No Longer Allowed to Have an Opinion?

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 weeks ago

Tbh, this is the point in the conversation where I bow out. I've said what I came to say. I'm not invested in nor prepared to discuss american politics or any perceived loss of freedom of speech. I've given OP what advice I can given the mutual context of our lives and the way I see it the longer this conversation goes on the more likely it is to tread paths already walked to everyone's disadvantage, so I'm good to leave this where it is from my end.
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Post by cryogen » 2 weeks ago

Legend wrote:
2 weeks ago
Feyd_Ruin wrote:
2 weeks ago
As for this forum, we've made it quite clear that we do not allow political discussion.
With all due respect, this statement is the embodiment of why this thread exists: Nexus is gaslighting members like Card Slinger J and I, if not others because political discussion is indeed allowed when it's progressive, anti-Trump, politically correct, anti-Bible, etc. People only get in trouble here when they wander from the overarching opinions of the moderators - i.e. progressive. And then they're marked forever as an ignorant if not unintelligent bigot, homophobe, conservative, racist, hetero-normative-cis-gender-white-male-supremacist-trumptard-expialadocious, in summary "toxic". And everything they say from then on is interpreted through that lens. There are people reading these words right now that are doing just that. Hi! :) I actually have a board warning for replying to a post in the exact way the poster requested. Then they trolled me for doing it and got nothing. I was also shadow banned for awhile for disagreeing about a piece of Magic art. I feel like this very post puts me at risk of being cancelled.

That being said, there is admittedly more tolerance here at Nexus than there had been at Sally for a long time, which I appreciate. It would be better if political discussion really wasn't allowed. Or if people were allowed to soberly share their views without concern of being cancelled. Or if Nexus stated plainly that it leans one way or the other and doesn't tolerate opposing opinions. Thanks for listening.
I won't disagree with you that most of the staff, if not all of us are liberal leaning and/or progressive. Nor that we have a tendency to be more tolerant about letting certain political discussion slide while being quicker to shut down other discussions. However, we have reached a point in the political landscape where the two sides are not equivalent. Full stop. And quite frankly, one side has been doing a good job at stoking the flames of hatred and bigotry, waging war on the environment, and trying to remove basic rights from human beings. Those things are antithetical to the beliefs and philosophy of this site, so we will quickly shut down and dissuade those discussions. Also, those discussions are more likely to get heated than debating a person who wants to raise the sales tax by 1% to fund a new jet ski ramp or something else that would be absurd in any other timeline.

That said, we do strive to keep the site free of politics, and we do try to keep political discussions in general off the site, especially in threads where they are off-topic.
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Post by robertleva » 2 weeks ago

cryogen wrote:
2 weeks ago
However, we have reached a point in the political landscape where the two sides are not equivalent. Full stop.
This is exactly why I am counseling all conservatives reinforce locally and avoid putting yourself in the crosshairs of the social mob. They are no longer interested in talking. The two sides are not equivalent to them. They have shown their true beliefs with the above statement. To them conservative = bigot = sub-human = unworthy of human rights. We are all guilty of collective crimes.

When a political party reaches this stage there is only ever one outcome. This is nothing new, people have reached this stage plenty of times throughout history.

Friends: I am asking you to prepare and reinforce yourselves locally. Don't bother wasting time with forums like these, they don't even pretend to be unbiased. Do what you can with the people you interact with in person. Locate, cooperate, pray, unite and love one another. Show the other side what actual tolerance and love looks like day in and day out. Prepare yourselves for violence on your own doorstep. Do not count on the police to protect you, they may not be able to. Sure maybe nothing happens at the election, but I would NOT be unprepared for any reason. I have kids, I won't be taking any chances and I live in an extremely safe / right wing area.
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Post by WizardMN » 2 weeks ago

robertleva wrote:
2 weeks ago
This is exactly why I am counseling all conservatives reinforce locally and avoid putting yourself in the crosshairs of the social mob. They are no longer interested in talking. The two sides are not equivalent to them. They have shown their true beliefs with the above statement. To them conservative = bigot = sub-human = unworthy of human rights. We are all guilty of collective crimes.
That isn't even close to what is being expressed. It is not an attack on a group of people. It is an attack on a set of ideals. You even said in another post that you didn't hate liberals but you did hate their ideology. Perhaps without using the word 'hate' but the idea is the same.

I don't understand what you think you are being attacked for though. You response is obviously to hunker down, entrench yourself against the "collective mob". But what is it that the collective mob is really doing? I don't see liberals extolling the virtues of Hitler or Stalin for example (not saying conservatives do either; just trying to come up with an extreme that might actually warrant your reaction).

Instead. the bulk of the narrative is around personal liberties and freedoms. There are the obvious gay/trans rights. Black Lives Matter is a huge thing right now. Gun control discussions are always lurking in the shadows.

But these are all about what @pokken said earlier: they are about making things better for everyone, though the focus is on marginalized groups.

There are bad seeds on the liberal side as well so I am not saying there aren't people worthy of derision. Every group, no matter their focus or intent, will have outspoken members. The same goes for conservatives.

But, from what I can see, conservatism is, by and large, trying to keep things the same. The reason people don't like government is the hypocrisy. The reason people don't trust police and the justice system is because of the double standards. But it always seems like the conservatives are really pushing this mindset of things are getting worse. Even Trump's campaign was all about "make America great again".

This suggests there are changes happening that conservatives don't like. I am not trying to suggest that conservative = Trump supporter.as people can obviously have their own ideas. But the way our government is structured, there are always only two sides. That is what we get right now. Being a centrist is good for most of the population but it isn't good for actually getting things done so people need to pick a side. It sucks, but that is where we are.

So, what is it that is changing that you don't like or that warrants the reaction you expressed above? Is it simply that there is a greater outcry on Social Media when someone says something that a "mob" doesn't like? Paula Dean and Roseanne getting fired for racist comments? Perhaps that is where you are leaning. Or Terese Nielsen getting "ganged up" on for being a TERF? Are these the things that you feel the "mob" is initiating? Are these the things that you feel should just be given a pass?

After all, at some point, the recognition must be made that if the majority is upset about something, something is going to happen. In the past, that majority was made up of rich white men. They called the shots. Social Media has its downsides for sure. But, one of the biggest issues with it is also one of its biggest strengths: giving everyone a voice that can be heard. We have more neo-nazi propaganda, and KKK support with this platform than I think we have had in recent years because the platforms allow for it.

But, at the same time, those opposed to that stuff also get a voice. And, in many cases, those voices rise above the hate and vitriol of what they are opposing. It is not perfect, but your distaste of the social mob suggests the social mob is doing more harm than good. While there are certainly examples of harm being done (I do not personally agree with the James Gunn situation for example) I don't think that overall the voices given to the marginalized or the downtrodden have been a detriment. I think a lot of good things have happened basically the only way they will happen in this country: by threatening the loss of revenue for companies and individuals.

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Post by Airi » 2 weeks ago

I'm going to be locking this. This really isn't the website to pitch your political ideals. If you feel that strongly, there are a number of political campaigns that you can volunteer for and/or contribute to, or as Feyd has mentioned in another post in this forum there are a number of websites where this type of discussion is a lot more appropriate. To put it frankly, a Magic the Gathering message board ain't it.
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Post by Feyd_Ruin » 2 weeks ago

Some points that I think need attention, even after being locked.
Legend wrote:
2 weeks ago
With all due respect, this statement is the embodiment of why this thread exists
...
It would be better if political discussion really wasn't allowed. Or if people were allowed to soberly share their views without concern of being cancelled. Or if Nexus stated plainly that it leans one way or the other and doesn't tolerate opposing opinions. Thanks for listening.
I've said it many times, I'll say it again, and I stand by it: Political discussion is not allowed here. The world has gone to %$#%, and I think everyone can agree this has been the craziest year — at least in a long, long time. Politics are insane right now, with the largest polarity between sides than we've seen in living memory. Turn on the news, and it's chaos and unrest and political discord, and an unending stream of negative emotion and a cacophony of anxiety.

People need to be able to get away from this when they need to, and sites like this can offer them that opportunity. There's no reason to have political discussions here, it doesn't fit the site, and there's no good merit for having them on a magic site when a lot of people won't want them and there's other, better places to have them.

Now, there are times when real world actions bleed over into the magic world. A good example is WotC ending its relationship with Terese Nielsen. This was motivated by politically charge ideology and it's kind of impossible to discuss the situation without also touching on whole-world politics. We do our best to allow these discussions, but they still have a tenancy to expand beyond the magic-centric news and devolve into full on political arguments.

Beyond the above kind of situations, we don't allow political discussions. We do our best to be lenient and know people can easily slip up. This is why we almost always start with a mod note of "get back on topic" or something. Warning people the moment anyone gets into political areas would be egregious, so we generally only warn when A) it's a glaringly flagrant thing that served no purpose, B) people continue on after we've asked them to stop, or C) someone is regularly doing it after we've asked them to stop multiple times.

Now, there are what I would call "micro-statements" that one could argue blur the line. Much like the above, we're not trying to shut down peoples thoughts and such, we're simply stating (rightly) that such discussions don't have a place here. As such, if a small statement goes without drifting the conversation off into a tangent, we might easily just let it lay. If it bothers you, report it.

There are, of course, some statements that will never be allowed. Bigotry, sexism, racism, etc, aren't political statements, they're inflamatory and sometimes even hate speech. Anyone who tries to say their prejudice beliefs are political are simply trying to justify their implacable beliefs as if it's ok to treat others like subhuman garbage. It's not political and it's not acceptable. This goes back to the core tenant of treating others with respect. I don't care what political belief you have, what ideology or religion you belong to, you are absolutely not welcome here if you start spouting that kind of trash and will be banned without hesitation or remorse. This isn't political, it's basic human decency and dignity, and you can have that regardless of any other beliefs you might have. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect.
Legend wrote:
2 weeks ago
I was also shadow banned for awhile
Shadow bans don't exist here. It's not a thing. So no, you were never shadow banned, because you literally can't be.
(Well, I mean I could create one, but I haven't yet, so......)
robertleva wrote:
2 weeks ago
To them conservative = bigot = sub-human
Conservative does not equate to bigot. You can easily be one without the other. The former is fine, the latter is not.
More succinctly: Conservatives are welcome here; bigots are not. Or, at the very least, absolutely need to keep their opinions on such things to themselves.
Again, bigotry isn't a political ideology, it's a plague that has no place among decent people of any actual political ideology.
robertleva wrote:
2 weeks ago
getting our voices heard in hard left forums like this
While there are more left-leaning staff here, I know we also have at least a few conservatives, and I myself am a moderate. On just about every defining issue between conservative and liberal, I am in the middle. Of course, you're also the one that told me that if I was truly a moderate I'd be a conservative like you and seem to think, as if anything that isn't conservative is liberal... so... I'm not sure you actually understand the political spectrum.

We've literally been called liberal for stupid %$#% like offering pronoun choices. Offering people the ability to show their pronouns so we know how to refer to them isn't liberal. It's a basic thing. Who knows how many women I've called he/him/sir over the last 19 years with this community simply because I didn't know and there wasn't an elegant way for them to inform people. Now there is. If someone has an issue with pronoun choices, they're probably heading into that bigotry area we discussed before and really need to take a hard look in the mirror.
robertleva wrote:
2 weeks ago
We are not guaranteed free speech in these private settings, and brother we DO NOT have it here!
....
Whatever little snips I can manage to get through the thought police that are constantly watching I will consider a victory.
Stop posting about politics and trying to work your "conservative snips" into things. That's all we've been asking you to do. I wouldn't even know you were conservative if you didn't shout it from the roof tops every chance you get. You seem to be unable to separate magic discussion from political discussion.

I love 8 Rack, it's one of my favorite archetypes. I'd love for you to stay here. But if you can't keep the politics out of your posts and continually (and purposefully) try to "get your political snips through" yes, you will absolutely end up banned eventually. I'm sure you'll try to scream "they banned me for being conservative" but no, it'll be because you can't stop talking politics, trying to sneak political pot shots in, etc. I get it, you're a conservative activist. I don't care, just stop trying to be an activist here. Stop trying to constantly work politics into things. If you were constantly posting liberal-view politics, we'd 100% be in this exact same boat. It's not that hard, just talk about magic. You know, that game you play? Yeah, lets talk about THAT instead.
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