Innistrad: Midnight Hunt speculation

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void_nothing
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Post by void_nothing » 2 years ago

The third Innistrad "block" will be releasing this fall, consisting of the paired sets of Midnight Hunt and Crimson Vow. Of these, we know less at press time about Midnight Hunt - all we have is that it's Werewolf-themed. I think it's relatively safe to assume that both of these sets will have "classic" DFCs, using transform: one of the reasons Avacyn Restored was criticized was that it dropped something that turned out to be the most popular part of the first two sets in the original ISD block, and I don't think R&D is ever likely to produce an Innistrad set without DFCs at this stage.

So, Midnight Hunt will probably use the usual Innistrad Werewolf mechanic - but beyond that it's mechanically and flavorfully a mystery. Any ideas?
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Post by Venedrex » 2 years ago

I'm down to toss out some ideas.

1. Wotc is known for being very literal when they had tacked on descriptors in their sets, such as Strixhaven: School of Mages, and this set has the word Midnight in its name. Based on this undeniably miniscule evidence, I'm calling it now, this set is going to have some sort of day/night mechanic in addition to or related in some way to the DFCs.

2. Which leads us to the word hunt. So if the set is Werewolf themed, you need a tribal aspect. If you have tribal, that leads to other tribes. The Werewolves are going to need something to hunt, like bands of frightened humans. Therefore I am making the safest possible prediction (that may be a given already) that tribal will play a role in this set, as it has in past Innistrad sets.

3. My last thought is less of a guess and more of a hope. A good Werewolf tribal commander for EDH is something I and others have wanted for a long time, so hopefully Wotc obliges.
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

From this article:
As we started working with (MDFCs), it became clear that the Standard environment only wanted so many (and remember, we knew that Innistrad was coming out later in the years with transforming double-faced cards), which meant that all the sets had to cut back on their numbers.
So... yeah, sounds like both sets will be using transforming DFCs. Honestly, I'd expect a return to Innistrad 1.0 - Shadows Over Innistrad had a heavy eldritch horror theme as a result of Emrakul's influence, but this time around I would expect more classic horror. Somewhat similar to Zendikar Rising returning to a more classic lands / adventure set, after Battle for Zendikar had the heavy Eldrazi focus. It's likely that we'll see a few references to Emrakul, but I would be surprised if she were the main focus of the set - consider Forsaken Monument.

That said, Midnight Hunt being werewolf-themed does raise some questions. Past Innistrad sets have been relatively balanced between the five ally-colored tribes - humans / spirits / zombies / vampires / werewolves. I would be surprised if they were to do a color-imbalanced set (Judgment / Torment caused issues). However, it's definitely possible that they could ramp up the as-fan of werewolves, and decrease the corresponding numbers of humans and vampires in red and green. (Although since most werewolves are also humans, that's actually pretty trivial)

Arlinn Kord showing up also seems like a relatively safe bet. Tamiyo is another planeswalker that tends to show up on Innistrad, especially if there ends up being more moon stuff.

...it feels like they've been decreasing the number of named mechanics in sets recently, and DFCs already take up a chunk of that. We could see a second named werewolf mechanic though. I'll also predict a RG legendary werewolf with actual tribal synergies, since Ulrich of the Krallenhorde // Ulrich, Uncontested Alpha was a bit of a miss.

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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 2 years ago

Venedrex wrote:
2 years ago
1. Wotc is known for being very literal when they had tacked on descriptors in their sets, such as Strixhaven: School of Mages, and this set has the word Midnight in its name. Based on this undeniably miniscule evidence, I'm calling it now, this set is going to have some sort of day/night mechanic in addition to or related in some way to the DFCs.
I think they might expand the werewolf day/night trigger to other transforming DFCs.

Also, I suspect they're going to keyword it so they can stuff more text onto a Werewolf.
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Post by dangerousdice » 2 years ago

Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
2 years ago
Venedrex wrote:
2 years ago
1. Wotc is known for being very literal when they had tacked on descriptors in their sets, such as Strixhaven: School of Mages, and this set has the word Midnight in its name. Based on this undeniably miniscule evidence, I'm calling it now, this set is going to have some sort of day/night mechanic in addition to or related in some way to the DFCs.
I think they might expand the werewolf day/night trigger to other transforming DFCs.

Also, I suspect they're going to keyword it so they can stuff more text onto a Werewolf.
yes! keyword the werewolf ability! I've wanted this for forever! just..! do it! please.

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Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

Baseless speculation!

I think Emrakull will be exerting influence from the moon Imprisoned in the Moon the moon being connected to werewolves may make them stronger. maybe at first they will be stronger and hunt the other beings in innistrad. This may be a wolves vs vampires type of deal?

But the only thing that matters is : Thalia 3.0

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Post by CommanderMaster999 » 2 years ago

Ok



Both innistrad sets will have quite a large amount of zombies having blue. So other tribes may be coming into play in these sets not just werewolves in one and vampires in the other.

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Post by Mapccu » 2 years ago

We know that returns to themes can often put a slight twist on them. What would be interesting is if the DFC from this set ETB as the more powerful side (picking up off the name of the set, they come in "transformed") and opponent can do X thing to flip them and power them down ("day" side is weaker human werewolf creature).

This would stop the werewolf mechanic from punishing its pilot by playing cards, make the deck playable outside of draft (standard doesn't need another coco, aether vial, or flash wolves that feel weird flavor wise) help RG stay aggressive to match the archetype, and allow your opponent to still interact by chaining spells. This could also bring standard CMC down. Arena handles flip triggers really well too, so these could be fun swingy games to watch.

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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

Givens for the set: Werewolf tribal (duh), all colors will be balanced (not going to do the color imbalance thing again, it never ends well.), no friggin Eldrazi. Seriously, the most hated element of Shadows/E. Moon was Emmy. WotC could easily have done the cosmic horror element without using Emmy.

What I think we will see: Powerful werewolves, including a new legendary *tribal* werewolf, as Ulric was not well received (it's a fine card, it was just not what people wanted or expected.). I also expect a ramp up of the "beast" horror genre, as in people changing into monsters and going on rampages/killing their families, as well as "tomato in the mirror" revelations. People transforming into monsters is a classic horror trope for a reason. I also expect at least two non-creatures that can transform, one of which would be an enchantment.

What I hope: The return of rampage, as it is quite fitting.
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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 2 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
2 years ago
I also expect a ramp up of the "beast" horror genre, as in people changing into monsters and going on rampages/killing their families, as well as "tomato in the mirror" revelations. People transforming into monsters is a classic horror trope for a reason. I also expect at least two non-creatures that can transform, one of which would be an enchantment.
Man-eating plant! MAN-EATING PLANT!

It was so blatantly absent from the previous sets.
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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
2 years ago
Krishnath wrote:
2 years ago
I also expect a ramp up of the "beast" horror genre, as in people changing into monsters and going on rampages/killing their families, as well as "tomato in the mirror" revelations. People transforming into monsters is a classic horror trope for a reason. I also expect at least two non-creatures that can transform, one of which would be an enchantment.
Man-eating plant! MAN-EATING PLANT!

It was so blatantly absent from the previous sets.
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I would not be surprised to see a man-eating plant at all, but I am not certain it would be a DFC.
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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 2 years ago

What I'm wondering is whether the split in two sets will have a particular effect e. g. the day/night cards all in Midnight Hunt, but Crimson Vow gets its own DFC treatment. Though IIRC they mentioned or implied that all major Innistradi tribes will be in both sets, so it seems likely that the day/night version will be in both, too.

Definitel no MDFCs IIRC, but what if they use their new-found exploration of outside the game cards (learn/companions) and give us three-faced cardswith one face external to the deck?

Most out there idea: Crimson Vow will feature meld and two legendary creatures that will meld into a happy power couple like we've seen a handful of times before.
dangerousdice wrote:
2 years ago
Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
2 years ago
Venedrex wrote:
2 years ago
1. Wotc is known for being very literal when they had tacked on descriptors in their sets, such as Strixhaven: School of Mages, and this set has the word Midnight in its name. Based on this undeniably miniscule evidence, I'm calling it now, this set is going to have some sort of day/night mechanic in addition to or related in some way to the DFCs.
I think they might expand the werewolf day/night trigger to other transforming DFCs.

Also, I suspect they're going to keyword it so they can stuff more text onto a Werewolf.
yes! keyword the werewolf ability! I've wanted this for forever! just..! do it! please.
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Outside of DFCs (or maybe not?) I'm excited about the fact that the focus on a tribe per ISD set will mean something for legendaries. I expect multiple pack leaders or at least a more fleshed out social structure.

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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

I hope we get some information about the mysterious other continent that was mentioned in original Innistrad block.
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Post by folding_music » 2 years ago

I think it's more likely that they goodstuffize the original Innistrad transform mechanic into a saboteur ability; trying to flip the original cards was interestingly difficult outside of limited, and the EMN ones you could transform for a mana cost tended to ask a lot of mana. expecting to see a lot of "if (this) or a human werewolf dealt combat damage to an opponent this turn, (transform this)" type things... and also for the flip side modes of those cards to have casting costs in a MDFC way. more accessibility for either half of the card, basically?

goofy predictions:
there'll be a black self-mill card which flashes back either as a green or blue self-mill card which necessitates them reprinting ANOTHER overpowered graveyard hoser card into Historic, maybe the Samurai this time so it can be a maindeckable creature. it seems pretty hard to do dredge things online right now but they will forever be scared of the entire zone, possibly because of residual Scarab God fear or whatever. there's Mizzix's Mastery too but they'd have to reprint an entirely different sixth gravekill card if that's more pertinent ;P
A single Eldrazi to keep the threat alive, but only on the back of a transform card. we're still here but dormant teeheeheehee. If the plot goes into depth explaining why this isn't possible then fine but from reading the card flavour text it feels more like they just banished the big bad.
they'll make a Human lord which is just straight up too good, since Kudro was pushed, packed with text and not particularly well adopted into Standard decks and because they don't want their set to be overshadowed by the OPness of MH2 or the likely splashiness of D&D and it'll be a brutally obvious Mythic chase card with four different, increasingly expensive and exclusive versions.
goofy hopes:
a new cycle of utility lands with 2c activation costs (like Moorland Haunt, Alchemist's Refuge) - I think these are always the most welcomed in casual circles and there can never be enough

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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

Emmy kinda banished herself. Itself? Via possession of Tamiyo.
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Post by The N82O Molecule » 2 years ago

what do we know of the moon, as I recall the helevault was a piece of the moon? like. . .is the moon still the moon and the helevualt is in little pieces or not? like where was innastrad when we left, I know ol Emmy was there and the helevault business but otherwise

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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

The N82O Molecule wrote:
2 years ago
what do we know of the moon, as I recall the helevault was a piece of the moon? like. . .is the moon still the moon and the helevualt is in little pieces or not? like where was innastrad when we left, I know ol Emmy was there and the helevault business but otherwise
Let's see here, if I recall correctly, the following was true when we left Innistrad:

The Moon is made of Moonsilver (thus the name), and Emmy is sealed in it (by its own choice). The Helvault is still destroyed.

The Church of Avacyn has been disbanded because it became clear that it had been thoroughly corrupted by a combination of the Skirsdag cult and Emmy's influence. Before it was completely dissolved, a splinter group broke away from it focused on Sigarda and led by Thalia.

Sigarda is the last surviving arch-angel, however we've learned that the four sisters were not created by Sorin, they were already there when Avacyn was created, so it is possible that new Innistradi arch angels will eventually rise.

Most of the werewolves, led by Ulrich and Arlinn Kord worked to protect as many humans as possible during Eldritch Moon, so their packs currently have a somewhat peaceful alliance with the Sigardan Church.

Avacyn no longer exists, Sorin was forced to destroy her as part of a bargain he made with Olivia Voldaren to join his crusade against Nahiri on the plane.

Olivia Voldaren currently considers herself the most powerful vampire on Innistrad, and her clan is the most numerous and prosperous of the 13 families, mostly because a large part of the Markov line got slaughtered by Nahiri.

The Falkenrath's fell under Emmy's sway and got mutated, so they are now much more monstrous than the other vampires of Innistrad, many of them having large bat-like wings or tentacles sprouting from their backs. This has turned a large number of them more feral but also made them more solitary. Anje has managed to gather a small group of them and want to use them to take over her old family castle, currently held by a bunch of monks.

Hanweir no longer exists. The entire city got mutated by Emmy.

Hal and Alana are both still live (and that is what's really important.)

Did I miss anything?
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Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
2 years ago
Did I miss anything?
What do we know about Thalia? I want Thalia 3.0

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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

duducrash wrote:
2 years ago
Krishnath wrote:
2 years ago
Did I miss anything?
What do we know about Thalia? I want Thalia 3.0
As far as we know she's still alive and well, and part of the Sigardan church. She broke with the Avacynian church when it was clear that the angels had gone insane.
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Post by The N82O Molecule » 2 years ago

I understood that the moon was moon silver and the helevault was a piece of the moon. will the individual chunks of the helevault still have power?

its good that the moon is still there and able to transform the werewolf. but for some reason I am curious about the individual pieces.

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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

The N82O Molecule wrote:
2 years ago
I understood that the moon was moon silver and the helevault was a piece of the moon. will the individual chunks of the helevault still have power?

its good that the moon is still there and able to transform the werewolf. but for some reason I am curious about the individual pieces.
Well, as smaller pieces tend to get forged into equipment (such as Moonsilver Spear), I think it is a pretty safe bet that the pieces still hold some power.
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Post by CorpseTheClown » 2 years ago

duducrash wrote:
2 years ago
Baseless speculation!

I think Emrakull will be exerting influence from the moon Imprisoned in the Moon the moon being connected to werewolves may make them stronger. maybe at first they will be stronger and hunt the other beings in innistrad. This may be a wolves vs vampires type of deal?

But the only thing that matters is : Thalia 3.0
You misspronounced Olivia 3.0

Also hopefully the two new Innistrad sets give some love to allied colour pairs, after the wedges and the enemy colour pairs got so much in Ikoria and Strixhaven. I mean, Rakdos in particular only got Immersturm Predator in Kaldheim and nothing else realy since Theros Beyond Death

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