Dark Realms, Craterhoof Behemoth, Oracle of Mul Daya, Ulvenwald Hydra, Riptide Laboratory, Phyrexian Tower... I'm even happy about Aether Spellbomb showing up. I don't know if I'll ever play with the format myself - as an enfranchised player, I'm not really the target audience - but I'm definitely looking forwards to benefiting indirectly via reprints.
They aren't lying about making this year for commander, though it also concerns me how many of the valuable/useful reprints are green in this format.

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