Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I do not understand the interest in Dawnbringer Cleric - that thing is buns. It could have cost W and I still would never play it. If you want graveyard hate play something purpose built like Remorseful Cleric. The lifegain modes and the enchantment killing modes are just too bad and narrow respectively.

If it killed artifacts or enchantments at 2W it would have me interested.

It is undoubtedly a great common though, I realize it's held back by its rarity - unfortunately that's disturbingly "common" in white that they give white nice new arrays of effects that would be nice if they were at uncommon or rare.

(the ones that occur to me recently are the 5 mana Reclamation Sage elepehant and the weird crappy Sun Titan wannabe guy at uncommon that had it been a rare and been slightly more pushed mana-wise would have been great (Shepherd of the Cosmos?)

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

Serenade wrote:
2 years ago
Also me: Well, I gotta try Moon-Blessed Cleric in enchantment decks.
now i really NEED a copy of Divine Intervention
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Post by NZB2323 » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
NZB2323 wrote:
2 years ago
In Winota I cut charming prince for War Priest of Thune, because Overwhelming Splendor absolutely destroys Winota
Of course you realise that war priest of thune can't destroy overwhelming splendor (on you)?
Yeah, I learned that the hard way but ended up keeping it in anyway.
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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
I do not understand the interest in Dawnbringer Cleric - that thing is buns. It could have cost W and I still would never play it. If you want graveyard hate play something purpose built like Remorseful Cleric.
It being an ETB rather than sac or another trigger is the whole reason I am interested in it for my flicker deck. I don't think it's amazing or should be a staple, but it does exactly what I've been wanting for a while now. Maybe it's just for me, for my deck and how I like to play it, but I find more happiness in that than in a splashy staple that everyone "should" play. EDH drew me in as a format of hidden gems, and in Dawnbringer Cleric, I've rediscovered a bit of that. To me, hidden gems aren't the cards you bought before they spiked, nor the ones you figure out how to break before everyone else, nor the ones that make the whole table look at you. They are humble, functional commons and uncommons.

I also prefer milder, modal hate cards, generally, because they feel more like removal, as opposed to shutting down someone's whole deck. The previous mentality around narrow answers was to provide an overwhelming reward for their risk. I find these cards to suck in both cases though, either as dead weight, or by debilitating someone's deck without actually winning. I would rather compensation for narrowness with multifunctionality, so that the card is neither as dead nor as deadening.

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Post by brainface » 2 years ago

I think I've been mostly humbugging this set so I want to counterbalance that.

Cards we haven't seen yet but have been referenced that I hope we get:

The behir off tasha's hideous laughter. Behir's one of those dumb butt monsters you only have in D&d. It's probably a reference to something else, I've literally never encountered one in a pen & paper game, but dangit now I want to play one in magic.

Vajra Safahr, the current The Blackstaff of Waterdeep holder. She was in a module I ran so I like her and would make a deck out of whatever card she was.

Not referenced, but still: any zhentarim. They've moved from nefarious villains to anti-heros who get things done and get paid in current d&d lore and I want cards. Likely they'd be more nostalgic mustache-twirling villains here, but still.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Wow, Oswald Fiddlebender is bananas. I really hope he's not broken lol...but he probably is.

Still, hard to begrudge a strong mono-white commander too much. Powerful in the 99 too.
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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 2 years ago

Ochre Jelly + Doubling Season + sacrifice outlet = all-you-can eat Ooze buffet.
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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Artifacthing pod?? Wow. That's...pretty bananas. That is so good it's hard to grasp. And 2 cmc recruiterable?

I don't know what I do with that but it might be all the things.

Equip greaves pod greaves into thousand year elixir untap pod elixir into....what else?

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Yeah, Oswald Fiddlebender looks amazing - artifact pod is sweet. It's also possible to jump the chain with affinity creatures, which is definitely open to abuse. Only one mana per activation means that combo / chaining nonsense isn't impossible either, and the base case of eating Mycosynth Wellspring for value isn't terrible. I definitely like the ability to fuel Salvaging Station shenanigans alongside any artifact land.

....I don't think I'm running enough artifacts in my Samut deck to break Oswald with untap shenanigans, but fueling graveyard shenanigans in Sharuum is definitely on the table. I do feel obligated to point out the fact that Arcum Dagsson exists, but not needing to deal with creature / noncreature artifacts makes Oswald a bit easier to use. Probably will also draw less hate, although we'll need to see....

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Post by Venedrex » 2 years ago

My initial reaction to Oswald Fiddlebender went something like this: "Hmm, a White Legendary, in a foreign language, lets check the translation. It's probably terrible but lets see what it is." After reading... *Insert trumpets and triumphant choral singing* WHITE GETS A GOOD LEGENDARY CREATURE!

It's a card that actually stands up to Uro, Koma, Kinnan, and every busted U/G commander that Wotc spits out every other set. Heck, it's even a gnome, which is awesome! Oh whoops almost forget to mention Vannifar. So hard to keep track of all the powerful Simic cards sometimes there's so many.
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Post by vandertroll » 2 years ago

Man the nostalgia level on this set is bonkers! The power level seems lowish until now, but I wish all sets were designed like this.
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Post by Igzex » 2 years ago

Tell me about it. I know whatever greedy Simic/Sultai commander player that has infiltrated Play Design is just waiting to spring their newest homewrecking commander card on us at any moment, but for right now I appreciate this more fun and flavorful approach to set design. These are cards that make me happy just to think about actually playing.

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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
2 years ago
Ochre Jelly + Doubling Season + sacrifice outlet = all-you-can eat Ooze buffet.
Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar = Infinite mana.

It's as good as the Sliver Queen + Heartstone + Ashnod's Altar infinite mana combo, but mono green, so easier to pull off. Now all you need is a good mana sink, such as a fireball or similar, and you're golden.
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
2 years ago
Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
2 years ago
Ochre Jelly + Doubling Season + sacrifice outlet = all-you-can eat Ooze buffet.
Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar = Infinite mana.

It's as good as the Sliver Queen + Heartstone + Ashnod's Altar infinite mana combo, but mono green, so easier to pull off. Now all you need is a good mana sink, such as a fireball or similar, and you're golden.
You don't get the tokens until your end step, so this isn't actually infinite. It does increase at a very fast rate though - doubling every turn means you'll have a ton of them when it gets back to you.

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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
Krishnath wrote:
2 years ago
Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
2 years ago
Ochre Jelly + Doubling Season + sacrifice outlet = all-you-can eat Ooze buffet.
Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar = Infinite mana.

It's as good as the Sliver Queen + Heartstone + Ashnod's Altar infinite mana combo, but mono green, so easier to pull off. Now all you need is a good mana sink, such as a fireball or similar, and you're golden.
You don't get the tokens until your end step, so this isn't actually infinite. It does increase at a very fast rate though - doubling every turn means you'll have a ton of them when it gets back to you.
I missed that part, still good though.
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

Not sure if just me but I haven't seen a single card that slots into my decks.
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 2 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
2 years ago
Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
2 years ago
Ochre Jelly + Doubling Season + sacrifice outlet = all-you-can eat Ooze buffet.
Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar = Infinite mana.

It's as good as the Sliver Queen + Heartstone + Ashnod's Altar infinite mana combo, but mono green, so easier to pull off. Now all you need is a good mana sink, such as a fireball or similar, and you're golden.
Hurricane. Add in a splash of incidental lifegain on some other cards (Shamanic Revelation etc) and there ya go, in mono green.
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Post by Guardman » 2 years ago

Zariel, Archduke of Avernus is an interesting mono-red planeswalker since it has three useful, if not overly strong, abilities. In particular, I am interested in the haste granting and extra combat, as both seem like they would do great in my Etali, Primal Storm deck since they are technically on "curve". Other than that, I've mostly been interested in all the modal cards, since most are pretty aggressively costed compared to modal spells in the past and I've never had a problem with paying a slight premium for choice.

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Post by UnfulfilledDesires » 2 years ago

I like Dawnbringer Cleric for blink & ETB decks. I've long considered playing Monk Realist & company, but found the effect a little too narrow. This pushes it over the edge. In my experience, enchantments are one of the scariest permanent types in the format. Being able to remove a Mirari's Wake or Rhystic Study or whatever for 1W with the option for mild graveyard hate instead seems solid. The life gain should only rarely come up but could be nice in a pinch. With my Rasputin Dreamweaver deck, it'd at least let me gain unbounded life when comboing off with Eldrazi Displacer if I didn't have another outlet. & of course destroy all opposing enchantments & exile all opposing graveyards.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
2 years ago
Krishnath wrote:
2 years ago
Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
2 years ago
Ochre Jelly + Doubling Season + sacrifice outlet = all-you-can eat Ooze buffet.
Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar = Infinite mana.

It's as good as the Sliver Queen + Heartstone + Ashnod's Altar infinite mana combo, but mono green, so easier to pull off. Now all you need is a good mana sink, such as a fireball or similar, and you're golden.
Hurricane. Add in a splash of incidental lifegain on some other cards (Shamanic Revelation etc) and there ya go, in mono green.
See above. It isn't actually infinite due to the EoT clause on the tokens
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 2 years ago

Fair, the progress of comments didn't click.

~~~~~~~~

Krydle of Baldur's Gate - Round of applause for the eleventy-umpteen billionth Dimir Mill commander. Uncommon, sign post for Limited mechanic, sure, fair, whatever. First part still stands.

Targ Nar, Demonfang Gnoll - Doesn't seem great, not completely terrible. I dunno.

Zariel, Archduke of Avernus - This I quite like.

Wish - This ought to provoke some interesting discussion.
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
2 years ago

Wish - This ought to provoke some interesting discussion.
Five + pages of legend arguing that wish cards should work with no new reasons, while everyone else gives the same exact reasons for why they shouldn't.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

This is a dumb thing to fixate on but I hate the flavor text of half-elf monk

"The fight was over the moment you picked up that clumsy cleaver of a sword."

Just call it a clumsy cleaver. "The fight was over the moment you picked up that clumsy cleaver" sounds fine. If you want to use a metaphor, it sounds kinda stupid to compare two things that are so immediately similar. "His hatchet was so big it was practically an axe"...it just doesn't have any impact because it's like...yeah, sure, that doesn't seem that different? If you want to highlight how clumsy the weapon is, compare it to something that really highlights that concept. "that unwieldy boulder of a sword" or something like that - still not great but hopefully it at least gets my point across.

I guess that point is "hire me to write flavor text, wotc, I promise to be less cringe."
Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
Five + pages of legend arguing that wish cards should work with no new reasons, while everyone else gives the same exact reasons for why they shouldn't.
As an ardent proponent of wishes, I don't plan to argue about it at all. It's just one barely-interesting variant that doesn't change anything meaningful. Lessons were a lot more interesting to debate because (1) there were a lot of cards affected by their soft-banning and (2) they appeared to be pretty low-powered, self-contained, and safe.
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Post by tstorm823 » 2 years ago

Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
Five + pages of legend arguing that wish cards should work with no new reasons, while everyone else gives the same exact reasons for why they shouldn't.
You know, my personal opposition to wishes in commander has mostly faded. Not because wishes have changed, or the rule baggage is any less, but because the context of the format is so different. Like, the worry about wishes I've always had was that they'd make things less fun by encouraging stupid hate cards or making games less diverse through hyper-modality... but Wizards keeps printing hate cards that are maindeckable and powerful cards that are themselves hyper-modal, so wishes are less exceptional a concept than they used to be.
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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 2 years ago

Guardman wrote:
2 years ago
Zariel, Archduke of Avernus is an interesting mono-red planeswalker since it has three useful, if not overly strong, abilities. In particular, I am interested in the haste granting and extra combat, as both seem like they would do great in my Etali, Primal Storm deck since they are technically on "curve". Other than that, I've mostly been interested in all the modal cards, since most are pretty aggressively costed compared to modal spells in the past and I've never had a problem with paying a slight premium for choice.
I wanna try Zariel in Kaalia, I like stuff that give haste and stuff that gives extra combats.
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