Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Hermes_
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

Venedrex wrote:
1 year ago

We also saw that there will be A Riders of Rohan commander deck, and it is in Jeskai colors so, horsemanship is seeming really likely right about now, since they already mentioned having trouble with not enough cards that could have flying, so my guess is most of the cards in the set that would have flying (aka the blue cards), are represented as cavalry and have horsemanship instead. Hence the precon being Jeskai.
If there's horsemanship, I will pre-order the deck as soon as I can
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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 1 year ago

Very tempted to converted Gyome into Sam and Frodo, Sam really looks good for food token.
Venedrex wrote:
1 year ago
Oh, and they confirmed, no planeswalkers in the set which surprised me.
Same especially after the art they showed off in the IGN article appears to be Gandolf the white card being planeswalker art proportioned

EDIT; maybe in the commander decks?
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
Reprieve is effectively a white Remand. I assume that has some implications, given that the set is going to be Modern-legal. At the very least, it's a nice addition to white's toolbox, which is currently pretty light on stack interaction. (also: Sunforger)
Better than remand I think, since it gets around uncounterables. Definitely one of the most significant cards we've seen so far.

Does anyone know if you need to have the ring in play to be tempted by it? I honestly hate that wording. WotC favoring cutesy wording over rules clarity is always :sick:
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Dirk nailed it on reprieve, beating uncounterables is a massive upgrade.

Man I don't know why but...I really thought I would hate universes beyond stuff, but so far I %$#% love LOTR, the FR stuff, and even the WH40k stuff. The only things that really turned me off were the walking dead cards.

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Post by Guardman » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
Dirk nailed it on reprieve, beating uncounterables is a massive upgrade.

Man I don't know why but...I really thought I would hate universes beyond stuff, but so far I %$#% love LOTR, the FR stuff, and even the WH40k stuff. The only things that really turned me off were the walking dead cards.
I am sort of in the same boat, but part of it is the Necron deck from WH40K has to be my favorite precon ever. It's just so much fun, the cards are well designed, and it gives a ton of support for a deck type that has had only a little support before while feeling very in color (i.e. black artifact creature decks).

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Post by folding_music » 1 year ago

not sure about this Tom Bombadil, his boots aren't looking yellow enough for my tastes

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
Dirk nailed it on reprieve, beating uncounterables is a massive upgrade.

Man I don't know why but...I really thought I would hate universes beyond stuff, but so far I %$#% love LOTR, the FR stuff, and even the WH40k stuff. The only things that really turned me off were the walking dead cards.
Walking dead cards were definitely the worst of everything. It had the hideous cross-promotion ghoulishness, terrible genre fit, awkwardness of living actors, horrible secret lair distribution model, unique mechanical designs to make them otherwise inaccessible, and of course based on a terrible property.

Personally I don't care that much about FR - the genre fit is good and it's barely a cross promotion. LOTR will probably be in a similar boat (though like Gandalf I am somewhat concerned about the power of the ring). 40K I'm much less a fan of, but I guess it's probably time to let that go.

Sauron, the Lidless Eye seems real mediocre tbh.
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Post by NZB2323 » 1 year ago

Venedrex wrote:
1 year ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
Well there's more spoilers incoming. Including Tom %$#% Bombadil.

Honestly flavor wise so far these look super good.
Indeed. I really like that food is returning, so flavorful.

Cons, I'm starting to get annoyed that we don't look to be getting a Ring equipment or a DFC Gandalf, but oh well.

Also, if one of you scallywags opens THE one ring, I will fight you. JK :rofl:

Oh, and they confirmed, no planeswalkers in the set which surprised me.

We also saw that there will be A Riders of Rohan commander deck, and it is in Jeskai colors so, horsemanship is seeming really likely right about now, since they already mentioned having trouble with not enough cards that could have flying, so my guess is most of the cards in the set that would have flying (aka the blue cards), are represented as cavalry and have horsemanship instead. Hence the precon being Jeskai.
Super stoked about the Riders of a Rohan deck, but what about them is blue? They're landlocked, aren't known for knowledge, the theoretical, and logic, and don't have any flyers. How many Knight cards are blue?

I think white, Boros, or Naya would make more sense.

And between Eagles, Fellbeasts, Bats, and Butterflys they'd have enough flying creatures.

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Post by Guardman » 1 year ago

NZB2323 wrote:
1 year ago
Venedrex wrote:
1 year ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
Well there's more spoilers incoming. Including Tom %$#% Bombadil.

Honestly flavor wise so far these look super good.
Indeed. I really like that food is returning, so flavorful.

Cons, I'm starting to get annoyed that we don't look to be getting a Ring equipment or a DFC Gandalf, but oh well.

Also, if one of you scallywags opens THE one ring, I will fight you. JK :rofl:

Oh, and they confirmed, no planeswalkers in the set which surprised me.

We also saw that there will be A Riders of Rohan commander deck, and it is in Jeskai colors so, horsemanship is seeming really likely right about now, since they already mentioned having trouble with not enough cards that could have flying, so my guess is most of the cards in the set that would have flying (aka the blue cards), are represented as cavalry and have horsemanship instead. Hence the precon being Jeskai.
Super stoked about the Riders of a Rohan deck, but what about them is blue? They're landlocked, aren't known for knowledge, the theoretical, and logic, and don't have any flyers. How many Knight cards are blue?
While I don't know enough about LotR to give a definitive answer, blue is also the color of self-improvement for self-improvement sake. For example training to be strong enough to protect something is white, training to get strong enough to get what you want is black, training to be strong enough to be free is red, but training to be the best you can be is blue. For example, this is why Niko Aris is base blue, since he is all about self-improvement.

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

NZB2323 wrote:
1 year ago
I think white, Boros, or Naya would make more sense.
That's where I sit too. Honestly I could even see Mardu over Jeskai.

Man, literally one ring. It's a cute gimmick, but let's be honest. To wotc it's a way to keep the hype train going.

The showcases are literally gorgeous though.
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Post by rogerandover » 1 year ago

Oh lord, Reprieve :love:

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

RedCheese wrote:
1 year ago
Cool cards and a flavor fail with the Aragorn + Arwen card.........
In what way?

Reprieve literally made my jaw drop.

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
RedCheese wrote:
1 year ago
Cool cards and a flavor fail with the Aragorn + Arwen card.........
In what way?

Reprieve literally made my jaw drop.
Yeah I don't see the flavor fail there either. Unless we're talking Aragorn's color, and look....let's just not go there. There's not no reason for the extra melanin, as a ranger he's seen a lot of sun and the men of Numenor were well colored in general. We don't need to go any deeper.

Otherwise, card does what Arwen and Aragorn should.
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

I'm 100% willing to give Cheese the benefit of the doubt, but given the already controversial nature of a particular decision, it raised an eyebrow.

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

I actually can't express how glad I am they actually printed Tom Bombadil. I understand why he wasn't in the movies, it would have been a massive departure from the tone of the film, and he is too outlandish and powerful for audiences to grasp how easily he forgets the ring altogether. But seeing him here is really cool. Card is a home run.

It also gives me heart that they might well do the canon justice; given we're in the 'everything should be legendary' arc of mtg, there's a good chance we see Glorfindel, the Witch-King, Shelob, The mouth of Sauron, the Dunadain, the Haradrim, hell, we might even see the Sackville-Bagginses! Honestly, if Bill the Pony makes it onto a card of his own, I'm getting one.

Not only that how many bona fide memes could actually be mtg canon at this point? I'm waiting for "They come in pints?", "What about Second Breakfast?", "Po-taytoes" and so many more. These I doubt, but man if they fully flesh this canon out, I will be genuinely stoked. It's looking really promising that they will.

Also I've said it elsewhere but Atraxa, Grand Unifier's battle text was printed so that there was precedent for battle cards in this set. Called it earlier, doubling down on it now. If we don't see the flight from Weathertop, The battle of the Pelennor Fields, the siege of Helm's Deep, the battle at the Black Gates and so forth they've missed an opportunity.
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

omg that full art black speech Ring
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Post by RedCheese » 1 year ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
RedCheese wrote:
1 year ago
Cool cards and a flavor fail with the Aragorn + Arwen card.........
In what way?

Reprieve literally made my jaw drop.
Yeah I don't see the flavor fail there either. Unless we're talking Aragorn's color, and look....let's just not go there. There's not no reason for the extra melanin, as a ranger he's seen a lot of sun and the men of Numenor were well colored in general. We don't need to go any deeper.

Otherwise, card does what Arwen and Aragorn should.
I'm a big fan of the Lord of Rings, so an adaptation that isn't respecting the depiction of certain characters kinda bothers me because theres no logical reason to change a character when breaks logic in world in how it was potrayed.

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

RedCheese wrote:
1 year ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago

In what way?

Reprieve literally made my jaw drop.
Yeah I don't see the flavor fail there either. Unless we're talking Aragorn's color, and look....let's just not go there. There's not no reason for the extra melanin, as a ranger he's seen a lot of sun and the men of Numenor were well colored in general. We don't need to go any deeper.

Otherwise, card does what Arwen and Aragorn should.
I'm a big fan of the Lord of Rings, so an adaptation that isn't respecting the depiction of certain characters kinda bothers me because theres no logical reason to change a character when breaks logic in world in how it was potrayed.
So playing devil's advocate a little here....I get it. I'm not about to shout it from the rooftops as a travesty, but here goes.

I'm a huge fan too. I will say I'm not about to bandstand about this, and I can totally look the other way. It's not that critical to me, I don't feel affronted on behalf of my fellow fans, and Tolkien's books will always be the only canon. Even the films, as truly amazing as they are to still be the best fantasy films on offer almost 30 years after their making, aren't a perfect depiction of the original story. And I'm from New Zealand, I'm real proud of that %$#%. We did a LotR honeymoon, my son went to Hobbiton for his first two birthdays (can recommend if you're a Tolkien nerd btw). We're all up in it.

I don't have issue with Aragorn being more highly tanned, or even black necessarily. Looking into it a little bit deeper as to why, though, it is a little stupid and more than a bit disingenuous. WotC basically decided that they wanted a more modern take on LotR and that's why he's black. That's it. If there were some sort of in story reasoning for it I'd be cool with that. But if they're going from source material he is described as pale.

Now, representation matters, I'm never going to say it doesn't. But to change it for no conceivable reason other than to seem more woke seems a bit arbitrary and virtue signally. Especially when Tolkien was vehemently not a racist person in any way: you gotta see the letter he wrote to the Nazi party when they approached him back in the day, he knew racism was a fallacy and wasn't afraid to tell them so. When it came to The Hobbit, he was at one point approached by someone who indicated to him that the dwarves as portrayed in the book showed traditionally semitic features and asked if that was intentional or derogatory. In an effort to both dispel anyone of the illusion that his writing could ever be conceived of as allegory or the man himself as even an incidental racist, he literally wrote Gimli, Son of Gloin as a valiant, gentle hearted warrior that bridged the schism between dwarf and elf and eschewed gold and riches over friendship.

It just seems a bit silly to make the story more woke, because it doesn't really need to be. Tolkien despised allegory, the story just is what it is. There's no racism, nothing to walk back. Anything you see in it you're bringing to the table, not JRR.

That said, I don't really truly care. The books are canon, I'm not racist, neither is Tolkien, Aragorn can be whatever color he likes, go off king. It's just a weird move for WotC to make. I'm more annoyed by that than the actual color of his skin.

That's all I'll say about it myself. I don't wanna get flagged for this, I don't want the trolls to come out of whatever woodworks might be about, I'm not gonna double down. I'm sure there's probably more canonical arguments to be made for him to be portrayed as pale too, but end of the day if this only pisses off the alt right racists they can die mad and I'd be just as happy either way.

I think if anything this just irks me as yet another way WotC is trying to feed us the line that they're a virtuous company that care about us when I don't think that's the case at all. One one hand they give us a black Aragorn, on the other hand they have whales chasing literally a single copy worldwide, ever, of The One Ring written in the Black Speech. The latter grosses me out as a consumer, the former just isn't quite canon. I'm alright with Aragorn, WotC gonna WotC.

Please forgive if any of this offends, I know race is a sensitive topic, and I'm pretty sure I've been as plain and polite as I can be about a touchy issue. If what's here upsets anyone please jump in my DM's for a full apology.
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
woke
virtue signally
woke
toc, you're one of the good ones. You're better than this.

That said, I have conflicting thoughts and feelings about the actual content of your post.

Firstly, yes, WotC (and Hasbro, of course) is yet another greedy, soulless, horrible corporation that cares only about profits. They have exactly zero interest in progressing real social change and are only including these characters and promoting inclusivity because it makes more money than the other option. That said, from a consequentialist perspective, I don't really care about the why and more so the results. As you say, inclusivity is an inherently good thing, and as long as it isn't blatant tokenism I'm fine with it.

Also, Tolkien was clearly not actively racist, but I think to suggest that a white British dude in his time wasn't on some level subconsciously racist is a bit naive. I don't think the dwarves being semi-stereotypes of semitic people is a coincidence, and while he should definitely be applauded for course correcting in LotR I think it proves my point. At the same time, judging historical figures by today's standards isn't always fair. Sure, slavery has pretty obviously always been awful, as well as racism and sexism, but holding him accountable for being influenced by the culture in which he lived isn't a winning proposition.

Finally, the above is ultimately irrelevant. It upsets chuds. This is the only rationale I need.

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
Finally, the above is ultimately irrelevant. It upsets chuds. This is the only rationale I need.
Yeah, I can totally agree on that. And apologies for all the buzzwords, they just fell out.

Honestly it's a weird scenario. I really, truly don't care if he's portrayed as black or white. It doesn't matter to me. If there's people out there that like to see it, great. If there's neckbeards out there that wanna get on a soapbox I truly hope they die mad with no resolution for their imagined slights.

It's more just gross that WotC is into performative representation than anything. It's not in the least surprising from a company that continues to disappoint from a moral and capitalist standpoint, but as I said, WotC gonna WotC. It doesn't surprise me, it doesn't really make sense, but ultimately it doesn't really matter. It's a take on Middle Earth and if there's people out there that love to see Aragorn colored, that's wonderful. It doesn't upset my head canon or my sensitivities, I think the card is decently fine and the artwork is really quite lovely.
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
And apologies for all the buzzwords, they just fell out.
It's all good. I was mostly joking, but I do tend to cringe whenever someone uses "woke" as a pejorative. Gotta keep each other accountable and all.
It's more just gross that WotC is into performative representation than anything. It's not in the least surprising from a company that continues to disappoint from a moral and capitalist standpoint, but as I said, WotC gonna WotC. It doesn't surprise me, it doesn't really make sense, but ultimately it doesn't really matter. It's a take on Middle Earth and if there's people out there that love to see Aragorn colored, that's wonderful. It doesn't upset my head canon or my sensitivities, I think the card is decently fine and the artwork is really quite lovely.
I agree 100%. I can't help but roll my eyes when pride month comes around and you see every corp's logo on Twitter turn into a pride flag while making campaign contributions to the GOP.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled spoilers!

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Lmao I'm just over here wishing they weren't such a mediocre boilerplate-selesyna commander XD
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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toctheyounger
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Lmao I'm just over here wishing they weren't such a mediocre boilerplate-selesyna commander XD
At 2wg I think it'd be pretty decent and very playable.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

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TheAmericanSpirit
Supreme Dumb Guy
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Location: IGMCULSL Papal Palace

Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

Man, screw you guys, that one copy of the one ring is %$#% genius. I love gambling, let's have us a gamble! I hope it's not in the first or second or third print run. I hope the chase goes on for years. I hope it becomes an accidental casualty of flip-it-or-rip-it and lives in infamy forever.

Oh man, I am gonna play so much flip-it-or-rip-it with this set! What a rush! The chance to destroy the one ring!
There's no biscuits and gravy in New Zealand.
(Except when DirkGently makes them!)

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DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4538
Joined: 4 years ago
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Lmao I'm just over here wishing they weren't such a mediocre boilerplate-selesyna commander XD
At 2wg I think it'd be pretty decent and very playable.
lol there's not too many cards that aren't interesting when you discount them by 2.
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
Man, screw you guys, that one copy of the one ring is %$#% genius. I love gambling, let's have us a gamble! I hope it's not in the first or second or third print run. I hope the chase goes on for years. I hope it becomes an accidental casualty of flip-it-or-rip-it and lives in infamy forever.

Oh man, I am gonna play so much flip-it-or-rip-it with this set! What a rush! The chance to destroy the one ring!
lol, I can't get too mad about the 1 ring thing simply because it's so ridiculous that I think very few people will actually buy packs on that hope. Honestly I'm glad there's only 1 because trying to remember the complete text of the card from memory would be pretty annoying. Cryptic Command|P09 all over again.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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