Karador, Ghost Chieftan

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PrimevalCommander
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

This is one of my two oldest decks. Back before commander 2010 I had two commander decks. Intet, the Dreamer and Teneb, the Harvester which were one of an extremely few wedge commanders in their colors at the time, perhaps the only ones. Soon as commander 2010 came out Riku of Two Reflections and Karador, Ghost Chieftain took the helms immediately. Riku has now been dethroned by Kalamax, the Stormsire, but Karador remains my longest running commander and has gone through many a change. Posting this decklist for discussion or questions.

Karador, Ghost Chieftan
Approximate Total Cost:

Going to add a Favorite Cards section to all my decklists just for fun. 5 or less cards and I enjoy drawing the most.
Recent Favorite: Kura, the Boundless Sky because I love tutoring lands in this deck. Gets me almost anything I could need in a game.
Greater Good turns this deck up to 11 by turbo drawing + filling graveyard
Life from the Loam, ensures I hit land drops all game and keeps me flush with sac lands when needed
Diamond Valley gains so much life that opponents don't notice I gained 15+ life in 3 turns and now at 35 wondering why they can't attack me to death.
Tie between Luminous Broodmoth and Doom Whisperer for being great engine cards with low mana value and low set up cost. Solid cards.
Last edited by PrimevalCommander 3 days ago, edited 17 times in total.

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WizardMN
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Post by WizardMN » 1 year ago

I like the list overall. I think there are a few cards I wouldn't be sold on but I can't see many that are just absolutely out of place. It does look like you might be going for more of a controlling game plan with things like Yosei and Mindslicer. I used to have the latter but cut it due to a few reasons. But it does good work.

How good has Martyr's Cause been for you? I can see it being good for a sac outlet at least, but does the damage prevention do a lot? I am wondering if this would just be better as Viscera Seer. Another card that I think ends up being better is Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim over Disciple of Griselbrand. It is almost strictly better and being able to get the white mana over just generic shouldn't be too difficult. I have never liked spending mana to sac my stuff though so I might even look to Yahenni, Undying Partisan as an alternative to them.

We talked about it in my thread, but Yawgmoth, Thran Physician would do good here. And it would work really well with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed if you wanted to add him (and you like that playstyle). Mikaeus also works well with Luminous Broodmoth and Woodfall Primus to loop things.

Oreskos Explorer is probably the one card I would pick out as being the "worst". It is inconsistent enough and isn't actual ramp that I never liked it. I had tried it a long time ago and it never did what I wanted. I think a better alternative is likely just Tithe. It is harder to recur but you always get at least one land, you can time it a bit better to get the second land (and you only need one person with more lands than you to get 2), and it works better in the late game than Explorer as the latter doesn't do much if you get it later and have already ramped a bunch.

Also, you misspelled Yavimaya Granger, Maelstrom Pulse, Altar of Dementia, and Scattered Groves :)

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

WizardMN wrote:
1 year ago
I like the list overall. I think there are a few cards I wouldn't be sold on but I can't see many that are just absolutely out of place. It does look like you might be going for more of a controlling game plan with things like Yosei and Mindslicer. I used to have the latter but cut it due to a few reasons. But it does good work.

How good has Martyr's Cause been for you? I can see it being good for a sac outlet at least, but does the damage prevention do a lot? I am wondering if this would just be better as Viscera Seer. Another card that I think ends up being better is Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim over Disciple of Griselbrand. It is almost strictly better and being able to get the white mana over just generic shouldn't be too difficult. I have never liked spending mana to sac my stuff though so I might even look to Yahenni, Undying Partisan as an alternative to them.

We talked about it in my thread, but Yawgmoth, Thran Physician would do good here. And it would work really well with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed if you wanted to add him (and you like that playstyle). Mikaeus also works well with Luminous Broodmoth and Woodfall Primus to loop things.

Oreskos Explorer is probably the one card I would pick out as being the "worst". It is inconsistent enough and isn't actual ramp that I never liked it. I had tried it a long time ago and it never did what I wanted. I think a better alternative is likely just Tithe. It is harder to recur but you always get at least one land, you can time it a bit better to get the second land (and you only need one person with more lands than you to get 2), and it works better in the late game than Explorer as the latter doesn't do much if you get it later and have already ramped a bunch.
tags fixed :)

The sac outlets are one of the primary ways I curb the combo potential of the deck.

Viscera Seer floats in and out of the deck, but generally having an unrestricted sac outlet on a creature is a big temptation for tutoring to complete an infinite combo. Yahenni, Undying Partisan is in the sideboard now that I picked up a reprint copy.

Martyr's Cause is a cheap Forcefield that doubles as a sac outlet. Once out, attacking me becomes unprofitable, so they just don't do it. So it creates virtual life gain as a Ghostly Prison would. It is another power downgrade from the Mana Altars, which I own, but don't want in this deck. It could be a Yahenni in an instant and the deck would be better for it. Come to think of it, that may happen and I can keep Disciple of Grisslebrand. Thanks!

I just recently noticed Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim is a functionally better Disciple of Grisslebrand, but I'm not too worried about it. I want my sac outlets to be low profile, and the removal ability draws more attention than the lifegain. My sac outlets are always targeted with extreme prejudice, so anything I can do to lower the threat profile is fine by me.

I liked Oreskos Explorer when it was first printed, but there are better cards coming out. Though it has done good for me regularly filling my hand with land drops. The Scholar of New Horizons may be a much better card than this one as it guarantees one land to hand if it lives and potential to actually ramp. I should try it in this place and put Dawntreader Elk in for Yavimaya Granger to see how I like them. Unfortunately neither of these actually "ramp" me on turn 2, but neither to their predecessors, so no loss there. Good cuts there I think.

Next I need some good card draw. I''m not sure Generous Patron will give me what I want. So Fell Stinger will probably retake that spot. Yawgmoth, Thran Physician will be coming in, maybe better in Patron's spot. Guardian Project has caught my attention since I don't to tokens, but do have creatures entering and leaving the graveyard regularly. I have just been cold to single-shot instant and sorcery draw for this deck. I really want that INCREMENTAL VALUE, but sometimes all you really need is a big refill once and a while. Though my creatures don't stay in play long and are not particularly large, so the power-matters draw spells loose a lot of appeal.
Last edited by PrimevalCommander 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

The Great Henge would also work well here for card draw/buffing your incoming dudes. You have a fair number of 4+ power creatures, which makes TGH 5 mana or less, at which point, it's mostly an upgrade to Guardian Project.

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

I would have 2 or 3 Great Henge's if I could afford it :grin: Definitely a good recommendation, thanks!

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

Made some updates to help me draw cards and get some late game value

Yawgmoth, Thran Physician in for Generous Patron. Never cast Patron, but Yawgmoth is obviously better at everything. Just dismantled the deck he was leading so I could use him and the sleeves for something else.

Scholar of New Horizons in for Oreskos Explorer as a way to get actual ramp instead of lands to hand, which I have too much of. Slow, but gives me needed turn 2 plays for ramp, which I have few.

Massacre Girl in for Hallowed Burial. I really like Burial, but Massacre Girl has more synergy with the deck and can still eat indestructibles if not overly large. Puts my stuff in the grave instead of in the library which I prefer. Easier to tutor and recur if I want something other than False Prophet.

Golgari Rot Farm + Selesnya Sanctuary in for 2 lands. Bounce lands coming back in with the addition of Kura, the Boundless Sky Boseiju, Who Endures and Takenuma, Abandoned Mire. This little package makes bounce lands highly valuable later on since I'm also playing Bojuka bog and have Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt on my buy list.

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

Short update, played Karador two times over the Holidays and Massacre Girl did quite well. Had a Birthing Pod in play for a couple turns which really got my deck moving. Massacre Girl is a good tutor target in my Pod chain if I can't get to Prophet or need the ETB instead of the Death trigger for convenience. Having a second recurrable wipe for redundancy is nice to have. Should have made that swap years ago.

Yawgmoth, Thran Physician did alright, drawing me a couple cards before eating removal. It was early game, so I just sac'd some ramp dudes to net cards, but having the sac+draw on a single card is a welcome sight to be sure.

I think I might need a Solitude to come in for Archon of Justice because having too many triggers on death leaves me too reliant on sac outlets. I'm praying for a reprint here sometime to soften the price just a bit before jumping in. Not having flying makes it good with Luminous Broodmoth because annoyingly, 1/3 of my creatures have flying :crazy:. Good for chip damage though.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 year ago

That is good to hear on Massacre Girl. She is one that seems sort of on the edge for me and I believe it was discussed a little more in depth earlier when discussing creature based board wipes.

I think Yawgmoth ends up being one of those cards that can be pretty explosive (in terms of keeping the deck moving) while at the same time having a relatively high floor so he never feels like a dead card. Obviously, his greater power comes from having a larger board state, or at least a number of smaller creatures we don't mind sacrificing, and that isn't something that will always happen. But even using him to draw a couple cards and put something important into the yard for Karador to let you recast can let you turn the corner so to speak.

I end up playing both but I don't think the swap is a bad one. Archon is nice for hitting everything but Solitude lets you go shields down in certain cases. Archon's issue is indeed that it needs to die so it can be a little trickier to get to work if you absolutely need it "right now" so Solitude does shine in that regard. And, of course, the interaction with Broodmoth is a pretty good one.

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 4 months ago

out Morbid Opportunist and Grim Haruspex

in Braids, Arisen Nightmare and Triarch Praetorian

Funny first outing for Braids. Every time I see here played online she is a mega Phyrexian Arena, drawing 2-3 cards on end step and draining opponents constantly. First game outing with her my stubborn opponents keep sacrificing creatures to deny me the draw. Still won the game after getting a small loop on False Prophet to slow down the mid-game, but I was looking for extra cards in the early game. Honestly my opponents saccing creatures is still good for me, but it was funny because it is in there for the draw engine. Secondary function as a slow sac outlet to trigger minor effects here and there. Triggered False Prophet once as well.

Same game Triarch Praetorian did well. Got eaten by Braids early game for minimal value, but came back 2x for 4 cards and sticks around to get sacrificed all over again. Good with Birthing Pod chains as well. Morbid Opportunist and Grim Haruspex require a bit more set up and I don't have enough fodder in the deck. The Praetorian helps with the fodder and can come back off little recursion triggers to draw cards and not self destruct like Fell Stinger and Vulturous Aven, which both seemed to disappoint in the long run.

On the watch list:
Angel of Serenity. Got to cast her and Exile 1/2 the field, but overall I could easily wipe the entire board with Massacre Girl for less mana. Upside of hiding things away for myself rarely comes up, but I'm still riding the hype from when she was released (11 years ago :zombie: ) and we lost our mind thinking triple removal was worth + the hoops to sacrifice at instant speed :rofl:

Tooth and Nail: my last copy in a deck, still does enough for me to warrant the slot, but I do want to test Majestic Genesis and see what it can do for 1 less mana.

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 month ago

Quick update and a bit of discussion around a few card choices.

OUT Angel of Serenity >> IN Morbid Opportunist

Angel of serenity has been in the deck a LONG time, and has been power crept out now. Also my avg. mana value is high and I need more card draw in the list. So this swap does everything I want. Reduce redundant 7 drops, reduce overall avg. mana value, increase card draw concentration.

Conversation started in another thread brought to my decklist for better reference:
I'm currently torn between Elk and Yavimaya Grainger. Grainger doesn't require mana to activate when coming from the graveyard, and can get a land + sac to other abilities for value. That is why it is still in over Elk. But Elk comes down sooner and splits the cost, but has to self-sac to get the land. Tough choice. That's why I like Scholar of New Horizons, it gets the land + sticks around to be eaten by Braids, Arisen Nightmare or Sidisi, Undead Vizier , or Birthing Pod. Having too many self-sacrificing creatures: Dawntreader Elk , Fell Stinger, Vulturous Aven made it difficult to keep enough fodder around to trigger my other sac outlets. So I'm trying to find things that stick. Triarch Praetorian fits in this category where Fell Stinger is more consistent, but Praetorian sticks round to be more useful.

Too many times I wishing my self-sacrifice creatures wouldn't self-sac so I can net a little more value from other cards. Now with Braids, Arisen Nightmare that becomes even more important. It's making me want to try Hallowed Spiritkeeper again to boost the amount of sac fodder I have around. But in the past if I needed more blockers, I would just tutor up a False Prophet and slow the board down that way.

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