Yes, my commander is a cassette player - Galaxy-Brain Soundwave

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Decklist up (finally):
Tom Servo, Sonic Spy

Commander (1)

Approximate Total Cost:

As much as I dislike the Transformers cards, I have to admit that Soundwave, Sonic Spy // Soundwave, Superior Champion is a masterpiece of design. Casting instants and sorceries from enemy graveyards is already a really fun design space, but requiring that the damage dealt exactly equal the mana value of the spell is absolutely genius. Remake Soundwave with "mana value less than or equal to the damage dealt" and he's far, far less interesting to build and play. Simply make a massive token army, like so many other decks already do, and smash them into people for value. But exactly equal...now we've gotta get big-brained up in here. Galaxy brained.

Maybe too galaxy brained for me, tbh. This is definitely one of the most difficult builds I've worked on. I've got loads of cards pulled out, but striking the right balance seems extremely tricky given that we're so dependent what our opponents' decks are doing. Some decks will readily give us fodder just by playing. Some will be significantly more difficult to squeeze value from. Some will have 1, 2, 3 mv spells. Some will have big 8 mana bombs.

I've identified the main elements of the deck I want to focus on. So far I have:

-Token generation
-Power manipulation (anything from equipment to combat tricks to sac outlets, to make sure the right amount goes through)
-Mill
-Control (removal, counters, wipes)
-Tutors
-Value
-Ramp
-Lands

Currently I'm thinking of a balance somewhere along these lines:

Tokens-14
Power Manipulation-8
Mill-12
Control-14
Tutors-4
Value-4
Ramp-6
Lands-38

Of course there's overlap with some token makers milling, some control spells making tokens, some power manipulation adding control, etc. so the actual numbers will likely be a bit better.

Alright, I'll go into some thoughts on each category.

Tokens - The big thing here, of course, is tokens that can reliably connect. Unfortunately there aren't very many unblockable tokens around. Flying is by far the most common option, though of course it's unreliable. Soundwave does provide two very nice ones - Ravage is extremely rough to block, and Laserbeak is a great place to load up equipment/auras/etc with limited risk of blowout. So honestly there could be a build here that doesn't use any token production at all, and just focuses on manipulating the power of those two tokens. It's worth noting that Soundwave can trigger once for each opponent, so only having two tokens does prevent you from getting the sweet triple value. But it's also worth noting that, from what I can determine, a pretty significant majority of the most popular commander spells cost either 2 or 3, with a decent number at 1, some at 4, and not many at 5+. So honestly, you could almost consider going with no tokens OR power manipulation. Putting a Sword of X and Y onto either token could easily put them out of range of most targets. Based on that, I think it's probably worth having some fine-grained control with 1/1 flying tokens, in order to cast the 1-drops and also to add to Ravage/Laserbeaks damage in small increments, though with a focus on the ravage/laserbeak tokens. Note that you can accidentally brick yourself if you're on the robot side with no way to produce tokens, though.

Power Manipulation - As mentioned, a big risk here is overshooting it. Especially with a token-heavy low-evasion build, your opponent could have a lot of control over what you cast based on how they block. So running sac outlets actually could be very useful if they decide not to take an obvious block, in order to prevent you from hitting something they don't want you to hit. One thing of particular note is first/double strike - it could screw you up pretty badly if you transform into the cassette player side, and then can't trigger for the regular strike damage. Casting an instant between strikes will solve the problem, but an even better solution is to hit multiple opponents with first strike damage - the first trigger resolution will flip you to the cassette side, but then the second resolution will flip you right back - not because of the robot side trigger (transforming won't happen if it already transformed since the trigger was put onto the stack) but because his cassette side will see you casting an even/odd mv spell from their graveyard. Tricky to pull off, obviously, but it raises the possibilities to up to 6 triggers in a combat.

Mill - This is something I'm putting more and more consideration into. A lot of decks are fairly instant/sorcery light, and we absolutely live and die by having targets in enemy graves. Dedicating cards just for the chance to add some castable fodder seems kinda stupid, but when you consider something like Maddening Cacophony that can add more than a hundred cards, it starts to seem very reasonable. I do think we probably want to focus on cards that are very efficient - Millstone doesn't exactly seem worth it. But throw out a Ruin Crab on turn 1, and you'll have dozens of cards in graves by the time you're ready to connect. A few important questions - how much should we value symmetrical versus asymmetrical mill - more opponents milled means more potential for getting multiple casts in a single combat, but it's also likely that some opponents will be significantly better than others in terms of likely targets. Some of this is kinda moot because in modern design we rarely pay any extra for symmetry, but there are some redundant options that are targeted. We could either accept some of the targeted options, or potentially focus more on tutors in order to get the mega-bombs like cacophony.

Control - not much to say here, I'm pretty familiar with the Esper control suite. As per my evaluation of the likely targets matching up fairly well with ravage/laserbeak, I wonder if the deck could be built as almost pure control and trust Soundwave to generate value on his own. But then I think that about basically every deck. One other note - it's basically impossible to keep Soundwave protected from your own board wipes by leaving him as a noncreature artifact, since casting any spell will mandatorily flip him back to the robot side. So no synergy there, unfortunately. If you can hit one in an opponents grave, though, you can make it work. Most likely light on wraths and heaviest on counterspells since that's something we can never get off soundwave.

Tutors - not obviously necessary, except that I think mill especially is a somewhat shallow pool with some really really strong options and a quick drop-off in quality. That sort of pool incentivizes using tutors to find the good ones. And ofc few decks are made worse by a demonic tutor. Probably only running the very very good ones, though.

Value - low priority since that's what our commander is doing already. But a few of the stronger pieces could be a good idea just to keep us topped up with control pieces. Could maybe focus on land-generated value to reduce the footprint here, since we shouldn't need much.

Ramp - We're only really interested in ramp early, to get out soundwave on turn 3 (maybe 4 for the B side) and start making tokens, so it's a low priority. There are some lands which can help, though the color requirements do make it harder.

Lands - Probably relatively high on lands since we can't get them directly from soundwave's value generation. 3c so fixing is fairly high priority of course.

That's where I'm at at the moment.

So the big questions are:

-is it worth dedicating 10+ slots to token generation, or should I focus more on the built-in tokens and manipulating their power?
-should I use splashier equipment that risks putting targets out of reach, or is fine-grained control like Kamiz, Obscura Oculus a better fit?
-how many slots should be dedicated to mill, and should those slots mostly be tutors to find the best mill, or should I use a wider swath of single use and repeatable mill to counter graveyard exiling?
Last edited by DirkGently 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

Dragonlover
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Post by Dragonlover » 1 year ago

How about global/repeatable unblockability effects? Sun Quan, Lord of Wu comes to mind, as well as Dauthi Embrace. Archetype of Imagination could work as well. That way you can tailor your combat damage with relative impunity.

Dragonlover
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@Dragonlover I do have some aversion to that for a couple reasons:

1) If you build your deck on the assumption you'll have that effect (i.e. including a lot of 1/1 tokens without evasion) then it will be almost non-functional unless you have it. Which means you need to dedicate a lot of slots to either having that effect, or having tutors for that effect, etc. If you use a bunch of semi-evasive tokens instead as a backup, then the effect is partially wasted.

2) They can get blown out in combat via removal fairly easily.

I think having some equipment that can provide added evasion as well as extra power/abilities/etc is going to be more reliable, when added to already evasive tokens (mostly flying, since that's kinda all we have).

Right now something I'm struggling with is trying to decide what the standard curveout should look like for this deck. We've got a lot of things we need to set up before things really get going, which makes is fairly difficult to plan.

Specifically, we need to play our commander in a timely manner (on which side?), have some tokens on board, and have some targets in the grave. The simplest way to go would be assuming our opponents will cast spells we can use, and that soundwave will produce the tokens we need, in which case theoretically we can just ramp on 2 or 3, play the commander on 4 (pretty hard to beat casting a 5mv commander on turn 4 without either a significant commitment to fast mana or a lucky draw), cast another spell on turn 5, and then finally connect on turn 6, which is pretty slow as well as unreliable on a couple fronts - one, maybe nobody has a spell we can cast, two, maybe they kill our token and lock us out of the game, three, they might have blockers. I also think that trying to play our commander before token production is somewhat awkward and slow, since we'll need to wait for the tokens to be able to attack etc etc. So I think the ideal order is something like:

T2: Ramp (if available)
T3: Tokens (if available)
T4: Either cast Soundwave bot-side if you can flip him right away with the tokens on-board, or car-side if you can't (assuming you ramped already and can pay 5).
T5: Mill, hold up control, etc.

So to achieve that curve-out, rather than sitting around durdling forever, I think it's important to only use 2-mana ramp, and to focus on mv 4 or less tokens, with an emphasis on 3 since we can use those even without ramp. Here are some of my favorite token production currently:
Some of those are a bit slower so they don't fit as nicely into the curve, but could be powerful late-game. Of course some cards will change the planned curveout - if we hit Bitterblossom, we can obviously play it out turn 2 and then ramp turn 3, or if we hit a mill crab T1 then we can take care of milling early, etc. So we aren't locked into this framework, it just gives us an idea of where in the curve we should look for each effect. Earlier is great, later is not.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

kraus911
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Post by kraus911 » 1 year ago

Chaos Wand seems on theme and good for getting spells in opponent's gy. Nice because you can target the spellcaster deck.

I agree ramp isn't super important because some of the first few spells you're going to hit out of graveyards are 2 and 3 drop ramp spells.

I really dig this deck idea, but you're right, it's a meta call in terms of not being a deck to pull out when everyone is playing timmy dinos and dragons.

I did read your response about Sun Quan, but Vela the Night-Clad provides evasion and a nice effect for your tokens hitting the bin. Granted she costs 6.

Not that I'm trying to fill up your deck with 6 drops, but Stolen Identity seems fun, along with any spell that makes token clones.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@kraus911 I hadn't thought about chaos wand being a functional mill card. If anything it's nice that you don't need to target the spellslinger deck, because the hit rate doesn't matter. As long as there's something to hit, you'll find it.

One nice thing about the build compared to other decks that rely on copying enemy instants/sorceries that, at a minimum, you've got a package for hitting with evasive tokens. So even if you're only hitting draw and ramp spells, you can still kill people eventually. I think it'd have to be an exceptionally bad table for it to be a total whiff. Though its power will vary a lot depending what people have.

Vela's not compelling to me - I'm not necessarily against something that provides extra evasion for my tokens, but the life loss clause isn't very interesting so the price tag is way above what I'd consider. Something like Cover of Darkness would be more interesting since at least the price tag is low, though it's obviously more narrow. If there's something similar though I might be interested. Right now I think equipment is likely the place to look, though - for the reasons above, I think all our tokens should be evasive by default, so adding extra evasions along with extra value, like SoFaI, is probably the sort of effect that most appeals to me. Granting evasion only isn't as compelling since we're already partially evasive, so it needs to come at a really good rate.

Stolen identity was one of my last cuts from the token producers (you'll notice it's in the list in my earlier post - I've now cut the segment down to 17 cards). My big fear for this deck is that there's a lot of things that need to be set up in order to start doing things - we need our commander in play, we need tokens, we need spells in enemy graveyards, and we need to be able to get through blockers. The reason I cut stolen identity is that it doesn't really help much with setting those things up. It's a great card once those things have already been set up, but my preference is to focus primarily on ensuring we're able to get to the stage where we're doing our thing ASAP, so anything that doesn't do that is subject to very heavy scrutiny. Almost all the token producers I've kept are in the 2-4 mana range so that we can set them up before playing the commander, and if our opponents give us fodder we can play him bot-side and get immediate value.

That said, I do think there's an argument that the more consistent way to build the deck is to plan on playing him car-side and basically only use his own tokens, along with equipment, to trigger his ability. It does cut down substantially on the moving parts, which is nice. The downside is that 5 mana is a pretty awkward cost for a commander you're trying to speed out - unless you have a lucky draw or a major commitment to fast mana, it's hard to get it down earlier than turn 4. And then if you're waiting until the turn after THAT to make a token, and then the turn after THAT before you can even think about connecting, it's all very slow. By that point it's already likely that flying or menace could be insufficient to get through blockers reliably, and then you're really in trouble. But you could dedicate those saved token slots to stuff like evasive equipment and potentially more ramp to give a decent odds of a T3 soundwave.

The plan for the more token-focused build is to hit a token producer t3 and then make a call between either playing soundwave t4 and flipping him (if possible), playing him without the immediate flip because you're confident you can get a hit later, or playing some mill to set yourself up for the next turn.

Here's my current token package:
All of them can come down before Soundwave and try to enable an early flip - the main exceptions being summonings and deekah because they're so insane in the late-game, and thopter spy network which seems just a little too perfect not to include. That said, those 3 are definitely under heavy scrutiny for future cuts.

I'm also working on the mill package - currently what I've got is:
I do like the idea of adding chaos wand, though.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Nimbaway
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Post by Nimbaway » 1 year ago

I think Reconnaissance is a key card for Soundwave, allowing us to manipulate how much damage we do before combat damage resolves.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@Nimbaway ooh, good catch. I missed that when going through my cards, but it does make a ton of sense here. You can negate any suicide attacks, ensure you never go over-damage, and of course get pseudo vigilance. I think that will almost certainly end up in the deck.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

In terms of mill efficiency, there's also: Also, if you're already milling opponents, it's probably worth also including a small suite of cards that can make use of non-instants/sorceries hitting their yards, like reanimation for creatures, or Captain N'ghathrod to steal creatures or artifacts.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@yeti1069 I had shadow kin in the list for a bit, but | think I've cut it. Other options are just a lot more efficient.

Mind grind I cut, I think it ends up being a bit too inefficient - to compare to Traumatize, if you pay 5 for each, traumatize hits around 40-44 cards whereas mind grinds hits 2.5-3 per person per mana spent on X, so for 5 you're looking at about half that many. There is some value to the flexibility. Targeting one versus hitting everyone is kind of a wash...hitting one person means you can focus on whoever has the best spells and/or weakest defenses, whereas hitting everyone means you can hit multiple spells in a single turn and it's a bit less vulnerable to Bojuka Bog or whatever. That said I think by the point you're paying more than 5 or 6 mana, it's going to be a lot more efficient to run a tutor for Maddening Cacophony since that'll flip 120+ cards most of the time.

mirko is too slow. Costs 5 and doesn't do anything until the next turn, and then he mills for ~10-11 cards. Weak evasion isn't the end of the world since we're also relying on weak evasion for our tokens, but he just doesn't do enough.

Mind funeral is cheaper but simply not impactful enough. I don't want to spend a card just to enable 1-2 targets - at that point I'd be better off drawing my own cards.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Alright, here's what I've got so far. As you can see we're way over on card count (currently 79 without lands), so I could use some help paring down. Probably aiming for 65 at the most, so 14 cuts required.

I have gone pretty heavy on tutors, so I'm thinking maybe I should pare down some of the redundant slower pieces - i.e. maybe cut Deekah, Fractal Theorist since Shark Typhoon is similar, stronger, and easier to tutor.
Tom Servo, Sonic Spy

Commander (1)

Approximate Total Cost:

Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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TheAmericanSpirit
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

I would cut the following, just as a starting point:

Noble heritage
Orzhov advokist
Fain the broker
Kaya's guile
Kaito shizuki
Sorin the mirthless
Dovin, grand arbiter
Blot out the sky
Psychic corrosion
Memory erosion
Altar of the brood
Steelshaper's gift
Grim tutor
Deekah
Artificer class
Muddle the mixture
Lim-dul's vault

These just seem likd the weakest cards in their respective categories imo
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@TheAmericanSpirit lol, no cuts from any of the control categories? Truly you are a Phelddagrif prodigy xD

I think I want to keep the tutors mostly intact, you've cut 4 of them. Based on how many different moving parts we have, I think we need to keep the tutor count high to fill in the gaps in case we're missing a key piece of the puzzle. I could see dropping Steelshaper's Gift since it isn't super versatile, but on the other hand I think I'd rather cut the weakest piece of equipment, since a 3 mana jitte is probably superior to SoHaH (especially since blinking is probably pretty useless and we likely won't have many basics. Actually that probably cuts sword of the animist as well.)

I cut psychic corrosion and memory erosion - I think they're both a bit too slow for something that costs 3. I think I'll cut whispering madness too - just knowing how I play, I think I'm going to find it difficult to operate well underneath it.

I think I'll cut PtE in the control category. With fewer slots dedicated I think flexibility will be better than efficiency.

I'll cut court of cunning for the same reason as the other 3mv enchantments. Just a bit too slow and low-impact. I don't think we have exceptional defenses, so the mill 10 is unlikely to happen, and 2 a turn is just not impressive.

Sorin is cut. Though I'm not sure if that's correct when I've beefed up the 2mv ramp. So I'll cut fellwar stone too. Artificer class stays in for now, I just acquired it and want to give it a shot. It does do a lot of things that we like tbh.

10 cuts down, we're getting close.

edit: quick thought that occurred to me about soundwave's design: one thing that's kind of annoying initially is the requirement that it be tokens dealing the damage, since there are so few unblockable tokens. But one big upside to that is that it incentivizes running equipment but NOT equipping it to your commander. If he triggered off, say, robots dealing damage, then the simplest solution would be to use equipment on him, thus making it more of a voltron deck, which of course limits how often you can trigger him before the game is over - the classic Rith, the Awakener problem. But because you have to connect with tokens, you can get tons of triggers from Soundwave, as well as your swords and such.

But at the same time, you've still GOT the swords, and you've GOT a 5-power commander, so it's real easy to pivot to a 3-turn clock if the situation dictates. We could plausibly win via regular damage, commander damage, OR mill - that's kind of silly.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

I've found that the value of Mind Grind is that it scales, can deck someone, and hits everyone. Traumatize is single target, can't deck anyone, and if the game goes long can end up hitting fewer cards. Besides, when you specifically want targets for each player, milling 15*3 is often better than 40*1.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

yeti1069 wrote:
1 year ago
I've found that the value of Mind Grind is that it scales, can deck someone, and hits everyone. Traumatize is single target, can't deck anyone, and if the game goes long can end up hitting fewer cards. Besides, when you specifically want targets for each player, milling 15*3 is often better than 40*1.
If mind grind was mill each opponent for 15 at the same cost as traumatize I'd be into it, but it's not likely to mill that much until you're pumping ~8 mana into it compared to traumatize's 5. At the price it's really easy for a tutor to get you more mileage. Even clunky Diabolic Tutor for Fractured Sanity is 7 mana to mill 14 from each opponent.

It does have the ability to mill people "to completion" but that's not really our primary plan to win the game. Could happen, but I'm not really going to dedicate slots to it. Anyway it's already possible with all the mill cards except the 3 that mill in halves, and realistically unless you hit them with a half-milling card first, it's going to be hard to fully mill them, so I don't think cutting those cards improves the odds of mill happening anyway.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Decklist is finally up. Whew, that took a long time to get together. Tricky for me, because I usually like my decks to have a very well-defined plan for what they're trying to do on the early turns of the game, and this kinda has that, but there's a couple different paths that could happen depending on which pieces we get and what our opponents are doing. So I expect it may take a few iterations to get right.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Got to play 3 games with the deck - a few notes:

-The balance between functions seems pretty good so far. Even without good spell targets, it still does okay as an equipment deck that occasionally casts spells, though usually you can do better than that.
-Raffine is %$#%$#% insane to plan around. Trying to figure out how many counters you're going to get becomes really tricky when you only have a few cards in hand and you're attacking with a fair number of creatures. I think it's good in the deck, but damn is it hard to play well.
-Definitely a deck that requires a LOT of good play to do well with. Seriously high skill cap. That part I like a lot.
-Biggest downside is that keeping track of good targets is a bit of a pain in the butt, especially with Altar of the Brood which, while effective, is nearly as annoying as Rhystic Study in any deck, and becomes even more annoying when every time everyone mills you have to check that no relevant spells hit the grave. The mill-half spells are time consuming upfront, but once they've resolved and everyone has the relevant spells pulled out and visible, it's way less annoying. So I may consider doing some tweaking of the mill cards for simplicity rather than raw power.
-Trying to explain to Jon that milling him doesn't reduce his card quality is among the most frustrating exercising in futility I've ever engaged in.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

kraus911
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Post by kraus911 » 1 year ago

Been wanting to build this myself and am probably going to try something close to your list. I especially like the swords giving evasion and bumping up token p/t.

I've never played Celestial Judgment and am curious if you find it usually a one-sided wipe, or one-sided enough to do work? It seems an odd choice on first blush. Another "wipe" possibility I saw in a different version was Perplexing Test which is an alt evacuation I think could be good here. Yeah you'd have to replay Soundwave, so 9 mana if you do it on your turn, but before your turn seems fine.

It seems one good mill piece in play would generally do enough work, so I'm curious whether you've had a plethora of targets and think reducing the mill package would be fine, or whether the amount of mill you're currently playing seems good.

Though as further mill/unblockable, Krydle of Baldur's Gate

Tempted at all to play Rise of the Dark Realms or similar as a finisher and to further take advantage of what you've milled? I'm thinking for games where the first gameplan isn't really firing off due to lack of targets, and just swinging with sword-holding tokens is taking too long.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@kraus911 I've only played it a couple times so I can't say for sure, but I don't think celestial judgment has to be one-sided to be good. If you leave the opponents with a few less-relevant creatures that seems fine. Individual priority targets can usually be killed by targeted removal, so it's more of a thinning-the-herd card that doesn't affect me.

Perplexing test seems okay, although I'm not in love with it. A lot of the time, when you really want a wipe it's because someone has a bunch of tokens, which creates a conflict of interest, and even if that's not the case you're still bouncing your commander. That's why I like CJ since it's unlikely to set you back at all.

Krydle is way too expensive to activate and not a token. I'd rather run, idk, Key to the City to name a card I drafted last FNM.

RotDR is probably fine, but I don't like cards that can overshadow my primary game plan. It'd be way too easy for the whole plan to change from drawing that card, and that's not what I want this deck to do. If I wanted to reanimate enemy creatures I'd play Geth, Lord of the Vault or something.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

Chromaticus
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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

What do you think about The Scarab God?

Get the benefits of mill plus they turn into tokens.

kraus911
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Post by kraus911 » 1 year ago

Lethal Scheme and Mask of Riddles made it into my version. I know Scheme might be questionable because without vigilance you have to convoke/connive without attacking, but I like how connive lets you specifically bump up a creature.

Considering recursion/from the gy options as I mill myself. Of course my cassette player lets me play regrowth effects from other people's gy, but having some of my own seems like it would help resilience. Codex Shredder isn't "amazing" as it's really slow mill and an expensive regrowth, but opportunity cost is pretty low. Said // Done catches my eye as a way to get a mill card back to hand or tap down a couple of blockers. Sevinne's Reclamation is very goodstuffy, but gets back quite a few pieces and flashback is nice if I mill it. Corpse Cobble has my interest as well as a flashback card that can make whatever size menace zombie I want out of a bunch of tokens. Now that I'm thinking about flashback, good old Snapcaster Mage doubles up most of the mill spells. Speaking of oldies but goodies, Mystical Teachings is a high cmc tutor, but also an instant so potentially playable. Flashback also gives me a way to trigger Soundwave's token production from the gy.

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Post by Haman » 6 months ago

I finally made soundwave. It is up there along with tetsuo as one of the few vrry hard deck to build and play properly.

Qn: i did not run as much tutors, just normal card drawers. Would yr listing struggling with little cards in hand?

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