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Hermes_
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 month ago

I'm more interested in the fact that Hasbro has made WotC a full fledge division and what it could mean for the future of MTG.
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 month ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
I'm more interested in the fact that Hasbro has made WotC a full fledge division and what it could mean for the future of MTG.
Yeah, that is some real interesting news alright. Perhaps a little more freedom from the corporate overlords will give the game a better QoL.
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Post by Dunharrow » 1 month ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 month ago
Also, I'm gonna disagree with Smeagol/Gollum. I see him as bw. Sure, he's twisted, craven and desperate, but there is still good inside him, even if it is deep. Otherwise I'm all on board for your color representations here.
I guess I was thinking more of Gollum than Smeagol. Not sure why, lol. Gollum seems very B, maybe BR. Smeagol just wants friends and seems pretty WG. I wonder how they will tackle him. I doubt he will get a transform card though that would mechanically work best for him, I think. Gandalf the Grey/White, Annatar/Sauron, could be other candidates for DFCs so who knows.
toctheyounger wrote:
1 month ago
And on actually reading the article, Warhammer Commander decks are fine by me. I know little about the lore, so I have no skin in that game.

The article is pretty reticent in details re the LotR product, so I think it'll probably be something relatively unconvential. Perhaps some sort of standalone Archenemy product? It could work, but as per my previous post I don't think there's going to be the depth of lore I would crave as someone who adores the source. There's hints that it'll be a side product of some kind, so who knows?
I have now also read the article. As I said when Walking Dead came out - if they did a LotR product I am sure I would buy it. LotR is just too important to me. I love MtG and integrating LotR into it is just a dream for me.
That being said, The Walking Dead nailed the card designs. They were extremely accurate representations of the characters. I hope this product will get the same treatment - though if they are designed to function in a pre-con then gameplay may trump flavour. It scares me a bit.
We will have to wait and see. I hope they are easy to obtain. But more than anything, I just hope they don't butcher it. If you are going to cross IPs then they have to be careful not to offend fans of MtG or fans of these other IPs.

I also wonder if it will focus on LotR and the Hobbit, or the extended source material. I thought this would coincide with Amazon's first middle-earth series, which I think is supposed to be in the 2nd age (dumb idea imo, there is too little written about the 2nd age).

I am going to be thinking of this every day, damnit.
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 month ago

Dunharrow wrote:
1 month ago
I also wonder if it will focus on LotR and the Hobbit, or the extended source material. I thought this would coincide with Amazon's first middle-earth series, which I think is supposed to be in the 2nd age (dumb idea imo, there is too little written about the 2nd age).
They've done this to get Sauron's backstory and still tie it in to the rings. I guess it's hard to introduce a whole different set of characters and have people wonder 'the Silmarils are good and all but where's the ring?' Clearly, I'm referring to folk who haven't read outside of the trilogy. I think it'll be fine, but probably not as spectacular as the films. Those are now 20 years old, and still the best fantasy ever filmed.

I too just hope they get it right. Given how much content there is they probably won't tackle all of it. I can see a standalone product as like a 'destroy the ring' campaign somehow. I dunno. There's a lot of details to get right, though, and LotR fans tend to be fairly nitpicky.

I'm hoping Arwen doesn't get hyped, either. If she gets a card at all, it should be the next Storm Crow. She got way too much screen time in the movies and I'm still salty.
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Post by Dunharrow » 1 month ago

Arwen willbget a card. Too few female characters. That being said I hope Glorfindel is in it.

Good question came up. Will hobbits be kithkin?
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 month ago

Dunharrow wrote:
1 month ago
Arwen willbget a card. Too few female characters. That being said I hope Glorfindel is in it.

Good question came up. Will hobbits be kithkin?
No, from what's been said thus far it will be distinct from MtG lore.
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 month ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 month ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
I'm more interested in the fact that Hasbro has made WotC a full fledge division and what it could mean for the future of MTG.
Yeah, that is some real interesting news alright. Perhaps a little more freedom from the corporate overlords will give the game a better QoL.
Some folks ( that being r/mtgfinance ) are wondering if it will impact the RL
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 month ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 month ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
I'm more interested in the fact that Hasbro has made WotC a full fledge division and what it could mean for the future of MTG.
Yeah, that is some real interesting news alright. Perhaps a little more freedom from the corporate overlords will give the game a better QoL.
Some folks ( that being r/mtgfinance ) are wondering if it will impact the RL
That's their general state of being though, right? Wonder if any changes to the game can be taken advantage of for monetary purposes?

Honestly it would be nice if the chains on the RL dropped, and it's possible it will, but I can't see it anytime soon.
Last edited by toctheyounger 1 month ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Lifeless » 1 month ago

I can't really explain why but I absolutely hate the idea of MtG becoming a cross-IP marketing tool. I'm sure some of what they make will be cool and I'll be inclined to get it if it works with my EDH decks but I'm not a fan at all.

On the other hand I'm absolutely all-in for anything that might have impact on the reserve list, so that would be great. It needs to die yesterday.

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Post by Dunharrow » 1 month ago

They have no reason to touch the reserved list. People can play on mtgo.
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Post by bobthefunny » 1 month ago

RxPhantom wrote:
1 month ago
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Post by pokken » 1 month ago

Lifeless wrote:
1 month ago
I can't really explain why but I absolutely hate the idea of MtG becoming a cross-IP marketing tool.
So I think this is exactly the opposite of what is happening.

Magic is using LOTR, TWD, etc. as a marketing tool to suck people into Magic.

Much like when people put Snoopy on string cheese, they're marketing string cheese not Snoopy.

At least, that's how I read it. They're trying to lure Snoopy likers into eating cheese, and LOTR fans into playing Magic.

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 month ago

pokken wrote:
1 month ago
Lifeless wrote:
1 month ago
I can't really explain why but I absolutely hate the idea of MtG becoming a cross-IP marketing tool.
So I think this is exactly the opposite of what is happening.

Magic is using LOTR, TWD, etc. as a marketing tool to suck people into Magic.

Much like when people put Snoopy on string cheese, they're marketing string cheese not Snoopy.

At least, that's how I read it. They're trying to lure Snoopy likers into eating cheese, and LOTR fans into playing Magic.
Yeah I agree, that isn't what this is. They've been a lot more delicate with this play than they were with TWD, to the point where it's not really a fair comparison. It seems like they're trying to make these somewhat of stand-alone products that aren't MtG canon per se, while still being legal outside of standard.

For me, at least, I'm glad it's at least a trope that would have a stronger blend on a venn diagram than TWD. I would hazard that LotR fans are already pretty well versed with MtG or at least know of it.

No idea re Warhammer. Not my jam so not my business.
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Post by materpillar » 1 month ago

I just played a game in low power with my High CMC Matters Golos, Tireless Pilgrim deck. I killed one of the players with Ancient Ooze and another with Mindshrieker. Then, the third player with Ancient Ooze and Mindshrieker. The all raged out of the game calling Golos a completely busted card. I am completely and utterly baffled. ANCIENT OOZE?!!


My exact line of play was.
T3 - Dryad of the Ilysian Grove
T4 - Golos, Tireless Pilgrim find Cabal Coffers
T5 - Soulfire Eruption + Combustible Gearhulk hit everyone for 9 and kill Lathliss, Dragon Queen
T6 - Ancient Ooze + Volrath the Fallen
T7 - Mindshrieker + Bringer of the Black Dawn (I don't use bringer until T10). Ancient Ooze kills someone.
T8 - Sifter Wurm (scrying Deep-Sea Kraken to the top. Mindshrieker kills player B.
T9 - Attacks.
T10 - Mindshrieker and Ancient Ooze kill the final player. First and only time I activated golos was here and he put Krosan Tusker and Academy Rector into play.

Whenever people don't have a good time playing the deck I cut cards. I guess the biggest offender here was Dryad of the Ilysian Grove?? That or Cabal Coffers I guess? I'm just completely baffled as to why people are so salty after I killed them with Ancient Ooze... They were really salty about my Soulfire Eruption too, which is just a terrible card.

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Post by pokken » 1 month ago

materpillar wrote:
1 month ago
T3 - Dryad of the Ilysian Grove
T4 - Golos, Tireless Pilgrim find Cabal Coffers
Cabal Coffers is a good commander it sounds like :P I can say from experience that's true.

But still like...turn 10 and no sweepers or removal spells? What that?

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Post by lyonhaert » 1 month ago

materpillar wrote:
1 month ago
I just played a game in low power with my High CMC Matters Golos, Tireless Pilgrim deck. I killed one of the players with Ancient Ooze and another with Mindshrieker. Then, the third player with Ancient Ooze and Mindshrieker. The all raged out of the game calling Golos a completely busted card. I am completely and utterly baffled. ANCIENT OOZE?!!


My exact line of play was.
T3 - Dryad of the Ilysian Grove
T4 - Golos, Tireless Pilgrim find Cabal Coffers
T5 - Soulfire Eruption + Combustible Gearhulk hit everyone for 9 and kill Lathliss, Dragon Queen
T6 - Ancient Ooze + Volrath the Fallen
T7 - Mindshrieker + Bringer of the Black Dawn (I don't use bringer until T10). Ancient Ooze kills someone.
T8 - Sifter Wurm (scrying Deep-Sea Kraken to the top. Mindshrieker kills player B.
T9 - Attacks.
T10 - Mindshrieker and Ancient Ooze kill the final player. First and only time I activated golos was here and he put Krosan Tusker and Academy Rector into play.

Whenever people don't have a good time playing the deck I cut cards. I guess the biggest offender here was Dryad of the Ilysian Grove?? That or Cabal Coffers I guess? I'm just completely baffled as to why people are so salty after I killed them with Ancient Ooze... They were really salty about my Soulfire Eruption too, which is just a terrible card.
Not sure you really need to cut anything, maybe they're just salty because they underestimated you. And I can't assume they were way lower power than your deck, because I figure Lathliss was somebody's commander. Dryad was definitely the enabler for Coffers, but how many extra land drops did you actually get from it? And you're saying you hardcast both of of those cards turn 5?

You didn't mention any other creature destructions, so... they still just had no blockers for the Ooze... which doesn't have any evasion?
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 1 month ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 month ago
Yeah I agree, that isn't what this is. They've been a lot more delicate with this play than they were with TWD, to the point where it's not really a fair comparison. It seems like they're trying to make these somewhat of stand-alone products that aren't MtG canon per se, while still being legal outside of standard.
Maybe I'm being a little cynical, but isn't "stand-alone products that aren't MtG canon per se, while still being legal outside of standard" exactly what TWD SL was with a more restrictive distribution model? If anything this seems less delicate because making including these crossovers into commander decks is targeting a much larger segment of the playerbase than TWD SL did. We're going to see a lot more of the 40k crossover than TWD SL.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 month ago

WotC's pathetic hype generator wrote:The Warhammer 40,000 Commander decks
:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

I wish I could say I was surprised, but TWD proved that wotc isn't above anything to make a quick buck.

And of course they're not going to make magic versions. And of course they're not going to be silver border. Even though the vast majority of the invested playbase wanted one of those solutions to be used. Because pretending to care about what the players wanted was a total %$#% lie.

And ofc it's targeting commander. Because WotC has realized that commander is their most popular format and are determined to milk it for everything it's worth with the cheapest possible gimmicks, rather than actually try to, y'know, make it good. Because WotC has never understood what makes commander good.

I realize this is a bit hyperbolic, but I seriously feel ill. This is a horrible, horrible direction for the game. Sure, LotR is relatively innocuous (though imo 40K is absolutely NOT), but there will be more and more cringey BS. There will be functionally unique secret lairs AND there will be outside IP commander decks.

Hang on, I feel some more...I think I might need to... :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

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Post by RxPhantom » 1 month ago

SocorroTortoise wrote:
1 month ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 month ago
Yeah I agree, that isn't what this is. They've been a lot more delicate with this play than they were with TWD, to the point where it's not really a fair comparison. It seems like they're trying to make these somewhat of stand-alone products that aren't MtG canon per se, while still being legal outside of standard.
Maybe I'm being a little cynical, but isn't "stand-alone products that aren't MtG canon per se, while still being legal outside of standard" exactly what TWD SL was with a more restrictive distribution model? If anything this seems less delicate because making including these crossovers into commander decks is targeting a much larger segment of the playerbase than TWD SL did. We're going to see a lot more of the 40k crossover than TWD SL.
I agree. TWD was them dipping their toe; Universes Beyond is them diving in. It's hard for me to not be cynical. I'm trying though.

It's a little more annoying for me because I've always disliked 40K's aesthetic, and now it gets an entire booster expansion and some Commander decks? Pass.
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 month ago

While everyone else is distracted by Warhammer and LotR, I noticed this:



I don't want to make assumptions but brick and mortar locations have already been at risk because of the pandemic and now WotC wants to add even more products they can't sell? I'm sure there's an exec at Hasbro who has a mini stroke everytime he thinks of SCG or TCGplayer, but bypassing local gaming stores isn't the way.

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Post by pokken » 1 month ago

I do kinda hope the rc bans this nonsense and preserves us from having rule 0 convos about whether we want space marines and drop pods and what not but if not it prob won't be any worse than the current golos meta where every damn going is slowly but surely drifting toward cedh.

Still I think I'd rather people ask permission than me having to ask them not to play space elves

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Post by DirkGently » 1 month ago

I'm just a stupid lobster but I think this water is getting hotter.

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Post by Hermes_ » 1 month ago

So,does WotC/hasbro own The Arabian Nights ip? Asking for my memory
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Post by DirkGently » 1 month ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
So,does WotC/hasbro own The Arabian Nights ip? Asking for my memory
I assume you're being rhetorical, but I personally don't care one iota if WotC wants to copy from public domain works. What I don't like is my cards being advertisements. It's sleazy and it's distracting and it's gross.

Ban+boycott the %$#% triangle.

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Post by Hermes_ » 1 month ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 month ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 month ago
So,does WotC/hasbro own The Arabian Nights ip? Asking for my memory
I assume you're being rhetorical, but I personally don't care one iota if WotC wants to copy from public domain works.
So the Great Gatsby would be okay then? or anything on this list for that matter: https://mymodernmet.com/2021-public-domain/
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