Praetors

[void_nothing]

With Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider having been on Kaldheim and now confirmation that Jin-Gitaxias is going to appear in Kamigawa, it seems as though seeds are being planted for a multiversal Phyrexian invasion to be the next overarching storyline of Magic after the Bolas arc concluded a couple years ago.

Right now, though, it looks like the Praetors are finding themselves on scattered planes, and we'll get one member of the new cycle every few sets, on a thematically appropriate plane. Vorinclex, for example, is wild and feral, so it seemed right he would go to the wilderness-covered, barbarous plane of Kaldheim. Jin-Gitaxias is obsessed with science, so he has been dropped onto a technologically advanced plane.

That leaves at least two - for storyline reasons, Urabrask is likely to not be involved with this. However, Sheoldred and Norn definitely are. I'm not sure where Sheoldred might crop up, but Elesh Norn is important enough in the storyline, being apparently the head of all the Praetors due to winning the war between them, that she'd appear either on Dominaria or in New Phyrexia itself imho.

Thoughts?

[Venedrex]

Sounds good to me. As soon as I saw old Vory in Kaldheim it seemed pretty clear that our metal friends were on a scavenger hunt for components needed to do a little planeswalking (planesbridging?). It makes sense that Jin is getting the tech like you said, and working with the man responsible for the Planar Bridge. Get access to means of jumping to plane, invade, and boom Wotc gets to make a super hyped WAR style set with a massive Phyrexian invasion that will sell packs like no tomorrow.

I'm just hoping Urabrask gets his moment to shine before the end. I really wanna see him have some sweet card that depicts him suddenly appearing with the remnants of the Mirran Resistance and just going ham on his old pals. Something something, Urabrask, Mirran General in Boros colors. He was always my favorite character from Phyrexia, well him and Koth anyway. Would love to see those two come charging in at the last second fighting side by side.

Knowing Phyrexia though he'll probably just have been reformed into a throne for Elesh Norn.

[The N82O Molecule]

well it would only be right to do the cycle,

it does lead to several questions. the Doomskar was how the green one shifted planes, or what im now to understand a manifestation in whole of the "praetor"

I was under the impression that even 1 drop of oil, however over a long period of time, could manifest complaetion, the issue was how to transfer organic matter from plane to plane that didn't have "spark". well im sorta pretty sure that good ol Karn, Silver Golem, when it created Mirrodin, left some there, either by chance or "on purpose". either way we know now that the manifestation of this oil on Mirrodin yielded the 5 praetors that we know.

I sorta hoped that each plane generated its own interpretation of "Phyrexia" and so, as I understand the hierarchy a little more, it inevitably yields a "praetor". but Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur spilled the beans in the last story article.

most importantly im worried a little that Tezz is honing in on the "master of machines" and im strongly against that. im hoping that TEzz, just like with bolas, is a excellent lackey (until failure) and Venser is pulling the strings and the real plot runner behind how to get "machines" from one plane to another.

I would like to hear some theory on how Jin is the lucky one and how it got to Kamigawa. who took the oil there if that's the case. could jin be summoned?

sadly I don't see any more options for more Phyrexian influence in sets this year , maybe 1 in capenna? additionally I feel like the more of these they show the less likely it is that we go back to Mirrodin (sorry new Phyrexia, well I can't forget) and that makes me sadish

anyway super cool

[CommanderMaster999]

Well reposting today

Jin wasn't after something

He was studying the kami spirits because they are extremely close to planeswalker souls and the spirit realm and kamigawa is almost like separate planes

And purpose is figure out how to compleat a planeswalker without loosing the soul thus creating a phyrexian planeswalker


And he succeeded with Tamiyo

Anyway for sheoldred and Urabrask their factions should explain enough

Urabrask is into reforging
Sheoldred is into enslaving


But anyway you guys are claiming we won't see anymore this year but you need to remember elsepth is gonna be on new capenna and he involvement with phyrexians is…

she got her spark from them being tortured
Was on mirrodin when new phyrexia was taking over and almost got killed by a Phyrexian Obliterator [/card] thus the nightmares ashiok found and planeswalked to find them.

And by the way it's a mafia set and Civilians usually want to …..hide from them.

[The Fluff]

I'm just hoping Urabrask gets his moment to shine before the end. I really wanna see him have some sweet card that depicts him suddenly appearing with the remnants of the Mirran Resistance and just going ham on his old pals. Something something, Urabrask, Mirran General in Boros colors. He was always my favorite character from Phyrexia, well him and Koth anyway. Would love to see those two come charging in at the last second fighting side by side.

Knowing Phyrexia though he'll probably just have been reformed into a throne for Elesh Norn.

if Urabrask somehow survived and escaped the battle with Norn. I think he's popular enough for the fanbase to be simply recycled as a throne.

there are of course multiple problems.. does Urabrask understand mirran language or can mirran understand phyrexian? Assuming some survived, the mirrans whom he sheltered in the furnace layer would probably be not hostile to him. But how would they know that he was the red phyrexian leader who sheltered them if he can't talk to them? Perhaps wotc would think of a language translating artifact or something..

[RxPhantom]

I think Sheoldred will be in Streets of New Capenna. Her aesthetic could be fit the demon gangster vibe.

Since the next set is called Dominaria United, I think one of two (or perhaps both) things will happen:

1. Norn may be there and her presence will begin to galvanize our heroes, Teferi and company, to start actively combatting a Phyrexian threat.
2. Koth will be on Dominaria, either pursuing Norn or looking to recruit help for the battle on his home plane.

I also think WotC could pull some nomenclature trickery like they did with New Phyrexia, and one of the sets next year will be Mirrodin Pure, or perhaps the plane will be reset entirely and called Argentum. It's also possible that The Brothers War could contain a bit of retconning when it comes to small references to the praetors.

[duducrash]

Didnt Elesh Norn kill Sheoldred? Did I get this wrong?

[5colorsrainbow]

Didnt Elesh Norn kill Sheoldred? Did I get this wrong?

Elspeth had gotten word that Elseth had taken over Sheoldreds and Urabrasks domains but even said that she wasn't fully sure if that info was accurate. Nothing about Elseth Norn killing the other two thats more fan thought.

With Tamiyo now completed I do think we will also likely we could see completed walkers showing up instead of the praetors, thought I do think we will see 2/3 of the remaining praetors off plane before we get the 5th on a New Phyrexia set* proper.

*I have the theory we gonna have the "war of the spark" like set (or two) that will be Phyrexia invading a bunch of planes so we might get the 5th praetor there.

[benjameenbear]

As it currently stands, you're correct @duducrash. But, my faith in WOTC's storytelling is irreparably shattered and anything is possible, including dead characters magically not being dead. So far as I'm aware, Sheoldred and her forces were decimated by Elesh Norn offscreen, so I have no idea how "canon" that statement really is.

It's just a matter of time before WOTC screws up Phyrexia as a story device. Zero faith here...

[benjameenbear]

Didnt Elesh Norn kill Sheoldred? Did I get this wrong?

Elspeth had gotten word that Elseth had taken over Sheoldreds and Urabrasks domains but even said that she wasn't fully sure if that info was accurate. Nothing about Elseth Norn killing the other two thats more fan thought.

With Tamiyo now completed I do think we will also likely we could see completed walkers showing up instead of the praetors, thought I do think we will see 2/3 of the remaining praetors off plane before we get the 5th on a New Phyrexia set* proper.

*I have the theory we gonna have the "war of the spark" like set (or two) that will be Phyrexia invading a bunch of planes so we might get the 5th praetor there.

I agree with your observations. The Phyrexianization of Tamiyo is a small spark of hope that Phyrexia will never go away as a plot device, but I'm skeptical.

Lord help us if WOTC decides to do another War of the Spark rendition for Phyrexia. That's where my faith in WOTC died with their butchery of... everything, from Bolas's villain arc to the Jace/Vraska relationship, to zombified Gods somehow having sentience to attack Bolas after explicitly being killed by the Scorpion God to Gideon's completely implausible sacrifice to...

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now...

[5colorsrainbow]

This was the quote;
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2013-09-11

"Although the resistance had limited access to information, we believed Elesh Norn had dominated Urabrask's and Sheoldreds' domains. "

Nothing about killing the two praetors nor even if this info was even right.

[CommanderMaster999]

I should mention this

I just heard this from someone

There's a claim on one of maros prodcast he mentioned sheoldred is infact alive after elesh's ambush on her area

[benjameenbear]

If that's true, that could create some interesting conflict within New Phyrexia itself! The dynamic between the Praetors is super fascinating and I look forward to see what happens as Elesh Norn attempts to unify all of Phyrexia. Attempts at hegemony are always interesting plot twists!

[The N82O Molecule]

so is it not that when any given plane gets the oil that praetors are bound to compleat or are the praetors we know only exclusive to mirrodin? like, I was thinking that a plane would generate each its own "Jin" or "Urabrask".

the one thing that's always been the "blight" of "Phyrexia" is that the oil cannot pass between planes. is this dead? with tezzeret basically having the ability to transfer, well basically anything and now Tamiyo. like, where are we with that

im all for compleation and I like what was done with Tamiyo, maybe planes walkers can't transfer the oil and this is the next best thing

all hail the Lord of Machines!

[RxPhantom]

I think Tamiyo's compleation is the beginning of a new story arc which will see these compleated walkers become the Legion of Doom to the Gatewatch's Justice League. I'm just spitballing here, but I think Nissa, Sarkhan, Basri, Teyo, and Kaito are good bets to get oiled up. I think it would be cool if they went rogue, killed the praetors, ultimately leading to a battle royale with the Gatewatch. Either way, if done properly, these story threads could lead to a very satisfying conclusion, which would stand in stark contrast to War of the Spark.

[void_nothing]

That certainly would be an effective twist but I sure would miss the Praetors.

Nissa - yeah, could see her for sure given how she fell away from the GW.
Sarkhan - Old fellow-traveler with Tezz, maybe that could happen.
Basri - Feels rather random, not sure what connection he's got.
Teyo - His youth and inexperience would make him unlikely to resist compleation.
Kaito - Man's already got a bunch of cybernetics in his body, so he's a fit.

[RxPhantom]

That certainly would be an effective twist but I sure would miss the Praetors.

Nissa - yeah, could see her for sure given how she fell away from the GW.
Sarkhan - Old fellow-traveler with Tezz, maybe that could happen.
Basri - Feels rather random, not sure what connection he's got.
Teyo - His youth and inexperience would make him unlikely to resist compleation.
Kaito - Man's already got a bunch of cybernetics in his body, so he's a fit.

Basri just seems disposable and unpopular. The others I mentioned for the reasons you gave, as well as their status as mildly popular, but not essential. They've been telegraphing Nissa for something, and this has got to be it, especially with mono-green Garruk and Vivien around. Teyo not only sucks and I hate him, but his character just screams Anakin Skywalker. And with Kaito, I think they'll really endear him to the audience over the next couple of years, and he'll be the last to be compleated. I could even see a callback to the art on Explosive Entry.

[5colorsrainbow]

Nissa- Yup, I think one or two* of the gatewatch will be compleated before the end of this and my bets are on Nissa. She was never popular, (ending up on the gatewatch due to being the only mono-green character at the time), her story arc has been nothing but a mess and they don't seem to know what to do with her, they pretty much fringed her and it would be very rough for Chandra. From Innistrad 3, Chandra seems to be moving on but this still would add more for Chandra personally. Other one I could see is Ajani BUT I think there equal reason atm for either or with him where as Nissa after Zendiakr 3 really seems like they are ready to write her out of the story.

Sarkhan- Maybe, but we haven't seen him much outside of Tarkir being free and (as much as he ever was) sane and would be a shame if he ended up just another puppet like Tezzeret.

Basri- Naw, he was made partly in response to criticism of how there isn't much if any positive portrays of religion magic, loses the point if that is turned into worship for phyrexia. I think him and a few other walkers are more set up to be used after Phyrexia and as I'm not sure if Elspeth will be around after this arc** we down to a few mono-white walkers.

Teyo- Maybe to add some more stakes as he is just 19 but again not many mono-white walkers.

Kaito- Maybe in the way you said it by having him being the last of the compleated but I don't don't think they will have him or Wanderer compleated since it gets rid of rep for Kamigawa planeswalker.

*I could see Chandra, Jace and/or Liliana being safe for the most part but I could see one of them compleated for drama.

** I don't think she will be compleated but I think she willing go back to the Theros underworld, she always wanted rest and peace and seemly was happy in the underworld until Ashiok left to learn about Phyrexia.


Person I think the most likely are (beside Tibalt and Ashiok who defiantly are gonna get compleated)

Jaya- To play into the mentor falling trope and since her and Chandra fight for card design.

Kasmina- Mentor fallen trop again and if she is leader of a cabal of walker seemly setting up to fight phyrexia (with her being shady in how she recruits) seems fitting to have her fall and likely take much of the cabal with her for the darkest hour moment.

Lukka- Not sure how much they can use him if all he wants is to return and get revenge on his home and seemly been setting up for him to meet bad fate with how he acts.

Nahiri/Sorin- I definitely see them getting compleated due to fighting more with each other than phyrexia or even a step father and have Nahiri/ Sorin betraying Sorin/Nahiri to phyrexia and getting compleated with the gatewatch forced to help the betrayer (or have another walker compleated).

Vraska- She is being blackmailed by Tezzeret and similar with Nisssa would had more personal stakes for Jace. Plus compleated Vraska sounds horrifyingly cool.

[benjameenbear]

I think Tamiyo's compleation is the beginning of a new story arc which will see these compleated walkers become the Legion of Doom to the Gatewatch's Justice League. I'm just spitballing here, but I think Nissa, Sarkhan, Basri, Teyo, and Kaito are good bets to get oiled up. I think it would be cool if they went rogue, killed the praetors, ultimately leading to a battle royale with the Gatewatch. Either way, if done properly, these story threads could lead to a very satisfying conclusion, which would stand in stark contrast to War of the Spark.

Dear Lord, please PLEASE don't have a Battle Royale with Phyrexia. I have ZERO trust that WOTC will be able to properly execute that without disastrous consequences.

I'm in agreement with everyone's thoughts about Nissa. WOTC has basically written her off already and she recently added b to her most recent card, so I think it's natural that Phyrexia subverts her protective instincts for Zendikar into a protective instinct for New Phyrexia. Kind of like a super-cool gate-warden who uses the plane's abilities to create wickedly sweet defenses. I'm not sure if the oil has the collective memory of Phyrexia, but I imagine that Elesh Norn would want an iron curtain and a warden of some sort to protect the plane from any more plane invasions (since it happened twice with Urza) (also, too bad Memnarch is dead!).

I'm ambivalent about Sarkhan. He's already completed his redemption arc in escaping Bolas's clutches imo, so to have him fall back into a villain again would be anti-climactic in some ways but REALLY interesting in others.

Basri and Teyo; who are they? I don't think they've had a ton of screentime and Teyo particularly strikes me as annoying. I don't think they'll actually get Phyrexianized simply because they won't carry any emotional weight when that happens.

I also agree that Vraska getting Phyrexianized would be absolutely amazing. The tension between her and Jace (should that happen) would be incredible to read. Of course, if WOTC doesn't screw it up (like they already have). Additionally, Vraska has a ruthless streak in her that I think fits perfectly with some parts of the Phyrexian ideology so I think that her being Phyrexianized would be compelling and align with what Phyrexia does.

Nahiri and Sorin getting Phyrexianized would be the ultimate irony. I think their vendetta against each other is compelling enough that they'll probably stand alone as a plot device. They may in fact almost completely ignore a Phyrexian conflict as long as it doesn't directly interfere with their home planes (which we've already seen 3 times now).

For me, personally, I'd love to see Karn get reinfected again, only to be killed by the GAtewatch in order to prevent catastrophe. Not only would it bring tragedy around Venser's sacrifice and Karn as a character (which is what his character arc actually feels like), but it would also give Phyrexia access to the power that obliterated Yawgmoth in the first place. That potential power would be addressed by Karn and, while he's choking on his Phyrexianization process, he is then willingly killed by Teferi.

If we're talking about hypothetical Praetors, I would be VERY interested to see if Phyrexia finds a way to call back dead people into specially created husks a la Geth. Yawgmoth was technically never a planeswalker in the traditional sense, so I think his spirit existing on another plane (perhaps a side-benefit of Jin-Gitaxias' experiments on Kamigawa?) and being brought back in a Praetor's body would be absolutely AMAZING. There could even be an official Phyrexian wedding between Yawgmoth and Elesh Norn that would absolutely embarass Olivia and Edgar Markov's lame wedding plot device!

[CommanderMaster999]

If we are talking walkers getting compleated this is what I got

likely safe
Chandra
Elspeth
Garruk
Jace
Kaito
The wanderer/kamigawa emperor
Kaya
Liliana
Tezzeret
Teferi
Tyvar
Ugin
Wrenn

Likely in danger
One or two gatewatch members
Atleast one walker during the pre-mending
Tibalt (the most likely since vorinclex's seed is likely still in him)
Ashiok
Arlinn (there's wolves in new phyrexia)
Jaya
Koth (probably not but here's likely still fighting on phyrexia and with them knowing how to compleat walkers he's done for if caught)
Lukka
Nahiri or sorin
Nissa (most likely of my gatewatch prediction)
Niko
One or both of the kenrith twins
Vraska

Unknown
Ajani (likely safe but could just get a nervous breakdown when he finds out about tamiyo)
Vivian
Sarkhan
Samut
Oko
Ramaz
Narset


Now as for Kasmina she's gonna have a monsterous role in this we just don't know what yet her cabal is likely a army to fight the phyrexians (like Urza forming the nine titans)

[RxPhantom]

<snip>

I saw that Spice8Rack video too.

[The N82O Molecule]

im going to vote for Nissa as my BG, she can make my lands into Inkmoth Nexus

ashiok as my BU and he make you discard a card and make a 1/1 with infect

red ill take Tibalt, and white? well white ill take Elesh norn after they learn to steel or take a a spark and ol Elesh will get the white slot.

[Artaud]

I see everybody talking about potentialy compleated walkers but did anyone wondered how the new Elesh will look like? We will definitely get her sooner or later before things'll get complicated story-wise.

Praetor's abilities we've got so far are:

Vorinclex:
1. Double mana - "half" mana
2. Double Counters - half counters

Jin-Gitaxias:
1. Draw 7 - reduce HS by 7
2. Double spell - counter spell

Elesh Norn
1. Pump creatures - hinder creatures
2. ???

White color has somewhat little traits at its disposal, one being creature buffs and the other... life gain. Well I don't think Elesh would be pleased to provide double (and half) life gain. White is also notorious for its taxing abilities so maybe here is the way:

a) Noncreature spells you play cost 2 less to play. Noncreature spells your opponents play cost 2 more to play.
It's somewhat too straightforward and White is not usually cut for spell cost reduction, so...

b) Whenever an effect would cause you to reduce mana cost of a spell or ability, this effect will reduce that mana cost twice. Whenever an effect would cause opponents to pay more mana for a spell or ability, they will pay that twice,
Long live the Stax!

What are your bets? Let's discussion begin... or halt.

[duducrash]

EDH players get so salty whenever they see the slighest tax on the table they would collectively burst into flames. I approve

[5colorsrainbow]

From the stories, seemly Urabrask is alive and on New Capenna.