A few questions for a shared library format

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BOVINE
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Post by BOVINE » 4 years ago

These questions are with a single shared library in mind.

I have a mechanic called Iterate:
Iterate (Shuffle this card into the library as it resolves.)

Example:
Total Ferocity RG
Instant
Tap and exert target attacking creature. It gets +X/+0 and gains trample until end of turn where X is its power.
Iterate (Shuffle this card into the library as it resolves.)




My first question though is about a specific card:

Divine Intervention v1 3WU
Sorcery
Shuffle all nonland permanents into the library.
Iterate (Shuffle this card into the library as it resolves.)




I want to make sure that Divine Intervention v1 isn't going to cause two shuffles according to rules. I want to maintain consistency across cards with Iterate if possible but have v2 below to avoid the potential double shuffle.

Divine Intervention v2 3WU
Sorcery
Shuffle this card and all nonland permanents into the library.




Does v1 shuffle in the same time as the nonland permanents or is v2 my route?





Question two
In this format you can play any card face-down as a land that can tap for one mana of any type. I'm looking for the best way to solve this issue. Can the format imply that when a card is played face-down as a land it inherently taps for one mana of any type? Or do I need to spell it out? If i need to spell it out, what would be my best route?

Example:

Cultivation 2g
Sorcery
Look at the top three cards of the library. Put one into play tapped and face-down as a land with "t: Add one mana of any type." Put the rest on the bottom of the library in any order.
Iterate (Shuffle this card into the library as it resolves.)








Question 3

Because the library and thus sleeves are shared, I can get a little whacky with my design space.

Example:

This for That uU
Instant
Replace target spell you don't control with a card in your hand with the same or greater converted mana cost. (Put the target spell into your hand.)




How's my wording for This for That?





Thanks for your time and insight
B O V I N E

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

BOVINE wrote:
4 years ago
Does v1 shuffle in the same time as the nonland permanents or is v2 my route?
As written, V1 would shuffle twice.
Another option you could use is 'Put all nonland permanents on top of the library. Iterate.', similar to Gomazoa and Void Stalker.
BOVINE wrote:
4 years ago
In this format you can play any card face-down as a land that can tap for one mana of any type. I'm looking for the best way to solve this issue. Can the format imply that when a card is played face-down as a land it inherently taps for one mana of any type? Or do I need to spell it out? If i need to spell it out, what would be my best route?
By default, face-down cards on the battlefield are defined to be 2/2 creatures with no abilities, due to morph. Due to memory issues, I would highly discourage mixing morph cards with face-down land cards. Playing face-down cards as lands can also cause balance issues alongside cards like Felidar Guardian and Flickerwisp - is this intentional?

I'll also inquire as to the motivation behind using face-down cards as lands. My assumption is so that you don't need to also have a stack of lands available in addition to the shared library. Otherwise, you could just give each player an emblem similar to Sovereign's Realm to allow them to play lands from outside the game.

The recommendation I would have would be to have players start with an emblem like:
"Face-down cards you control are lands with "{t}: add one mana of any color."
You may play cards from your hand face-down as if they were lands.
"
BOVINE wrote:
4 years ago
How's my wording for This for That?
I'm going to point to Five-Finger Discount regarding to wording the ability to put the card into your hand - this ability looks to be in silver-bordered territory. Alternatively, you could use Mary O'Kill's switch ability. Something like:
"Switch a nonland card in your hand with target spell that has the same or lesser converted mana cost. Its controller may choose new targets for it."

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BOVINE
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Post by BOVINE » 4 years ago

All of this is incredibly helpful! Thank you!


Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
I'll also inquire as to the motivation behind using face-down cards as lands. My assumption is so that you don't need to also have a stack of lands available in addition to the shared library.
You're right about my desire to not include land cards. That's for a few reasons (and probably more):
  • With 100 nonland cards the format can support 4 players.
  • Space and weight savings are a major concern as I frequently travel internationally with only a backpack. Not a lot of wiggle room for MtG.
  • Playing cards as lands virtually removes cards from the card pool which varies the games just that little bit more and makes it feel a little cubey.
  • This format will be entirely custom so wonky interactions and memory issues ought to be avoidable by the designer of each 100 card list. That being said I realize face-down cards are 2/2 creatures but players will be sitting down knowing the rules (that they can play a card from hand as a land) and are aware that lands are sitting where lands typically physically sit on the table. A more elegant solution is certainly desirable. Your recommendation is probably the golden ticket here.
Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
The recommendation I would have would be to have players start with an emblem like:
"Face-down cards you control are lands with "{t}: add one mana of any color."
You may play cards from your hand face-down as if they were lands."



Mookie wrote:
4 years ago
Another option you could use is 'Put all nonland permanents on top of the library. Iterate.', similar to Gomazoa and Void Stalker.
One day I'll see these elegant solutions on me own :crazy:


This for That will probably hit the can. With only 100 cards available I'm looking to be more creative than simply hard countering things.


Thanks again!
B O V I N E

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spacemonaut
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Post by spacemonaut » 4 years ago

If you still want to be able to have Morph in the format, consider this variant on that same emblem:
Face-down cards you control with awaken counters on them are lands with "T: Add one mana of any color."

You may play cards from your hand face-down with an awaken counter on them as if they were lands.

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BOVINE
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Post by BOVINE » 4 years ago

Ooo I like that. Thank you. At first I was thinking I'd just not have morph/manifest but I'd hate to restrict myself. Thank you both.

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