Will & Rowan Kenrith - Sparks of Ice and Fire (Superfriends)
@darrenhabib I just wanna thank you for this awesome primer.
I was wondering with the new set releasing did you saw any new addition to your list in Innistrad: Midnight Hunt?
I was wondering with the new set releasing did you saw any new addition to your list in Innistrad: Midnight Hunt?
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- darrenhabib
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Hi, no there doesn't seem to be anything of note to enhance the build from the new set. I can do with not spending money at the moment anyway lol.
- darrenhabib
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Hello, I have taken a hiatus from Magic in general. So I'm in the boat that if people have suggestions from recent sets then it would be much appreciated.
One card I'm excited about in New Capenna is Luxior, Giada's Gift. The number one way that planeswalkers are removed is through creature attacks still in multiplayer, so although it then makes it susceptible to creature removal, I still think the upside of not being able to be attacked makes this a very powerful addition.
As such I'd also add Urza's Saga as an additional way to get it, and turn one Saga can result in a Turn 3 Rowan or Will.
Otawara, Soaring City seems like a good inclusion, with just Mystic Sanctuary being the only downside to this.
Sokenzan, Crucible of Defiance could be a card to try, I'm not so sure about this one, but let's say an opponent has calculated their attacks and you can generate blockers for say with two planeswalkers on the field, it could be a game winning move. I'll give it a test.
Tezzeret, Betrayer of Flesh seems like a decent planeswalker. You can reduce the mana activation for Rings of Brighthearth, The Chain Veil. You can untap Grim Monolith and Basalt Monolith one time each turn for additional mana, and it allows you to spin Sensei's Divining Top each turn (with investing mana) to annoy your opponents each turn lol. At this stage however can't seem to find a slot for it.
But yeah, excited to hear if anybody has any suggestions, it's been a long time since I've picked up the deck.
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Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the channel lands don't get reduced by Planeswalkers if I was reading you logic right. Only Legendary Creatures. I just finished building the deck in paper (well I still need volcanic island but I'll make do with a basic land instead) it's been a blast.
- darrenhabib
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Ah true. I'll still think the Otawara, Soaring City is worth it, and I'll give Sokenzan, Crucible of Defiance a try although I'd say it be pretty minimal when you'd use it for the creatures.Temptsu wrote: ↑1 year agoHate to be the bearer of bad news but the channel lands don't get reduced by Planeswalkers if I was reading you logic right. Only Legendary Creatures. I just finished building the deck in paper (well I still need volcanic island but I'll make do with a basic land instead) it's been a blast.
I don't know how to link cards but how many Displacer Kitten are we playing? Card seems great.
Refreshes walkers and rocks on casting a noncreature, blinks out our etb creatures.
I'd lovw to try it out when I get all the cards together but I'm waiting for the "it's win more" to knock me down a peg
Refreshes walkers and rocks on casting a noncreature, blinks out our etb creatures.
I'd lovw to try it out when I get all the cards together but I'm waiting for the "it's win more" to knock me down a peg
- darrenhabib
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I've drafted up a deck that specially designed around Displacer Kitten with Prime Speaker Vannifar at the helm so that I have a way to search it up. The idea is to keep blinking out Spellseeker, Eternal Witness (and Trinket Mage). Spellseeker can just keep churning through cards and providing answers, and then Eternal Witness to just keep buying them back.jr2694 wrote: ↑1 year agoI don't know how to link cards but how many Displacer Kitten are we playing? Card seems great.
Refreshes walkers and rocks on casting a noncreature, blinks out our etb creatures.
I'd lovw to try it out when I get all the cards together but I'm waiting for the "it's win more" to knock me down a peg
I think that just blinking Will each time to [-2] would be powerful enough, so the "best" build for this deck might be a deck with more instants and sorcery. However mana (colored) is going to be a bottle neck for any deck, and so being able to blink Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Teferi, Temporal Archmage, Tezzeret the Seeker, Gilded Lotus or even some of the coloress mana sources does have an appeal.
Goes infinite with Cloudstone Curio wtih a number of combination of cards. Infinite coloress mana with Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, etc.
Going to definitely use (abuse) it in this deck.
- darrenhabib
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It has been a minute since I've played the deck. Just been going over PW now trying to get a handle on "newbies".
Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim represents a boat load of loyalty, but the ultimate only targeting a single player probably isn't going to cut it.
The new Jace, the Perfected Mind can be cast for with Will cost reduction but for the current configuration it doesn't really do much.
Very interesting card! I did play Flux Channeler and even Inexorable Tide at one stage but I did find them a bit slow. Obviously Flux Channeler being a creature was a nonbo with the mass creature removal as well.
Ichormoon Gauntlet does lend to having more cheap spells in order to be better.
The "0 Proliferate" added to planeswalkers is game plan to getting Rowan to her ultimate. I doubt the 12 will be an early goal as not even a Deepglow Skate can get a walker there in one go.
I like the "0 Proliferate" with Teferi, Master of Time as you can add 4 loyalty to planeswalkers in a 4 players game each turn cycle.
It makes Rowan, Scholar of Sparks // Will, Scholar of Frost better as her +1 basically does nothing. Narset, Parter of Veils get to plus which is nice.
- darrenhabib
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Great question! No, even though it does have the potential to win cEDH games, I personally think the mana cost average of the deck is a little high to be consistently winning against large amounts of stax which you should see at cEDH tables. Not that you don't have the tools to fight through them, it's just that on average a lower costing deck is going to be able to deploy their strategy better. I have very high standards to what I consider a cEDH deck to put it in perspective. I'd say this deck is an 8/10 and I'd only consider 9 and 10s to be cEDH.
Quite simply the price to pay for trying to do something a little different to other decks is that you'll never be quite top-tier deck imo. There are no planeswalkers as main winning conditions in the cEDH database at the moment. https://cedh-decklist-database.com
- darrenhabib
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I have Magic Online so I have all my decks in digital form there.
I feel like https://tappedout.net/ or https://www.moxfield.com/ are the two most popular deck building sites.
- darrenhabib
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Yes, it's definitely going in. It has everything this deck wants. At this stage it'll probably replace Ugin, the Ineffable, but just waiting for all of March of the Machines to be spoiled before posting changes
Happy to see that this thread is alive again.
- darrenhabib
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Well besides Chandra, Hope's Beacon the only other card that I was trying to evaluate from the set is Teferi's Talent.
The -12 Teferi emblem is literally my favorite to get in games, it's just so much fun to activate planeswalkers every turn and wins the game quick as well.
Using the draw to try and get a planeswalker to ultimate (i.e. Rowan) is a plan, however the fact that its a 5 mana enchantment so doesn't benefit from Will cost reduction is a big deal. I think in practice it would just be too mana intensive to get both planeswalker and Teferi's Talent while also protecting at the same time.
The -12 Teferi emblem is literally my favorite to get in games, it's just so much fun to activate planeswalkers every turn and wins the game quick as well.
Using the draw to try and get a planeswalker to ultimate (i.e. Rowan) is a plan, however the fact that its a 5 mana enchantment so doesn't benefit from Will cost reduction is a big deal. I think in practice it would just be too mana intensive to get both planeswalker and Teferi's Talent while also protecting at the same time.
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- darrenhabib
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Same as Teferi's Talent you don't get the cost reduction, so 4 mana is overcosted for the ability imo.
The [+1] doesn't do anything for the deck either The other problem is that you can easily get 2-for-1 as well, as it's an Aura so removal of the planeswalker gets 2 cards. At least Rings of Brighthearth requires additional removal.
- darrenhabib
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Well I really want to try out Storm of Saruman. Spark Double is such a fun and unique card to the deck and this is one of the few cards that also allows you to copy planeswalkers (and keep them).
Now the "second spell" stipulation means that I want to setup particular sequences to get the benefits.
From my guide you are normally looking to cast Will Kenrith first, so let's say in a game where you have Storm of Saruman at the start of game, you could look to cast it first. But let's quite often the following turn you have 7 mana, you'd want to cast a 0-1 mana card in order to get the trigger to create 2x Will Kenrith. So with this in mind and the more recent additions of Ichormoon Gauntlet and Chandra, Hope's Beacon I want to lean into getting more value from cheap-to-cast instant/sorcery.
The "Ward 3" I do think makes a large difference to how effective this card can be. An opponent perhaps spending their whole turn to remove it is a big factor in perhaps focusing attention elsewhere.
Add
Storm of Saruman
Gitaxian Probe
Ponder
Remove
Gilded Lotus
Jace, Architect of Thought
Magosi, the Waterveil
Now the "second spell" stipulation means that I want to setup particular sequences to get the benefits.
From my guide you are normally looking to cast Will Kenrith first, so let's say in a game where you have Storm of Saruman at the start of game, you could look to cast it first. But let's quite often the following turn you have 7 mana, you'd want to cast a 0-1 mana card in order to get the trigger to create 2x Will Kenrith. So with this in mind and the more recent additions of Ichormoon Gauntlet and Chandra, Hope's Beacon I want to lean into getting more value from cheap-to-cast instant/sorcery.
The "Ward 3" I do think makes a large difference to how effective this card can be. An opponent perhaps spending their whole turn to remove it is a big factor in perhaps focusing attention elsewhere.
Add
Storm of Saruman
Gitaxian Probe
Ponder
Remove
Gilded Lotus
Jace, Architect of Thought
Magosi, the Waterveil
- darrenhabib
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On that note I'm adding Lotus Petal as another enabler.
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Lotus Petal
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Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge