Sefris of the Kind of Obvious Ways


yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Smashadams83 wrote:
1 year ago
Hello, I've been playing sefris a ton lately and it has turned into one of my favorite decks. I'm primarily using magister Sphinx and archfiend of despair as ways to close games out. The amount of value sefris provides is really great. I don't have any infinite combos in the deck (that I tutor for) and I've found that blink effects like eerie interlude , glorious protector , and cosmic intervention have been amazing. If I resolve one of these in response to a wipe, I will almost certainly win the game as i can pull ahead with my etb effects and venture further. Also living death is amazing and so is incarnation technique. Here is my deck list

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/bJiqv7PY_0aQciQXiyEeDg

I love sefris and enjoy chatting about this deck so lmk if you have any questions about it ! I also put a brief primer/description in the decklist to explain some of my thought process with inclusions in the list.
Had a whole reply that disappeared.

Anyway, hey Smash! I'm Schmendrick over at the Queen's Discord. We've talked Sefris there as well.

I have a more up-to-date list here: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/pidOkfkEXEes3DPDHboZmA
Living Death is in there, and it's fantastic, although a little less good than in some of my other decks that run more sac outlets.

I've got Thassa for blinking, and have been weighing adding 1-3 more effects. Deciding amongst: I don't want too many of the effects, and initially didn't feel like I needed the mass slide ones, since the deck rebuilds so well, but I've found that while that's true, it makes the game go longer. For the sakes of both enjoyment and time (the LGS has 60 min rounds), I'm thinking I want one or two of these to try and keep the momentum going.

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Post by Smashadams83 » 1 year ago

Oh why hello lol. Didn't realize that was you lol! I joined mtgnexus today just to comment here !

Chromaticus
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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

My favorite thing about your deck is the Sphinx subtheme — that's a lot of fun! I imagine searching up Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign is the second priority for Netherborn Phalanx if you've already snagged Radiant Solar.

I goldfished a few hands, and the lands felt a little light. How does it feel in games for hitting land drops?

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

I have really been liking a couple initiative cards. My Sefris deck plays 4 looters + Teferi, Master of Time, so I'm heavy on looting.

White Plume Adventurer has been excellent untapping my looters every upkeep. Turns them into turbo dungeoneers.
Ravenloft Adventurer is just a grave-hate slot that triggers initiative to get me into the Undercity.
Rilsa Rael, Kingpin may be my favorite initiative card due to the huge pump and evasion. One of my favorite creatures to get from the grave is Zetalpa, Primal Dawn, and I was able to get it with Rilsa Rael and turn it into a 9/8 indestructible, vigilance, double striking, nigh-unblockable, monster of a threat.

Only got through the Undercity once. Was able to complete a dungeon immediately before my turn and had White Plume Adventurer ready when I wasn't currently in a dungeon. Didn't take too long to get through undercity with 2 looters and White Plume active. Funny thing was I already binned most of my bombs so when it was complete, the only creature in my top 10 was Shriekmaw. But the +1/+1 counters turned it into a 6/5 fear which wasn't the worst thing.

Doom Whisperer was a card I didn't think about and is excellent for this deck. I misplaced my Sphinx of the steel wind, so I need another one of those as a good life-linker. That way I can offset the life payment.

Lastly, since my deck is on the casual side, reanimating big overcosted bombs from years past, I actually like the +1/+1 counter in Lost Mine. Zetalpa, Primal Dawn or Radiant Solar getting a +1/+1 counter makes them considerably better. So would Sphinx of the Steel Wind once it gets in there. The 2 +1/+1 counters in Undercity is what I went for to try and save Radiant Solar from a Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter activation, but ultimately it failed.

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

I haven't tried Rilsa yet, and I guess if you're mostly just reanimating big creatures to swing with, it makes sense to make them bigger and harder to block.

The two initiative cards I'm using right now are Sarevok's Tome and Seasoned Dungeoneer. White Plume I'd considered, but as nice as the effect is with some looters, it doesn't do a whole lot otherwise. Psuedo-vigilance is nice, but I don't know that I'd call it a necessity. Meanwhile, Tome is never dead as a mana rock, and its activated ability is very strong. Dungeoneer helps get through for damage, which is especially useful for getting back the initiative if lost, can let us functionally loot the top card of our library, or draw it if it's a land, and can grow Sefris.

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

1 day out of the box and I'm already thinking about edits…

That is what these forums are though, really :D

Incarnation Technique - just a great way to kickstart the mid-game if nothing has been going on or if my yard got removed.
Gilded Drake - especially combined with sac outlets!
Agent of Treachery - gets dirty quickly. Probably stronger than Ashen Rider for instance.
Reanimate - yep
Venser, Shaper Savant - similar to the evoke counterspell guy.
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician Physician - free sac outlet, discard outlet.
Viscera Seer - free sac
Carrion Feeder - free sac
Putrid Imp [/card] - free discard
Animate Dead - more reanimating

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Post by Smashadams83 » 1 year ago

What is the plan with gilded drake and sac outlets ? Saccing a creature you steal ? Drake doesnt work if you sac it in response to the trigger on the stack.

Chromaticus
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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

Good to know, reading is clutch! Might still be worth getting it in there, even if I can't make it a total wash for the opponent.

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
Good to know, reading is clutch! Might still be worth getting it in there, even if I can't make it a total wash for the opponent.
Unless you're playing cEDH, I think there are better options for theft/removal to run in a reanimator deck. The deep discount for the effect disappears after you cast it. It's still somewhat worthwhile with a Sun Titan around, but not so much that I'd bother with it when you could just remove the creature most of the time.

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

I'm not sure that I agree - certainly stealing my opponent's Winota, Joiner of Forces is better than removing it and letting them recast it - same deal for a Klauth, Unrivaled Ancient or Old Gnawbone. The stealing element has got to be better than Shriekmaw or what have you.

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Sure, but my point was you can play better theft effects in a reanimator deck. Also, how often are you running into Winota in non-cEDH? In terms of killing vs stealing commanders, sure, theft is better. For general high impact creatures we're also a reanimate deck. You could just as easily put in some general reanimate spells that can steal from other yards, and run removal instead of theft. If there's a universal hatebear out, stealing it doesn't help, as an example.

I just feel like removal is going to be useful more often than anything but the best theft (Agent), and if we're already running reanimation spells, changing those to be able to steal from any yard isn't hard. I run Body Double for example.

For me, at least, I feel like the deck, once it gets rolling, can be oppressive enough without adding theft to the mix, but that's personal preference.

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

After playing the deck a few times, I am considering adding the Pokken inspired ramp catch-up plan in place of some of the generic value stuff. I've been finding myself mana-starved, especially when I want to recast my commander. The package also naturally doubles as protection from her biting the dust, which happened a LOT in my test games.

Thinking:


yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

I honestly don't feel like all that is necessary. I admit that I haven't had too many games where Sefris gets removed often (enough), but there's also a suite of reanimation effects to get it back when it gets pricey. I also make a treasure token when going through Lost Mine, and often don't use them.

The bounce lands felt slow to me. Lotus Vale I would never run unless I knew for certain there would never be any land destruction, and even then, the commander requires 3 different colors, so sacrificing two lands to make 3 of one color isn't necessarily very good.

Other than that Brought Back and Intervention are decent, especially if you have more sac outlets so you can use them to recur ETBs more readily. Sevinne's is certainly worthwhile for the ability to bring back Sefris easily.

Keeper looks slow and clunky to me. Ditto for Archaeomancer's Map. Double white for KotWO looks rough for early ramp in a 3 color deck where white is not the primary color, and later on, I'd rather be spending mana some other way, though I like this slightly better than Warhound since it can get a nonbasic Plains and can be recurred with Reveillark if that's what you really want . I'd think. I find that I rarely miss land drops thanks to the draw the deck can get rolling.

I do like Malakir Rebirth as protection for Sefris/reusing an ETB creature, but holding up is easier than holding up , or even after foretelling. I think I've probably used every reanimation effect in the deck to return Sefris at one point or another.

All of that said, if you do try this stuff out, please do report back on how it works. Maybe my assessment is off-base.

Chromaticus
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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

The problem might be me. Are you typically playing out Sefris on turn 3 without an engine in place, or do you wait until you can start chugging?

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

So, I rarely drop Sefris unless I have something going on. Ideally, I'm looking at a looter on turn 2, Sefris on 3, get first trigger.
If I have something that ventures on its own, I'll usually drop that first, and get a couple rooms in before bringing out Sefris unless I have cards in hand to trigger and need Sefris in play.

Generally, I want to be able to get at least one Sefris trigger the turn it comes out. An exception is if I have no early drops, but do have Seasoned Dungeoneer or Pathlighter in hand. I'll play Sefris on curve, then one of those on curve and swing with Sefris for a trigger (hopefully).

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

I'm curious if you're still playing this bad boy?

I'm thinking about tossing Shorikai, Genesis Engine into mine, because every gameplay video I've seen with that card, it just works insanely well. Here, we get the added boon of discarding a creature for venture power.

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

Played a great game with the deck that highlighted Cosmic Intervention and the other cards I put in to abuse it.

Turn 2 Lightning Greaves
Turn 3 Nadaar, Selfless Paladin
Turn 4 Ghostly Pilferer and foretell Cosmic Intervention
Turn 5 Play Cosmic Intervention. Discard Agent of Treachery and Mulldrifter. Play Lotus Vale. Play Necromancy at flash speed. Return Agent, steal battle angels of tyr. End of turn, agent is sacrificed, then necromancy goes to the graveyard. Lands sacced return.
My opponent's next end step, I get back agent of treachery and necromancy targeting mulldrifter.

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
I'm curious if you're still playing this bad boy?

I'm thinking about tossing Shorikai, Genesis Engine into mine, because every gameplay video I've seen with that card, it just works insanely well. Here, we get the added boon of discarding a creature for venture power.
I'm not getting to play much Magic these days, but Sefris is still in the rotation, yeah. Shorikai is interesting. It's a perfect looting effect for us (it's card advantage, rather than card neutral), but 5 mana for the first effect seems like a lot, especially on a non-creature, so it can't be recurred. Let me know how it goes!

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
Played a great game with the deck that highlighted Cosmic Intervention and the other cards I put in to abuse it.

Turn 2 Lightning Greaves
Turn 3 Nadaar, Selfless Paladin
Turn 4 Ghostly Pilferer and foretell Cosmic Intervention
Turn 5 Play Cosmic Intervention. Discard Agent of Treachery and Mulldrifter. Play Lotus Vale. Play Necromancy at flash speed. Return Agent, steal battle angels of tyr. End of turn, agent is sacrificed, then necromancy goes to the graveyard. Lands sacced return.
My opponent's next end step, I get back agent of treachery and necromancy targeting mulldrifter.
That's quite the sequence!

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

Played a game last night where Teferi, Master of Time was able to loot every turn with no removal targeting me. Completing a dungeon every cycle turns out to be very good!

Brought Back was an all star, ramping 2 off of two fetches.

With those two cards rolling, it really could have been anything else in the mix - but what showed up was Radiant Solar, Glen Elendra Archmage (man she's busted here!) Syr Konrad, the Grim and Spark Double on Sefris of the Hidden Ways.

My opponents did not have great threat assessment though, so it was a bit of a steamroll. The only player who could have put up a fight I was phasing out his commander every rotation with Teferi.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Yeah, I've recently added Teferi and had it show up in two games where it performed very well, and one game where I got one use out of it before it got removed (good assessment).

I'm pretty light on non-creatures, and I haven't committed many slots to stuff like Brought Back. I don't run many sac outlets, so the only times I'd be able to use that on creatures would be from them dying to removal or combat damage, and I don't know that I'd want to devote a deck slot to something I have so little control over. That said, ramping with fetches is nice.

That's a very strong group of cards to have show up.

I've found that oftentimes Sefris flies under the radar for too long. Have had a few games where someone could have removed Sefris early, but didn't for one reason or another until it was too late. That said, I've also had a few games that went the other way, where I couldn't keep my commander on the board for even 1 turn, and basically did nothing all game.

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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

It's odd because I don't think she falls into the category of a kill on sight commander - even one completed dungeon isn't exactly doing something crazy.

I think the issue is that the engine starts greasing itself- and by the time you should kill Sefris of the Hidden Ways, the other stuff is way stronger. Like, do you kill Sefris of the Hidden Ways when Radiant Solar is in play? What about Syr Konrad, the Grim?

By the time you look like you're ahead, you're unstoppably ahead.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

I don't know about kill on sight, but I'd definitely make a point to kill Sefris with the final dungeon trigger on the stack if there's anything valuable in the graveyard.

I have a few pieces in the deck, like Reveillark that can recur Sefris, some creatures that can protect Sefris, and the clones, so when players finally get around to trying to remove my commander, I often have some way of negating that. And with the way the deck builds back after a wipe, it can be a little oppressive.

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Post by Petar_Enev » 1 year ago

Hey, I've been playing Sefris for the last year or so. It's my favourite deck to run so far and I keep updating and twitching it constantly to find the optimal list.
I don't run any infinite combos and tutors (apart from Entomb) but have a great amount of removal and protection fro my board. I try to overwhelm my opponents with sticky board presence and card advantage.

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/XaUdXGyiCk-1_i6FIMZBEA

I wonder what is currently your package of big reanimation targets - 7+ mana cost?
How many do you run in your decklist before they become too much - meaning you'r running into the danger of mulliganing to much starting hands?

My package (5):
  • Agent of Treachery - point removal + draw
  • Angel of the Ruins - pint removal + useful early
  • Elesh Norn, Grand... - mass removal
  • Toxirill, the Corrosive - mass removal + draw
  • Serra's Emissary - my latest discovery! Just awesome when you choose "creatures". Makes you invulnerable to combat damage, your creatures are unblockable and protected from all ETB removal type effects. Funniest play ever: reanimated it at instant speed with 2 triggers of Gix, Yawgmoth Preators' second ability on the stack targeting me. :)

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 year ago

Petar_Enev wrote:
1 year ago
Hey, I've been playing Sefris for the last year or so. It's my favourite deck to run so far and I keep updating and twitching it constantly to find the optimal list.
I don't run any infinite combos and tutors (apart from Entomb) but have a great amount of removal and protection fro my board. I try to overwhelm my opponents with sticky board presence and card advantage.

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/XaUdXGyiCk-1_i6FIMZBEA

I wonder what is currently your package of big reanimation targets - 7+ mana cost?
How many do you run in your decklist before they become too much - meaning you'r running into the danger of mulliganing to much starting hands?

My package (5):
  • Agent of Treachery - point removal + draw
  • Angel of the Ruins - pint removal + useful early
  • Elesh Norn, Grand... - mass removal
  • Toxirill, the Corrosive - mass removal + draw
  • Serra's Emissary - my latest discovery! Just awesome when you choose "creatures". Makes you invulnerable to combat damage, your creatures are unblockable and protected from all ETB removal type effects. Funniest play ever: reanimated it at instant speed with 2 triggers of Gix, Yawgmoth Preators' second ability on the stack targeting me. :)
Hey! Glad to see another Sefris player.

I'm leaning away from infinites myself with the only one in the list being Reveillark + Karmic Guide + Viscera Seer, but I don't look for it, and each of the cards is excellent on its own here.

I think I'm running more big reanimation targets than you are, and it looks like you're running waaaay more small self-sacrificing utility creatures than I am. I'm sure some are very useful in keeping Sefris alive (and I just picked up Linvala to add to the deck), but it seems like a lot of the creatures are pretty low impact. Slithermuse looks interesting, and I might try to track a few games to see how often it would have been a useful card. Certainly it's strong if you're behind and someone is chock full of cards, but I suspect any of the creatures that draw 2+ cards on ETB/death would be more consistently useful.

How has Shorikai been? I was just discussing that one with another Sefris player, but felt like 5 mana to get your first activation seemed like a lot, and it not being a creature had me feeling lackluster toward it.

I had tried Serra's Emissary for a bit, and it was AMAZING. Had one game where I discarded it in response to a lethal Crackle with Power, reanimated it off the Sefris trigger, and named 'sorceries' to save myself, which felt super cool. That said, I felt like it being set to 'creatures' was just too overwhelming an advantage for the level of play I was bringing this deck out for, and ended up cutting it.

Elesh Norn is a solid card, and is under consideration, though it also is very unfun to play against.
Toxrill is kind of in the same boat, but also can be slow.

Agent of Treachery is something I see suggested a lot, but I have a couple issues with it here:
1) if the card an opponent controls has a negative static effect (like Rest In Peace), stealing it doesn't help.
2) theft, especially repeated theft tends to make for more unpleasant play experiences than outright removal
3) you either need to reanimate/flicker Agent a few times to get the draw, or else need to be running more theft in the deck
4) unless you're stealing big threats, the card itself isn't a threat at 7 mana

I have some adjustments I'll be making in the next week or so (such as adding Linvala), but my big impact reanimation targets are:
*Ashen Rider - similar to Agent, but removes the card, has a death trigger to do the same (relevant in a game recently where ETBs were disabled by the new Elesh Norn), and is itself a decent threat as a 5/5 flyer
*Archon of Cruelty - flying threat that acts as card advantage, life gain, removal, life drain, and hand disruption
*Archfiend of Despair - closes games out FAST, and often kills players much sooner than expected
*Magister Sphinx - same
*Cataclysmic Gearhulk - often going to be at least as useful as Elesh Norn for board wipe purposes, sometimes will be worse, and sometimes will be significantly stronger (removing multiple bigger creatures, and non-creature permanents)

I think my creature suite tends to be focused on providing either interaction or card advantage on a body, while yours has a lot more protection, and some preference for self-sacrifice. My deck often plays a bit like a soft control deck, removing key threats, keeping players in check as I build up, and preventing them from disrupting my game plan too much.

Overall, I'd say I'm leaning more into reanimation value than you are (if you look at our curves, yours is heavily weighted to 2 CMC, while mine is heavily weighted to 4+). My figuring is if the plan is to aim for reanimating one creature per turn cycle, I may as well have valuable stuff to bring back. The small utility creatures are great, and help the deck function, but I'd rather try and recur those with something like Sun Titan, or in a pinch for a specific purpose, than be focused on recycling them, especially since the deck feels durdly even when reanimating flying beatsticks.

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