Superimposition: Choices before costs

[Pygyzy]

Okay so this card is obviously UN but it does make me wonder if the rules would support a spell that could have different modes or costs before you've paid its mana cost. I made this card as a Un version of a modal spell/split card as a joke but the idea is interesting. Yes it could be done as any other modal spell but that's not the point. Could something like this work within the rules?

This is a split card split vertically except for the type line and the part of the textbox containing the superimposition text. It's colorless except for the part of the text box with the text for Other and Hand. It's all in one text box. Colorless at the top with superimposition, red on the bottom left with the text for Other and black on the bottom right with the text for Hand.

Other R // Hand B
Sorcery
(This card is either side but not both. It's colorless unless it's not.)
Superimposition — As you announce this spell, before costs are paid, hide an untapped Swamp you control and a untapped Mountain you control behind your back, one in each hand. An opponent chooses your left or your right. Reveal the chosen hand. If it's a Mountain, this spell is red and is Other. If it's a Swamp, this spell is black and is Hand.
//Left side
Put a card from your hand on the bottom of your library, then draw two cards.
//Right side
An opponent puts two cards from their hand on top of their library. If they do, they draw a card from the bottom of their library.

I intentionally made it untargeted since that could cause problems.

[user_938036]

The very first problem is it took three reads before I understood what was going on at all. This is absurdly complex for what seems absolutely no gain the fact that when written out you use left hand and right hand and then define the text as left side and right side is a nightmare. The second problem is I hide a Blood Crypt in both hands, by the text of the card it should be OtherHand but by the text of the card, it can't be both. The method for making it a color is multiple levels of confusion and tediousness that don't seem necessary at all. Third problem is how the heck does "It's colorless unless it's not" actually function? Does a card like painter's servant make it colored? The fact that you have a can't that says it looses to can is doubly confusing because it contradicts one of the most stable rules of magic. Also, this is supposed to be a 1 mana spell but it requires you to have an untapped mountain and an untapped swamp effectively making it cost RB. I understand the requirement is so that you don't declare the spell and then go "oh well I wanted to cast Hand but you chose other and I can't actually cast that one so the game does a forced rewind." But that begs the question of how to handle any cost above a single mana of a single color.

Ignoring execution and trying to dissect the actual idea. I don't think you properly conveyed what the Idea is meant to be. Because of the ability Superimposition, this card functions as:

Other Hand RB
Sorcery
This card is colorless everywhere but the stack.
Flip a coin. If heads, untap a Swamp you control and put a card from your hand on the bottom of your library. Then draw two cards. If tails, untap a Mountain you control and an opponent of your choice puts two cards from their hand on top of their library. If they do, they draw a card from the bottom of their library.

Why would you want to do this? Is the purpose just to have a card that is either X or Y but specifically not both?

[Pygyzy]

The very first problem is it took three reads before I understood what was going on at all. This is absurdly complex for what seems absolutely no gain the fact that when written out you use left hand and right hand and then define the text as left side and right side is a nightmare. The second problem is I hide a Blood Crypt in both hands, by the text of the card it should be OtherHand but by the text of the card, it can't be both. The method for making it a color is multiple levels of confusion and tediousness that don't seem necessary at all. Third problem is how the heck does "It's colorless unless it's not" actually function? Does a card like painter's servant make it colored? The fact that you have a can't that says it looses to can is doubly confusing because it contradicts one of the most stable rules of magic. Also, this is supposed to be a 1 mana spell but it requires you to have an untapped mountain and an untapped swamp effectively making it cost RB. I understand the requirement is so that you don't declare the spell and then go "oh well I wanted to cast Hand but you chose other and I can't actually cast that one so the game does a forced rewind." But that begs the question of how to handle any cost above a single mana of a single color.

Ignoring execution and trying to dissect the actual idea. I don't think you properly conveyed what the Idea is meant to be. Because of the ability Superimposition, this card functions as:

Other Hand RB
Sorcery
This card is colorless everywhere but the stack.
Flip a coin. If heads, untap a Swamp you control and put a card from your hand on the bottom of your library. Then draw two cards. If tails, untap a Mountain you control and an opponent of your choice puts two cards from their hand on top of their library. If they do, they draw a card from the bottom of their library.

Why would you want to do this? Is the purpose just to have a card that is either X or Y but specifically not both?

Thank you for your input it was helpful.

Well it was hard to figure out how to convey a split card split down the middle but sharing a text box and different colors sometimes. The concept seems simple to me, it's one spell or the other. Just what that means is the hard part. At first it started out as what could an Un-Split card look like. So I settled on split down the middle and it's two spells but you're not sure which. Superimposition seemed perfect. You don't know what it is til you measure it.

Originally I just had you hide a Swamp and a mountain until I realized if you didn't like the outcome you could rewind. Bluffing and mini games would be a theme in my Un set. Yes it's very similar to flipping a coin 99%, which is how I'd do it if it were a regular set. But since it's designed for an Un set it it was designed as "here's a funny idea, I wonder if this would actually work within normal rules and what would that be". working on a fix so it works as intended.

Your design works, I just want to explore what the rules could reasonably support and if "a spell that's 2 different spells but you don't know which" could function. So it's an exercise in rules wrangling. And I do have ideas for cards with more than one mana. Will post a fixed design.

[user_938036]

If the goal was just "a card that you don't know what version you're getting each time you cast it" is the goal look at more actually out there effects that are only usable in unsets such as the scratch-off cards they attempted for unglued 2. A more reasonable version of such effects is seen on the Urza's head planeswalker card. You check a website to see what the ability you just activated is. Uncards don't need to be constrained by the rules; the point is that as long as you can understand what is going on it functions the way you think it does. Your split card doesn't function the way you expect because it isn't the things that it says it is. A one mana spell, a black or red card.

The idea of a card that is multiple cards but you don't know which is a fun concept but it has to be executed in a way that is fun. The idea of hiding what you spells are is something they even tried in black boarder to limited success in Ice Cauldron and Illusionary Mask. Having different mana costs on these cards seems like the largest hurdle. Because you are working in unland you can just handwave a large number of problems away that you couldn't in black boarder.

Pain RR//Torture BB
Sorcery
Superimposition(This card is colorless everywhere but the stack. You can not begin to cast this card unless you could cast either half. As you cast this spell {mini game of some kind(the hiding lands is tedious, boring, and ripe for abuse)} If you win, this card is Pain. If you lose, this card is Torture. Continue the process of casting this spell.)
Pain deals 2 damage to every target. // Each player reveals their hand. Choose a card type other than land. Each player discards all cards of the chosen type.

Because you make the decision which card it is as you begin to cast you can leave targets on the effects. You can also use difficult targeting restrictions to powerup both half. Whatever mini-game you decide on needs to be either amusing or meaningful. If 99% of the time a coin flip would suffice then there is no need for a minigame just flip a coin. By suffice I mean accomplish the same thing and be as interesting or impactful as. Don't do a minigame where the correct answer is to not have fun.

[Pygyzy]

If the goal was just "a card that you don't know what version you're getting each time you cast it" is the goal look at more actually out there effects that are only usable in unsets such as the scratch-off cards they attempted for unglued 2. A more reasonable version of such effects is seen on the Urza's head planeswalker card. You check a website to see what the ability you just activated is. Uncards don't need to be constrained by the rules; the point is that as long as you can understand what is going on it functions the way you think it does. Your split card doesn't function the way you expect because it isn't the things that it says it is. A one mana spell, a black or red card.

The idea of a card that is multiple cards but you don't know which is a fun concept but it has to be executed in a way that is fun. The idea of hiding what you spells are is something they even tried in black boarder to limited success in Ice Cauldron and Illusionary Mask. Having different mana costs on these cards seems like the largest hurdle. Because you are working in unland you can just handwave a large number of problems away that you couldn't in black boarder.

Pain RR//Torture BB
Sorcery
Superimposition(This card is colorless everywhere but the stack. You can not begin to cast this card unless you could cast either half. As you cast this spell {mini game of some kind(the hiding lands is tedious, boring, and ripe for abuse)} If you win, this card is Pain. If you lose, this card is Torture. Continue the process of casting this spell.)
Pain deals 2 damage to every target. // Each player reveals their hand. Choose a card type other than land. Each player discards all cards of the chosen type.

Because you make the decision which card it is as you begin to cast you can leave targets on the effects. You can also use difficult targeting restrictions to powerup both half. Whatever mini-game you decide on needs to be either amusing or meaningful. If 99% of the time a coin flip would suffice then there is no need for a minigame just flip a coin. By suffice I mean accomplish the same thing and be as interesting or impactful as. Don't do a minigame where the correct answer is to not have fun.

Thank you. This essentially works the way I intend it to. It seemed real simple at first (it's just a split spell, doesn't seem hard) until I was in way over my head trying to solve the millions of problems it caused. I appreciate the input it helped me figure out the flaws and fixes. I think I have a fix for the mini game too

[Pygyzy]

Pain RR//Torture BB
Sorcery
Superimposition(This card is colorless except as it's resolving. Cast this spell only if you can cast both halves. Rather than cast this spell, shuffle a mountain and a swamp on the battlefield, face down. An opponent chooses one. Reveal it. If a Mountain is revealed, superimpose Pain. If a Swamp is revealed, superimpose Torture .)
Pain deals 2 damage to every target. // Each player reveals their hand. Choose a card type other than land. Each player discards all cards of the chosen type.

Ok so this way you can actually get both spells (I think). Using the superimpose as a keyword action helps too. Just means becomes this spell.

One interesting aspect of this (always something) if you have 2 duals and hide 2 duals you'd superimpose both but only be able to cast one. However (and since it's UN) technically you could be allowed to walk back one essentially casting the spell of your choice. It's a bit of a rules stretch but I think it could fly. "Rather than cast this spell" is strange phrasing but I think it works.

Funnily enough I have one more route I wanna try with this but it would be a functional change and it would eliminate some rules issues while adding others. Will post once I've fleshed it out more

[user_938036]

Ok, that looks good but "rather than cast" doesn't actually work because you are, in fact, casting the spell. You are putting it on the stack choosing modes and targets and paying costs; so you are casting the spell.

I think you want "Rather than choosing which part of this card to cast..." Because you are still casting it you just aren't the one who chooses which card you get to cast. I think the normal rules could actually handle such a card. The major complication comes from the split mana costs making it possible to want to cast only half and thus rewinding whenever you fail to choose that half. Uncards can hand wave with the "Cast this spell only if you can cast both halves" but the actual rules can't easily handle such a distinction.

[Pygyzy]

Ok, that looks good but "rather than cast" doesn't actually work because you are, in fact, casting the spell. You are putting it on the stack choosing modes and targets and paying costs; so you are casting the spell.

I think you want "Rather than choosing which part of this card to cast..." Because you are still casting it you just aren't the one who chooses which card you get to cast. I think the normal rules could actually handle such a card. The major complication comes from the split mana costs making it possible to want to cast only half and thus rewinding whenever you fail to choose that half. Uncards can hand wave with the "Cast this spell only if you can cast both halves" but the actual rules can't easily handle such a distinction.

Ya I got my terminology mixed up cuz I was gonna put rather than pay this spells mana cost but that doesn't work. I meant to make it a replacement instead of casting it, do mini game to cast it. I guess as you cast this spell would suffice.

Pain RR //Torture BB
Sorcery
(This card is colorless except as it's resolving. Cast this spell only if you can cast both halves.)
Superimpose — If you would cast this spell, shuffle a mountain and a swamp on the battlefield, face down instead. An opponent chooses one. Reveal it. If it's a Mountain, superimpose Pain then cast it. If it's a Swamp, superimpose Torture then cast it.
Pain deals 2 damage to every target. // Each player reveals their hand. Choose a card type other than land. Each player discards all cards of the chosen type.