Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Dunadain
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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
@Dunadain reread outlaws merriment. You don't create 3 separate tokens, you create 1 token with all 3 sets of p/t/attributes.
oh, lmao
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Don't think anyone's mentioned Myra the Magnificent. Card seems...fairly insane? I can think of two main ways to abuse her, although both depend to some extent on which attractions are available.

1) Just cast a ton of cantripping 1-mana spells so you have 5 attractions active the turn after you cast her and generate a ton of value that way. Ofc this depends on having attractions in black border that are good, and you need at least 10 of them. That makes consistency hard, but considering you could have all 10 active 2 turns after casting her, maybe consistency isn't much of a problem after all.
2) Put a powerful instant/sorcery (cough time magic cough) on whatever attraction has the highest likelihood. So far I think the only ones with more than 1/3 likelihood get sacrificed, but you could intentionally fail whatever the objective is to keep them in play. Although for all those previewed so far with prizes - and given the nature of them, likely all the future ones - are non-legal. Stuff like Concession Stand, which is already pretty weak, only has the 1/3 chance so that's probably a signal that none of them will be higher than 1/3, but who knows. You could eventually create an infinite by stapling time magic onto attractions that cover the full range of dice rolls collectively, though that's a lot more ambitious. Time magic is already pretty synergistic with her, though, so it's kind a free roll.

So yeah idk, you either cast a bunch of 1-mana cantrips or you cast some time magic and win from boring your opponents to death. UR spellslinger always creates the most unique decks. :unamused:
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

Meet and Greet "Sisay" is the exact amount of open-ended RG treasure interaction I want.
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Post by Venedrex » 1 year ago

5colorsrainbow wrote:
1 year ago
Venedrex wrote:
1 year ago


To elaborate, Rosewater loves un-sets, but was annoyed not enough people were playing them, so the obvious solution is to force people to play against them in other formats. Rather than asking why people weren't playing un-sets, you just assume it's the border putting people off..
Considering Unstabled was one of the best side sets they did at the time, they didn't need to "make people play more".
Ahh, but that's what I mean. Un-sets were fine, and they just needed tighter designs, not changing the border color. They didn't need to "make people play more" you are exactly right. They wanted to change the border so more people would put these wacky cards in the most popular constructed format, so more people would chase the cards, so more people would buy packs. Ding ding ding.

That's the problem. This whole move wasn't made because it made logical sense from a game design standpoint, but because Wotc needs to double the revenue, triple the revenue, and every set needs to make more money that it ever did, so un-sets had to be changed to sell more packs. So yes, they didn't need to make people play more, they wanted people to pay more. If the set was so successful, why change the formula? Because every product needs to be even more successful and make even more money, and the only way to do that is to target it towards commander (and annoy legacy and vintage for good measure).

Commander is being harmed by the never ending greed that demands that every product must be for commander or usable in commander or designed for commander. Un-sets were fine when they stayed in their lane and served as break and a change from serious magic. But when you put them in regular magic, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of un-cards? They were meant to be things that would never be in normal magic games, if not because of mechanics, because of ridiculous flavor fails.

The problem is that Rosewater uses a buffet analogy every time, but he neglects to mention that there are some foods no one serves at a regular buffet. Imagine if you went down to a buffet and there were (animal) eyeballs in a big bucket staring back at you. Well, you don't have to eat them, but others will, and you sure have to see them all around the restaurant.

That's why most buffets don't serve eyeballs (Yes I'm sure some do), because it's not pleasant for most people. We can't opt out of the eyeballs if the restaurant chooses to serve them.. I'm glad some people like them, but those few people are going to negatively impact things for a lot of other people. Or durians, some people love them, but imagine they were in the restaurant. Half the people would be gagging, and rightfully so. Its just.. and here's the key word, un-nesseccary.

At the end of the day, it's not the end of the world or anything. But I would bet a whole lot of money this is a mistake, and we will just have to find out in the coming months and years whether it is or isn't.
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Post by Wallycaine » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Don't think anyone's mentioned Myra the Magnificent. Card seems...fairly insane? I can think of two main ways to abuse her, although both depend to some extent on which attractions are available.

1) Just cast a ton of cantripping 1-mana spells so you have 5 attractions active the turn after you cast her and generate a ton of value that way. Ofc this depends on having attractions in black border that are good, and you need at least 10 of them. That makes consistency hard, but considering you could have all 10 active 2 turns after casting her, maybe consistency isn't much of a problem after all.
2) Put a powerful instant/sorcery (cough time magic cough) on whatever attraction has the highest likelihood. So far I think the only ones with more than 1/3 likelihood get sacrificed, but you could intentionally fail whatever the objective is to keep them in play. Although for all those previewed so far with prizes - and given the nature of them, likely all the future ones - are non-legal. Stuff like Concession Stand, which is already pretty weak, only has the 1/3 chance so that's probably a signal that none of them will be higher than 1/3, but who knows. You could eventually create an infinite by stapling time magic onto attractions that cover the full range of dice rolls collectively, though that's a lot more ambitious. Time magic is already pretty synergistic with her, though, so it's kind a free roll.

So yeah idk, you either cast a bunch of 1-mana cantrips or you cast some time magic and win from boring your opponents to death. UR spellslinger always creates the most unique decks. :unamused:
So, the good news is that Fortune Teller represents a 1/2 chance to get your time magic out without having to bring any of the acorn games into it. The bad news for your "take infinite turns" plan is that 1's always fail to activate any attractions, so there's always a (presumably small, once the full setup is going) chance that you fizzle out.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

Hat Trick's flavor text tickles me pink! Best card of the set thus far 10/10.

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Get Your Head in the Game

Does anyone enjoy actually playing with these "the card only works if you're willing to endure constant low-grade discomfort" effects (see also skull saucer and Handy Dandy Clone Machine)? I feel like they're mildly funny for about 5 seconds and then I just wish they'd print a normal %$#%$#% card.
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Post by RxPhantom » 1 year ago

I'm gonna skip Unfinity too. Considering that this is just one product amid an onslaught coupled with how convoluted and complex many of these cards seem to be...it just doesn't look fun. Not even for an Un-set. WotC also knew that there were large portions of the audience for whom silver-bordered silliness doesn't resonate. But now, we MUST pay attention to them. It's exhausting. Product fatigue is exhausting. Spoiler season used to be exciting. It was fun to see all the new stuff coming our way and I never felt overwhelmed by it. Now, not so much.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

The un sets have never appealed to me in the slightest and I just ignore them. Not a fan of any of the cards being playable while I try to ignore them :P

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Post by kirkusjones » 1 year ago

Unfinity's going to be an easy pass for me, normally the lands would sucker me in, but the whole space theme just isn't doing it for me. Although I will need to pick up a copy of Comet, Stellar Pup for the cats and dogs deck I've been slowly building for the lady.

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Post by GuJiaXian » 1 year ago

How does Nearby Planet work in EDH? Can I slot him into Hazezon, Shaper of Sand as an extra desert, or does the fact that it's all basic land types mean it can only be used in a five-color deck?

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

GuJiaXian wrote:
1 year ago
How does Nearby Planet work in EDH? Can I slot him into Hazezon, Shaper of Sand as an extra desert, or does the fact that it's all basic land types mean it can only be used in a five-color deck?
I'm pretty sure the answer is no, as an island it inherently has T: add U (which is why Blood Moon doesn't have to say that the nonbasics now tap for R).

So it's only for 5 color decks I think (not that it's any good, don't think I'd even put it in a 5c Maze's End deck).

Of course, I could definitely be wrong.
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Post by Dragonlover » 1 year ago

GuJiaXian wrote:
1 year ago
How does Nearby Planet work in EDH? Can I slot him into Hazezon, Shaper of Sand as an extra desert, or does the fact that it's all basic land types mean it can only be used in a five-color deck?
I think you're good cause iirc the basic land rules go into reminder text now? I'm sure there's at least one printing if either shocks or triomes that does that.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Dragonlover wrote:
1 year ago
GuJiaXian wrote:
1 year ago
How does Nearby Planet work in EDH? Can I slot him into Hazezon, Shaper of Sand as an extra desert, or does the fact that it's all basic land types mean it can only be used in a five-color deck?
I think you're good cause iirc the basic land rules go into reminder text now? I'm sure there's at least one printing if either shocks or triomes that does that.

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If that was true, couldn't we play off color basics in every deck?
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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

Cards with no stamp, neither accorn nor normal are uncards or eternal cards?

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

duducrash wrote:
1 year ago
Cards with no stamp, neither accorn nor normal are uncards or eternal cards?
Eternal cards.
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

GuJiaXian wrote:
1 year ago
How does Nearby Planet work in EDH? Can I slot him into Hazezon, Shaper of Sand as an extra desert, or does the fact that it's all basic land types mean it can only be used in a five-color deck?
You don't have to concern yourself with this as it's an acorn card. When they first revealed the acorn technology, I expected myself to have some trouble picking this up quickly. Turns out I'm not the only one.

That said, if this wasn't an acorn card, it would have a 5 colour identity on account of the land types.
 
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Post by GuJiaXian » 1 year ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 year ago
GuJiaXian wrote:
1 year ago
How does Nearby Planet work in EDH? Can I slot him into Hazezon, Shaper of Sand as an extra desert, or does the fact that it's all basic land types mean it can only be used in a five-color deck?
You don't have to concern yourself with this as it's an acorn card. When they first revealed the acorn technology, I expected myself to have some trouble picking this up quickly. Turns out I'm not the only one.

That said, if this wasn't an acorn card, it would have a 5 colour identity on account of the land types.
That's what I suspected. Our group allows Un- cards, but I still want to play them as close to the rules as possible. Ah, well. Hazezon is sad today...

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Post by Dragonlover » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
Dragonlover wrote:
1 year ago
GuJiaXian wrote:
1 year ago
How does Nearby Planet work in EDH? Can I slot him into Hazezon, Shaper of Sand as an extra desert, or does the fact that it's all basic land types mean it can only be used in a five-color deck?
I think you're good cause iirc the basic land rules go into reminder text now? I'm sure there's at least one printing if either shocks or triomes that does that.

Dragonlover
If that was true, couldn't we play off color basics in every deck?
A valid point there. Ah well. Shame its acorn, would have been a laugh in wincons.

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Not 100% sure why Gallery of Legends (a) is acorn if Garth One-Eye isn't. Could be a power level thing.

Didn't take me long to find a solid way to break it. Just get a mv 4 card and choose Obeka, Brute Chronologist. Free legends for life!
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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Get Your Head in the Game

Does anyone enjoy actually playing with these "the card only works if you're willing to endure constant low-grade discomfort" effects (see also skull saucer and Handy Dandy Clone Machine)? I feel like they're mildly funny for about 5 seconds and then I just wish they'd print a normal %$#%$#% card.
I'd play them if they were any good... Maybe.

Like A Real Handful sounds fun, till you realize after jumping through all those hoops you get a 3/3 with menace and lifelink for 4 which is only ok.

Or take Toy Boat, it might be fun to flex how good I am at tongue twisters, but even if I never mess up, it's still not a very good card.
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Post by RxPhantom » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Get Your Head in the Game

Does anyone enjoy actually playing with these "the card only works if you're willing to endure constant low-grade discomfort" effects (see also skull saucer and Handy Dandy Clone Machine)? I feel like they're mildly funny for about 5 seconds and then I just wish they'd print a normal %$#%$#% card.
I'd play them if they were any good... Maybe.

Like A Real Handful sounds fun, till you realize after jumping through all those hoops you get a 3/3 with menace and lifelink for 4 which is only ok.

Or take Toy Boat, it might be fun to flex how good I am at tongue twisters, but even if I never mess up, it's still not a very good card.
I kinda wanna try Hot Fix some time.
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Post by Yatsufusa » 1 year ago

Stickers and Attractions are waaayyyy too tedious mechanics for my retired mind to handle in deckbuilding. Dice are technically already in black-border already, but I already largely avoided them because of RNG (Wyll's Reversal being an exception because even at its floor it's a fairly unique spell for mono R).

But I just want to talk about Vorthos, Steward of Myth. Even though I have handed in my Vorthos identity card, I'd point out I own exactly those M13 Bolas sleeves and that deckbox. I also own the that M13 Bolas icon Playmat. Ironically I've never really cared much for Bolas himself, but I still appreciate the simple iconology M13 went for that I got all those accessories (and put them into my Zombie deck, which was still Grixis then). Currently Grimgrin is using those sleeves (directly since it's still the zombie deck, just not Grixis anymore). I was certainly still a Vorthos back then, so I have an appreciation of the card I might actually just pick up the single just for old times' sake, even if it's an Acorn card.

I'm not building a deck around Vorthos, but contrary to the idea it tries to instill in you (pick a Legendary/Character and build a deck featuring all about it), in theory I would have it lead the deck (as it has 5C Color Identity), put blink/flicker effects as it's ability is an ETB trigger, then themed the deck around a storyline featuring multiple characters instead. It helps Vorthos is low-costed, so even removal is functionally just a delayed "blink".

In a loose concept (that I didn't spend more than 10 minutes pondering about) I might have built a deck around the original Kamigawa storyline, mainly the Hyozan reckoners (Toshiro Umezawa, Kiku, Night's Flower, Marrow-Gnawer and Hidetsugu). I would use Hidetsugu, Devouring Chaos instead of Heartless Hidetsugu because I'm already using the OG in an actual deck, and he's the only one of the four who's still around (and the newer card still reflects what he achieved millennia ago). Depending on mechanical space other characters featured (O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami, Keiga, the Tide Star, Myojin of Night's Reach and so on...) might even make that cut, but I'd probably have to leave out many of them if I want the deck to actually function (I mean I already need space for functions like ramp/draw/blink and I'm unlikely to find all the flavorful ones to fit in).
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Wallycaine
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Post by Wallycaine » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Not 100% sure why Gallery of Legends (a) is acorn if Garth One-Eye isn't. Could be a power level thing.

Didn't take me long to find a solid way to break it. Just get a mv 4 card and choose Obeka, Brute Chronologist. Free legends for life!
Beyond power level (which is probably a consideration), I think they internally have a bar for "how many cards does this require you to know/memorize", with "6" falling on the eternal side of things, and "every legendary printed" falling on the Acorn side.

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Dunadain
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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Wallycaine wrote:
1 year ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Not 100% sure why Gallery of Legends (a) is acorn if Garth One-Eye isn't. Could be a power level thing.

Didn't take me long to find a solid way to break it. Just get a mv 4 card and choose Obeka, Brute Chronologist. Free legends for life!
Beyond power level (which is probably a consideration), I think they internally have a bar for "how many cards does this require you to know/memorize", with "6" falling on the eternal side of things, and "every legendary printed" falling on the Acorn side.
Both of them feel like acorn cards to me.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

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