[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread

User avatar
Guardman
A Dog's Dream of Man
Posts: 532
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: In a Turn-Based World

Post by Guardman » 5 months ago

JWK wrote:
5 months ago
I would always just scoop if someone cast Scrambleverse. Life is too short for crap like that.
When I put together my Etali Chaos deck the one thing I was told by my playgroup was if I ever play Scrambleverse they get to punch me in the face for each nonland permenant on the board. I'm pretty sure they weren't joking.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 3187
Joined: 1 year ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 5 months ago

Thieves' Auction is worse. I just refuse to play with nonsense like that. It's worse than Shahrazad.

User avatar
Ulka
Posts: 486
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Minneapolis
Contact:

Post by Ulka » 5 months ago

I might have to sell off a few cards soon which makes me sad. Turns out grad school and engagement rings are expensive especially when I have a J-term class I wasn't expecting this January.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Zoo | Sultai Teachings
EDH:Bladewing | Blind Seer | Zuberi | He Who Hungers
EDH continued:Mishra | Kynaios and Tiro | Dosan | Zedruu | Mikeaus | 4 color ZadaMayael

User avatar
materpillar
the caterpillar
Posts: 501
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Ohio

Post by materpillar » 5 months ago

... huh. I didn't realize there was so much hate for Scrambleverse. That's really interesting because I don't really hate the card, the couple of times I've seen it cast were kinda entertaining (although this was around a decade ago). I brought it up specifically because it's easy to get cards stolen (even accidentally) not because of game play impact.

I don't want to derail this too heavily but I'm curious if people are more annoyed about someone casting Expropriate or Scrambleverse.

...Oh, scrambleverse is really high on EDHrec's salt list. Would you look at that.
Ulka wrote:
5 months ago
I might have to sell off a few cards soon which makes me sad. Turns out grad school and engagement rings are expensive especially when I have a J-term class I wasn't expecting this January.
Congratz on needing engagement rings though.

User avatar
ISBPathfinder
Bebopin
Posts: 1134
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: SD, USA

Post by ISBPathfinder » 5 months ago

Ulka wrote:
5 months ago
I might have to sell off a few cards soon which makes me sad. Turns out grad school and engagement rings are expensive especially when I have a J-term class I wasn't expecting this January.
Sorry to hear that and good luck. Engagement rings are stupid expensive sadly especially if you aren't getting something more basic. I remember when I got married the first time I went into wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much debt to get a ring. Ohhhh man, that was kinda rough lol.

When I got married this last time I gave her a family ring and now she wears a plastic stretchy band most of the time anyways lol. I have something like a $30 ring myself lol.
materpillar wrote:
5 months ago
... huh. I didn't realize there was so much hate for Scrambleverse. That's really interesting because I don't really hate the card, the couple of times I've seen it cast were kinda entertaining (although this was around a decade ago). I brought it up specifically because it's easy to get cards stolen (even accidentally) not because of game play impact.

I don't want to derail this too heavily but I'm curious if people are more annoyed about someone casting Expropriate or Scrambleverse.

...Oh, scrambleverse is really high on EDHrec's salt list. Would you look at that.
I hate scrambleverse wayyyyyyyyyyy more but I refuse to play either card myself. Both cards make me want to jam a bunch of blue counters to be honest.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

User avatar
tstorm823
Knowledge Pool
Posts: 613
Joined: 1 year ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him
Location: York, PA

Post by tstorm823 » 5 months ago

pokken wrote:
5 months ago
Thieves' Auction is worse. I just refuse to play with nonsense like that. It's worse than Shahrazad.
Thieves' Auction is not worse. At least with Thieves' Auction, you can shortcut it if someone has like 20 tokens once everything else is picked. Scrambleverse has to be resolved one permanent at a time.
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 3187
Joined: 1 year ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 5 months ago

tstorm823 wrote:
5 months ago
pokken wrote:
5 months ago
Thieves' Auction is worse. I just refuse to play with nonsense like that. It's worse than Shahrazad.
Thieves' Auction is not worse. At least with Thieves' Auction, you can shortcut it if someone has like 20 tokens once everything else is picked. Scrambleverse has to be resolved one permanent at a time.
Thieves' auction doesn't affect tokens at all which is a big upgrade of simplicity for when someone is playing tokens, but otherwise it's way worse because people have to choose :P

Thieves' Auction affects *lands* however which makes it a billionty times worse.

-------------------------------------------------
materpillar wrote:
5 months ago
don't want to derail this too heavily but I'm curious if people are more annoyed about someone casting Expropriate or Scrambleverse.
I hate all the ~10 mana sorcery win the game cards roughly equally (though some are far more annoying to resolve, I usually just don't want to bother so they're equally annoying). Watching someone play out an Expropriate is possibly worse because people don't usually scoop to it but the odds of losing are pretty low (though they go up the weaker everyone's decks are).

At the power level I play at they're all basically the same to me. Tooth and Nail Genesis Wave Torment of Hailfire Expropriate Thieves' Auction The Great Aurora etc etc.

I've got a bit of a soft spot for Finale of Devastation because it's vulnerable to creature removal and other interaction most of the time. For me that's the main difference. Genesis Wave is generally less bad than Tooth and Nail etc.

Mostly I would rather see people assemble wincons out of components rather than cast single spells that win the game unless countered.

User avatar
materpillar
the caterpillar
Posts: 501
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Ohio

Post by materpillar » 4 months ago

pokken wrote:
5 months ago
I hate all the ~10 mana sorcery win the game cards roughly equally (though some are far more annoying to resolve, I usually just don't want to bother so they're equally annoying). Watching someone play out an Expropriate is possibly worse because people don't usually scoop to it but the odds of losing are pretty low (though they go up the weaker everyone's decks are).

At the power level I play at they're all basically the same to me. Tooth and Nail Genesis Wave Torment of Hailfire Expropriate Thieves' Auction The Great Aurora etc etc.

I've got a bit of a soft spot for Finale of Devastation because it's vulnerable to creature removal and other interaction most of the time. For me that's the main difference. Genesis Wave is generally less bad than Tooth and Nail etc.

Mostly I would rather see people assemble wincons out of components rather than cast single spells that win the game unless countered.
I just reverberated a Genesis wave for 23 and hit Dualcaster Mage to Genesis wave for another 23. That felt pretty good.

User avatar
RxPhantom
Pharmacist
Posts: 622
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Southern Maryland

Post by RxPhantom » 4 months ago

I have to say, I love Tooth and Nail, but right now I only use it in my mono-green fatties deck, and all it does is get stuff like Regal Force or maybe God-Eternal Rhonas if I'm ready to close things out. No Craterhoofs though. I don't think I'd run it even if I could afford it.
Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 3/14/21 (Kaldheim).

My (inactive) 720 Peasant Cube

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 3187
Joined: 1 year ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 months ago

materpillar wrote:
4 months ago
I just reverberated a Genesis wave for 23 and hit Dualcaster Mage to Genesis wave for another 23. That felt pretty good.
That's sick :) Most colors don't have stack interaction but it's nice to see red has been getting more over the years.

User avatar
Dunharrow
Posts: 797
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 4 months ago

materpillar wrote:
4 months ago
I just reverberated a Genesis wave for 23 and hit Dualcaster Mage to Genesis wave for another 23. That felt pretty good.
Tell me you won?
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 2214
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 months ago

pokken wrote:
5 months ago
Mostly I would rather see people assemble wincons out of components rather than cast single spells that win the game unless countered.
I generally agree, and I try to do the same myself, but it can make for a grindy game. Some of these I do run (T&N, Torment, Gen Wave), but because I enjoy interactions towards a win as my preferred method they're usually 'this game needs to end' buttons.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 3187
Joined: 1 year ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
4 months ago
I generally agree, and I try to do the same myself, but it can make for a grindy game. Some of these I do run (T&N, Torment, Gen Wave), but because I enjoy interactions towards a win as my preferred method they're usually 'this game needs to end' buttons.
I usually have combos as my 'release valve' as it were - Altar of Dementia with creatures that are otherwise great in my deck, vs. topdecking a thing that wins on its own without interaction. But I can see both sides. Just a matter of taste really. Lots of people feel about combos the way I feel about Torment of Hailfire

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 2214
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 months ago

pokken wrote:
4 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
4 months ago
I generally agree, and I try to do the same myself, but it can make for a grindy game. Some of these I do run (T&N, Torment, Gen Wave), but because I enjoy interactions towards a win as my preferred method they're usually 'this game needs to end' buttons.
I usually have combos as my 'release valve' as it were - Altar of Dementia with creatures that are otherwise great in my deck, vs. topdecking a thing that wins on its own without interaction. But I can see both sides. Just a matter of taste really. Lots of people feel about combos the way I feel about Torment of Hailfire
I'll usually include a combo here or there but not lean too heavily in. At some point making the combo too integral makes a deck seem really deterministic, you're just spinning wheels until you hit your key cards and that's just as boring to me. So usually I'm happy with 3-4 card combos as they take a little work and don't just go off at the drop of a pin. It's all within the synergy of the deck anyway, if a card has no business being in the build I'll not include it for the sake of a win con. And if I can win without combo I'll definitely do that first.

For example, I had a game with Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded a month or so ago where I had Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and snuck in Zealous Conscripts to steal a Xyris, the Writhing Storm, cast Terror of the Peaks and wheeled 4 times to burn the table out. It was like...a week later before I realised I could've Kiki-Conscripted for the win much more cleanly. I still prefer what I did, but it was pretty janky and messy by comparison.

The worst of the big spell bunch for me is Expropriate - whether or not someone can win, it has the worst of both worlds; it could very well win shortly after resolving, but if it doesn't you face the possibility of sitting through someone durdling for several turns until they find a way to close out the game. Either way holds very little satisfaction for me. I usually just scoop once it resolves, I sit down to play, not watch other people play.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
materpillar
the caterpillar
Posts: 501
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Ohio

Post by materpillar » 4 months ago

pokken wrote:
4 months ago
That's sick :) Most colors don't have stack interaction but it's nice to see red has been getting more over the years.
Ironically it's from my Jaya Ballard, Task Mage deck that is my second oldest deck. I actually it's the same Reverberate from the decklist I posted on the first page of SocorroTortoise's mtgsalvation primer back in 2012. xD

It's kind of interesting how little I've changed the list since then. Turns out packing a deck with tons of artifact hate and maindecking Red Elemental Blasts is still extremely strong in the current commander metagame.

Dunharrow wrote:
4 months ago
Tell me you won?
The original owner of the genesis wave died with their genesis wave still on the stack to Curse of Bloodletting and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle triggers. I also hit Extraplanar Lens, Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Might and Mana-Charged Dragon which the last remaining player did not have removal for (among probably half a dozen other ways to kill them but that was just the clearest route to kill them).

User avatar
Lifeless
Not here to contribute.
Posts: 123
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Lifeless » 4 months ago

I've found that I enjoy the game a lot more when I'm not playing every staple bomb in every deck it can possibly be played in. T&N is a good example - I have 4 green decks, run it in 2 of them, and only have Craterhoof +Avenger in 1 deck. It was easy to cut T&N from the other decks because it made them feel unpleasantly homogeneous.

User avatar
ISBPathfinder
Bebopin
Posts: 1134
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: SD, USA

Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 months ago

Lifeless wrote:
4 months ago
I've found that I enjoy the game a lot more when I'm not playing every staple bomb in every deck it can possibly be played in. T&N is a good example - I have 4 green decks, run it in 2 of them, and only have Craterhoof +Avenger in 1 deck. It was easy to cut T&N from the other decks because it made them feel unpleasantly homogeneous.
Its been probably 8 years since I have played T&N. Part of it is I kind of hate green but really the reason I don't play the spell is that it costs too much. Back in the day I used to use it in my bant deck getting Avenger + Glen Elendra but I really haven't been impressed with the spell as a whole without an insta win following it and even then most of those are incredibly glass cannon effects that any creature level interaction can break apart. I tend to not play any 6+ mana win the game spells in general though.

I often get accused of not having wincons in my deck. A deck that plays well will find a way to win is usually my argument. I would rather make a deck perform smoothly than have dedicated "win the game" cards included.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

User avatar
Guardman
A Dog's Dream of Man
Posts: 532
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: In a Turn-Based World

Post by Guardman » 4 months ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
4 months ago
Lifeless wrote:
4 months ago
I've found that I enjoy the game a lot more when I'm not playing every staple bomb in every deck it can possibly be played in. T&N is a good example - I have 4 green decks, run it in 2 of them, and only have Craterhoof +Avenger in 1 deck. It was easy to cut T&N from the other decks because it made them feel unpleasantly homogeneous.
Its been probably 8 years since I have played T&N. Part of it is I kind of hate green but really the reason I don't play the spell is that it costs too much. Back in the day I used to use it in my bant deck getting Avenger + Glen Elendra but I really haven't been impressed with the spell as a whole without an insta win following it and even then most of those are incredibly glass cannon effects that any creature level interaction can break apart. I tend to not play any 6+ mana win the game spells in general though.

I often get accused of not having wincons in my deck. A deck that plays well will find a way to win is usually my argument. I would rather make a deck perform smoothly than have dedicated "win the game" cards included.
I feel the same way. EDH as a format is supposed to be enjoyed. As much as I hate group hug decks, I at least respect the fact that they are playing the game the way they enjoy it. On the other hand their are people who like playing pretty much CEDH decks in non-CEDH games who don't enjoy the game unless they are winning and winning big. And half the time it seems like their enjoyment is a zero sum game. They aren't having fun unless everyone else is miserable.

That's why I really like my Etali deck. Yes, it can win without her, but the whole plan is to win with other people's win conditions. My favorite win ever came win I won a game with my Etali deck by hitting Laboratory Maniac off of her trigger and then casting my opponent's Demonic Consultation off of Dire Fleet Daredevil to get rid of my library and then killing my own Solemn Simulacrum to draw a card for a win. And that's why I play EDH. Not to win, but to win in a way people will talk about, to win in ways I didn't even know I could.

Auto-win cards get boring after one or two games.

User avatar
SocorroTortoise
Not A Turtle
Posts: 332
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: San Diego, CA

Post by SocorroTortoise » 4 months ago

Got my CMR collector box today and pulled an extended foil Jeweled Lotus so I think the box definitely worked out for me.

Somewhat awkwardly, it's not a card I'm likely to play (even aside from the fact that I haven't played at all since March). Not a lot of fast mana in my group.
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 2214
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 months ago

SocorroTortoise wrote:
4 months ago
Got my CMR collector box today and pulled an extended foil Jeweled Lotus so I think the box definitely worked out for me.

Somewhat awkwardly, it's not a card I'm likely to play (even aside from the fact that I haven't played at all since March). Not a lot of fast mana in my group.
Without trying to sound too much like an mtgfinance greaseball, if you're not going to use it, trade it ASAP while it holds its value. The hype is still relatively high for it, but prices have already started to drop, and this isn't a limited print run product so it'll probably settle relatively low in comparison to all the hullabaloo a few weeks back.

My wife pulled a non-foil, took one look and went "worth money right? Trade it in." She hasn't played in months and still saw the writing on the wall and that it was a flash in the pan hype card. It's just helpful in only a couple of niche decks, and the thrill of playing "Black Lotus" in EDH just doesn't stand up to close scrutiny or logic.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
SocorroTortoise
Not A Turtle
Posts: 332
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: San Diego, CA

Post by SocorroTortoise » 4 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
4 months ago
Without trying to sound too much like an mtgfinance greaseball, if you're not going to use it, trade it ASAP while it holds its value. The hype is still relatively high for it, but prices have already started to drop, and this isn't a limited print run product so it'll probably settle relatively low in comparison to all the hullabaloo a few weeks back.

My wife pulled a non-foil, took one look and went "worth money right? Trade it in." She hasn't played in months and still saw the writing on the wall and that it was a flash in the pan hype card. It's just helpful in only a couple of niche decks, and the thrill of playing "Black Lotus" in EDH just doesn't stand up to close scrutiny or logic.
That's the sensible thing to do, but I'm planning on holding onto it. It's not something I would realistically buy as a single, it's a neat card, and I'll be fine without the money. There's always the chance I'll use it someday and it's a neat thing to own either way. Good looking out!
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box

User avatar
ISBPathfinder
Bebopin
Posts: 1134
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: SD, USA

Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
4 months ago
SocorroTortoise wrote:
4 months ago
Got my CMR collector box today and pulled an extended foil Jeweled Lotus so I think the box definitely worked out for me.

Somewhat awkwardly, it's not a card I'm likely to play (even aside from the fact that I haven't played at all since March). Not a lot of fast mana in my group.
Without trying to sound too much like an mtgfinance greaseball, if you're not going to use it, trade it ASAP while it holds its value. The hype is still relatively high for it, but prices have already started to drop, and this isn't a limited print run product so it'll probably settle relatively low in comparison to all the hullabaloo a few weeks back.

My wife pulled a non-foil, took one look and went "worth money right? Trade it in." She hasn't played in months and still saw the writing on the wall and that it was a flash in the pan hype card. It's just helpful in only a couple of niche decks, and the thrill of playing "Black Lotus" in EDH just doesn't stand up to close scrutiny or logic.
I actually think there is more money to be had if you don't mind letting it mature selling it a few years later. Generally speaking those hot sales often happen before the product actually launches. I don't know on the sweet alt foils and such but generally speaking you get a lot more back on your money if you can sell things like 2-4+ years later.

Sale prices usually soften starting at launch and decline until about 3 months have past. After that phase usually prices settle low and its usually about two years later that they start to climb again.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

User avatar
Lifeless
Not here to contribute.
Posts: 123
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Lifeless » 4 months ago

Yeah, it's definitely a card that you should sell immediately or take a few years and see what happens. If they don't reprint it the nicer versions they will tick back up over time.

User avatar
Dunharrow
Posts: 797
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 4 months ago

It can go either way

Mox Amber is still worth something, but the foil is at 45$ while at the beginning it was selling for over 100$.
Mana Crypt has steadily increased in price since it was reprinted in Eternal Masters.

But at least lotus helps you cast the general unlike Mox Amber.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

User avatar
materpillar
the caterpillar
Posts: 501
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Ohio

Post by materpillar » 4 months ago

Just played a game with my Golos, High CMC matters deck. Found the unintentional combo of Volrath the Fallen, discard Primal Surge for +10/+10. Blasphemous Act, nug opponent for 16 with volrath.

I also love casting Pyromancy. Everyone always has to read it and they get so confused. Then there's this delicious slow change from confusion to teenagers in a horror movie as every card discard brings my opponents closer to realizing that my hand probably is only 8+ drops. The first hit always results in some flavor of "ouch I got unlucky". By the third someone is pleading for enchantment removal. I ended up killing two people with it which felt exceptional.

The last player took me out though because Vial Smasher the Fierce and Sakashima of a Thousand Faces did so much damage to me in the early game. That partner combo is scary.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Commander”