What Horrors Emerge from the Depths? Captain N'ghathrod

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

What Horrors Emerge from the Depths?

Commander

Approximate Total Cost:

Had a fun game where I managed to mill all 3 opponents out, but the last one was able to deal the final 2 damage to me in their upkeep to win.

Deck has been pretty fun, but could definitely use some tweaks. I threw in some non-Horrors that were on theme, but not sure that was the right call. Looking to grab some of the better mill cards in the next week or so:
Strongly considering adding Maskwood Nexus--if I'm stealing other people's creatures, may as well make them horrors, too. Plus it provides something to do with excess mana.

Could use some suggestions for cuts to accommodate the above cards, as well as suggestions for anything I've missed that should be in the deck. The goals are to either mill everyone out, or smash face with a combination of my horrors and the stuff I steal.
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yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Here are the cuts I'll be making once the new cards come in.



Mostly they're straight swaps for better/more appropriate cards.

Cut Your Losses is always 6 mana, and requires a sacrifice to hit the same target twice, or a second target, whereas Cacophony just hits everyone for the same mana cost, and has an alternate mode of milling 8. Seems better.

Some of my creatures dodge Languish, but not all the valuable ones, and it won't necessarily hit what I want it to on opposing boards. MAE hits what I need it to, and may hit some other stuff as well. Will see if it works the way I want it to.

Windfall is super good, but I've found that the deck doesn't have the sorts of interaction to mitigate refueling 3 other players. A couple times now I've wheeled and gotten punished for it. Also, with the highish CMC of the deck, I'm not always in a position where I want to dump my hand for new cards. Rhystic should be just straight value, and with my draw=mill, may teach some players to pay their taxes. It IS tempting to keep this alongside the draw=mill enchantments, and especially as a way to force draws on empty libraries, rather than waiting, but for now it's out.

Endless Evil looks like a fun card, but I've had it in hand a few times and never cast it. It does nothing for a turn cycle, is open to removal, and even though it may return to hand, that's still not great. And I don't feel like I have quite enough worthwhile ETB/attack/damage triggers on creatures to make 1/1 copies especially valuable. Court of Cunning may make me a target, and may give other plays draw, but it will draw me at least one card, and can provide a LOT of mill.

Wrexial comes out for not being a horror and for being expensive to cast. It could come back in at some point, but the top of the deck is pretty clunky. Harvester is less expensive, and comes with two forms of interaction stapled to it. We'll see how often it puts in work, but especially being able to turn off commanders can be very relevant (see: Ixidron).

Grell Philosopher comes out because it just hasn't really done much so far. I've had one instance where it allowed two of my horrors to tap for mana, and the dream, I guess, is to copy a Sol Ring or Gilded Lotus or something, but I don't have many cheap horrors, and tapping the big guys for some mana feels bad. I'm struggling to think of other artifact activated abilities that I want to copy and would see consistently enough to keep this. Otherwise, it's a 1 power horror without native evasion. I had considered cutting Thief in this slot, since it's not a horror, but realized that as far as tribal synergy goes, the two main reasons to run horrors are for the mill and menace granted by the Captain. Well, Thief has flying, which is better, and already mills 2 and steals a card. I've also been wanting to run it in a deck for a looooong time, and it actually fits here, so it stays in for now. It also double-mills if Maskwood shows up. Teferi's Tutelage is just providing more incidental mill, and comes with a little looting. The right play might be just replacing Psychic Corrosion with this, but will try both for a bit. Truthfully, this slot should probably be something like Propaganda to ward off getting beaten down, more removal, or more card draw.

Elder Brain has been very meh so far. It's big and slow and enough of a threat that people want to remove it. Of the 3 times I've swung with it, I have gotten a hand full of land and a piece of ramp (not bad, but also not super relevant at that stage of the game), a handful of off-synergy tribal junk that didn't do much for me, and some decent stuff that didn't matter because that player was milled out from the attack (Elder Brain helped by forcing a draw of 5, but since it's on attack and not damage, they drew before milling, so it couldn't kill them anyway). Maskwood Nexus' main job is to turn creature I steal with the Captain into horrors so they can contribute to the game plan. I've had a few instances now where I've reanimated big, evasive creatures, and just kept them back as blockers (not terrible), because I knew I wasn't winning with combat damage and they didn't mill. I've also had a couple instances where I've stolen utility creatures for ETBs, and then they just sat around as chump blockers or junk, when they could have been doing more. With Kindred Discovery, this can be even more valuable. The added benefit of being able to sink excess mana into making bodies is just gravy.

Changeling Outcast I initially didn't want to drop, and was struggling for what to remove for the Crab, when I realized that Outcast is, at BEST, going to mill one player for 3 cards (assuming a +1/+1 counter AND lord effect), and maybe draw a card or two if my board is just POPPING, whereas Ruin Crab will mill 9 cards on one land drop. Even if I'm not hitting lands consistently, this does WAY more for the same price.

I really have liked Mind Funeral when I've played it, but if milling is what I want to be doing, Tasha's is going to be more impactful most of the time, even if it doesn't stock the yard for the Captain. If they were both single target, I wouldn't make the swap, but going from single target to everyone feels like the right play.
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Winged Boots -- may swap this for Mask of Riddles at some point, but I like the idea of the card draw
Fleet Swallower -- looks good, but big and slow
Levitation -- need to find a cut for this
Shadow Kin -- if I find Ruin Crab to be underwhelming I may swap it for this
Rise of the Dark Realms -- would definitely win games...if I can cast it; need to see how often I'd have the mana for this
Whispersilk Cloak -- see Winged Boots comment
Tasha's Hideous Laughter -- really want to fit this in, but need a cut for it; may drop Psychic Corrosion for this at some point
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind -- would like to get this in, might swap it for Strionic Resonator if I find I'm not activating often enough

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Illithid Harvester made a big impact in a game turning off Krenko, Ghired, and a bunch of high value creatures.

Make An Example also came in clutch later. Notably, Ghired is best left alive without any tokens or other creatures to copy.

Nighthowler also put this game away, swinging for double-digit damage for a few turns, including the final two swings aided by Rogue's Passage to avoid chumps.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

I've had a couple games now where I've milled everyone out. In one of them, the last player was on 0 cards in library, but I was at 2 life, and they had two dogs to shoot me with Rin and Seri, Inseparable in their upkeep!

The mill plan had felt fairly solid before, and I expect it will be more consistent/faster with the new adds (have to update main list still). Probably need 1 or 2 pieces of graveyard hate to combat decks getting value from the mill--already had one player complaining about how much mill hurt them...only to have them Victimize back two big value creatures, then get back Victimize to go again, and then played Whip of Erebos for even MORE value. Speaking of, Whip might be worth consideration here for the life gain and the chance to get back a high-value horror on occasion, although a lot of them want to be sticking around.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Got an opponent's Scute Swarm and got out both Maskwood Nexus and Kindred Discovery. Came very close to decking myself! Ended up destroying it with my own Feed the Swarm.

Also stole a Crypt Ghast while Urborg was out, which allowed for some BIG plays.

Cast Psionic Ritual and had 12 Scute Swarms to tap if I wanted, but my yard had been exiled earlier, so I just tapped 6 for a little value. Would have been Maddening Cacophony (kicked thanks to doubled mana), Tasha's Hideous Laughter, and Fractured Sanity! That very likely would have milled everyone.

On the following turn, I cast Mind Grind for X=17 to seal the deal, but had 20 Scute Swarms to swing and mill out anyone still having cards in library (all had menace and fear).


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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

So, I stole an opponent's Lord Xander, the Collector, equipped with Lightning Greaves and swung back at them to mill half their library. That has me thinking Fleet Swallower should PROBABLY be in here. Just need to figure out what to cut for it. Would also probably want to include Swiftfoot Boots as well if I'm adding more attack triggers.

Xander also cast a Rise of the Dark Realms, which was in my "maybe" pile, but I felt like it was too costly to resolve reliably. I was able to exile everyone else's yards in response, but he still got some value out of mine. Thankfully, I topdecked a Crippling Fear and was able to wipe more of the board beside my two big-butted creatures (named turtles). I didn't take note of when I hit the 9 mana needed to cast Rise myself if I'd had it, but it was pretty far along. Still would have been enormous value. So...maybe worth considering?

Also, looking at his deck (in his stocked graveyard) had me thinking about Bruvac the Grandiloquent again. Not a horror, but comes down early, and makes everything in the deck work better. That said, I wouldn't want to run any of the "mill half library" cards alongside him, as that's a little too cheesy, I think.

Finally, I stole an opponent's Timin, Youthful Geist and the defense it provided was stellar! Without that, I probably would have gotten beaten down over the following 2 turns, rather than being able to stretch the game out to another 5 or so turns and mill everyone. Has me thinking I may need to pack 1 or 2 pieces of defense in here. Maybe Propaganda?

Does anyone read this? Anyone else playing the Captain, or have feedback in general?

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

As a side note: it's really %$#% annoying that in half the games I play the Captain the table %$#% and %$#% about the mill, and how I'm taking away their decks...and then players proceed to run into their reanimation or recursion spells and have BIG turns, thanks to their yards getting stocked. Just had a game where one deck ramped us like crazy (I hate group hug decks so much), and I cast Mind Grind for X=2 after also playing the Captain, and everyone lost it. "How could you do that after I just gave everyone a bunch of lands. Not cool. So not fun." I elect to NOT get Bojuka Bog to remove Anger from the reanimator deck's yard off of Tempt With Discovery since everyone felt like I was being unfun. So of course, that player rams a bunch of damage at me on their turn, all with haste. Then I playing Consuming Aberration and mill some more, and everyone complains more. Then the next player plays Underworld Breach and takes 30 minutes playing out their whole graveyard, swings to kill the reanimator deck (with no creatures in play) and tries to kill me but misjudges and I'm left at 1 life. Finally, the "group hug" player drops a Genesis Wave for X=17, recurs THEIR entire graveyard, and takes forever showing off how much mana they can make with all their doubling effects, when they have me and the other player dead to rites already.

I was holding back a little on a couple plays, because everyone said I was ruining the game for them, then all 3 went absolutely nuts with the yards I had stocked for them, and all 3 made me the prime target, when, aside from some mill, I had nothing particularly scary on the board.

Just pretty ticked off and being made to feel like the asshole at the table, and then targeted down for providing the fuel everyone uses to go nuts. Particularly since this is a VERY FAIR deck. No infinite combos, no big mana, no stax...

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

The good ol stage of new players when they think getting miles is a bad thing.

I am curious though, even the reanimator deck was getting upset? Seems like he should at least realize you were helping him.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
The good ol stage of new players when they think getting miles is a bad thing.

I am curious though, even the reanimator deck was getting upset? Seems like he should at least realize you were helping him.
Yeah. Rakdos Chainer. Has his reanimator in the command zone. Complaining as much as the others, and swung at me, and only me, the first chance he got.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

yeti1069 wrote:
1 year ago
Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
The good ol stage of new players when they think getting miles is a bad thing.

I am curious though, even the reanimator deck was getting upset? Seems like he should at least realize you were helping him.
Yeah. Rakdos Chainer. Has his reanimator in the command zone. Complaining as much as the others, and swung at me, and only me, the first chance he got.
Have you talked to the group about it? I try to help other people get better at the game when possible.

If your advice is falling on deaf ears, just go full Grolnok, the Omnivore/Sidisi, Brood Tyrant/Muldrotha, the Gravetide and enjoy the lack of gravehate till they catch on I guess.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
yeti1069 wrote:
1 year ago
Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
The good ol stage of new players when they think getting miles is a bad thing.

I am curious though, even the reanimator deck was getting upset? Seems like he should at least realize you were helping him.
Yeah. Rakdos Chainer. Has his reanimator in the command zone. Complaining as much as the others, and swung at me, and only me, the first chance he got.
Have you talked to the group about it? I try to help other people get better at the game when possible.

If your advice is falling on deaf ears, just go full Grolnok, the Omnivore/Sidisi, Brood Tyrant/Muldrotha, the Gravetide and enjoy the lack of gravehate till they catch on I guess.
Eh. This was the first two games I played with these folks via a Discord for Spelltable games. In all likelihood I'll just skip playing with them again.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Just had a ROUGH game.

Ground Seal came down the turn after I dropped Captain, and I had nothing I could do about it. Had Zellix out, and figured I could mill everyone a bunch and make some tokens to lean into the mill plan, or block, but Zellix got removed in response to Cacophony, and the big mill just made me archenemy. So, every attempt I made at drawing cards, milling cards, or building a board state got countered or removed. The only creature I reanimated was a Shimmer Myr.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Finding more and more that I'm getting hated out by decks swinging big stuff my way. Thinking I probably need some more instant speed removal, and maybe some defensive cards. Propaganda is one option.

Anyone have suggestions on what to add to help ward off being aggro-targeted down, and/or what to cut for those defensive pieces/instant speed interaction?

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Had a pretty solid game that I thought would go poorly vs Magar of the Magic Strings , Kumano, Master Yamabushi, and Go-Shintai of Life's Origin, or...spellslinger, spellslinger, and enchantress.

Started off quick with a turn 1 Sol Ring into turn 2 K'rrik, and the following turn cast Captain and Scheming Symmetry for Rhystic Study. Everyone paid most of their taxes, which was disappointing, but slowing them down helped I think. Over the course of the game, I think I ended up with probably 6 cards drawn off it, which is way less than I had thought I'd get, but 3 mana for 6 cards is still solid.

In the whole game, I stole a Sol Ring, Blood Pet, and Whispersilk Cloak with the Captain. That last ended up being big! I slapped it on K'rrik the following turn, and managed to keep him around all game, growing little bits at a time, and gaining me life.

Biggest play of the game was casting Psionic Ritual and replicating it twice to draw a couple cards and cast Chandra's Ignition targeting K'rrik. That unfortunately killed Captain, but it dealt 70 damage in total, wiped most of the board, and put me at a comfy 114 life. For most of the rest of the game, I couldn't keep a creature on board besides K'rrik with the Cloak on, and was just taking a beating from anyone who could get at me. Phenax came out after a kicked Maddening Cacophony, which allowed me to turn K'rrik's big power into mill. The shrines deck had out the shrines that draw, so I focused mill on them to try and get them out of the way. I'd been milling Kumano mostly in the beginning as the only deck not utilizing their yard.

Lucked into a Soul-Guide Lantern (added recently) to remove the full yards to limit the damage of giving two graveyard decks gas, and was hanging onto An Offer You Can't Refuse for several turns before countering that triple damage enchantment, since Kumano had 11 power on board, plenty of mana, and they'd managed to whittle me down into the 30s over a few turns. Kumano made his board hexproof in response to Curse of the Swine, but the next turn I topped Make An Example, which got rid of Kumano for a turn, and meant I could put some stuff on board.

Finally sent a bunch of mill at Kumano, to leave him dead on draw, which left Magar with nothing doing in hand, and no answers to K'rrik without the Cloak. Milled them for 17, and they scooped with no answers, and only one turn left to do anything.

It was a little disappointing playing the deck and having so few targets for reanimation, but I was able to make good use of some spells in yards, and it did its thing. At one point, I milled Magar for 11 and hit only Blood Pet to reanimate.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Had a great game with this deck tonight in a match-up where I felt like I was the weakest deck at the outset vs Koma, Cosmos Serpent, Titania, Nature's Force, and the Inquisitor Greyfax precon (apparently unmodified).

Highlights:
-played Sewer Nemesis targeting Koma since I had milled them more than anyone else to that point
-tapped the wrong mana to leave up Memory Plunder for the Inquisitor's Fell the Mighty
-that meant Titania buffed their ridiculous board with Overwhelming Stampede, had most of their side tapped down by Koma sacrificing stuff, and then knocking Koma down to 4 life
-on my turn, I instead used Plunder to snag Stampede after noting that my Nemesis was a 14/14! Swung Nemesis and Birds of Paradise at Titania, and Captain at Koma then buffed them all +14/+14 and trample after blockers for lethal on both
-used Strionic Resonator to good effect in 1v1 against Greyfax to end up playing as much or more of their deck than they did

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

A debate I'm having with myself is whether to ditch some of the horrors to include some solid milling creatures otherwise like: Part of the allure of these guys is, for the most part, they're cheaper mana-wise than the horrors, and they either come with their own (better than menace) evasion, or mill without having to connect.

Also trying to decide if I should go bigger on mana with some of the big rocks (Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus) and big land mana (Cabal Coffers and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. If I did, it could enable some decent X spells like Dread Summons and make Mind Grind much more dangerous.

The benefits of sticking with horrors is that they have some internal synergies, like with Uchuulon, and their bodies are on the beefier side, though I definitely have some junky horrors in the deck right now that could be cut.

Wish there was some overlap with rogues for some of the mill cards/payoffs there. Had a moment where I thought Anowon, the Ruin Thief might be a good fit, but it only draws off mill from rogues dealing damage.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Haven't updated the first post/main deck yet.

These swaps are mostly things I want to try out.
*Wharf for Profane Memento: a 1/1 that loots has been largely underwhelming, and I've only used its ability to make 3/2 horrors in one game. Hoping Memento will pad my life a bit.

*Psychic Corrosion for Memory Erosion: other than a few cards in the deck, I'm rarely drawing more than one card/turn cyc;le. Erosion probably mills more cards over the course of the game, although it doesn't directly contribute to the Captain's EOT trigger unless someone is a) interacting on my turn, and b) for some reason NOT removing Captain. We'll see if it proves more or less useful here.

*Hunted Horror for Cruel Witness: don't love going up in CMC, but while the cheap 7/7 trample has occasionally been solid, the pro-black tokens have caused problems for me as well, and I've had games where I found myself holding HH in hand. Witness is evasive, and has a looting abilities that may help smooth out the play (although looters are often good for pitching excess lands in other decks, while this one rarely doesn't want/need more lands, so...).

*Phenax for Obliterator: the God has shown up a few times and been decent, but a 5 mana card whose sole purpose is to keep the cards milling when I can't profitably attack isn't great, and I've rarely had the devotion to turn it into a creature, so it's JUST an enchantment most of the time. Also, the play pattern it wants is to hold back blockers then mill at the last EOT, whereas Cap'n wants the milling to happen on my turn. The may be too tough without further upgrading the mana base here.

*Brainstealer for Mindbreaker: I wanted to like the big 7-mana horrors that came out in the recent sets, but they've proven to be awkward to play. The dragon always seems to show up and be playable when I need some gas NOW, not exiled cards to maybe use on my next turn. Mindbreaker, meanwhile, does some BIG mill, AND has unearth which can be pretty relevant here, I think.

I'd actually wanted to include both Shadowkin and Soaring Thought-Thief as well, but I couldn't find my copy of the former, and don't own the latter (and haven't had a chance to check in an LGS, since the only copies I could find on TCGP came with a shipping cost 10x the cost of the card).


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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Terisian came up in a game and it STOMPED! I had a great turn where I was able to Unearth it, play Maskwood, and remove one of two blockers my opponent had, then swing with Captain, Terisian, a 4/1 skeleton token from The Undercity, and a stolen Aurelia, the Warleader. Milled that opponent for half their deck twice and another 32 cards in one turn.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Nothing like milling someone to 3 cards and passing only to have them cast Thassa's Oracle for the win on their turn.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

As a 1 mana card, Profane Memento has put in some real work at keeping me alive, but I'm debating whether it should be Whip of Erebos instead. On the one hand, my deck's CMC is already on the high side, and adding another 4 CMC card has a lot of competition. The upside is I can gain a TON of life from combat damage (specifically in this last game, I could have run Consuming Aberration into blockers just to gain enough life to not have to worry too much about crackback, AND would have had other big lifelinkers for further protection), and the reanimation ability may come up occasionally. Whip is a card I keep putting in decks then taking back out.


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