[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread

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Post by RxPhantom » 5 months ago

Without going too deep, I am filled with anxiety and disappointment right now. I know they're still counting, but...oy.
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

Without going too deep, I am filled with booze right now.

No matter what ultimately happens, it's hard not to feel like American democracy is broken and I don't know how or if it will ever get fixed. I'm dubious that either candidate has the capacity tbh.

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Post by Hermes_ » 5 months ago

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Post by Hermes_ » 5 months ago

Dunharrow wrote:
5 months ago

If the name Dunharrow didnt' give it away, I'll let you know I am a big fan.
Just to kinda answer a few things in this conversation:
1. Christopher Tolkien stepped down as head of the Tolkien Estate. He was always against any adaptations. First thing they did after he stepped down was auction off the rights to all the remaining text (Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The Children of Hurin, Beren and Luthien, The Fall of Gondolin), with Amazon winning for something like 2 billion dollars.
There was a joke that at one point Christopher was basically publishing his father's waste basket.
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Post by Dunharrow » 5 months ago

Hermes_ wrote:
5 months ago
Dunharrow wrote:
5 months ago

If the name Dunharrow didnt' give it away, I'll let you know I am a big fan.
Just to kinda answer a few things in this conversation:
1. Christopher Tolkien stepped down as head of the Tolkien Estate. He was always against any adaptations. First thing they did after he stepped down was auction off the rights to all the remaining text (Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The Children of Hurin, Beren and Luthien, The Fall of Gondolin), with Amazon winning for something like 2 billion dollars.
There was a joke that at one point Christopher was basically publishing his father's waste basket.
JRR Tolkien was really disorganized. Christopher had to scrape together the stories based on texts written decades apart, often with characters' names having been changed. In some cases, there are huge gaps because his father never got to writing those parts.
I think Christopher did an amazing job, all things considered. And I am very happy he dug through notes and bits of paper for decades because if he hadn't we never would have these stories at all.
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Post by Dunharrow » 5 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
Dunharrow wrote:
5 months ago
If the name Dunharrow didnt' give it away, I'll let you know I am a big fan.
Just to kinda answer a few things in this conversation:
1. Christopher Tolkien stepped down as head of the Tolkien Estate. He was always against any adaptations. First thing they did after he stepped down was auction off the rights to all the remaining text (Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The Children of Hurin, Beren and Luthien, The Fall of Gondolin), with Amazon winning for something like 2 billion dollars.
2. Amazon, last I heard, was planning at least two series, though I think they are only filming one right now (in Toc's New Zealand). They have not been clear about the subject matter. I hoped they would start with the Silmarillion.
3. We could be entering an era of licensing characters and settings to many things, including games. Lord of the Rings spawned some great video games. So do not dismiss Secret Lair : Middle-Earth any time soon! *groan*
1. Good he decided to step down. He wasn't really suited for the work, and I am glad he realized this.
2. Two series is nice. I've always thought there was a lot of space in middle earth for smaller, less epic, but still cool stories. There are so many characters mentioned in passing in Tolkien's works with barely any detail on what they did to warrant a mention. And there were plenty of mysteries in the books as well. Like what happened to the Stone Giants? And what was that thing in the pool outside the mines of Moria. And so on. Hopefully Amazon will explore this in one of their series.
3. I would not be surprised, but at least it would be fantasy, unlike another recent SL.
1. He died like 3 years later. He was very old. It was not about feeling suited for the work, it was age. I also think he did an amazing job and understand why he never like the idea of movie/tv adaptations. His father was very regretful about having sold the rights to Lord of the Rings.
2. Stone Giants and the Watcher in the Water are not mentioned in any of Tolkien's literature outside those two specific scenes. It would suck for Amazon to invent stories for these things when there are so many things they can cover from The Silmarillion and other texts. Instead of asking about the Watcher in the Water, why don't you ask about Aragorn's ring with the serpents? Much cooler to delve into that in my opinion.
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Post by Krishnath » 5 months ago

1. To be fair, I think a lot of JRR's regret in that instance had more to do with what he was promised and what the movie studio delivered. He was promised a faithful live action adaption of the books, what was delivered was a rotoscoped animated movie that covered about half of the first book, and was not particularly faithful or even, well, good.

2. That is kinda my point though, there are literally a hundred of little things that are barely mentioned in the books that has never been elaborated upon but that helped give the world flavor. An anthology series could cover a lot of this, Aragon's serpent ring, the Watcher in the Water, where the Moira Balrog actually came from as they were supposed to be dead at that point, what happened to all the other dragons, where the werebeasts came from, and so on and so forth.
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Post by toctheyounger » 5 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
1. To be fair, I think a lot of JRR's regret in that instance had more to do with what he was promised and what the movie studio delivered. He was promised a faithful live action adaption of the books, what was delivered was a rotoscoped animated movie that covered about half of the first book, and was not particularly faithful or even, well, good.
I mean Bakshi's adaptation was mostly awful. Apparently the guy has an ego that won't fit through doors and he despises the Peter Jackson adaptations (personally I think 20 years later it's still the absolute pinnacle of fantasy cinema in almost every aspect). That being said, there are aspects of the Bakshi film that aren't entirely bad. The ringwraiths in particular I quite liked, despite the fact that the film has aged very poorly. Mainly though - why did Aragorn and Boromir not have pants???
If that is all they cover, then it is more based on the Book of Lost Stories than the Silmarillion though. For it to have been based on the Silmarillion you need the destruction of the trees, the forging of the Silmarillions, the theft of the stones, the Elven Exodus, the war against Morgoth, the unleashing of the dragons, the gods literally walking the earth, the loss of the stones, the source of the dwarf/elf conflict (surprise, it was the Silmarillions), the birth of the half-elves, the separated siblings, the death of Glaurung, the black blade, and the only human to ever visit the ancestral homeland of the elves.

It is such an epic story it's a shame they decided to make a movie about the aftermath and the rings rather than all the stuff that is basically the cause of all the strife in LotR verse.
While I agree, the scope of starting at the start of the first age or with the beginning of the creation mythos widens the scope of the series to a pretty baffling degree. There's SO much to go over, and a lot of it is pretty complex (even if it is pretty awesome source content - I love how dark things get outside of the ring trilogy). Like, how do you even assemble a cast, how do you script write with that sort of depth? It's nigh on impossible. And it makes sense to just focus on the rings and Sauron's betrayal - it's what's familiar to those outside of the Tolkien hardcore fan base and to those who have only seen the movies to date.

I've thought the same about my favourite fantasy series, Malazan book of the Fallen. I'm torn; I'd love to see an attempt at film/tv, but the scope of it would by definition need to be so wide it would be bafflingly hard to adapt well. So in that respect, I'd rather see nothing at all than a botched attempt. Drawing this back to Tolkien, I think outside of LotR, it's best to dip toes in the Silmarillion content from the part of the path that people know well, and if there's a good reception to it, we can go further back.
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Post by Krishnath » 5 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
I mean Bakshi's adaptation was mostly awful. Apparently the guy has an ego that won't fit through doors and he despises the Peter Jackson adaptations (personally I think 20 years later it's still the absolute pinnacle of fantasy cinema in almost every aspect). That being said, there are aspects of the Bakshi film that aren't entirely bad. The ringwraiths in particular I quite liked, despite the fact that the film has aged very poorly. Mainly though - why did Aragorn and Boromir not have pants???
Jackson's adaption of LotR is the best adaption to date, it's near perfect to be honest. The Hobbit movies however, one can only assume that the reason they were so lackluster compared to LotR was because of fatigue on part of the people involved. Not that the book version of the Hobbit was on par with the book version of the LotR trilogy either.
Still, I feel mostly innui that a faithful adaption of Tolkien's masterwork the Silmarillion is unlikely to happen :(
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Post by cryogen » 5 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
I mean Bakshi's adaptation was mostly awful. Apparently the guy has an ego that won't fit through doors and he despises the Peter Jackson adaptations (personally I think 20 years later it's still the absolute pinnacle of fantasy cinema in almost every aspect). That being said, there are aspects of the Bakshi film that aren't entirely bad. The ringwraiths in particular I quite liked, despite the fact that the film has aged very poorly. Mainly though - why did Aragorn and Boromir not have pants???
Jackson's adaption of LotR is the best adaption to date, it's near perfect to be honest. The Hobbit movies however, one can only assume that the reason they were so lackluster compared to LotR was because of fatigue on part of the people involved. Not that the book version of the Hobbit was on par with the book version of the LotR trilogy either.
Still, I feel mostly innui that a faithful adaption of Tolkien's masterwork the Silmarillion is unlikely to happen :(
Well we also reached perfection with the The Hobbit in 1977.
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Post by toctheyounger » 5 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
Jackson's adaption of LotR is the best adaption to date, it's near perfect to be honest. The Hobbit movies however, one can only assume that the reason they were so lackluster compared to LotR was because of fatigue on part of the people involved. Not that the book version of the Hobbit was on par with the book version of the LotR trilogy either.
Still, I feel mostly innui that a faithful adaption of Tolkien's masterwork the Silmarillion is unlikely to happen
They initially had Guillermo Del Toro at the helm, and for whatever reason the studio decided it wasn't for him, but he'd already started moving things forward. So Jackson stepped in to help a brother out and took him on as exec producer, with much reluctance - mostly because the studio put them on a timeline that didn't exist for the originals. Jackson had complete logistic control over the first, and virtually none over the second, which is why there's much more reliance on CGI, a lot of the scenes are pretty hammy and overwrought. It wasn't a passion project for him whatsoever, he was helping out a mate and apparently is not interested in ever using that studio again.

Also, I think there's a good possibility of a faithful adaptation of Silmarillion, it's just going to be segmented. You're talking about a book that literally covers millennia of events, lives and wars. There's pretty much only one character from LotR that is alive through all of it, in Galadriel.
Well we also reached perfection with the The Hobbit in 1977.
Rankin/Bass was better than the Bakshi film, and I will admit no more than that.
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Post by Krishnath » 5 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
Also, I think there's a good possibility of a faithful adaptation of Silmarillion, it's just going to be segmented. You're talking about a book that literally covers millennia of events, lives and wars. There's pretty much only one character from LotR that is alive through all of it, in Galadriel.
It's possible to do, but not as a single movie or even as a trilogy. As a big budget series with hour long episodes, maybe.

And to be fair, there are multiple characters who live through the whole thing, Galadriel just being the foremost. Like the fellow who ended up with one of the Silmarillions in the end (forever sailing the sky as the dawn star), and who was the only human to ever visit the Elves ancestral homeland. Although he was only introduced about half way through the whole thing when he fell in love with an elven princess and was tasked to take a Silmarillion from Morgoth/Melkior, which he managed to do (which in itself is a pretty friggin' epic story on its own.), and then eventually siring two half-elves by said princess, one of which embraced his humanity, becoming the ancestor of Aragorn, the other rejecting his human side, eventually becoming the leader of Rivendell (That being Elrond). And then there was the elven captain who got one of the three elven rings. He was still around during LoTR, and was one of the elves who were part of the first exodus after the Silmarillions got stolen by Morgoth/Melkior, and of course the elf who became Galadriel's Husband. Basically all the elves that survived the final battle against the Dark God survived until the LotR era. And of course, the one human (but to be honest, I don't think he could be considered human at the end).

Damn, now I want to read the Silmarillion again. >.<
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Post by toctheyounger » 5 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
Also, I think there's a good possibility of a faithful adaptation of Silmarillion, it's just going to be segmented. You're talking about a book that literally covers millennia of events, lives and wars. There's pretty much only one character from LotR that is alive through all of it, in Galadriel.
Damn, now I want to read the Silmarillion again. >.<
I need to! I know of all of these things, but it's a heavy read, so it's hard to take it all in on one pass.

A friend of mine helped write the sparknotes for the Silmarillion as his first job out of college. SUPER Tolkien nerd.
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Post by Krishnath » 5 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
Also, I think there's a good possibility of a faithful adaptation of Silmarillion, it's just going to be segmented. You're talking about a book that literally covers millennia of events, lives and wars. There's pretty much only one character from LotR that is alive through all of it, in Galadriel.
Damn, now I want to read the Silmarillion again. >.<
I need to! I know of all of these things, but it's a heavy read, so it's hard to take it all in on one pass.

A friend of mine helped write the sparknotes for the Silmarillion as his first job out of college. SUPER Tolkien nerd.
It is one of my three favorite books (the two others being H.P. Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness and Arthur C. Clarke's 2001, a Space Odyssey. All of which are great books.)
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Post by toctheyounger » 5 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago

Damn, now I want to read the Silmarillion again. >.<
I need to! I know of all of these things, but it's a heavy read, so it's hard to take it all in on one pass.

A friend of mine helped write the sparknotes for the Silmarillion as his first job out of college. SUPER Tolkien nerd.
It is one of my three favorite books (the two others being H.P. Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness and Arthur C. Clarke's 2001, a Space Odyssey. All of which are great books.)
I haven't read Clarke, but I love Lovecraft too. Rightly speaking he is the father of both modern fantasy and horror fiction. Don't know if I have a specific favourite story of his, but I very much enjoy reading him. I do find I have to pace it out a bit though. I get very strange dreams when I read too much of his stuff.
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Post by Krishnath » 5 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago

I need to! I know of all of these things, but it's a heavy read, so it's hard to take it all in on one pass.

A friend of mine helped write the sparknotes for the Silmarillion as his first job out of college. SUPER Tolkien nerd.
It is one of my three favorite books (the two others being H.P. Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness and Arthur C. Clarke's 2001, a Space Odyssey. All of which are great books.)
I haven't read Clarke, but I love Lovecraft too. Rightly speaking he is the father of both modern fantasy and horror fiction. Don't know if I have a specific favourite story of his, but I very much enjoy reading him. I do find I have to pace it out a bit though. I get very strange dreams when I read too much of his stuff.
That is the power of his writing at work, it's not that scary when you read it, but the dreams afterward are freaky.

I do highly recommend Clarke though, particularly if you like Sci-Fi, even his early work is quite good. The only one of his stories I didn't enjoy was Rama III, as it kind of ruined everything that happened in the previous books. But he had a co-author on that one who did most of the work as Clarke was getting on in years and his health had taken a sharp downturn. But the third and fourth parts of Space Odyssey (2061 and 3001) were pretty good though. 3001 actually stars
Spoiler
Show
A character who died in 2001, because the people at the time found his frozen corpse and decided to revive him and integrate him into their society, then weird things starts to happen all over the solar system, and it appears that Bowman is involved in some way, and then it gets kind of epic.
But one needs to read 2010 and 2061 first to keep track of all that happens in 3001 and for it to make sense.
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Post by toctheyounger » 5 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago


It is one of my three favorite books (the two others being H.P. Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness and Arthur C. Clarke's 2001, a Space Odyssey. All of which are great books.)
I haven't read Clarke, but I love Lovecraft too. Rightly speaking he is the father of both modern fantasy and horror fiction. Don't know if I have a specific favourite story of his, but I very much enjoy reading him. I do find I have to pace it out a bit though. I get very strange dreams when I read too much of his stuff.
That is the power of his writing at work, it's not that scary when you read it, but the dreams afterward are freaky.

I do highly recommend Clarke though, particularly if you like Sci-Fi, even his early work is quite good. The only one of his stories I didn't enjoy was Rama III, as it kind of ruined everything that happened in the previous books. But he had a co-author on that one who did most of the work as Clarke was getting on in years and his health had taken a sharp downturn. But the third and fourth parts of Space Odyssey (2061 and 3001) were pretty good though. 3001 actually stars
Spoiler
Show
A character who died in 2001, because the people at the time found his frozen corpse and decided to revive him and integrate him into their society, then weird things starts to happen all over the solar system, and it appears that Bowman is involved in some way, and then it gets kind of epic.
But one needs to read 2010 and 2061 first to keep track of all that happens in 3001 and for it to make sense.
I'll take that recommendation!

Seems like we need to start a book recommendation thread somewhere on the site, this is a few weeks after a flurry of other recommendations got thrown about here too. After all, what better way to keep your mind sharp in the midst of a pandemic?
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Post by Krishnath » 5 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
'll take that recommendation!

Seems like we need to start a book recommendation thread somewhere on the site, this is a few weeks after a flurry of other recommendations got thrown about here too. After all, what better way to keep your mind sharp in the midst of a pandemic?
Done.
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Post by Hermes_ » 5 months ago

*Franz Kafka sniffles in sadness before crawling along the wood work*
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

I've been watching CNN pretty religiously the past few days and if I have to hear someone say "270 is what you need to win", "Pennsylvania is the whole ball game", or "We have to count the votes" one more time, I may lose my mind. Getting real bored of the recaps and airtime-filling when there's nothing new to talk about.

Anyone have a (something) that just notifies you whenever there's an actual numbers update?

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Post by toctheyounger » 5 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
5 months ago
I've been watching CNN pretty religiously the past few days and if I have to hear someone say "270 is what you need to win", "Pennsylvania is the whole ball game", or "We have to count the votes" one more time, I may lose my mind. Getting real bored of the recaps and airtime-filling when there's nothing new to talk about.

Anyone have a (something) that just notifies you whenever there's an actual numbers update?
Completely unhelpful here, but I'm part of a LOTR %$#% group on FB and I'm just enjoying the memes tbh. People on both sides getting real salty, but there's some great comedy coming out of the scenario.

I feel for the anxiety though, it's a tenuous situation that you wouldn't believe unless it weren't happening.
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Post by Toshi » 5 months ago

I know we're usually trying to keep politics out of this thread, but with this election being an absolute sh#t show, it is very hard to stay quiet about it.
I'm sitting awake by 02:00 at night here, hoping for Biden to win GA, PA, NV, AZ and NC for the mere sake of regaining stability in the weeks to come.

I'll switch to Packers vs 49ers now, with CNN on mute on my second screen. Sorry for offloading this here. Stay safe and healthy, my fellow Nexians...

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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

NoNeedToBragoBoutIt wrote:
5 months ago
I know we're usually trying to keep politics out of this thread, but with this election being an absolute sh#t show, it is very hard to stay quiet about it.
Well, I'm not advocating for one candidate or the other, so I figured it wasn't politically charged. Just that I want to stay updated, as I assume nearly everyone does.

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Post by Dunharrow » 5 months ago

Canadian here. I called this in May.. I knew Trump would not let go. To be fair, I said he was going to cancel the election because of 'safety concerns' and extend his presidency.
It became obvious when he started talking about voter fraud in the mail that he would contest the election.
Anyway, as of this morning looks like Biden is 200 votes up in Georgia.
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Post by JWK » 5 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
I do highly recommend Clarke though, particularly if you like Sci-Fi, even his early work is quite good.
Clarke is underappreciated today. My favorite of his novels, by a long stride, is Childhood's End. I heard the TV adaptation was pretty terrible, but the novel itself is brilliant.
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