Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@TheAmericanSpirit Goose already mentioned it, but the main thing to keep in mind is that when you search for an answer to a sufficiently threatening thing and reveal to a third player, you're basically guaranteed that pick. So then you can add a double Entomb for whatever works best - usually loam engine but other graveyard-active cards work too.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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AspiringHippo
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Post by AspiringHippo » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
@TheAmericanSpirit Goose already mentioned it, but the main thing to keep in mind is that when you search for an answer to a sufficiently threatening thing and reveal to a third player, you're basically guaranteed that pick. So then you can add a double Entomb for whatever works best - usually loam engine but other graveyard-active cards work too.
What benefits do we have from a double entomb other than loam?

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

AspiringHippo wrote:
1 year ago
What benefits do we have from a double entomb other than loam?
Flashback, aftermath, lands if you already have loam, spells to recur (Mystic Sanctuary for example)…just depends what sort of grave synergy you have.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

Venture Forth — thoughts? I play the blue infinite suspension spell for value, and this one ain't bad.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
Venture Forth — thoughts? I play the blue infinite suspension spell for value, and this one ain't bad.
It's not the huge value that Inspiring Refrain represents, but I think it's about interchangeable with Exploration in terms of average output.
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
Venture Forth — thoughts? I play the blue infinite suspension spell for value, and this one ain't bad.
It's not the huge value that Inspiring Refrain represents, but I think it's about interchangeable with Exploration in terms of average output.
I disagree because Life from the Loam drastically changes the math. That said, I would run neither. The deck is mana hungry, but I would argue that hitting your land drops is more important than trying to ramp inconsistently. A deck is either a ramp deck and wants to run a plethora of it, or isn't, and wants little to none outside of the ol' Ring.

I'm thinking of cutting Loam entirely and playing Crucible of Worlds instead. Yeah, it's much easier to get rid of and yeah, it doesn't play well with cycling lands, but it has two key advantages: it costs significantly less mana to maintain, and it doesn't reveal information to opponents.

I'm also likely going to try Sensei's Divining Top now that I have fetches. In fact, Brokkos ended up being really lame, so I'm going to update my Phelddy list right now.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
Venture Forth — thoughts? I play the blue infinite suspension spell for value, and this one ain't bad.
It's not the huge value that Inspiring Refrain represents, but I think it's about interchangeable with Exploration in terms of average output.
I disagree because Life from the Loam drastically changes the math. That said, I would run neither. The deck is mana hungry, but I would argue that hitting your land drops is more important than trying to ramp inconsistently. A deck is either a ramp deck and wants to run a plethora of it, or isn't, and wants little to none outside of the ol' Ring.

I'm thinking of cutting Loam entirely and playing Crucible of Worlds instead. Yeah, it's much easier to get rid of and yeah, it doesn't play well with cycling lands, but it has two key advantages: it costs significantly less mana to maintain, and it doesn't reveal information to opponents.

I'm also likely going to try Sensei's Divining Top now that I have fetches. In fact, Brokkos ended up being really lame, so I'm going to update my Phelddy list right now.
I was thinking of it in the vein that I don't always have a second land for Exploration and the fact that neither requires more mana than the initial investment. Getting loam going is obviously huge for Exploration but I do think Venture Forth will accomplish the same net output, i.e. a few extra lands in play, most of the time.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Exploration has way more high roll potential if you need early defenses or have loam, as well as the utility of emptying our hand of lands ASAP. Holding up a 4 card hand with all answers imo looks less threatening and is obviously more powerful, versus holding up a 7 card hand when 3 are lands that you're glutted with. It lets us draw more cards without sitting there with a massive hand, while ofc ensuring that we have tons of mana up.

Without loam I probably wouldn't play it though, as most draw engines won't fill your hand with land as much.

Venture forth is cute but I don't think it really gives us anything we want very badly. Also casting on 4 is a lot, and suspending is really slow to get any return on investment. We're slow but I don't think we're THAT slow. I can see a lot of games where it'll just be a slower Explosive Vegetation, and that's really not something we're remotely in the market for.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Hawk » 1 year ago

I'll let Dirk start a review proper - but what do we think of the "cycle from battlefield" spheres (The Surgical Bay, The Hunter Maze, The Fair Basillica)? For most decks I think these are worse than cycling lands which I already generally only run in cycling or loam decks, but for Phelddy in particular I'm wondering if they're better to hit early drops while caching out later for a real card?

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@Hawk yeah....here's my review of all the ONE cards that are viable in this deck:

[end of review]

The only ones I can imagine someone considering are Staff of Compleation and Vanish into Eternity. Vanish is a decent budget option I guess, Staff seems like too much life loss and the non-draw modes are pretty useless.

As far as the lands, we've already had Gates of Istfell, Memorial to Genius, Blighted Cataract, Cryptic Caves, Waterlogged Grove, Botanical Plaza (and other snc duals). All those either cost less to draw, or draw more cards, or provide fixing. We haven't had this exact configuration before, but I don't think it has much to offer that other options don't.

I used to run memorial/cataract, and my assessment was that I basically never wanted to sacrifice them. Most of the deck's dedicated draw engines work more off having more mana, so trading lands for draw is only hurting ourselves long-term. There's also little practical limit to how much mana we want - by endgame, paying 5 for a board wipe, even if we can still keep 2 answers up, can feel risky.

So yeah, unless someone wants to disagree, I think this set is a total bust. Really the only one I can see an argument for is Vanish.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Hawk » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
@Hawk yeah....here's my review of all the ONE cards that are viable in this deck:

[end of review]

The only ones I can imagine someone considering are Staff of Compleation and Vanish into Eternity. Vanish is a decent budget option I guess, Staff seems like too much life loss and the non-draw modes are pretty useless.

As far as the lands, we've already had Gates of Istfell, Memorial to Genius, Blighted Cataract, Cryptic Caves, Waterlogged Grove, Botanical Plaza (and other snc duals). All those either cost less to draw, or draw more cards, or provide fixing. We haven't had this exact configuration before, but I don't think it has much to offer that other options don't.

I used to run memorial/cataract, and my assessment was that I basically never wanted to sacrifice them. Most of the deck's dedicated draw engines work more off having more mana, so trading lands for draw is only hurting ourselves long-term. There's also little practical limit to how much mana we want - by endgame, paying 5 for a board wipe, even if we can still keep 2 answers up, can feel risky.

So yeah, unless someone wants to disagree, I think this set is a total bust. Really the only one I can see an argument for is Vanish.
Good point on the lands.

I think you undersell Vanish into Eternity - I'd put it as probably the best or second best non-creature-kill spell available, honestly. Nature's Claim or Krosan Grip are probably slightly better than this in a cEDH format, but I like this a lot more than Return to Nature, Wilt, and Forsake the Worldly. Basically, this looks like solid gold staple if you compare it to that stuff instead of comparing it to Beast Within/Generous Gift, and I know I'll be adding it.

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Hawk wrote:
1 year ago
Good point on the lands.

I think you undersell Vanish into Eternity - I'd put it as probably the best or second best non-creature-kill spell available, honestly. Nature's Claim or Krosan Grip are probably slightly better than this in a cEDH format, but I like this a lot more than Return to Nature, Wilt, and Forsake the Worldly. Basically, this looks like solid gold staple if you compare it to that stuff instead of comparing it to Beast Within/Generous Gift, and I know I'll be adding it.
I think it's a solid budget option, nothing wrong with it. I like return to nature more, though, for costing less and being able to hit something it can't, namely cards in graveyards which we otherwise don't have a ton of interaction against. Wilt and Forsake I've never really liked because the decision to cycle isn't a clear one for this deck, unless you're literally digging for an answer you need immediately or you'll die.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Hawk » 11 months ago

MoM is upon us. As a combat-centric set introducing the battle type, not a lot here for us but a few things caught my eye and I wanted to talk to the Cult of the Hippo about them.

- Sunfall is absurd, right? Seems like it strictly-betters Hallowed Burial and Final Judgment and functionally betters Phyrexian Rebirth as well as competing well with Farewell. Even with it being so strong though, not sure we want it. A massive 9/9 or whatever egg is gonna attract attention, and the last few years have run our cup over with tons of incredible boardwipes. It's more just crazy to me how stacked the boardwipe slot has become in the last 3 years.

- Excise the Imperfect is a card I'm weirdly down on and I don't know why? I've joked I'd run 15 Generous Gifts if I were allowed to. This is worse than gift, but it's not that much worse...something about it just feels off. I think its that a 6/6 is a real body for opponents and I don't look forward to giving them one when I have to nuke Bolas's Citadel or whatever.

- Change the Equation got a bit of a shout in the reveal threads for control decks, but I'm not seeing it. I wouldn't run Spell Snare except in the most hyper-cEDH of metas and this feels like a sidegrade to that spell. If your meta is nothing but red and/or green players maybe this gets an add?

- Atraxa's Fall is probably not worth it compared to all the great 2MV enchantment/artifact removal out there, but if Battles end up being everywhere this may be worth it even at sorcery speed? I'm not running it, but it's a budget option.


...and that's the list?

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Post by Dunadain » 11 months ago

I thin Excise the Imperfect is amazing, and everything else is terrible XD.
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Post by DirkGently » 11 months ago

I agree with @Dunadain. Yes the token having >3 power potentially sucks but it also eats two mana to use it. And I think exiling > hitting lands. Two white is minor. It's pretty on-par with gift imo, but having more exile removal definitely doesn't hurt for diversity.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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TheAmericanSpirit
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 11 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
11 months ago
RIP Council's Judgment. Long live Excise the Imperfect.
I dunno about that. Excise is really good, but CJ gets around targeting, which has saved my bacon a few times. I think it's actually quite close which is overall best-in-slot.
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(Except when DirkGently makes them!)

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Dunadain
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Post by Dunadain » 11 months ago

Wait, are y'all running Council's Judgment? Lol

I take instant speed very seriously
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 11 months ago

Opened a full art excise. Into Phelddagrif with ye. Cutting is so hard with this deck though.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by illakunsaa » 9 months ago

I gotta ask. Isn't Derevi just better? Lot of her abilities are similar to hippo but you don't have to pay mana for them.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 9 months ago

illakunsaa wrote:
9 months ago
I gotta ask. Isn't Derevi just better? Lot of her abilities are similar to hippo but you don't have to pay mana for them.
I think you've missed a few points. Go read the first two paragraphs of the primer and you'll answer your own question.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

@illakunsaa Not really sure what you mean tbh, besides flying and being difficult to kill Derevi doesn't bear any resemblance to Phelddagrif.

The reason Phelddagrif helms this deck is for his ability to bargain with tokens/life/cards, and to assist weaker players while the answer-laden deck weakens others. Derevi can't do either of those things.

Derevi is also pretty low impact without additional creatures, which means dedicating more slots, which means weakening the control elements of the deck.

And he's not a good standalone wincon either with only 2 power vs Phelddagrif's 4.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

illakunsaa
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Post by illakunsaa » 9 months ago

You can use Derevi to tap down blockers/attackers and (un)tap mana sources. This is roughly the same as giving cards and tokens. I've been playing a Derevi voltron turbofog and it is practically creatureless. It is fairly similar to this list but instead of generic control cards I run fogs (I've found out that if you don't die you don't need to remove anything). Derevi's power doesn't matter that much as usually opponents don't have answers so they just concede. I do run Noble Heritage and Lion Sash as a way to increase the clock.

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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

@illakunsaa Even if you have a sac outlet so that you can recast Derevi to use him on demand, rather than on your own combat step, you're paying 4 for each mana you donate, and I don't think untapping creatures is remotely equal to giving tokens to block with since it requires existing board state. Sac outlets in lands are all 1-use as well, so if you want to fully exploit him you'd need to run a sufficient number of cards that are only sac outlets which complicates the deck. Phelddagrif works at high efficiency with zero setup required.

Tapping down attackers isn't very effective imo since it requires that you do it before you know which way they're pointing, and you're usually happy so long as they're pointed at someone else. You can ask, ofc, but that gets really tedious and you come across like a really obvious control threat. Much better to just let them swing where they may, and if they come at you and they're big enough to be a problem, then you blow them up and make them wish they hadn't.

Fogs are okay but I don't love them. Two reasons: 1, because they aren't effective against many archetypes. Removal is much more versatile. 2, because the attacker doesn't usually lose much. You want people to think twice about attacking you. Dropping constant fogs just makes people want to hurry up and push through them. Dropping removal makes them want to avoid attacking you altogether.

Finally, Derevi is a well-known high powered commander. People will rightly view you as a threat from the start. Phelddagrif is generally not considered threatening, which is important when you're trying not to attract attention.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Guess I'll do a quick review for LotR:

Reprieve is ok but I wasn't playing Remand so I don't need a duplicate (albeit slightly stronger since it evades uncounterables)

Rivendell is...fine? I think the utility lands have probably moved past it in power level, but it does tap for colored mana so it's not awful.

The Shire is in a similar boat, but I think less interesting.

Sadly we can't really activate Minas Tirith.

So yeah, bit of a bucket of nothing as expected.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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