Is Neon Dynasty one of the greats?

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RxPhantom
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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

I know the set just came out, but I have to admit: I really love it. The mechanics, art, limited, etc. are all home runs for me. I also think it's quite the feat that they managed to salvage Kamigawa without destroying its identity*. The reception front the player base at large seems to be positive too. I haven't been this enamored with a set since Khans of Tarkir and before that, Innistrad.

What say you, Nexus? Does Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty earn a spot among the greats? Am I way off base? Do you feel the urge to insult my intelligence while proclaiming Alliances to be Magic's peak? Lemme hear it.

* - I admit that quite a few things were changed/augmented, perhaps past the point of recognition in some areas, but much of it felt very much like OG Kamigawa.
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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 2 years ago

Flavor wise- I think it was awesome they could work in oringal Kamigawa into Neo- Kamigawa as the traditional side of the modern vs traditional conflict they set up. For years on his blog Maro noted a return to Kamigawa would mean a full flavor and mechanical reboot and having the original setting still being there is a lot more then I except from a return.

This also lets the plane have more diversity in its themes, you can draw from shinto mythology and other Japanes culture to the anime/managa trope to the sci-fi cyberpunk elements and can have a better chance to lead to a return as if one aspect isn't popular they can always tone it down and focus on another the other aspects. And yet its all still gels as its all based on stuff in Japanese culture and overplayed with magics own lore.

Also awesome they really tried to make this set more authentic than last time to the source inspiration and tried to get Japanese people involved in the process as much as they could. Not only does it help with better representation it also leads to the world feeling deeper.

Mechanic wise- Yeah I have three decks that heavily wanted cards from this set, a Yuriko commander deck, a Kykar vehicle deck that I wanted to build and was just wanting more U support and a non-commander enchantment deck that loves the enchantment creatures and the flip sagas.

I think its really is a fun top-down design to have modern vs traditional being shown with artifacts vs enchantments and glad to see enchantment creature outside of Theros. I personally also like vehicles and sagas so those being used as themes are neat to see.

I think modify is great and wouldn't be surprised if we see it more in the future as most sets like equipment, auras and counters and is a nice glue to tie a few sets themes together.

This also started some with Kaldheim but I like the slow burn we are see of the phyrexia storyline show through mechanics. We had Vorniclex show up and while Kaya and co didn't know who he was, we the audience knew what this meant. Similar thing happened with Kamigawa with Tamiyo and completed. It fixes one issues with phyrexia mana by having more of a downside than just 2 life per phyrexia mana as the walker will ender with less loyalty. It also very clearly shows that the new phyrexian have learned how to complete a planeswalker and by it being a keyword and such we as the audience (even with out Jin's statement in the story) know Tamiyo won't be the only one. I think this been a great use of story and gameplay working together and love to see more. (I'd like to say Liliana's card in Strixhaven was also used well in this aspect with showing it was Liliana under a different name).


Not sure how well this set will shake out but I personally really enjoy Neo- Kamigawa and personally also think they did a good job of rebooting Kamigawa as a world and really set it up for more returns which I hope we will see. Not sure it will be in the top of planes but I do think from the reaction of people its will there with Theros or and one of the better newer worlds with Eldraine and Kaldheim.
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Post by void_nothing » 2 years ago

It's up there for me. "One of the greats"? Too early for me to make that call on a personal level. I like the set a whole lot from a variety of perspectives, that's for certain. Only time will tell if it'll be anything like Invasion block, original Ravnica, original Zendikar, original Innistrad, Scars, or Khans though.
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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

I forgot to mention it in the OP, but Neon Dynasty also reinvigorated my efforts to complete my JumpStart cube. There are so many cards that just seemed super cool for one reason or another, and they got my wheels turning. Stuff like Rabbit Battery, Satsuki, the Living Lore, Roadside Reliquary, and Inventive Iteration // Living Breakthrough had me brainstorming all kinds of archetypes to put them in. It's been awesome, and I'll be updating my thread.
void_nothing wrote:
2 years ago
It's up there for me. "One of the greats"? Too early for me to make that call on a personal level. I like the set a whole lot from a variety of perspectives, that's for certain. Only time will tell if it'll be anything like Invasion block, original Ravnica, original Zendikar, original Innistrad, Scars, or Khans though.
I thought it might be too early, but I'm really taken with the set. Also, it's cool to see Scars block get some recognition.
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Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

Maybe! Only time will tell. Khans of Tarkir felt great. Played great and was a great design but I feel outisde fetches there are like 3 or 4 relevant cards in it. Time will tell.

I just wish they'd explore other cultures/styles. We've got japanese versions/inspired in Kamigawa, Stx and War. And a bunch of other players/regions get nothing

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Post by motleyslayer » 2 years ago

I think it's too early to say if the set is one of the "all time greats" but the set feels great so far. It doesn't have many cards that stand out as broken, but they've managed to find a mix of cards that will be fun in commander and a few roleplayers in other formats

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 2 years ago

Something also not brought up is Kamigawa 2 had the bulk of its design and development done under covid lockdowns. The next few years will be interesting to see how the sets look and play.
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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

5colorsrainbow wrote:
2 years ago
Something also not brought up is Kamigawa 2 had the bulk of its design and development done under covid lockdowns. The next few years will be interesting to see how the sets look and play.
Hmmm....that's an interesting point. I will say that this year's slate looks so much cooler than last year's. I remember that announcement day being a real letdown, and I was right, which leads me to another point...

It feels good to feel so positively about a set. For me, 2021 was dull. None of the standard legal sets spoke to me, but here we are with Neon Dynasty and I feel like I felt when Innistrad came out. It feels great, and while I'm a little skeptical on Capenna, Dominaria United and the Brothers War have me very, very stoked.

I couldn't resist telling Maro about how much I love NEO.
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Post by Venedrex » 2 years ago

RxPhantom wrote:
2 years ago
5colorsrainbow wrote:
2 years ago
Something also not brought up is Kamigawa 2 had the bulk of its design and development done under covid lockdowns. The next few years will be interesting to see how the sets look and play.
Hmmm....that's an interesting point. I will say that this year's slate looks so much cooler than last year's. I remember that announcement day being a real letdown, and I was right, which leads me to another point...

It feels good to feel so positively about a set. For me, 2021 was dull. None of the standard legal sets spoke to me, but here we are with Neon Dynasty and I feel like I felt when Innistrad came out. It feels great, and while I'm a little skeptical on Capenna, Dominaria United and the Brothers War have me very, very stoked.

I couldn't resist telling Maro about how much I love NEO.
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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

Venedrex wrote:
2 years ago
RxPhantom wrote:
2 years ago
5colorsrainbow wrote:
2 years ago
Something also not brought up is Kamigawa 2 had the bulk of its design and development done under covid lockdowns. The next few years will be interesting to see how the sets look and play.
Hmmm....that's an interesting point. I will say that this year's slate looks so much cooler than last year's. I remember that announcement day being a real letdown, and I was right, which leads me to another point...

It feels good to feel so positively about a set. For me, 2021 was dull. None of the standard legal sets spoke to me, but here we are with Neon Dynasty and I feel like I felt when Innistrad came out. It feels great, and while I'm a little skeptical on Capenna, Dominaria United and the Brothers War have me very, very stoked.

I couldn't resist telling Maro about how much I love NEO.
My reaction while waking up this morning before work and checking Blogatog over my non-existent coffee:
SPOILER
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SPOILER
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[spoiler/]
:rofl: I couldn't resist! I'm not a gushing fanboy normally.
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Post by void_nothing » 2 years ago

That's how I am when I see Kryptnyt making a funny youtube comment or emily having a meme post blow up.
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Post by Venedrex » 2 years ago

In all seriousness though, I have been very happy with NEO so far on the surface. I haven't had a chance to play with the new cards yet, but I like the set design a lot.
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Post by motleyslayer » 2 years ago

5colorsrainbow wrote:
2 years ago
Something also not brought up is Kamigawa 2 had the bulk of its design and development done under covid lockdowns. The next few years will be interesting to see how the sets look and play.
I didn't know that but now I'm even more excited to see how it impacts the game going forward.

Not sure if it's nostalgia but I still really like this set

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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 years ago

My theory is that wizards pulls out all the stops when they know they're doing something risky. For one, risky ideas without champions, designers who will argue with higher-ups to make them, don't get made. So while "hey, let's do Ravnica/Zendikar/Innistrad again" can get buy-in with minimal effort, someone making Neon Dynasty has to have a vision they really care about. In addition, the awareness of the risk seems to make everyone put in some extra effort, from art direction to designing Limited archetypes. They're already on shaky ground with the plane, so everything else has to be quality. Lastly, the paucity of known winners from Kamigawa means it can't go through the same attrition as other worlds. They did Ninjas, Shrines, Spirit dragons and legends matter, but those alone cannot support a set. So they had to dig around in the things that failed, and figure out ways to improve and rework them. This is how we got references to the damage-based exile theme, and channel, and the land-bouncing. All these weird little niches that make the world feel vast.

That last reason is probably why I like this set so much. It's the first revisit since Scars that made the world seem bigger than when we saw it first.

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Post by motleyslayer » 2 years ago

Kamigawa definitely seems bigger and possibly even totally different than when we saw it last. I guess they had to take that risk to make it different, as it was really poorly received first time around

a lot of why I was so happy/excited to see the return was nostalgia. I started playing not long after Darksteel, so Kamigawa was my first new world as a 13ish year old kid

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
2 years ago
That last reason is probably why I like this set so much. It's the first revisit since Scars that made the world seem bigger than when we saw it first.
I really wanted to zero in on this because I think it's right on target. Scars block didn't feel bound or beholden to its previous block, and it was terrific. Return trips to planes have definitely suffered from diminishing returns since then. I'm so sick of the big 3 at this point that we could never go back and I'd be happy. I hate that I feel that way about Innistrad especially. It's also strange because I didn't feel particularly strongly about Kamigawa the first time around, but I'm enamored with NEO.
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Post by folding_music » 2 years ago

I think Neon Destiny is balanced high, well-illustrated, full of canned strategies which seem viable and none of the mechanics are complete outcasts. but I don't know whether that's what I like about the game. guess it helps pauper out a ton? applicability to Commander has become less of a concern for me because there's *SO MANY CARDS ALREADY* that yr just waiting for gaps to get filled in, and when they do it's usually with a regretably heavy-handed approach which blows yr old cards to smithereens. updating a dependable deck right now seems depressing.

like:
vehicles - this is the set which really sells them to me
ratsies and trinkets everywhere
Experimental Synthesizer <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

dislike:
the new planeswalkers being overstuffed with value & most of the top cards being legendary
no Spirit continuation - wasn't hoping for a Tribal set so much as some beautiful Soulshift payoff (and ideally one which wasn't more legend bait lol)
samurais are boring here, they should be like Stubborn Guy Fated to Die trope warriors, here's a static ability I designed for them:
"Stubborn -- When a stubborn creature could attack or block, it does. Whenever a spell, ability or cost makes you sacrifice at least one creature, you must sacrifice a stubborn creature."

not good or bad:
high streamlined power level
no arcane. slight pang of regret followed by shrug. the ability is called "Arcane" - making it work should feel arcane lol
the theme (I love cyberpunk but this set seems like the image of that spliced onto comic book writing, as ever)

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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 years ago

folding_music wrote:
2 years ago
"Stubborn -- When a stubborn creature could attack or block, it does. Whenever a spell, ability or cost makes you sacrifice at least one creature, you must sacrifice a stubborn creature."
From a mechanical standpoint, a pure downside mechanic with little synergy, not to mention one that actively takes key decisions away from the player, is worse along almost every axis than a decent Limited tribal subtheme. From a flavor standpoint, it's not particularly in keeping with the broader themes in the set, and beyond that making a whole mechanic fixating on suicidal behavior in the top-down Japan set is in incredibly poor taste.

I don't love the samurai theme this go-around, but it's fun when it comes together in limited, and opens up some new voltron routes in EDH (a strategy that's fallen by the wayside with power creep) without contributing to power creep itself. Trying to force every neat Limited theme into a multi-format breakout is how you get another Eldraine. I for one am very glad Neon Dynasty was not another Eldraine.

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Post by folding_music » 2 years ago

sorry if that was was insensitive. I was thinking of Samurai being dutybound and restricted in their own autonomy, being big on honor and all that. not sure what angle you're referring to.

Naturally that type of ability'd take choices away from the player but in return the creatures could be BIG for their cmc. kinda miss how that used to be a thing, large stats with disadvantage, and Samurai flavor-wise make more sense to me that way.

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Post by The N82O Molecule » 2 years ago

if I may add some more cents to the pile, but no not common sense, far from that, so so far

I for one have always been a advocate for the return to Kamigawa, and im also a advocate for 2 but 3 is to many. the third time we go back to planes seems to be just a "scoutch" to much. Innistrad had the same treatment, third time? oof, even though id think we are going back to Ravnica a 4th time. that is unless Capenna becomes the new "city" but without guilds. after all the undercity of Ravnica was always the coolest part.

anyway anyway

if Kamigawa is now the plane for vehicles and shrines im not for it. (I feel like there is so much left on the table) I find it a little peculiar that they were designing a vehicle/enchantment/artifact set and it merged with Kamigawa so well. the sagas turning into enchantment creatures is a little far fetched imo but im not going to find a finger to point. so, was the "essence" of Kamigawa maintained? I guess I always thought the tension between the "spirit plane" and the "human plane" was where its at and honestly im not sure the old was kept. I think we have a new Kamigawa and if we ever doo return that it'll be a vehicle plane and not. . .I don't know. . maybe im saying I only like it half haha

I do like mech and vehicle seems a great way for flavor, so mobile suit gundam Kamigawa where the spirit realm is "space" and there turns a political battle about who should hold the power and maybe our first "gundam" can only be crewed by a tapped planes walker haha

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

I actually liked the samurai/warrior archetype. Obviously it harkens back to exalted, but the individual payoffs are varied enough, and the backwards compatibility with warriors is cool. Of course, I'm shaping up to be a Neon Dynasty apologist, so maybe I'm biased.

When it comes to the sci-fi aspect, I do really like it, but it's about as far as I'd like Magic to go, at least...I think so. Cyberpunk makes MTG's swords-and-sandals aesthetic seem stodgy. We are going to a 20's/30's art deco world next, so maybe I'm ready for some relative modernity. I'm conflicted.
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Post by motleyslayer » 2 years ago

I really liked the rewards for attacking alone, especially in the RW colour combination. They did good at making the payoffs unique enough.

I think the consensus seems to be it's a fun set

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Post by RxPhantom » 2 years ago

I've been cogitating on this for a while, but after more than a month, I'm still confident that Neon Dynasty is indeed one of the best sets ever made. I'm still so impressed by this set that I'm not even a little interested in New Capenna at this point.
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Post by ghazestor » 1 year ago

I haven't had a chance to play with the new cards yet, but I like the set design a lot.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

the set design is amazing. Really feels like they modernized the old world into something fresh.

don't have any cards yet from this set. But I would play them if I have some.
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