Unreleased and New Card Discussion

kraus911
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Post by kraus911 » 10 months ago

Terror of the Peaks can also be given deathtouch, which is harder with the enchantment versions.

rogerandover
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Post by rogerandover » 10 months ago

Looking forward adding Library Larcenist to Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive. Strict upgrade to many of the scroll thieves.

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Yatsufusa
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Post by Yatsufusa » 10 months ago

Guardman wrote:
10 months ago
umtiger wrote:
10 months ago
Yatsufusa wrote:
10 months ago
First the death trigger changes allows me to have a easier time to sac Ryusei, the Falling Star, recast and sac again for 40 as long as I had Repercussion and Furnace of Rath/Dictate of the Twin Gods without having to need Grim Lavamancer/Relic of Progenitus.

Now with Fiery Emancipation, I don't even need to recast, 45 to the dome as long as they all had a non-flying creature. Or I could just 117 Blasphemous Act per creature...
So how reliably are you getting that Repercussion each game? :laugh: You also played Gratuitous Violence?

I really like the damage tripler as well.
Well there is also the new Stuffy Doll, Brash Taunter and the OG Stuffy Doll Mogg Maniac, so I assume that it probably isn't that hard to assemble everything, especially now with so much redundacy for everything.
Actually, most of time I don't win with Repercussion anyway, I actually win with Heartless Hidetsugu more, turns out people pay less attention to Hidetsugu when he isn't in Command Zone full-view and people get way less irritated losing to Hidetsugu when they realized your Kamigawa-themed deck fully blinged with foil Kamigawa mountains has Ryusei, Hidetsugu and Kumano, Master Yamabushi in it (I've pinged people to death with Kumano before).

Hard-capped at those three because any more would destabilize the already pretty fragile deck. I tried Homura, Human Ascendant // Homura's Essence before, but he felt like a do-nothing in a burn-orientated deck. Some others, like Zo-Zu the Punisher would draw more hate (Hidetsugu tends to be immediate and Kumano less punishing) and makes the deck even more fragile.

Mogg Maniac isn't worth the extra effort to protect (I already run Pro-Red Swords to keep Repercussion from blasting myself, they're more of just-in-case with bonuses, I don't want to have to also run indestructible). I just don't like having to reset Stuffy Doll each time, again requiring other pieces in a fragile many-piece required deck. The new Brash Taunter though, seems to have everything built in enough for me to consider it, it's better redundancy for Repercussion, I didn't want to have redundancies which needed even more assembly to even function as a makeshift Repercussion, I'm better off just going off with Hidetsugu at that point. My LGS meta isn't that competitive, but it isn't that merciful to that many required parts either.

On other new cards, I'm considering Niambi, Esteemed Speaker for Yorion. It's far worse than Restoration Angel/Felidar Guardian for Yorion generally, mainly because it needs flash-enablers and 5 whole mana (eating into the mana rocks), but arguably if I wanted to cast end-of-turn shenanigans I needed a flash-enabler in the first place. I can foresee some games I have the mana but nothing I really want to cast, so it's a really expensive "Gain 5 life" spell... which could be a nice buffer protection of life since Yorion has the weakness of a sparse board.
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BeneTleilax
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Post by BeneTleilax » 10 months ago

oh hey cryptic command but more so.


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pokken
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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

That new Radha, Heart of Keld does not feel like a Radha card at all but it does feel like it's my spirit animal. Being able to apply a 2-turn voltron clock makes it a pretty compact wincon; you can pretty much just play 50 or even 60 lands. And not really needing to combo or overrun is super nice, just kill everyone else's creatures and voltron kill people, or even use Rogue's Passage or Kessig Wolf Run to apply trample and +0, etc.

Red having two different lands that give haste makes her able to kill out of nowhere too, which is pretty nice.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

I really dig ramp that's composed of (card that gives extra land drops) + (card that gives extra lands). So I dig that about new Radha.

I think of the two elements, though, it's the extra land drops that are harder to come by, so I think Mina and Denn, Wildborn are probably the better option in the CZ as far as ramp is concerned. Especially since Crucible of Worlds / Ramunap Excavator / Life from the Loam are all much more reliable at giving extra lands than Radha is.

She does hit pretty hard, but it's a 6 mana highly-telegraphed pump ability without evasion...meh.

I got really excited for Sublime Epiphany for a second, but unfortunately it's terrible for Phelddagrif. The most powerful ability is the copy, which is what's jacking up the cost, and Phelddagrif can't use it at all. Making the rest of the card a heavily overpriced Cryptic Command, which is already pushing the cost a bit as it is. For a deck that can abuse the copy it could be good, though.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

Interestingly I find extra land drops to be the easier effect than getting card advantage out of lands (particularly in RG) - even though there aren't that many good effects that give them many are tutorable. Radha, Heart of Keld is a turn faster as well - the sequence of Exploration into turn 2 radha play a 4th land off the top is likely to happen quite a lot.

You can also focus on trying to always get your land off the top and then use pseudo-land drop effects (Skyshroud Ranger, Burgeoning, et. al.) to keep your hand free of lands.

That's one of the things that The Gitrog Monster does really well is the card advantage, but he costs 5 which means the cards don't start flowing for a while unless you happen to have an explosive start.

You also get to cut cards like Oracle of Mul Daya and Courser of Kruphix which are not good enough when your commander lets you do it (4 mana for an extra land drop + reveal). You could probably even skip Crucible of Worlds and just stick to excavator and loam.

The ability to not have to reveal your top card is low key a large advantage. That from Courser and Oracle have both cost me games.

I will have to think hard on whether I want to build her but I do think in a lot of ways it'd be more fun to have my lands deck more color restricted than the RUG one I currently have.

--She also might be kinda cool with Countryside Crusher as another way to ensure you are always drawing gas, which most other lands generals are not. I dig that card.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

If you're using burgeoning et al to get lands out of hand, though, but radha is playing them off the top, then unless you're drawing additional cards you aren't going to get much value out of burgeoning. If you're in a state where your hand is free of lands, then you'd need to see land on top, play it, still land on top, draw it next turn, and then still have a third land on top to play with radha. I mean ofc that can happen, but compare to mina + crucible which is basically guaranteed 2 land drops every single turn.

cmc-wise it sorta depends on preference how big of an advantage 3 vs 4 is. You are in green, so you do have access to lots of mana dorks that can make 3cmc a big deal, but they also might be a bit counter to your land-ramp plan and leave you more wrath-vulnerable. If you're running more durable 2-mana ramp spells and/or rocks, then 4 cmc will come out on the same turn frequently, although ofc that does mean you have to dedicate slots to such things.

Agreed that not revealing is definitely a big plus. Although imo RG is probably the color combination that cares the least about it. If M&D is my commander, though, I'm probably prioritizing land recursion over topdeck land plays like courser and oracle. They're more reliable, and especially if I'm fetching multiple times per turn, topdecks are going to improve pretty quickly anyway. And I'm probably running quite a few mana sinks so I'm not bricked when I flood out.

No time to build that deck, though, I've still got another half-dozen to build from Ikoria XD

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 10 months ago

Radha, Heart of Keld is somewhat interesting. Definitely looks superior to Courser of Kruphix, assuming you have access to red and don't care about enchantments. Not revealing what you draw is a significant upside, as is the incidental ability to be a massive beater. I do appreciate the incidental lifegain from Courser, but not that highly. Meanwhile, losing the enchantment tag is a massive upside - Courser dies a lot to Bane of Progress and Austere Command effects, so dodging those is quite nice.

I don't think I would run it over Oracle of Mul Daya though - Oracle actually ramps, which means it fulfills more functions than just hitting more land drops. Especially relevant if you have a Crucible of Worlds effect going.

Sublime Epiphany looks fun, as an even more flexible Cryptic Command. Six mana is a lot, but adding a Clone to the card is a pretty spicy upside. Stifle is a bit narrow, but the option to choose between it and Counterspell isn't bad, and occasionally you'll want both to deal with an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger cast. But, again, six mana is a lot.

More fun reprints too. Kitesail Freebooter, Scavenging Ooze, and Palladium Myr all see play in various formats. Not necessarily EDH (although Scooze does), but I should probably throw Freebooter in my Cube...

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gilrad
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Post by gilrad » 10 months ago

The new Radha doesn't seem like something I would want to play as a commander, but in an "extra land drops" deck like Mina and Denn, Wildborn, you're going to want to have as many cards as possible in the 99 that can play lands from extra zones. Same goes for, say, Haldan, Avid Arcanist and Pako, Arcane Retriever decks; Radha doesn't directly interact with this commander pair, but she does work well with all the extra land drop cards that the deck wants to be running.

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UnfulfilledDesires
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Post by UnfulfilledDesires » 10 months ago

Radha, Heart of Keld doesn't excite me but seems solid for my Saskia the Unyielding legendary-matters deck. I especially appreciate how Radha triggers Winota, Joiner of Forces on curve.

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Post by Artaud » 10 months ago

Is it just me or Sublime Epiphany art resembles someone? ;)
beowulf_angelina.jpg

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Post by Serenade » 10 months ago

Experimental Overload is a fun take for the "uncommon dual-colored creature." You can't recur this Archaeomancer, but it does trigger sorcery/instant abilities (and is easier for blue to search for).
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vandertroll
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Post by vandertroll » 10 months ago

Oh I am building that shrines jank deck!

EDIT: 5C enchantress shrines here i come!
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Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

One of my favorite pet decks from Mirrodin/Kamigawa standard was 5C Honden Sunburst - Sakura-Tribe Elder, Pentad Prism, and Kodama's Reach did a marvelous job of allowing me to play all the shrines and I was also able to protect myself with Hinder and Mana Leak and get full value off of Clearwater Goblet and Etched Oracle. It was of course terrible in the age of Raffinity and Gifts, but a fun little FNM Deck.

I very much look forward to reinvorgating this in EDH now that we have effectively 12 shrines (one can never forget the secret 12th shrine of Paradox Haze :)). I have no idea who the Commander of this deck is, but I am pumped to try it out.

EDIT: Does anyone else feel like some of these might merit not going full shrine bonanza? For instance, I've long thought that Honden of Seeing Winds wasn't that far from playable outright, and now with Sanctum of Calm Waters we have the ability to stack them both in mono-blue (with Haze, if one wishes) to form a powerful draw engine. On the flipside, I don't feel any of the other Hondens were good enough alone, but Sanctum of Fruitful Harvest is a reasonable ramp card...maybe reasonable enough to also run Honden of Life's Web? I can especially see it in something like Bant or Naya-chantress decks. Exciting stuff for sure!

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Post by Toshi » 10 months ago

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Dear god, Ghostly Pilferer is absolute GAS for Lazav, the Multifarious!
Cheap CMC, discard outlet, evasion and a draw engine on top of it. Love it!

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Post by Wallycaine » 10 months ago

Hawk wrote:
10 months ago
One of my favorite pet decks from Mirrodin/Kamigawa standard was 5C Honden Sunburst - Sakura-Tribe Elder, Pentad Prism, and Kodama's Reach did a marvelous job of allowing me to play all the shrines and I was also able to protect myself with Hinder and Mana Leak and get full value off of Clearwater Goblet and Etched Oracle. It was of course terrible in the age of Raffinity and Gifts, but a fun little FNM Deck.

I very much look forward to reinvorgating this in EDH now that we have effectively 12 shrines (one can never forget the secret 12th shrine of Paradox Haze :)). I have no idea who the Commander of this deck is, but I am pumped to try it out.

EDIT: Does anyone else feel like some of these might merit not going full shrine bonanza? For instance, I've long thought that Honden of Seeing Winds wasn't that far from playable outright, and now with Sanctum of Calm Waters we have the ability to stack them both in mono-blue (with Haze, if one wishes) to form a powerful draw engine. On the flipside, I don't feel any of the other Hondens were good enough alone, but Sanctum of Fruitful Harvest is a reasonable ramp card...maybe reasonable enough to also run Honden of Life's Web? I can especially see it in something like Bant or Naya-chantress decks. Exciting stuff for sure!
These definitely push it closer to being reasonable to run a handful of shrines, though I'd probably want 2-3 colors worth before I start seriously considering them. But as you noted, an enchantress deck in particular can afford to run several of these as maybe slightly overcosted base cases, and hope to stumble into a second (or third). Green and Blue seem like the biggest winners out of this, with red and black both being valid options, if not as big of winners. White probably has the worst shrines for EDH, though it's possible I'm underestimating the utility of having a 1 drop shrine.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 10 months ago

I had what might well be my shortest-lived adventure with a deck yet - I built Golos shrines. I figured I may as well double down on the meme factor, and went Opalescence into de-legend clones to get even more copies of the shrines. Seemed funny on paper, so I tossed a list together and got a friend to test it. My very first flip yielded Nyxbloom Ancient and Mirrormade. Sprinkle in the Estrid's Invocation that was waiting in hand and my lands were tapping for twenty seven damned mana apiece the next turn. I did some Golos flips until I chanced upon Sisay, Weatherlight Captain, dug out all the shrines with her, then plopped down Opalescence, Helm of the Host, Paradox Haze... and realised I was just cramming a meme finish into a brutal mana flood. Like those wannabe amusing legacy decks that lock up shop with proper prison cards and then get cute with Tibalt or whatever.

I'd guess that Sisay may make for a more compelling shrine commander, but even then I imagine as you continue sinking your Seedborn Muse'd WUBRGs you're likely to be acutely aware of the purring engine.
 
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 10 months ago

New shrines look.... alright. Sanctum of All is a very potent payoff, while Sanctum of Calm Waters and Sanctum of Fruitful Harvest are also good payoffs if you have multiple shrines. I'm significantly less impressed by Sanctum of Shattered Heights and Sanctum of Tranquil Light. I'd say I generally favor the first cycle, but this cycle is also cheaper, and having a larger number of shrines, total, is definitely a power buff.

Ghostly Pilferer looks like an interesting combination of abilities. Discard outlet, draw engine (especially if you have a way to untap it repeatedly), and weak hate piece. Hard to say how often it will draw cards from opponents casting spells, but like Drannith Magistrate, it does trigger off commanders.

Barrin, Tolarian Archmage is a legendary Man-o'-War that understands what we really want to do with those effects: bounce our own creatures for vaaaalue. I may give him a shot in a few decks. Flicker effects like Ghostly Flicker are generally a better way to trigger ETB effects than bouncing + recasting, but Barrin looks really sweet with stuff like Gilded Drake.

Nine Lives is fun. Somewhat reminds me of black's Lich effects. I suspect that a normal game of EDH will have you take damage from various sources more than 9 times, so it's really bad against go-wide strategies that are attacking with 1/1s. On the other hand, if you have Solemnity or another way to remove counters, then there are some decks that can't really deal with it. Also good against infect / voltron decks. If you want to really abuse it, then throw it in Zedruu the Greathearted.

Experimental Overload is another interesting Archaeomancer variant. I think I prefer Archaeomancer due to its synergy with Ghostly Flicker, but having a big token isn't bad either.

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Post by Hermes_ » 10 months ago

Mookie wrote:
10 months ago


Nine Lives is fun. Somewhat reminds me of black's Lich effects. I suspect that a normal game of EDH will have you take damage from various sources more than 9 times, so it's really bad against go-wide strategies that are attacking with 1/1s. On the other hand, if you have Solemnity
Now I wanna rebuild my Solemnity pillow-fort deck.....

huh Kaervek, the Spiteful is a simple legendary that's not vanilla compared to the key word loving,word salad ones we've gotten in the past year.
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Myllior
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Post by Myllior » 10 months ago

Holy crap! SHRIIIIINES!!!

Slam dunking all of these into Sisay the moment I can get them, as well as the Paradox Haze I've been too lazy to grab. (Maybe Zur the Enchanter as well). Sanctum of Stone Fangs is the powerhouse of the cycle, providing a legitimate win con, although Sanctum of All is amazing as well; grabbing additional Shrines and turbo-charging them in one card is fantastic. Additionally, having access to Sanctum of Tranquil Light and Sanctum of Stone Fangs means I can now begin tutoring Shrines from the first Sisay activation, rather than needing to get her to 4 power first.

It's Shrines all the way down!

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Post by Wallycaine » 10 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
10 months ago
I'd guess that Sisay may make for a more compelling shrine commander, but even then I imagine as you continue sinking your Seedborn Muse'd WUBRGs you're likely to be acutely aware of the purring engine.
Sisay definitely seems like the better commander for that deck. Tutoring seems super important for a deck focused on getting as many cards out of a 11 card cycle, and since they're all legendary...

On the less popular ones: I think Sanctum of Shattered Heights is a really cool idea for a shrine deck, it's just dealing with a problem (multiple copies of your shrines) that EDH doesn't have. For a Standard or Historic deck, turning those extra copies into Shocks or Bolts (or better) is pretty solid.

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Post by WizardMN » 10 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
10 months ago
For a Standard or Historic deck, turning those extra copies into Shocks or Bolts (or better) is pretty solid.
Against creatures and Planeswalkers sure. Maybe they though hitting players would be too good but it is disappointing that you can't throw those Shrines at the opponent.

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