[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 month ago

Me: posts about magic decks becoming taco bell like in demolition man

Google: here are some ads for taco bell

(Sigh)

Also me: you know what sounds good is taco bell


On one level algorithms are too dumb to escape detection and the next level we are too dumb to resist our programming :P
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Post by Guardman » 1 month ago

pokken wrote:
1 month ago
Me: posts about magic decks becoming taco bell like in demolition man

Google: here are some ads for taco bell

(Sigh)

Also me: you know what sounds good is taco bell


On one level algorithms are too dumb to escape detection and the next level we are too dumb to resist our programming :P
Honestly, I find data collecting and advertising to be one of the scariest things in our modern world. I told the story before about how Target is able to determine whether someone is pregnant with a high degree of certainty just by subtle shifts in buying habits (like shifting from scented to unscented lotion). But I feel like it is good to repost it every once in a while.
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Guardman wrote:
10 months ago
Rumpy5897 wrote:
10 months ago
Heh, me reading the recent discourse in the thread has informed Big Brother that I'm in the market for a gaming PC and my Facebook ads are now crawling with PC building. Amusing. Still not as spooky as targeted ads for batteries popping up after I bought a pack of Duracells at the local supermarket without talking to anyone anywhere about my need for AAs, and paying for it via a physical plastic card.
If you want spooky, when I was in a Marketing class in college we did a case study where Target sent a 16-year old girl ads for diapers and other baby products. This, obviously, sent her father into a fury and he made a big deal about it and demanded an apology from Target, which they gave him and promised to change their algorithm (basically they won't be as blunt about it).

The funny thing (Not haha funny, unless you have my sense of humor. I'm dark like that. :love: ) is that it turned out she really was pregnant and from her subtle shift in buying habits, such as buying unscented hand lotion instead of scented, Target was able to figure this out. And in fact Target was extremely accurate (If I remember right, it was like around 80-90%) in telling when a woman was pregnant. This was way back in 2008, so it should be even better at predicting these things now.

As for Taco Bell, I haven't had it in years, but know I am seeing ads for it and now I crave the new thing they just brought back even though I've never had it before in my life. *sigh*

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Post by pokken » 1 month ago

Guardman wrote:
1 month ago
As for Taco Bell, I haven't had it in years, but know I am seeing ads for it and now I crave the new thing they just brought back even though I've never had it before in my life. *sigh*
I wonder sometimes how guys like BF Skinner would feel about how the modern world is basically defined by operant conditioning used en masse to control the population. And how much different the world could be if everyone had to take some psychology courses. It's disturbing to me how many people do not understand how variable rewards are used to condition us in every aspect of our lives these days.

I'm known as the guy who ruins MMOs for people with diatribes about variable rewards in my MTG community (also as the guy whose decks need to shuffle way too much, unrelated I'm sure).

Advertising being more of a classical conditioning I guess, but it feels like the changing menu and 'limited time offer' stuff also connects :P
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Post by Guardman » 1 month ago

pokken wrote:
1 month ago
Guardman wrote:
1 month ago
As for Taco Bell, I haven't had it in years, but know I am seeing ads for it and now I crave the new thing they just brought back even though I've never had it before in my life. *sigh*
I wonder sometimes how guys like BF Skinner would feel about how the modern world is basically defined by operant conditioning used en masse to control the population. And how much different the world could be if everyone had to take some psychology courses. It's disturbing to me how many people do not understand how variable rewards are used to condition us in every aspect of our lives these days.

I'm known as the guy who ruins MMOs for people with diatribes about variable rewards in my MTG community (also as the guy whose decks need to shuffle way too much, unrelated I'm sure).

Advertising being more of a classical conditioning I guess, but it feels like the changing menu and 'limited time offer' stuff also connects :P
One of the things I would like to see in this world is just less ads. Advertising is so pervasive that it has infiltrated almost every aspect of our lives that we ourselves are basically walking billboards. When I go outside I know I have at least three advertisements on me (New Balance shoes, Ralph Lauren Polo glasses, and probably either Tommy Hilfiger, Duluth Trading, or Crazy Shirts). My Jeans from American Eagle are non-descript enough and lacking any visible tags based on how I wear my clothes, so I am not including them. But if someone sees my shirt or shoes and likes how they look, it is very easy for them to know exactly what it is as they tell you oh you want to buy a pair of New Balance or oh you want to look on Crazy Shirts' website. These are the ads that really get me. It's also why I hate all the advertising in sports, from soccer kits, to little ads on NBA jerseys, to the numerous ads that literally line the rink and glass and ice in hockey. So much advertising isn't healthy for our brains.

And that doesn't even include those clickbait ads that are everywhere online. They are literally built in such a way to trick our brain into wanting to click on them.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 month ago

Yeah, there's no such thing as privacy anymore. I chatted with a friend about him buying some craft beer - boom, have craft beer ads. I pop open an incognito window and google some Magic stuff in UK sellers - boom, have ads for those sellers with the exact googled cards on display. The freakiest thing that ever happened to me was me going to the shop and buying batteries. I didn't tell anyone, via text or voice. Yet upon my return, boom, battery ads.

The algorithm is currently feeding me pictures of female-fronted metal bands, as around the time the bassist from Nightwish quit a friend commented on the guy's departure statement and I read it out of curiosity. It's a refreshing change of pace, as that's very much not in my wheelhouse and it kind of uncovered some of the logic of the machine. Unless it's doing it to lull me into a false sense of security... :P
 
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Post by pokken » 1 month ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 month ago
The freakiest thing that ever happened to me was me going to the shop and buying batteries. I didn't tell anyone, via text or voice. Yet upon my return, boom, battery ads.
I am fairly sure that one of two things are the source for this:

1. background microphone listening from phone
2. background geolocation data collection

But who the heck knows at this point. They all swear the phones don't listen to you but I've heard a bajillion anecdotes from people like this.
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 month ago

As mentioned, I didn't tell anyone. And I mean anyone - I walked in, did some shopping (including batteries, a rare purchase for me), self-checkout. The only way they could have known is if they somehow snooped on my card and linked it back to my online existence.
 
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
I've heard a lot of people complaining over the prices of computer components over the last year or so, particularly the exorbitant prices of graphics cards. But as I pointed out to a friend, the pandemic has wreaked havoc with the producers of computer parts's supply lines. They simply can't get the resources they need to make their products because of closed borders, lockdowns, and so on.
That's part of it,the other part is crypto mining. It's gotten so bad that the card makers are putting out updates to limit it. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56114508 and are even making cards that are dedicated to that use. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/cmp/
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
I've heard a lot of people complaining over the prices of computer components over the last year or so, particularly the exorbitant prices of graphics cards. But as I pointed out to a friend, the pandemic has wreaked havoc with the producers of computer parts's supply lines. They simply can't get the resources they need to make their products because of closed borders, lockdowns, and so on.
That's part of it,the other part is crypto mining. It's gotten so bad that the card makers are putting out updates to limit it. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56114508 and are even making cards that are dedicated to that use. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/cmp/
That as well. There is literally such a lack of graphic cards these days that even something like my three year old graphic cards costs severally hundred to around a thousand Euro. It is so difficult to get graphic cards that there is a 60 day waiting period in some shops, and they still can't guarantee they get one in during that period. It's insane.
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
I've heard a lot of people complaining over the prices of computer components over the last year or so, particularly the exorbitant prices of graphics cards. But as I pointed out to a friend, the pandemic has wreaked havoc with the producers of computer parts's supply lines. They simply can't get the resources they need to make their products because of closed borders, lockdowns, and so on.
That's part of it,the other part is crypto mining. It's gotten so bad that the card makers are putting out updates to limit it. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56114508 and are even making cards that are dedicated to that use. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/cmp/
That as well. There is literally such a lack of graphic cards these days that even something like my three year old graphic cards costs severally hundred to around a thousand Euro. It is so difficult to get graphic cards that there is a 60 day waiting period in some shops, and they still can't guarantee they get one in during that period. It's insane.
yeah,some folks are using bots to buy up inventory for resell.
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago


That's part of it,the other part is crypto mining. It's gotten so bad that the card makers are putting out updates to limit it. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56114508 and are even making cards that are dedicated to that use. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/cmp/
That as well. There is literally such a lack of graphic cards these days that even something like my three year old graphic cards costs severally hundred to around a thousand Euro. It is so difficult to get graphic cards that there is a 60 day waiting period in some shops, and they still can't guarantee they get one in during that period. It's insane.
yeah,some folks are using bots to buy up inventory for resell.
I don't think that is much of an issue over here in Sweden. When a mid-tier graphics card makes more than what the average person makes in a month, people buying them up to resell at a markup, when they are already marked up due to scarcity is unlikely.
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Post by pokken » 1 month ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 month ago
As mentioned, I didn't tell anyone. And I mean anyone - I walked in, did some shopping (including batteries, a rare purchase for me), self-checkout. The only way they could have known is if they somehow snooped on my card and linked it back to my online existence.
You were carrying your phone though, right? So it may have known you went to the battery store :P

But I would not put past them sneaking data from your card company tbh.
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Post by tstorm823 » 1 month ago

pokken wrote:
1 month ago
You were carrying your phone though, right? So it may have known you went to the battery store :P

But I would not put past them sneaking data from your card company tbh.
I went to Home Depot a couple years ago and looked at ceiling tiles with my parents for their kitchen. My only device with me in the same county was a 3G flip-phone from 2009, with any type of voice command disabled. It sat in my pocket closed the whole time. If technology can locate that phone, it's gotta be at least the radius of the entire store. There is no way to tell what we were looking at. It doesn't go online to transfer data from. I stubbornly refuse to tie the phone to any google accounts.

When I got back home after the weekend and got on my computer, I immediately got ads for ceiling tiles. My best guess as to how that might happen is that they managed to tie me to my parents house for the weekend and target my ads based on my mother's search history.
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

tstorm823 wrote:
1 month ago
pokken wrote:
1 month ago
You were carrying your phone though, right? So it may have known you went to the battery store :P

But I would not put past them sneaking data from your card company tbh.
I went to Home Depot a couple years ago and looked at ceiling tiles with my parents for their kitchen. My only device with me in the same county was a 3G flip-phone from 2009, with any type of voice command disabled. It sat in my pocket closed the whole time. If technology can locate that phone, it's gotta be at least the radius of the entire store. There is no way to tell what we were looking at. It doesn't go online to transfer data from. I stubbornly refuse to tie the phone to any google accounts.

When I got back home after the weekend and got on my computer, I immediately got ads for ceiling tiles. My best guess as to how that might happen is that they managed to tie me to my parents house for the weekend and target my ads based on my mother's search history.
Many of the larger mobile companies got into trouble in the EU a several years ago because they spied on people via the phones microphones. Regardless if they were in use or not, as long as the device was on, it spied on people. While most of them stopped, Apple in particular said they disabled it, but did not until they were threatened with an embargo in the EU. So, even if it shouldn't have been recorded because your hadn't tied it to any accounts and you had voice commands disabled, it is still very likely that it did. Even if it was just something as simple as the GPS in the phone combined with the visit, it could have been enough.
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago


That as well. There is literally such a lack of graphic cards these days that even something like my three year old graphic cards costs severally hundred to around a thousand Euro. It is so difficult to get graphic cards that there is a 60 day waiting period in some shops, and they still can't guarantee they get one in during that period. It's insane.
yeah,some folks are using bots to buy up inventory for resell.
I don't think that is much of an issue over here in Sweden. When a mid-tier graphics card makes more than what the average person makes in a month, people buying them up to resell at a markup, when they are already marked up due to scarcity is unlikely.
so,AMD's RX 6800 XT and RX 6800 launch tomorrow...and I bet with in the first 10 mins they are all sold out,mainly due to scalpers.
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
so,AMD's RX 6800 XT and RX 6800 launch tomorrow...and I bet with in the first 10 mins they are all sold out,mainly due to scalpers.
Eh, the retailers over here has implemented a rule that prevents a person from purchasing more than one Graphic card at a time from each retailer, and after that you can't buy another for 60-days. This is mostly due to people buying dozens of them during the bitcoin rush a couple of years ago.

Besides, not many people can afford to drop a months wages on a graphics card.
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
so,AMD's RX 6800 XT and RX 6800 launch tomorrow...and I bet with in the first 10 mins they are all sold out,mainly due to scalpers.
Eh, the retailers over here has implemented a rule that prevents a person from purchasing more than one Graphic card at a time from each retailer, and after that you can't buy another for 60-days. This is mostly due to people buying dozens of them during the bitcoin rush a couple of years ago.

Besides, not many people can afford to drop a months wages on a graphics card.
How do they keep track of that online to stop bots?
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
so,AMD's RX 6800 XT and RX 6800 launch tomorrow...and I bet with in the first 10 mins they are all sold out,mainly due to scalpers.
Eh, the retailers over here has implemented a rule that prevents a person from purchasing more than one Graphic card at a time from each retailer, and after that you can't buy another for 60-days. This is mostly due to people buying dozens of them during the bitcoin rush a couple of years ago.

Besides, not many people can afford to drop a months wages on a graphics card.
How do they keep track of that online to stop bots?
Well, see, there is this thing called credit cards that you need to shop online over here, and to prevent fraud and online theft, you also need a digital ID to identify yourself with when shopping online. 🤷
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Post by Dunharrow » 1 month ago

Magic Legends seems cool. I have never played an MMORPG but I suspect that if I had a PC I would try this out.
Maybe if I get this new job I could convince the wife to splurge a little.
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

Dunharrow wrote:
1 month ago
Magic Legends seems cool. I have never played an MMORPG but I suspect that if I had a PC I would try this out.
Maybe if I get this new job I could convince the wife to splurge a little.
If you are looking for an MMORPG, you are going to be disappointed. It's a DOTA clone.
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago

Eh, the retailers over here has implemented a rule that prevents a person from purchasing more than one Graphic card at a time from each retailer, and after that you can't buy another for 60-days. This is mostly due to people buying dozens of them during the bitcoin rush a couple of years ago.

Besides, not many people can afford to drop a months wages on a graphics card.
How do they keep track of that online to stop bots?
Well, see, there is this thing called credit cards that you need to shop online over here, and to prevent fraud and online theft, you also need a digital ID to identify yourself with when shopping online. 🤷
So say the last four of your CC is 5858,the computer system checks it against every other card that's been used that month and if it matches it,it says no you've already hit your limit?

What about international orders?
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago


How do they keep track of that online to stop bots?
Well, see, there is this thing called credit cards that you need to shop online over here, and to prevent fraud and online theft, you also need a digital ID to identify yourself with when shopping online. 🤷
So say the last four of your CC is 5858,the computer system checks it against every other card that's been used that month and if it matches it,it says no you've already hit your limit?

What about international orders?
No, the Digital ID is what prevents it. They are issued by banks and tied to your name and a bank account. And I really don't know about international orders, but since it is the same in the rest of Scandinavia, I would assume that unless you have some form of digital ID, you simply can't use the online shops that sell the computer parts. 🤷
I am really not that well versed in the system, but again, as I mentioned earlier, people in general don't have enough money to drop a months wages on a graphics card. There are after all bills to pay, food to buy, and such.
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago


Well, see, there is this thing called credit cards that you need to shop online over here, and to prevent fraud and online theft, you also need a digital ID to identify yourself with when shopping online. 🤷
So say the last four of your CC is 5858,the computer system checks it against every other card that's been used that month and if it matches it,it says no you've already hit your limit?

What about international orders?
No, the Digital ID is what prevents it. They are issued by banks and tied to your name and a bank account. And I really don't know about international orders, but since it is the same in the rest of Scandinavia, I would assume that unless you have some form of digital ID, you simply can't use the online shops that sell the computer parts. 🤷
I am really not that well versed in the system, but again, as I mentioned earlier, people in general don't have enough money to drop a months wages on a graphics card. There are after all bills to pay, food to buy, and such.
Oh,thats a pretty cool system/way to curb scalper bots. I just looked at newegg for the RX 6800 and it's sold out and amazon has sellers wanting 1K+ for it.Even the 3060 is going for double to triple the price on ebay at least here. So, I can't speak to your area,but here it's very doable to use bots to grab inventory.

https://www.engadget.com/newegg-scalper ... 41880.html

https://www.ntdaily.com/scalpers-are-ru ... -everyone/
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 1 month ago

It's been a headache trying to pick up a new graphics card. I'm interested in picking up an RTX 3080 and have been semi-regularly checking stores for at least a couple months now. I think there's been one time where they were even listed as in stock at a non-marked up price and they evaporated by the time I logged in to the site.
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Post by lyonhaert » 1 month ago

SocorroTortoise wrote:
1 month ago
It's been a headache trying to pick up a new graphics card. I'm interested in picking up an RTX 3080 and have been semi-regularly checking stores for at least a couple months now. I think there's been one time where they were even listed as in stock at a non-marked up price and they evaporated by the time I logged in to the site.
This is pretty much everybody's pain right now who is trying to build a PC. There are waitlists and raffles and whatnot, depending on the site and availability.
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