Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[RedCheese]

Please film it if you crack it and destroy it.

[DirkGently]

Real talk, it's 100% going on ebay right? What is this thing going to go for? 10K? 100K? 1M?

[toctheyounger]

Man, screw you guys, that one copy of the one ring is %$#% genius. I love gambling, let's have us a gamble! I hope it's not in the first or second or third print run. I hope the chase goes on for years. I hope it becomes an accidental casualty of flip-it-or-rip-it and lives in infamy forever.

Oh man, I am gonna play so much flip-it-or-rip-it with this set! What a rush! The chance to destroy the one ring!

I hope you pull it just based on the possibility of ripping it. You got this my dude.

[toctheyounger]

Real talk, it's 100% going on ebay right? What is this thing going to go for? 10K? 100K? 1M?

Almost certainly. As for what it goes for, Post Malone paid, what, 180k for an artist print Lotus. I'd guess there's a possibility this could hit that level.

[NZB2323]

Indeed. I really like that food is returning, so flavorful.

Cons, I'm starting to get annoyed that we don't look to be getting a Ring equipment or a DFC Gandalf, but oh well.

Also, if one of you scallywags opens THE one ring, I will fight you. JK

Oh, and they confirmed, no planeswalkers in the set which surprised me.

We also saw that there will be A Riders of Rohan commander deck, and it is in Jeskai colors so, horsemanship is seeming really likely right about now, since they already mentioned having trouble with not enough cards that could have flying, so my guess is most of the cards in the set that would have flying (aka the blue cards), are represented as cavalry and have horsemanship instead. Hence the precon being Jeskai.

Super stoked about the Riders of a Rohan deck, but what about them is blue? They're landlocked, aren't known for knowledge, the theoretical, and logic, and don't have any flyers. How many Knight cards are blue?

While I don't know enough about LotR to give a definitive answer, blue is also the color of self-improvement for self-improvement sake. For example training to be strong enough to protect something is white, training to get strong enough to get what you want is black, training to be strong enough to be free is red, but training to be the best you can be is blue. For example, this is why Niko Aris is base blue, since he is all about self-improvement.

Yeah, I don't get that from them.

"To the King!" -White

"Now for wrath, for ruin, and a red dawn!" -Red

"Arise, arise, riders of Rohan!
Fell deeds awake, fire and slaughter!
Spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered!
A sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now, ride to Gondor!"

-White to save Gondor; Red for violence.

-Joyful as they kill - Red or Rakdos

"Éowyn, Éowyn! Éowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!" -Red or Rakdos

"Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!" -Red or Rakdos

"Women of this country learned long ago that those who don't wield a sword can still die by one." -White

What do you fear, lady?' he asked.

'A cage,' she said. - Red

"I want to be a healer, and love all things that grow and are not barren." -Selesnya

I mean, if the commander is Theoden I guess he uses logic, likes to hear from multiple perspectives before making a decision, and is about doing the best job he can.

[duducrash]

Shanid, Sleeper's Scourge and every 1-2 mv legend I can find, is it a viable strategy? Feels like many are coming from this set

[Serenade]

Add Mount Doom to your list! Not sure how many more lands are coming.

[Dunadain]

I think to suggest that a white British dude in his time wasn't on some level subconsciously racist is a bit naive.

I largely agree with everything both of you said, but come on, are you TRYING to feed into the alt-right's narrative XD

[DirkGently]

Firstly, yes, WotC (and Hasbro, of course) is yet another greedy, soulless, horrible corporation that cares only about profits. They have exactly zero interest in progressing real social change and are only including these characters and promoting inclusivity because it makes more money than the other option.

Not to re-derail the conversation, but I had a few things I wanted to add. While the corporation as a whole is indifferent to social progress, I'm sure many people within the company care deeply about representation. And because of that, I think part of the calculus behind these kinds of decisions is to keep those employees happy. If employees feel they're doing something meaningful, they'll be happier and more willing to accept other perhaps-less-progressive things (cough cough union busting) in stride. And of course there's controversy marketing, though I doubt this will make Fox News. Honestly that'd be %$#%$#% hilarious if it did.

"You and I all know Aragorn - the strong, white, ranger who whitely protects the hobbits from the thuggish ringwraiths, and who is whitely white. But now Wizards of the Coast is telling everyone that he's black? Do they think we'll just accept this? Do they think we don't have eyeballs?" *brows furrow intensely*

[toctheyounger]

"You and I all know Aragorn - the strong, white, ranger who whitely protects the hobbits from the thuggish ringwraiths, and who is whitely white. But now Wizards of the Coast is telling everyone that he's black? Do they think we'll just accept this? Do they think we don't have eyeballs?" *brows furrow intensely*

Look man, we're talking about a dude that was concerned about people being sexually aroused by a round colored piece of candy. Let's not tempt fate.

[DirkGently]

Look man, we're talking about a dude that was concerned about people being sexually aroused by a round colored piece of candy. Let's not tempt fate.

I love that I didn't need to say his name for you to know who I was imitating

[toctheyounger]

Look man, we're talking about a dude that was concerned about people being sexually aroused by a round colored piece of candy. Let's not tempt fate.

I love that I didn't need to say his name for you to know who I was imitating

I literally could see him saying the words you typed lol

[Mookie]

My main complaint re: Aragorn is that this version doesn't look like Viggo Mortensen, so my reaction when seeing the card for the first time was 'who is this guy?' Beyond that, I don't particularly mind one way or the other.... particularly given that there are so many alternate art versions of cards these days that identifying any card by art alone is an exercise in futility.

...I recognize that there are other versions of LotR, but I've watched the extended movie cuts enough times for those depictions to be my default mental models of the characters.

FWIW, Sauron, the Lidless Eye also doesn't really match my mental image. On the other hand, Frodo, Sauron's Bane, Samwise the Stouthearted, and Gollum, Patient Plotter all look pretty accurate. I would have an issue if the MTG cards were directly based on the actors themselves... but coming from the direction that the actors were picked based on how much they resembled the descriptions of the characters, I don't actually think I would mind that as much.

[folding_music]

(I think I'd have just called the Sauron card "Sauron", the Frodo card "Frodo Baggins", etc. maybe there's going to be multiples but down with that sort of thing as well.
been looking through Ice Age, which admittedly is a power nostalgia set for me, but a lot of the cards just have one word in their name and it overpowers me how well it works and how beautiful it is to leave some of that title bar space empty. in later sets every goon needs to be a "(Guild)(Role) (Nounified Verb)" and every special boy in the world has to have a comma and a title and it feels so pompous, really layed on thick not only how much they need the cards to COMPEL YOU but also how badly it works on me.

even for people who dodged LOTR, surely the cards surrounding the legends will explain their actions?)

I guess all I'm saying is I don't like the current presentation philosophy. it's probably precarious for them having to handle a fairly beloved property, TM, and are going overboard with due reverence

[DirkGently]

@folding_music well I'm sure part of it is to leave room for multiple versions of each character. If the card is just "Frodo Baggins" then that's kind of a one-and-done. At best it pushes the problem until the next set with the same characters, hence why all the legends legends, when they've reappeared, have to have some sort of lame title.

As far as this set in particular, I mean your regular dude who's seen the movies and maybe read the books but doesn't remember them super well (I am describing myself here), the limited format isn't going to resonate super well if he's playing with a bunch of characters he's never heard of. So they probably want to have some version of the major players at uncommon (as we've already seen from Gollum and Sam), but then also have a version at rare/mythic/precon to further sell the product to different customers (i.e. commander players) off the big names. Plus, if they only released one card per character, and your favorite character was, say, Sauron, and he's a weak and boring commander that doesn't interest you, then you aren't buying. Whereas if they print 8 different versions then they get more swings at the pinata (the pinata is your wallet).

I mean personally I do think the naming schemes get kinda repetitive and having one definitive version of each character would be aesthetically pleasing, but I think from a business point of view the way they're doing it probably makes sense.

[folding_music]

yeah, it makes sense on one level but I don't respect that level at all, giggle. I mean, I build edh decks and I don't wanna see nine versions of the same hobbit just so I've got more options, cos there's already enough options and my sense of what's enough and what's overbombing kicks in. like there might be a Samwise Gamgee community which *needs* an uncommon draft-like Sam, a pushed rare mother of runes Sam, an EDH-only Sam which makes a donkey token whenever you draw a card and a prescriptive 5c planeswalker-that-can-be-a-commander Supersam, and they can rock on, but I don't respect the business need to overcater to it one bit =P

[folding_music]

also REALLY not into The Shire being a legends-matter card when I see the hobbits participation in the fellowship as the everyman angle, it rings 100% wrooonnng
I know it's hell trying to adapt the story to a game with so many mechanical strictures but uh this card should say something totally different

edit: maybe it's a mechanical nod at Gandalf visiting the shire and getting the ball rolling?

[Dunadain]

On the topic of The One Ring, what are the odds it just stays sealed in some whale's warehouse? I've never really wondered about what proportion of magic products never get opened, but now I am.

[materpillar]

I'm highly suspicious that the one of a kind one ring is going to be randomly out into packs. There's like no way that isn't going into a specific pack to a specific store to be opened by a specific someone. Maybe not to someone specifically but to somewhere specifically that it'll be opened in the area where people will recognize it. I'd bet a pre-release box at a major store.

[Dunadain]

I'm highly suspicious that the one of a kind one ring is going to be randomly out into packs. There's like no way that isn't going into a specific pack to a specific store to be opened by a specific someone. Maybe not to someone specifically but to somewhere specifically that it'll be opened in the area where people will recognize it. I'd bet a pre-release box at a major store.

Don't play the lottery kids, it's rigged BEFORE the companies actually start rigging it, which they often do.

[duducrash]

So, the bad legendaries we've seen so far are starter kit decks. makes sense

maybe is my rotten woke brain but this sets looks amazing. WOTC makes some %$#% calls but their design is so good consistenly, Amazing.

[PrimevalCommander]

I sort of like The Shire. Good way to make a little artifact fodder with modest price. Tapping a creature is a definite cost, but it adds a self-sacrificing artifact in play, gains some life, can trigger various things. Probably look for one for my brothers Korvold, Fae-Cursed King deck to make some easy fodder if he runs out of things to sacrifice. Tapping summoning sick creatures lowers the overall opportunity cost. And can be activated at any time so blockers aren't affected.

[pokken]

also REALLY not into The Shire being a legends-matter card when I see the hobbits participation in the fellowship as the everyman angle

I think this is a misreading of the card; it's saying the Shire is slow unless Bilbo or Gandalf are there or something, maybe? I think it's mostly about Gandalf though.

[Dunadain]

Obviously there'll be more discussion in the pheldagriff thread, but I think The Shire will probably be playable there. There aren't any artifact synergies in the deck, but incremental life gain is something the deck actually wants.

and Reprieve deserves testing in most white decks that are sans-blue I imagine. I'm not really a fan of "gotcha" cards like Mana Tithe, Imp's Mischief, or Fork as "counterspells" in non-blue colors, if you can't run good counterspells, then don't run any counterspells is kind of my mentality, but Reprieve is significantly better than all the cards I just listed.

[Cyberium]

Reprieve is effectively a white Remand. I assume that has some implications, given that the set is going to be Modern-legal. At the very least, it's a nice addition to white's toolbox, which is currently pretty light on stack interaction. (also: Sunforger)

Preventing your own spell from being countered by blue player is also another nice side effect.

Do they ceremonially destroy the printer of The One Ring, like they did with the 1996 World Champion?