Unreleased and New Card Discussion

UnNamed1
Posts: 132
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by UnNamed1 » 10 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
10 months ago
UnNamed1 wrote:
10 months ago
Hermes_ wrote:
10 months ago
Chromatic Orrery looks interesting
I definitely want a copy. Spend 2 mana (essentially) to turn all your colorless mana into colored? Sounds busted.
Sounds like Prismatic Omen. A card that sucks.

(Obviously it's not quite as good an effect, but it also can be played much earlier and has some land-type synergies)

Not to say it's a bad card but I really doubt it's busted.

Teferi is interesting. Pretty weak small abilities though.
I mean Dryad of the Ilysian Grove is a P.O. on a creature and it is doing well for itself. The main power that I can see, is that Mana Vault/Crypt/Sol Ring/Grim/Basalt monolith now all tap for any color that you need. That is the power behind this rock, especially in casual lists. Probably not cEDH playable, but any deck that struggles with mana fixing, relies on a lot of colorless, can make great use of Chromatic Orrery.

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 1737
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

See the Truth...my first thought was "ooh, that's good for Kaho, Minamo Historian."

Gotta love the deep cuts.

User avatar
Serenade
UnderKing
Posts: 752
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Serenade » 10 months ago

How does it work with Kaho?
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 573
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
10 months ago
See the Truth...my first thought was "ooh, that's good for Kaho, Minamo Historian."

Gotta love the deep cuts.
Sadly Kaho grabs instants and this is a sorcery :(. I mean, the average Kaho deck is still running Jace, Vryn's Prodigy // Jace, Telepath Unbound, Torrential Gearhulk, Mission Briefing, and Snapcaster Mage to enable this but it doesn't work with Kaho himself.

This is much spicier for Kess, Dissident Mage, Elsha of the Infinite, Melek, Izzet Paragon, Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge, Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder, and Narset, Enlightened Master - I'm not sure how many of them are willing to run a worse Strategic Planning/Anticipate effect that is occasionally a Ancestral Recall but I'm sure they'll test it.

In other news - Elder Gargaroth is sure a card. Man that thing is stupid.

ilovesaprolings
Posts: 468
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by ilovesaprolings » 10 months ago

imagine if the gargaroth was a dinosaur...

User avatar
Crazy Monkey
Posts: 214
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: New Mexico, US

Post by Crazy Monkey » 10 months ago

See the Truth looks absolutely insane with Eye of the Storm and/or Possibility Storm in a spell-slinging deck. I'd drop Ponder for that potential upside in a slower meta.

EDIT: Village Rites is the new best instant sacrifice for card draw. It's a good enabler for decks like Rayami, First of the Fallen.
Last edited by Crazy Monkey 10 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | Primer: Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | Lavinia | Silumgar | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Kydele & Thrasios | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Gisela | Feather | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Vial & Ravos | Marchesa | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Genju | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Golos | Horde | Najeela | Traxos

umtiger
Posts: 310
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by umtiger » 10 months ago

Hawk wrote:
10 months ago
In other news - Elder Gargaroth is sure a card. Man that thing is stupid.
I'm not sure what you mean by "stupid" and I don't want to read into it. So my comment is separate.

Generating value by simply entering play is stupid. Requiring an action in order to generate that value is smart. I like the card a lot and the direction of the design. I will definitely try this one out in my type 4 stack.

User avatar
Mookie
Posts: 1607
Joined: 1 year ago
Answers: 20
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: the æthereal plane

Post by Mookie » 10 months ago

Village Rites intrigues me. I've tested Altar's Reap before, but haven't loved it. However, one mana is a pretty small investment. Hmmm...
Basri's Lieutenant looks strong for the Tayam, Luminous Enigma deck I've been contemplating. Goes infinite with Cathars' Crusade and similar effects, although you do need a sacrifice outlet.
Elder Gargaroth is a tasty pile of beef. Also pushes me ever-closer to wanting to turn my Samut, Voice of Dissent into something more beatdown-focused. Maybe I should just make a second build full of Flameblast Dragons? Hmmm...
See the Truth is definitely getting tested in Kess. My current build mostly relies on one-mana cantrips for card draw, but scaling that up a little isn't bad at all.

I'm also happy to see the Solemn Simulacrum reprint.

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 573
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

umtiger wrote:
10 months ago
Hawk wrote:
10 months ago
In other news - Elder Gargaroth is sure a card. Man that thing is stupid.
I'm not sure what you mean by "stupid" and I don't want to read into it. So my comment is separate.

Generating value by simply entering play is stupid. Requiring an action in order to generate that value is smart. I like the card a lot and the direction of the design. I will definitely try this one out in my type 4 stack.
The card boggles me from a perspective of Standard - in Commander it's merely fine. A 6/6 Trample, Vigilance, Reach for 5 is above-rate but not good enough alone which is why it has the abilities it does, and they are good - politically savvy, good value and versatility without being busted. I'd imagine this is Green's new favorite random 5-drop but it isn't even a snap-include, since decks run more off of synergy than raw brute power nowadays.

- This is obviously "Better" at face value than Thragtusk but good ol' swagtusk generates more immediate value and is better in a flicker deck or Yarok deck. In "random G fatties.dec" or "Beast tribal" I'll be running Gargaroth, but in a flicker deck it's still Thragtusk. A flicker deck in general probably wants more "Mulldrifter" (aka stuff like Deranged Hermit and Acidic Slime) and less "Baneslayer" (aka this).

- In "Counters matter" or "Hydra Tribal", one obviously still prefers Kalonian Hydra. "Tokens matter" is closer, but probably still prefers Tendershoot Dryad and Mycoloth.

It's good design, it's a perfectly fine card - just boggles my mind to see another set and another green mythic with a wall of pure value text to completely crush anyone playing aggressive strategies or other midrange strategies which feels like bad development/play design given the state of standard.

BeneTleilax
Posts: 603
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by BeneTleilax » 10 months ago

basri lieutenant breaks ghave

User avatar
Outcryqq
Posts: 325
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Indiana, USA

Post by Outcryqq » 10 months ago

Regarding Elder Gargaroth, I agree with most of what Hawk said; however, I'm not positive it will crush (I'm assuming you meant standard?) because it has neither haste nor hexproof.

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 573
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
10 months ago
basri lieutenant breaks ghave
Basri's Lieutenant breaks Ghave. Also news update - water is wet, sky is blue, Sol Ring is a good card :P . Ghave combos with "magic cards", generally speaking - but yes, card is quite good there. Also yet another card that is ridonkulous with Cathars' Crusade.

User avatar
Hermes_
Posts: 707
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Hermes_ » 10 months ago

it's Counters the PW Basri, Devoted Paladin
The Secret of Commander (EDH)
Sheldon-"The secret of this format is in not breaking it. "

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 1737
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

Serenade wrote:
10 months ago
How does it work with Kaho?
Uhhhh...you need to know some advanced magic techniques. Double-reverse state-based contraptions, that sort of thing. Wizards usually tries to keep it under wraps.

*smoke bomb*

angelic ascension might make the cut for Phelddagrif. 2 mana multi-type exile is solid. 4/4 flyer is a pretty significant stat line, though, especially for the 'grif.

User avatar
Sanity_Eclipse
Posts: 202
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 10 months ago

Elder Gargaroth.

A - Sounds like something from the Shadow of Mordor series.
B - is some tasty value.
C - As mentioned, is a lot of condensed, potential value but with a smarter trigger than ye olde P-Titties.

I want a couple copies (yes I do lean green as a mage, what makes you ask that? :grin:)

See the Truth - Yeah, I'll give it a shot in Narset over one of the weaker similar options.
- Lyra -

- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

- Lavinia X -
- Elenda -
- Yuriko -
- Jhoira-G - Saheeli -
-
- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
-
-
-
- Koma -
-
- Anafenza -
- Alela - Sen Triplets -
- Narset -
- Inalla -
- Sidisi -
-
- Kaalia-V -
-
- Xyris

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 2222
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 10 months ago

Hawk wrote:
10 months ago
BeneTleilax wrote:
10 months ago
basri lieutenant breaks ghave
Basri's Lieutenant breaks Ghave. Also news update - water is wet, sky is blue, Sol Ring is a good card :P . Ghave combos with "magic cards", generally speaking - but yes, card is quite good there. Also yet another card that is ridonkulous with Cathars' Crusade.
Yup, it's generally more astounding to find a card that Ghave doesn't break. I tried to build a non-combo Ghave at one point and failed, that guy is just gross.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 573
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
10 months ago
Serenade wrote:
10 months ago
How does it work with Kaho?
Uhhhh...you need to know some advanced magic techniques. Double-reverse state-based contraptions, that sort of thing. Wizards usually tries to keep it under wraps.

*smoke bomb*

angelic ascension might make the cut for Phelddagrif. 2 mana multi-type exile is solid. 4/4 flyer is a pretty significant stat line, though, especially for the 'grif.
Color me unconvinced on Ascension in Phelddagrif (as a fellow user of "Unconditional Win Draw-Godagrif) - I'd definitely have the deck's entire removal suite be 5 Swords and 10 Beast Withins if I could because the 3/3 is utterly irrelevant, but a 4/4 Flier is serious business that trades off with Phel (thus taxing us) or can even credibly drag us down in a knock-down, drag-out brawl that we fail to find Pulse for.

I do think Ascension is generally really good and is going to be jammed in most every Mono-white, Boros, Selesnya, and Naya deck from here on out - it's a neat little combat trick that can also be broken in case of emergency to kill a massive, game-ending threat, and it will be especially awesome in Ghired, Conclave Exile, Trostani, Selesnya's Voice, and Feather, the Redeemed as a very cheap source of Angels. But I also imagine that using it on your own dudes is going to be the default state and using it as removal the exception, in contrast to Swords, Rapid Hybridization, etc.
toctheyounger wrote:
10 months ago
Hawk wrote:
10 months ago
BeneTleilax wrote:
10 months ago
basri lieutenant breaks ghave
Basri's Lieutenant breaks Ghave. Also news update - water is wet, sky is blue, Sol Ring is a good card :P . Ghave combos with "magic cards", generally speaking - but yes, card is quite good there. Also yet another card that is ridonkulous with Cathars' Crusade.
Yup, it's generally more astounding to find a card that Ghave doesn't break. I tried to build a non-combo Ghave at one point and failed, that guy is just gross.
It'd be fun to see if we're finally at the point where your entire 99 (or, say, 62 non-land, non-Ghave cards) could be "broken with Ghave". I imagine it's super doable especially if we stretch the definition of "broken with Ghave" to include "generates a decent chunk of life/drain each turn" with Soul Sister effects :)

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 1737
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

Maybe I'm a bit thick, but I don't see how it's *that* great with Ghave. You remove some counters to make some 1/1s. You sac a 1/1 to put a counter on one of them. You sac that creature to get a 2/2 and return a counter....what have you achieved exactly? Since you're losing a counter and a creature to get a creature and a counter, you're not really "up", like you are with doubling season and co, except I guess you can transform a 1/1 token into a 2/2. If you don't sac the creature to ghave (i.e. you sac it to altar) then you're actually down in terms of total counters + tokens. Obviously if you've got other cards it could become a combo, but I think it's probably those other cards that are doing the heavy lifting. You're usually not motivated to sacrifice creatures that have counters on them (or put counters on creatures you're about to sacrifice).

I guess I'd want to see some specific combination that makes this good with Ghave, not just "it says counters and tokens so it MUST be good".

EDIT: hmm, I guess if you keep moving the counters around, you basically get 1: sac a creature make a creature, which generates a lot of value with any doubler. I'm still not convinced that it's anywhere near the strongest combo cards for the deck, though.

Hey, it does trigger off Ghave dying now, though. That's neat.
Hawk wrote:
10 months ago
Color me unconvinced on Ascension in Phelddagrif (as a fellow user of "Unconditional Win Draw-Godagrif) - I'd definitely have the deck's entire removal suite be 5 Swords and 10 Beast Withins if I could because the 3/3 is utterly irrelevant, but a 4/4 Flier is serious business that trades off with Phel (thus taxing us) or can even credibly drag us down in a knock-down, drag-out brawl that we fail to find Pulse for.
It is borderline for sure. There are a number of cards that reduce the impact, though - if you have one of the many lands that make Phelddy a 5/5 then he can win in combat, and if you have kor haven you don't need to worry about racing. Or it could just delay a necessary board wipe by killing a must-answer threat and replacing it with a "should probably answer eventually" threat. You could also use it offensively on a hippo token to help an ally.

The main means of deterrence are what they always were - don't make yourself the best target for attacks, and use Phelddagrif as a chump + bounce blocker to make it even worse.

If it's down to 1v1 and those aren't really options anymore, you've probably got enough mana to just replay Phelddagrif after trading him.

Like I said it's not perfect, and I certainly agree that stps + bws would be ideal, but I think it's at least a consideration for the deck. Hitting 2 important types, exiling, instant-speed, and costing 2 are all really good elements. If it had 1 less power it'd be pretty auto-includy.

kirkusjones
Posts: 51
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by kirkusjones » 10 months ago

Crazy Monkey wrote:
10 months ago
See the Truth looks absolutely insane with Eye of the Storm and/or Possibility Storm in a spell-slinging deck. I'd drop Ponder for that potential upside in a slower meta.

EDIT: Village Rites is the new best instant sacrifice for card draw. It's a good enabler for decks like Rayami, First of the Fallen.
See the Truth will be fun with Underworld Breach.

User avatar
gilrad
Posts: 99
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by gilrad » 10 months ago

Elder Gargaroth looks like part two of M21's mythic cycle that includes Baneslayer Angel. Similar to the old [card]inferno titan[\card] cycle, these guys all likely share similar traits:

- five CMC
- almost no removal protection
- rapidly creates an unwinnable situation for each turn it's not dealt with once it starts attacking (in 1v1 formats)

User avatar
Serenade
UnderKing
Posts: 752
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Serenade » 10 months ago

Massacre Wurm is probably another piece of that cycle.

Maybe blue gets Consecrated Sphinx. No clue about red.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

User avatar
darrenhabib
Posts: 1477
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by darrenhabib » 10 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
10 months ago
Serenade wrote:
10 months ago
How does it work with Kaho?
Uhhhh...you need to know some advanced magic techniques. Double-reverse state-based contraptions, that sort of thing. Wizards usually tries to keep it under wraps.

*smoke bomb*
Kaho uses Mystical Tutor/Vampiric Tutor/Insidious Dreams getting See the Truth.
You can then use Mission Briefing (from Kaho) on See the Truth for the full value.

Or you can use Mystical Tutor, etc, to get See the Truth, then can cast Violent Outburst/Bituminous Blast (from Kaho) in upkeep.

Or you can use Mystical Tutor, etc, to get See the Truth, then can cast a spell in upkeep, say Think Twice (from Kaho and now flashback) and then Spellshift (from Kaho) to cast See the Truth for full value.

Or you could Mystical Tutor, etc, to get See the Truth and then use Worldly Tutor/Eladamri's Call/Congregation at Dawn to get either Snapcaster Mage/Dralnu, Lich Lord/Goblin Dark-Dwellers/Izzet Chemister/Kess, Dissident Mage/Wildfire Devils/Living Lore/Magus of the Will/Vadrok, Apex of Thunder/Jace, Telepath Unbound/Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge.

Or you could Mystical Tutor, etc, to get See the Truth and then use Enlightened Tutor to get either Bösium Strip/Spellweaver Volute/Underworld Breach/Yawgmoth's Agenda.

You can also set up with cards that exile the top of your library and then use a Mystical Tutor, etc to put the See the Truth on top.
So for example Enlightened Tutor gets Precognition Field, or Eladamri's Call gets Abbot of Keral Keep.

Don't worry Kaho, Minamo Historian has you covered.

User avatar
Serenade
UnderKing
Posts: 752
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Serenade » 10 months ago

Ah, okay, you guys always see things I don't! =P
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

User avatar
Serenade
UnderKing
Posts: 752
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Serenade » 10 months ago

T1: swamp, Archdemon's Vessel
T2: swamp, Culling the Weak, Lurrus of the Dream-Den, Archdemon's Vessel, everyone boos a lot, Sol Ring

That's the dream I want to live one day. Will be much easier to get that 5/5 flyer in our format than a lot of others.

Also, Jolrael, Mwonvuli Recluse just bragging about green's card draw, WOW. She is an auto-include for my Multani, Maro-Sorcerer deck.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

User avatar
darrenhabib
Posts: 1477
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by darrenhabib » 10 months ago

Serenade wrote:
10 months ago
T1: swamp, Archdemon's Vessel
T2: swamp, Culling the Weak, Lurrus of the Dream-Den, Archdemon's Vessel, everyone boos a lot, Sol Ring

That's the dream I want to live one day. Will be much easier to get that 5/5 flyer in our format than a lot of others.

Also, Jolrael, Mwonvuli Recluse just bragging about green's card draw, WOW. She is an auto-include for my Multani, Maro-Sorcerer deck.
T1: Serra Ascendant .. go

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Commander”