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tstorm823
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Post by tstorm823 » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
I might have said something along the lines of "I think if we don't topdeck a wrath this turn, Jon is going to win the game on his next turn." I dunno, maybe that's manipulative on some level, but my intention was to help them develop some degree of threat assessment/prioritization.
I'm pretty sure that just teaches them to rely on your threat assessment. Most people need to see the threats pan-out to appreciate them properly. And given that people haven't figured out that letting you die is correct 100% of the time, it's reasonable to suggest your methods may be slowing down their learning.
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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

Appreciate your well thought out response @DirkGently
I think if I get deleted from the game at the start, Jon wins 95% of those games against James just based on card power (with these decks, at least). So great for Jon, probably not so much for James. My path is frequently (as somewhat detailed above) to help James stop Jon, then win the 1v1 against him. If James spurns my help, we both just lose.

My opinion is that one of the biggest issues Jon needs to deal with in order to win more often is to stop completely giving up as soon as he encounters setbacks. So many games he just shuts down because his big cool engine got blown up, and if he just sucked it up, dusted himself off, and got back into the game he'd realize that he still has a perfectly reasonable chance to win. I've had games where he concedes, and I'll show him how his hand has all the tools to mount a comeback. But he didn't get to win exactly the way he wanted to with no pushback, so he sulks.
Not sure that there's a solid answer here. Is it possible to get a 4th in your pod that way it isn't just always you and James vs Jon? That's the only thing that jumps out at me. Sounds like the saltier he gets the more he's going to power creep his deck and it'll just make the situation worse.

Do you you have a deck that's roughly as scary as Jon's but easily disrupted? A big creatures go brrrrrrrr deck, not your usual style. Just something that is marginally scarier than Jon's deck so they can gang up on you. That's a really hard line to tread since they're both such weak players. Just thinking you could example how to bin a bunch of big cool looking dragons/hydras/leviathans without getting salty about it.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Also pertaining to the above, its possible that Jon is using big setup cards that have their payoff too slow while also projecting what is going to happen. What do I mean by this? Generally anything that the full setup is to have 7+ mana to play to have a positive result is too slow to me. In this regard I mean things like expensive mana doubler effects that often tap you out and project what is happening. These big splashy engines are too slow and sort of give off a vibe of whats going to happen. In short I am saying to keep it simpler. Try to look at setups where commander + a card results in a good outcome rather than complicating things by spending a whole turn resolving a card that needs to be there the next turn to do anything or be combined with ludicrous amounts of mana.

Jon sounds like a cool person but also they sound like a timmy who is assembling big sweet engines of death while their spike opponents efficiently dismantle them. Jon probably needs to focus on more standalone card setups and possibly bring the overall mana cost to assemble down. I agree with matterpillar's suggestion of getting a 4th+ player to help offset for him and put less pressure on just him and how he wants to ally.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

ONE seems like it could be a really good limited set to me. Prerelease was a blast (3-0 naturally, not that you asked). I really think toxic is a huge improvement over infect for limited.

Milled someone 21 cards with Jace, the Perfected Mind. That was cool.

Tragically with my family in town, I can't really justify doing more than 1. But damn I really want to.

@materpillar the most common scenario for us is that I'm almost always down, Jon is almost always down, and everyone else (primarily james and mike but other people come and go) are available randomly but somewhat rarely...lot of posts in the group chat along the lines of:

Jon: magic?
me: (thumbsup)
everyone else: crickets...

So 4p comes together quite rarely. It is typically more fun, though, 4p gives everyone a bit more space. 3 ur-dragons + miirym is still probably a game-winning board state in 4p, but it's not QUITE as forgone a conclusion as 3p.

Interesting idea, but they're typically somewhat lighter on answers than my decks so I think it's likely I end up steamrolling with a battlecruiser-y deck. It would be good to create a similar, but reversed, situation though, so I like that idea. I start off as the big bad and get knocked down a peg, and Jon gets to be part of the team rather than consistently the opposing threat. I think something aggro probably makes the most sense for such a thing - aggro but with very little rebound if it gets blown up. Maybe Captain Ripley Vance? Or Hallar, the Firefletcher? Open to suggestions.

I still think it's ultimately dependent on Jon playing something less on-board and high-powered (relatively-speaking) as his dragons deck, since out-threatening that deck would require me to play something pretty high-powered and probably end with me steamrolling. But I really like the idea.

Since I didn't really respond to @toctheyounger, I definitely agree re: farts in libraries. His good decks are never good because they have subtlety, durability, or a strong long-term plan. He wants to play out something scary fast, and then nobody to have an answer, and then him to win. That's the ideal Jon game.

@ISBPathfinder I think you could fill a book with ways to improve Jon's deckbuilding and strategy and basically everything, but actually getting him to change anything is a bit like trying to steer a cruise ship with a paddle. It might happen eventually, but don't expect any results fast.

Curious what you mean by "a cool person" lol.
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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

Problem with aggro is if they don't have a wrath you're just going to pull out the gates and murder them and it'll feel bad. My first thought was Admiral Beckett Brass because you can over extended to get her steal effect without actually having a good board state. But it'll feel really threatening if you're taking their dragons or whatever. Then they just need to kill your commander / Whispersilk Cloak or what have you to put the breaks on. They'll also have a lot more turns to put the breaks on unless James just literally keeps donating you dragons without thinking at all. Downsides: you hate tribal, James might flip a table if you steal his dragon every turn.

You could also try Braids, Conjurer Adept and try to out Timmy him with massive fish. None of that fancy phase braids out so only I get the trigger. Straight my Darksteel Colossus is bigger than your dragons. Just drop the biggest slabs of beef you can until they're dead. Extra points for this actually getting James to have more of his stuff in play.
Last edited by materpillar 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@materpillar I do think it's best that my paper tiger fold to spot removal rather than a wipe, to make it as likely as possible to happen. Ofc we can't be at least a bit of a tiger without the possibility of actually devouring someone if nobody has any answers, but such is life.

I think Olivia Voldaren fits better as a theft option since she has to return what she steals if she dies. However I do worry that having repeatable theft on tap will mean it's too easy to neutralize decks by stealing their commanders or whatever. But it's still probably preferrable to perma-stealing with brass which might shut them down permanently-ish.

Anyway I have a list of solid options I think, which I made a decklist thread for. Suggestions welcome ofc.
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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

@DirkGently I was editing my post. In case you missed it, Braids, Conjurer Adept big beef might be a solid choice too. Can get yourself a high threat profile pretty easily in a fairly preventable way with the threat looking bigger than it actually is.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
@ISBPathfinder I think you could fill a book with ways to improve Jon's deckbuilding and strategy and basically everything, but actually getting him to change anything is a bit like trying to steer a cruise ship with a paddle. It might happen eventually, but don't expect any results fast.

Curious what you mean by "a cool person" lol.
I like casual players who really enjoy the game. It is hard to help them but I also think they ultimately make the game better for everyone. I recently moved to some new metas that in multiple locations I have people who build actual cEDH or psudo cEDH decks. The frustrating part is they don't really say anything about the power level they are playing to so you just blindly go from a casual deck to super not ok without any real communication. One of them keeps making those horrible decks then when prompted about his deck he usually responds that its new and he didn't optimize it then he plays his deck on turn 4 and I am like...... yea ok stop it.

It can be a pain dealing with players you are trying to help be less casual but it can also be a pain with those that go the other way. Jon sounds like he is having fun with what he is trying to do even if its not working and I think the game is healthier when people do this even if it can be frustrating from a power perspective.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@materpillar that might work, but it also can hugely accelerate other people I.e. Jon. Krakens vs ur-dragon I'm definitely giving ur-dragon the edge. It's also a deck that needs wiping more so than spot removal since its threats are distributed.

@ISBPathfinder Lol, well I'm glad he mostly hasn't gotten too close to cEDH, but he's definitely the least restrained of our group. To me, James is much more the "I just have fun playing the game and don't really care for power" kinda guy. Also he's not a whiner when he gets targeted.
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Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by Dragonlover » 1 year ago

Gotta love it when you update a decklist and then notice its at 101 cards. I'd miscounted a few updates ago, put an extra card in and not noticed until today.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Dragonlover wrote:
1 year ago
Gotta love it when you update a decklist and then notice its at 101 cards. I'd miscounted a few updates ago, put an extra card in and not noticed until today.

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Post by Dragonlover » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
Dragonlover wrote:
1 year ago
Gotta love it when you update a decklist and then notice its at 101 cards. I'd miscounted a few updates ago, put an extra card in and not noticed until today.

Dragonlover
relatable, happens all the time
What I don't understand is how it was sleeved at 101 cards. I must have been resleeving at the same time or something.

Got everything I wanted for my decks from the set across five prereleases and a couple of trades, so I'm pretty happy. Also someone sold an Ancient Copper Dragon to the LGS today so I grabbed that while it was there, straight into Lathliss it goes.

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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

Huh, turns out Shorikai, Genesis Engine is a pretty good card. Who knew

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Post by tstorm823 » 1 year ago

duducrash wrote:
1 year ago
Huh, turns out Shorikai, Genesis Engine is a pretty good card. Who knew
I'm about to build that deck.
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

duducrash wrote:
1 year ago
Huh, turns out Shorikai, Genesis Engine is a pretty good card. Who knew
It's widely thought of as the best Azorius commander in cEDH. Not being a creature but also being a commander is real strong. But yeah it's strong in casual too.
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
It's widely thought of as the best Azorius commander in cEDH
Yeah it's kinda bananas in casual too tbh. Make a body filter cards graveyard shenanigans mana efficient. Dying to Hour of Revelation is the only real mark against it.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
It's widely thought of as the best Azorius commander in cEDH
Yeah it's kinda bananas in casual too tbh. Make a body filter cards graveyard shenanigans mana efficient. Dying to Hour of Revelation is the only real mark against it.
Ah yes, "dies to removal" lol

MOST commander's die to Hour of Revelation.
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
MOST commander's die to Hour of Revelation.
Truth :) But not Ephara, God of the Polis. Get wrecked ya dirty garbage truck. :shakesfist:

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

I briefly built an Athreos, Shroud-Veiled that was just like all of the wrath creatures. People........ didn't like playing against it so that died lol. There was a game where I saced and re flipped Massacre Girl 4 turns in a row and after that the deck had to be taken out back and put down. I am convinced that there is a magical limit in the number and frequency you can sweep before everyone wishes you weren't playing at their table.
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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
I am convinced that there is a magical limit in the number and frequency you can sweep before everyone wishes you weren't playing at their table.
I have 12 ways to sweep in my Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage planeswalkers deck, 13 with Elspeth, Sun's Champion and ways to cast them back. Its not a deck I can bring to every random table, but when the time is right I bring it back and it's fun gameplay! I'm trying to go harder on vehicles now because they don't die to most sweepers



edit: one more with the new wanderer coming

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Post by EonAon » 1 year ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
I briefly built an Athreos, Shroud-Veiled that was just like all of the wrath creatures. People........ didn't like playing against it so that died lol. There was a game where I saced and re flipped Massacre Girl 4 turns in a row and after that the deck had to be taken out back and put down. I am convinced that there is a magical limit in the number and frequency you can sweep before everyone wishes you weren't playing at their table.
its about 5 times in a row right? If your feeling generous every second turn just to make people say ugh.... :)

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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

One thing i've realized all these years with you nerds :P is that there still isn't one true way to build a deck or card evaluations. And I think that's beautiful.
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Post by folding_music » 1 year ago

early tonight ordered 1x Razortide Bridge, 1x Experimental Augury, 5x Goblin Cannon. lol. I hope the recipient is pleasantly baffled

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Post by Dragonlover » 1 year ago

Ngl, if I was pulling that the five copies of Goblin Cannon would baffle me.

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