Emiel the Blessed, ETB tool box

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Ruiner
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Post by Ruiner » 1 year ago

I've considered adding some dungeon shenanigans to my Emiel deck as well, since it wouldn't be unreasonable to advance through a few rooms per turn.

I do have a dedicated Dungeons deck, based around Rilsa Rael, Kingpin, and in my experience the original dungeons absolutely pale in comparison to The Undercity. The original dungeons are just okay for some small benefits. Every path on the Undercity is fairly useful to some degree (although admittedly the +1/+1 counters are probably less impressive in an Emiel deck, other than maybe angling for a commander damage kill). Dungeons can be pretty impressive, although I Ieverage them strongly due to my deck being an infect based deck.

Nadaar, Selfless Paladin is a non-initiative dungeon creature I'd consider. He comes down for fairly cheap and goes through dungeons himself pretty decently. If I were to consider adding Dungeons to my Emiel deck I'd probably make room for him.

Defending the initiative might not be as tough as you think. You can blink to get it back if the appropriate creatures are in play, and if not, you can probably just blink creature based removal if your opponent happens to have blockers. Aggro decks tend to be the ones that take it from you, and unless the entire table is aggro decks it is probably just one or two players trying to get it.

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

My son got to play the first Craterhoof Behemoth of his magic career with this deck on Saturday. 129 trample damage, all coming at dad.

Had to coach him on his use of Green Sun's Zenith - but I think he's going to know what to go for in the future when he's got the mana :D

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Ruiner wrote:
1 year ago
I've considered adding some dungeon shenanigans to my Emiel deck as well, since it wouldn't be unreasonable to advance through a few rooms per turn.

I do have a dedicated Dungeons deck, based around Rilsa Rael, Kingpin, and in my experience the original dungeons absolutely pale in comparison to The Undercity. The original dungeons are just okay for some small benefits. Every path on the Undercity is fairly useful to some degree (although admittedly the +1/+1 counters are probably less impressive in an Emiel deck, other than maybe angling for a commander damage kill). Dungeons can be pretty impressive, although I Ieverage them strongly due to my deck being an infect based deck.

Nadaar, Selfless Paladin is a non-initiative dungeon creature I'd consider. He comes down for fairly cheap and goes through dungeons himself pretty decently. If I were to consider adding Dungeons to my Emiel deck I'd probably make room for him.

Defending the initiative might not be as tough as you think. You can blink to get it back if the appropriate creatures are in play, and if not, you can probably just blink creature based removal if your opponent happens to have blockers. Aggro decks tend to be the ones that take it from you, and unless the entire table is aggro decks it is probably just one or two players trying to get it.
Yeah, I looked at Nadaar, Selfless Paladin, but as you said, the dungeons are weak sauce compared to the Undercity.
Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
My son got to play the first Craterhoof Behemoth of his magic career with this deck on Saturday. 129 trample damage, all coming at dad.

Had to coach him on his use of Green Sun's Zenith - but I think he's going to know what to go for in the future when he's got the mana :D
Hell yeah! May he cast many more as he continues to play!
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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Set Review! I'll admit, I haven't even played this deck once since the last set review (barely played mtg in general) but I want to keep the lists that I actually play up to date, so I'm still going to make these

Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines People were freaking out about this card for some reason. TBH, I think whether or not you should run it is a meta call. We don't run Panharmonicon already, and I'm not sure stapling it to a creature and adding 1 MV to it makes it much better. However, if you expect to get even moderate use out of the second ability, then it becomes a lot more attractive.

It's important to note this card can backfire. First of all, it turns all of your opponents tap lands into untapped lands, which isn't a huge deal, but could be. Second of all, You're going to be miserable if your opponents manage to Clone/ Bribery/Dominate it. This deck is constructed a lot more responsibly than most ETB decks, so you do have ways to remove it, but it's not going to be pretty.

Therefore if clone/theft effects are uncommon in your format and ETB effects are, than I'd run this card, if either of those is untrue, I think I'd leave it at home. Having said that, my meta fits the bill pretty well, so I think I'll be cutting Cavalier of Dawn and adding Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines.

The Eternal Wanderer, I was unimpressed the first time I read it, as I didn't really pay attention to starting loyalty and loyalty ability costs, I assumed it was like most other PWs where you had to ramp up to the ultimate over a couple turns, but the fact that she can wipe the board the turn you play her AND stick around is wild. Couple that with the fact that her +1 is actually really relevant for this deck, and I think we've got a keeper. Oh yeah, she also has a great static ability to help keep her alive. Yes please.

I've said before that this deck is well suited to protecting PWs and the deck really benefits from the long-term value they provide, So I'm excited to see a new addition. I think I'll cut Summoner's Pact the green creature only clause really hurts, heck even Green Sun's Zenith is sus because of that clause, but Pact is obviously the worse of the two, so farewell.

Mondrak, Glory Dominus allows our token producers to go into overdrive, but it's probably just a win-more.

Vanish into Eternity I'm known for preffering the most flexible removal I can find, so I quite like this card, I don't think it's better than Generous Gift or Beast Within, not by a long shot, but if I want more flexible removal, I could see cutting Swords to Plowshares for this one.

I'm not going to run it at the moment, but I'll keep an eye on it.

White Sun's Twilight, the tokens aren't all that exciting, they are only any good if we are also getting the wipe to clear the way for some cheesy wins. So really it's a 7 mana wipe that then gives you some tokens, which is not a new effect, and not a very useful effect in this deck.

Conduit of Worlds. I've never put much thought into either Crucible of Worlds nor Ramunap Excavator, but this one does that while also being a repeatable recursion engine. I really like the card design, but whether it actually belongs in this deck I am unsure of.

Green Sun's Twilight is an interesting math problem, we have quite a few nonland, noncreature cards, so we'd need to keep the X value pretty high, plus we aren't really trying to cheat anything huge into play, so I don't think it's worth it.



And that's all folks! Two exciting additions and a couple niche considerations, not a bad set for this deck overall.
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Post by Artaud » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
it turns all of your opponents tap lands into untapped lands
Lands ETB tapped not because of trigger but static ability so new Elesh doesn't backfire at that.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Artaud wrote:
1 year ago
Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
it turns all of your opponents tap lands into untapped lands
Lands ETB tapped not because of trigger but static ability so new Elesh doesn't backfire at that.
Ah, true good catch, my other points still stand XD
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Post by lantz » 1 year ago

This deck looks like a lot of fun. I threw together my own version. The main difference is I went with a mana dork ramp package. The idea is to go from 1 to 3 mana to hit all our Springbloom Druid like cards a turn early. Also they act as fodder for cards like Survival of the Fittest and Natural Order.

Since I added more ramp I also added some more bulk in Sun Titan and Sunblast Angel. These guys also give Fierce Empath a few more targets.

Only other card of note I added was Riftsweeper! Just a pet card I really enjoy lol. He plays well with the Incarnation and can get back a lost win con in a pinch


The list:
Decklist

# Commander (1)

Approximate Total Cost:

I still need to get a Finale of Devastation. I cut White Plume Adventurer just bc I hate keeping track of initiative lol. Smothering Tithe just seemed slow for ramp. Equipment seems like it could be awkward and I'm just not sure what to cut for Brutalizer Exarch.

Anyway sweet list, look forward to hearing about any updates you make.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

@lantz,

List looks pretty clean. I have gone on record many times saying I don't like mana dorks in edh, (tbh, I keep meaning to cut the birds) having said that, going hard the other direction to make the Farhaven Elfs more consistent actually makes a lot of sense to me. I think of you go that route you should go a bit heavier on the Farhaven Elf effects (I have a previous post where I list them all and how good I think they are). Additionally I think it's prefer more Farhaven Elf effects to Kodama's Reach and Cultivate. Slightly lower floor, much higher ceiling.


Sunblast Angel looks really bad tbh, but I've never actually played with or against it, so maybe it plays better than it looks. The rest of the top end you've added looks solid though.

Smothering Tithe really needs no introduction, it's not going to ramp our your early value creatures, but it's going to bury your opponents in the late game. Lots of people hate the card though, so I won't judge anyone for not running it.

Sword of Hearth and Home has always been great tbh, I have a mono black Voltron list that doesn't even have any good flicker targets, it's a Sword of the Animist that also flickers a creature. It's not exactly indispensable though.

You probably don't need Brutalizer Exarch tbh, though I'd slip a Demolition Field/Ghost Quarter/Waste Land /Strip Mine (or a couple of those) so you have game against Field of the Dead/Maze's End/Cabal Coffers/etc.
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Post by gummy » 1 year ago

Hello, I'm new here but I've been tuning my Emiel deck for a while so I thought I'd make an account to consult with you all.

Here is my current list:
Decklist

Commander

Approximate Total Cost:

Overall, the main difference between our deck philosophies are in my inclusion of soul sisters and more "catalysts" (as you have called them).

The main reason I've included every soul sister, in addition to two other similar cards, is that I consistently found this deck was extremely lacking in the early game. I often would take so much damage in the early turns on account of only having a wall and a 1/1 (both of which I wanted to keep) as blockers. Then, a low life total cripples me in the late game. Lifegain effects are almost never with a cost, but the soul sisters can gain 50 life in a game AND lower your curve substantially.

I also disagree with your philosophy on catalysts. While I do admit that there is a high degree of risk, they give some much needed speed to your game plan. In the scenario you previously referenced, where you have Wall of Omens and Emiel the Blessed on board and Panharmonicon in hand along with 7, playing Panharmonicon does put you down one card (as you would pay 6 to draw 2 vs paying 4 to cast Panharmonicon and 3 to draw 2). However, that is a risk that is well worth the possibility of untapping with it. Unlike other do-nothings, (Sheoldred, Whispering One, for example) where you're just tapping out to get blown out by a removal spell, losing your turn and a card, you have already recouped most of the value you had given up. Meanwhile, if you make it to your next turn with the catalyst on the board, you get to drown your opponents in value. In my opinion, the risk of "lose one card" is well worth the reward of "accelerate my game plan twofold". Wilderness Reclamation follows a similar principle, where you don't have to give up your turn to play the card as you get the mana back immediately.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Welcome @gummy!

Your lists looks good. It's interesting that you say Panharmonicon provides speed when, in my humble opinion, it's kind of the opposite, you are slowing down by not playing something more immediately relevant and trading that speed for a more powerful engine later down the line. Honestly, I think that's kind of the recurring theme between our two lists, I don't run Solemn Simulacrum and Primeval Herald because they have such a high MV for a ramp card, you do. I don't run cards like Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward because it takes a long time for it to pay off, but you do, I don't run Nyxbloom Ancient because I don't think I need any more ramp if I've already hit 7 mana, but you do. None of these choices are wrong, you are just building more powerful blink engines and trading time to get there.

I also think that's why the Soul Sisters are working for you, your game plan takes a couple more turns to get set up, so you find yourself taking a lot more damage early game than I do. Personally, I rarely have a problem with fending off opposing decks, I've even considered cutting Thragtusk, which is my trump card against aggressive decks, because I rarely need him to stabilize.

Ultimately, it's a balance that you have to strike, and other people are going to prefer slower, more powerful cards. In the post above yours I suggested someone replace their Kodama's Reach and Cultivate with cards like Topiary Stomper, That's an example of slowing down the deck a little bit in favor of power that I'm comfortable making. Running Panharmonicon or Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward is taking it a step too far for my liking, but it might suit you better.

Also, I think you down played the risk of having a card like Panharmonicon but no etbs worth copying, or a card like Gala Greeters without a blink engine online.

Finally, I had never even thought of running Wilderness Reclamation, but I actually kind of like it, it's much worse than Seedborn Muse, but it still seems decent.

Again, list looks solid though, there isn't any obvious changes I recommend, just depends how lean you want your deck.
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Post by lantz » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
@lantz,

List looks pretty clean. I have gone on record many times saying I don't like mana dorks in edh, (tbh, I keep meaning to cut the birds) having said that, going hard the other direction to make the Farhaven Elfs more consistent actually makes a lot of sense to me. I think of you go that route you should go a bit heavier on the Farhaven Elf effects (I have a previous post where I list them all and how good I think they are). Additionally I think it's prefer more Farhaven Elf effects to Kodama's Reach and Cultivate. Slightly lower floor, much higher ceiling.


Sunblast Angel looks really bad tbh, but I've never actually played with or against it, so maybe it plays better than it looks. The rest of the top end you've added looks solid though.

Smothering Tithe really needs no introduction, it's not going to ramp our your early value creatures, but it's going to bury your opponents in the late game. Lots of people hate the card though, so I won't judge anyone for not running it.

Sword of Hearth and Home has always been great tbh, I have a mono black Voltron list that doesn't even have any good flicker targets, it's a Sword of the Animist that also flickers a creature. It's not exactly indispensable though.

You probably don't need Brutalizer Exarch tbh, though I'd slip a Demolition Field/Ghost Quarter/Waste Land /Strip Mine (or a couple of those) so you have game against Field of the Dead/Maze's End/Cabal Coffers/etc.
I have never actually built a deck using mana dorks, but I'm a big fan of ramping into ramp so 1 to 3 or 2 to 4, being mana efficient in the early turns. Plus the creatures serves several other uses in the deck be it Survival of the Fittest, Craterhoof Behemoth, or just chumping early game. One other thing I noticed people seem to be leaning more towards spot removal over wraths, which favors the dorks.

Def gonna try swapping out Kodama's Reach for either Yavimaya Dryad or Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Nissa, Sage Animist. I dont like that Topiary Stomper cant do anything till late game.

Sunblast Angel is probably bad :cry: it has good synergy but should probably be cut for a better wrath lol. I wanted to run Bane of Progress but should probably use one that deals with creatures. Are u still happy with . Shame Luminate Primordial cost 7 lol.

Still have to think about Sword of Hearth and Home and Smothering Tithe. Seems like they could be slow and clunky just as often as they are good.

Anyway Hoping to get some games in this weekend I will let you know how it goes :)

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

lantz wrote:
1 year ago
I have never actually built a deck using mana dorks, but I'm a big fan of ramping into ramp so 1 to 3 or 2 to 4, being mana efficient in the early turns. Plus the creatures serves several other uses in the deck be it Survival of the Fittest, Craterhoof Behemoth, or just chumping early game. One other thing I noticed people seem to be leaning more towards spot removal over wraths, which favors the dorks.

Def gonna try swapping out Kodama's Reach for either Yavimaya Dryad or Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Nissa, Sage Animist. I dont like that Topiary Stomper cant do anything till late game.

Sunblast Angel is probably bad :cry: it has good synergy but should probably be cut for a better wrath lol. I wanted to run Bane of Progress but should probably use one that deals with creatures. Are u still happy with . Shame Luminate Primordial cost 7 lol.

Still have to think about Sword of Hearth and Home and Smothering Tithe. Seems like they could be slow and clunky just as often as they are good.

Anyway Hoping to get some games in this weekend I will let you know how it goes :)
That all makes sense.

Hour of Revelation is probably the best board wipe ever printed (at least in a 4 player game). We also don't run too many non-creatures permanents, so the wipe that hits everything is much preferred to a Wrath of God.

Sword of Hearth and Home and Smothering Tithe are definitely slow, but they can pull a lot of weight, like I was talking about earlier, it's all a balance, you might find they aren't doing enough for you. I will say, of the two of them, Smothering Tithe is the one I'd cut first.
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Post by Moonlighter » 1 year ago

Deck works as advertised. Becomes hilariously oppressive as the game goes on. I kept flickering Wood Elves whenever Emiel got targeted, and I could afford to pay 10 for her in the late game because I was sitting on so many lands. I ended up 'Hoofing the table, no problem.
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Post by Dunadain » 11 months ago

*Clap* *Clap*
Set Review!

Guardian Scalelord: Not a fan, in general, the backup mechanic is rather clunky with ETB effects, as almost all of them have an "on attack" trigger. Couple that with the fact that green gives us several recursion creatures with no downsides and It's not hard to see why this is a dud.

Conclave Sledge-Captain: Probably the best backup card for this deck, it's nothing too exciting, but it makes a creature absolutely huge. (To my understanding, you can put all the backup triggers on the same creature, and swing with it, you start with 3 +1/+1 the first backup trigger makes it 6, then 12, then 24). Another sub-optimal alternative to Craterhoof Behemoth if you're sick and tired of seeing that card everywhere.

Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus: Sword of the Animist was already playable, and Sword of Hearth and Home is great in this deck. This is fine, but nothing too amazing either.

Guardian of Ghirapur is another "etb blink" creature, whether it's better than current options remains to be seen Flickerwisp and Charming Prince are clearly better, but I'd say it's roughly equal to Glimmerpoint Stag and Restoration Angel.

Scrollshift: I'm mostly off one-use, one-target blink spells, but they become a lot more appealing when they also cantrip

Invasion of Ikoria is very good, it costs one more than Green Sun's Zenith, which is a real downside, but a non-human is (at least in this deck) a lighter restriction than green. The back isn't anything exciting, but it's a big, dumb beater. Also, don't bother flickering it, since X will equal 0 if you do. Probably the best card of the set for us.

Invasion of Ixalan is a green cantrip, that can be flickered to draw more cards after you flip it, repeatedly attacking the battle, just to turn it back into a battle is probably going to make it awkward, but it seems like a decent value engine in the early game, since Emiel the Blessed can knock it out in one hit all on her own.

Invasion of Shandalar: 5 is a lot for a recursion spell, and the backside is an enchantment meaning you can't blink it (if you could, I'd be hype for this). Still, the back allows you to commit to the board while keeping up your mana for interaction. Not bad, not too exciting.

Invasion of Zendikar: I'm not really interested in Explosive Vegetation, does the ability to reuse it make it better? Maybe, it's undeniably a strong ramp engine once you set it up, but it's awfully slow.

Sandstalker Moloch is more expensive then our two mana, draw a card creatures, and it has a restriction, sure it digs deep, but I'm not sold.

Seed of Hope So is green just the new blue now? the chance of whiffing is low, and when it doesn't whiff it's a solid cantrip, but the card is AWFUL if you ever do whiff, and I just don't think it's worth the risk.

Tribute to the World Tree is probably really good, sure a lot of our creatures have power <3, but it's still probably going to draw enough cards to justify.

Vorinclex, never miss a land drop again, and while nothing on the back is a stand-out, it's a lot of value. I'm probably going to run it since I love the design of the new Praetors, but it might not be that good.

And that's all, not a bad set overall.
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Post by Dunadain » 6 months ago

After a long drought I have done a complete over hall of the deck! You can check it out in the OP.

I was surprised how little things changed. I suppose, while they are printing ETB creatures non-stop, it's pretty rare that they print one that's better than all the options already available. I think the only new addition to the ETB creatures worth mentioning is Druid of Purification. I've gone back and forth on Bane of Progress literally since I first created the deck, and this seems like a good compromise. At 4 artifacts blown up each time you flicker, you can pretty easily wipeout all opposing artifacts, but at 4 MV it's a lot more palatable in the early game, and more likely to be available when a must-answer permanent like Bolas's Citadel hits play.

The wipe section is largely unchanged, but I added Tragic Arrogance as a 5th board wipe. The spot was between Tragic Arrogance and Akroma's Vengeance. Decided to give the edge to mana efficiency. Though, there is a new tutorable wipe in the form of Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off. I slightlyt prefer Cataclysmic Gearhulk since late game Cataclysmic Gearhulk locks are a very real thing, but Cast Off does make up for that by being much more thourough.

There has been 2 new removal spells that are generically great and easily made it in: Excise the Imperfect and Stroke of Midnight. in the lategame, our creature ETB effects can remove just about anything, but the regular removal helps us make it there, and deals with evil things like Hushbringer.

As for cuts, I think the two most questionable cuts I made were Avenger of Zendikar and Skyclave Apparition. Avenger of Zendikar is fine, but we have so many tutors that we really only need more than one token producer and, as crazy as it sounds, Hornet Queen has consistently proven to be the better one. Turns out that flying and Deathtouch are more important than numbers or the ability to grow bigger (at least until the VERY late game, at which point most opponents will be locked out and you could probably win with Emiel the Blessed beats). Truthfully, I think you could probably cut all wincons, and just have your win-codition be random creature beat-down once you've locked everyone else out of the game with Palace Jailer/Solitude/Druid of Purification loops, but I like being able to close out the game. Besides, Hornet Queen isn't just a win condition, it's also a great way to keep attackers off your back.

Meanwhile Skyclave Apparition just missed relevant permanents too often.

I got rid of most of the non-creature ramp (besides Sol Ring and Mana Crypt). and put a couple more Farhaven Elf effects back in. Maybe that's just greedy, but truthfully, there's not much of a reason to race to 4 mana with something like Nature's Lore. Obviously 4 mana is the required amount of mana to get Emiel the Blessed down, but I usually am not casting her until a bit later. most of my early plays start at 2 or 3 mana, so ramping from 2 to 4 isn't all that good anyways. Meanwhile, cards like Farhaven Elf have the ability to go crazy in the late game.



Finally, the lands. No more clunky Emeria, the Sky Ruin package, just a bunch of good color fixing and a bunch of good techlands.
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Post by Dunadain » 4 months ago

*Clap* *Clap* Set Review!

Bronzebeak Foragers . Normally, Banishing Lights stapled onto creatures aren't that good for this deck: since your opponents get their stuff back if you try to flicker it, you can only remove whatever the most dangerous thing on the field is. Which isn't a terrible deal, but very lackluster when competing with Palace Jailer and Solitude. However, Bronzebeak Foragers has a second ability that allows you to permanently get rid of the offending cards. Yes it's quite mana intensive, but it's 3 removal spells in one when you fist play it, and you can get some additional value out of it if your willing to cough up the mana. Additionally, it's removal for any non-land permanent which is impressive flexibility.

Coati Scavenger Maybe it deserves a 3. It's so much worse than Eternal Witness, but that's not saying much. Not sure yet how hard it's going to be to get and keep descend 4.

And that's it, lol, kind of a dud for Emiel, but that's okay
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

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Dunadain
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Post by Dunadain » 1 month ago

*Clap* *Clap* Set Review

Novice Inspector: I don't run Thraben Inspector, but it's a reasonable card, and now you can run two of them.

Analyze the Pollen: collect evidence 8 is pretty steep, but it can just be a basic land in a pinch

Archdruid's Charm: It has some impressive flexibility, though realistically, you're gonna choose the first option 9 times out of 10.

Case of the Locked Hothouse: At 4 MV we probably already dumped out all the lands in our hand, still, it might come up. The to-solve is fairly trivally, and afterwards provides some CA

Culvert Ambusher: I'm not excited about this card (and I hate disguise, so I won't be running it anyways) but I think this is the first time we've seen this effect stapled on an ETB?

Glint Weaver: Thragtusk Impersonator, but not as good

Conservatory: A bit slow for this deck, but the baseline of Selesnya Guildgate makes it pretty playable

Innocuous Researcher: Seedborn Muse Imitator, obviously much worse, but that's not saying much, Ii think it's decent

And that's MKM, nothing mind blowing, but a couple cards I'll add and a couple cards that I wouldn't fauly others for running.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!

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