Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[Igzex]

I mean, one of its commander decks IS a dragon deck. It would be kind of insulting if there were also super pushed, fast paced high value commander- why is Edgar Markov grinning and chuckling at me

[duducrash]

The hot topic (this week at least, who can keep up with MTG drama) is that WOTC is pushing commander cards and ruining other constructed formats. Two sets with standard focused mechanics is nice

Yeah big pile of %$#%$#% spewed by people who know jackshit about commander.

But they right though. WOTC has pushed bombs lately to explore a specific market and it has impacted other formats and ours too, Im more than happy with an organic EDH format where cards enter the format organically

[Serenade]

I do prefer the days of five or fewer legends per set. (Not everyone on Strixhaven is special, but it sure feels that way!)

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I do prefer the days of five or fewer legends per set. (Not everyone on Strixhaven is special, but it sure feels that way!)

Except when it comes to the worldbuilding and actual story, you know. Because then only Rowan/Will, liliana and Lukka are special. Even extus goes down like a %$#% in the great anticlimax. Meanwhile, where were our other "legends" during the big fight on campus? Hiding under a bench somewhere or getting mauled by bugs. How "legendary".

[Serenade]

Yep, a legend should feel like someone that EVERYONE on the plane has heard of (and probably has an opinion on). Also why I never liked planeswalkers as legends—I cannot believe each of these mercurial beings are known to the average person.

We're just getting too many legends all the time.

[Wallycaine]

Legendary is, and has always been, just a marker for a specific person. 90% of legends legends had nothing special for lore about them. They were just the playtesters dnd characters ported into the game. There's never been a point where legendary status was reserved for only "important" characters

[Serenade]

I built up a lot of Scars lore in my head then.

EDIT: As I laugh my head off reading the flavor text of Myth Unbound.

[Wallycaine]

I built up a lot of Scars lore in my head then.

Huh? I... didn't bring up scars of Mirrodin, I specified *Legends*, as that was the prototype for Legendary creatures, and if they had intended them as exclusively famous characters, that would presumably have been the place to start.

[Serenade]

OOOOH, I had no clue you meant the set Legends. I thought you typed "legends" twice.

Scars felt like that point you mentioned of only important characters being truly legendary.

[DirkGently]

Legendary is, and has always been, just a marker for a specific person. 90% of legends legends had nothing special for lore about them. They were just the playtesters dnd characters ported into the game. There's never been a point where legendary status was reserved for only "important" characters

Legends was them experimenting with a new mechanic, plus there wasn't much lore to build on at that point afaik. So I wouldn't take that as an example of anything. From pretty much then up until commander became popular, the average number of legends per set was probably around 5 by my estimation - that's probably about how many they figured they wanted to include for purposes of telling a story. Not that they had to be important, but they generally fulfilled a role in the story they were telling. Obviously kamigawa was an aberration but that's because legendaryness was a core part of that block. Same for Dominaria, though I think by that point it may have been more with an eye towards exploiting commander interest. We were averaging like 8 commanders per set otherwise by that point. I swear I saw a graph of this somewhere, I'd love if someone found it.

But starting around WAR we've been getting like 20 commanders per set, every set. Even the core set, which historically had few or zero legends in them, have been getting to 10+ for the past few years. Especially considering that planeswalkers provide more slots for named characters, I think it'd be pretty naive to think that wotc is making more legends because they want to have more characters for the story. It's clearly just to drum up more interest from commander players.

It's got pros and cons in terms of playing the actual game, but it definitely comes across as cynical to me. Pre-WAR I got more of a feeling of "here's these cards based on this story, do what you will with them" and nowadays it feels more like "heyyyy look at all these shiny toys we made for you! buy them buy them buy themmmm"

[Wallycaine]

OOOOH, I had no clue you meant the set Legends. I thought you typed "legends" twice.

Scars felt like that point you mentioned of only important characters being truly legendary.

Ahh yes, the very important characters of Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer and Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, who *checks notes* are a leader of a random resistance group and a dragon that grabbed some people for Phyrexia.

[Serenade]

Hence me building up the lore in my head.

[Hermes_]

where were our other "legends" during the big fight on campus? Hiding under a bench somewhere or getting mauled by bugs. How "legendary".

Trapped by mountain lions

[Igzex]

Jor Kadeen is pretty legendary at being handsome, I gotta say.

Not so much Skithiryx though. Also there ain't no protection in the world that will make it safe....

[5colorsrainbow]

Brawl is the biggest reason we have so many legends per set. Maro mentioned that when they started the format that they would bump up the number of legendary creatures since brawl needs so many legends in a range of colors and color combos. You can say this related to commander pandering but just wanted to point out as long as they have that format going they need legends to support it.

After Dominiaria they also talked about how they really liked uncommon legends as the sign posts for set archetypes. Legendary is a draw back in most of magic and so they can use it to make a bit more pushed creatures since they know a player can only control of one the creatures at time. This lets have slighter stronger uncommon sign post cards that can help with limited/sealed/draft and making them legendary give them more "pizzazz" and catches players eyes better and better help point out the archetype.

As for lore, legendary can really mean nothing. Someone times they are important to the story, often times they never show up in the lore and just are made for the set design. The first Thalia card wasn't made to be a important character but cause (as said partly above) they wanted to push the card a bit more and made it legendary to do so, later on creative needed a character for the story and picked Thalia instead of making a new character.

[kirkusjones]

Disa, the Restless should really make an appearance sometime soon. We got Hans and Saffi and Norin…

[Mookie]

Welp, we got the Tarrasque. Hasty, hard to kill, and fights things. I'm going to question the functional difference between hexproof and ward 10, but.... big numbers are flavorful, I guess? Anyway, an interesting way to design a fatty that doesn't want to be cheated out. Nine mana is.... a lot though.

Hall of the Storm Giants is extremely interesting. Obviously very expensive to activate, but a 7/7 is very, very big, given that it just takes up a land slot. Doesn't provide fixing and enters tapped a large percentage of the time, which are both very real costs... but still worth consideration. I feel like I prefer Arch of Orazca as a lategame mana sink though. Hmm....

Hive of the Eye Tyrant continues the cycle. 3/3 menace isn't that exciting, but repeatable grave hate from a land is interesting.

Trelasarra, Moon Dancer is a legendary Ajani's Pridemate. Probably doesn't edge out Karlov of the Ghost Council, but does expand that archetype to a different color pair.

[DirkGently]

Sphere of annihilation seems unreal bad.

Lands seem like decent filler manlands for decks that want them.

Mostly a bunch of limited filler stuff, but wtf is going on with "keen sense"? Is keen sense just a name for etb? Because if they're finally biting the bullet on that, I feel like it'd be a lot better to just do "keen sense - draw a card" instead of having the stupid italics meaningless whatever-you-call-it text. Or is it etb seriously going to be pointlessly keyworded for one set? Because that seems really stupid to me.

Ward (absurd number) is kinda stupid btw. I guess it's more fun than hexproof but it just looks ridiculous.

[Mookie]

Mostly a bunch of limited filler stuff, but wtf is going on with "keen sense"? Is keen sense just a name for etb? Because if they're finally biting the bullet on that, I feel like it'd be a lot better to just do "keen sense - draw a card" instead of having the stupid italics meaningless whatever-you-call-it text. Or is it etb seriously going to be pointlessly keyworded for one set? Because that seems really stupid to me.

They appear to just be calling out the names of abilities the creatures have in D&D - owlbears have the 'keen sight and smell' ability in D&D, kobolds have 'pack tactics', etc. It's effectively flavor text.

On that note, Minion of the Mighty is an interesting Goblin Lackey variant. Needs a lot of support - 6+ power and a dragon in hand - but cheating things out with a 1-drop is... extremely abusable. Attack trigger too.

Sphere of Annihilation is some fun flavor. Upkeep trigger means it's probably too slow, but being Trinket Mage-able is sweet.

Xanathar, Guild Kingpin looks enormously fun (and also absolutely terrible to play via webcam). Or possibly miserable to play against. Either way, Sen Triplets // Future Sight in the command zone seems pretty solid, and also guaranteed to draw a ton of hate. I expect to run into a no-win-condition build of it at some point.

[ilovesaprolings]

Mostly a bunch of limited filler stuff, but wtf is going on with "keen sense"? Is keen sense just a name for etb? Because if they're finally biting the bullet on that, I feel like it'd be a lot better to just do "keen sense - draw a card" instead of having the stupid italics meaningless whatever-you-call-it text. Or is it etb seriously going to be pointlessly keyworded for one set? Because that seems really stupid to me.

I think the "draw a card" is actually the mechanic. I think keen sense is "trigger: draw a card" and not etb abilities.

[Krishnath]

Agreed. Let Standard, Modern and Pioneer get some love. We will pick up the weird cards, the casual cards, the dollar rares, and I honestly hope little more. We gathered a better harvest gleaning their fields than reaping what has been sown for us.

Modern literally just got an entire set dedicated to it. And standard gets at least four sets each year, including, shock and horror, the upcoming Adventures in the Forgotten Realms. >.<

[ilovesaprolings]

But they right though. WOTC has pushed bombs lately to explore a specific market and it has impacted other formats and ours too, Im more than happy with an organic EDH format where cards enter the format organically

Wizard pushed bombs for commander since 2011, but smartasses are only noticing it now?
Which commander-only cards are breaking formats? Veil of summer? Once upon a time? Oko? The companion mechanic?
Wizard wanted to put broken cards into every format to sell packs. People blaming commander are just clueless.

In forgotten realms i already saw 2 "commander cards": the Tarrasque and Xanathar. Let's see how many format they break? My guess is 0.

[Serenade]

I do like that alternate art/border for Trelasarra Moon Dancer along with the minimal wording.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

When I first started playing (11 years old), hardcasting Krosan Colossus and Krosan Cloudscraper was the endgame to my derpy green ramp deck, the second deck I ever built. My inner child saw the tarrasque and threw a bucket of nostalgia over me like gatorade. I gotta have one. I gotta have ten!

Shame the dnd crowd doesn't seem enthused by it for whatever reason. Oh well, more for me.

[Lifeless]

You say that, but the only person I know who's hyped for this set is our DM who ironically sold all his other MtG last year. Even some D&D diehards are into it.