Thirteen Temples of Theros: of gods, men, and road trips

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

Welcome everyone, my custom set project is finally underway! You can read everything regarding what this project is about, as well as to how it came to be, by checking out this topic: I would like to take this opportunity to thank [mention]Dragonlover[/mention], [mention]Henlock[/mention], [mention]SecretInfiltrator[/mention] and especially [mention]void_nothing[/mention], whose contributions to said topic helped me tremendously in getting this project going. I also would like to thank [mention]Jace[/mention], formerly known as Tiro of Meletis on Salvation, who's helped me a lot figuring out the minutiae of Theros' flavor. I'll probably need to rely on you again going forward, buddy.

So yeah, this topic will be dedicated to showing off my creations as part of this project: I will reserve below a post for each color of mana, plus a post for multicolor and one for colorless/lands. For now the first five posts will contain a quick explanation of what each color is about, as well as the two Mythic Rare cards I've created for that color, while the last two posts will be empty: whenever I finish creating a new batch of cards I'l put them in the relevant post, an update the topic to let you know that my new creations are out. Please keep in mind that my health conditions are still shaky, and it is summer to boot, so I'm not going to have a precise, regular update schedule: it's gonna be quite erratic, but I'll get it done eventually. In a perfect world I would like this project to be complete by the time my videogame design course resumes in october, as my supervisor told me that, if I manage to show him a complete project, he'll have the whole class draft it; I sure hope I'll manage to make that deadline.

So without further ado, here are two elements that will characterize the set across all colors:

Enchantments matter: I mean, of course. This IS Theros after all, so expect to see plenty of cards that search, support, bolster or protect enchantments, or that are enchantments themselves.

Denounce: a new keyword ability. I will write its reminder text here so that I don't have to repeat it every time.
Denounce [cost] (You may cast this spell for its Denounce cost if you target at least one Enchantment with it.)

This is all for now: as a final note, I will also put my best effort into conveying my ideas for the story, and how t intertwines with the current state of Theros, through the names and the flavor texts of the cards. By the time you read this I'll probably be in the process of setting up the aforementioned reserved posts, but once I'm done doing that, you're welcome to post your ideas, impressions, and constructive criticism: here's hoping this will be a project to remember!
Last edited by TearsOfTomorrow 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
void_nothing
Look On My Sash...
Posts: 14924
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Tal Terig, Zendikar

Post by void_nothing » 4 years ago

If you need to rename slayer - deicide?
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

The greatest (fake) pro wrestling on the internet - Collaborative Create-A-Booster - My random creations (updated regularly)

Important Facts: Colorless is not a color, Wastes is not a land type, Changeling is not a creature type

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

WHITE

The color of theology, faith, divine guidance, and bounty hunting. While faith in the gods is still strong on Theros, Ajani's actions following Elspeth's death have triggered some interesting changes in the plane's theological debates, whose consequences will mainly be visible in white cards. Mechanically, both Bestow and Heroic will make a return, although the latter will be more prominent in red.

Common

Heart of Kytheon - 1W
Creature - Pegasus
Flying
2/2
Chandra and Nissa soon realized that Gideon wasn't as renowned on his home plane. They set out to rectify that.

Memory of an Adversary - W
Instant
Exile target attacking creature. Return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step.
"Of course I hate them. But I also respect them, as fellow warriors."
Anax, King of Akros


Uncommon

Eidolon of Blessings - 1W
Enchantment Creature - Spirit
Bestow 4W
Whenever // or enchanted creature deals combat damage to an opponent, reveal the top card of your library. You may put it in your hand if it is an enchantment.
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1
1/1

Write on Earthenware - 3W
Enchantment
Flash
When // enters the battlefield, exile target nonland permanent until // leaves the battlefield.
That's what "ostracize" literally means.

Rare

Academy Sophist - 3W
Creature - Human Advisor
When // enters the battlefield, you may search your library for an enchantment card, reveal it, put it in your hand, then shuffle your library.
1/2
"If it is our faith that gives the gods the power to grant their blessings, then in our faith we should find our own."

Banisher Archon - 3W
Enchantment Creature - Archon
Bestow 5W
Flying, First Strike
If a creature dealt damage by // or by enchanted creature would die this turn, exile it instead
Enchanted creature gets +3/+3 and has Flying and First Strike
3/3

Mythic

Embodiment of the Sun - 1WW
Legendary Creature - God
Vigilance
As long as your devotion to white is five or more, // becomes an enchantment creature and gains Indestructible.
When // enters the battlefield, or when you cast a white spell while // is an enchantment, create a 2/1 white Cleric enchantment creature token.
2/3

Kaya, Undead Slayer - 1WWW
Legendary Planeswalker - Kaya
+2 You gain life equal to your devotion to white
+1 Until your next upkeep, creatures cannot enter the battlefield from graveyards
-3 Exile target creature and all creatures with the same name as that target
-8 Exile all cards from all graveyards. For each creature card exiled this way, create a 1/1 white Spirit creature token with Flying
Starting Loyalty: 3
Last edited by TearsOfTomorrow 4 years ago, edited 12 times in total.

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

BLUE

The color of philosophical debates, knowledge, intelligence, and manipulation of other people's dreams. Blue is going to feature the usual slew of counterspells, draw power, and back to hand spells, of course flavored to fit the setting. It's also going to feature Nightmare tribal!

Common

Distorted Memory - 1U
Enchantment Creature - Nightmare
Flash
When // enters the battlefield, exile it unless you exile another permanent you control.
When // enters the battlefield, draw a card.
3/2
"Phenax is the god of distortion and cacophony. Uh, that's how it has always been, right?"
Perisophia, the Philosopher


Unable to Wake Up - 2U THIS IS A PLACEHOLDER NAME BECAUSE "SLEEP PARALYSIS" WAS ALREADY TAKEN
Enchantment - Aura
Flash
Enchant creature
When // enters the battlefield, tap enchanted creature.
Enchanted creature doesn't untap during its controller's untap step.
"The real world belongs to men. The dream world belongs to gods. But that subtle limbo in-between... That's where I reign supreme."
Ashiok


Uncommon

Featherless Biped - 2U
Instant
Denounce U
Exile target nonland permanent with converted mana cost 3 or less. Its controller creates a 2/2 blue Bird creature token with flying.
Behold! I've brought you a man.

Intellect Devourer - 1UU
Enchantment Creature - Nightmare
Flash
When // enters the battlefield, exile it unless you exile another permanent you control.
When // enters the battlefield, exile the top two cards of target player's library.
4/3
"The temple of Heliod? I'm sorry ma'am, I can't remember."
Brigone, Soldier of Meletis


Sophistic Debate - U shout-out to [mention]Henlock[/mention]!
Instant
Counter target spell.
Counter the next spell you cast.
Sophists of Meletis are willing to disprove their own arguments for the sake of messing with others.

Rare

Bane of Mages - 2UU
Enchantment Creature - Nightmare
Flash
When // enters the battlefield, exile it unless you exile another permanent you control.
When // enters the battlefield, exile target spell.
5/4
"Our own minds abandoning us... This is a poison even I don't have the antidote for."
Aescalos, Healer of Pharika


Chosen of Ashiok - 1U
Enchantment Creature - Human Nightmare
When // enters the battlefield, look at the top four cards of your library. You may reveal an instant, sorcery, or Nightmare creature card from among them, put it in your hand, then put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
1/3
"By following him, I have transcended the boundaries of my own humanity."

Thassa's Disdain - 3UU
Instant
Return all nonenchantment creatures and all planeswakers to their owner's hand.
"You are the same as that woman. You will tell me where my bident is."

Mythic

Embodiment of the Sea - 1UU
Legendary Creature - God
Hexproof
As long as your devotion to blue is five or more, // becomes an enchantment creature and gains Indestructible.
When // enters the battlefield, or when you cast a blue spell while // is an enchantment, target creature you control can't be blocked this turn.
2/2

Ashiok, Nurturer of Nightmares - 2UU
Legendary Planeswalker - Ashiok
Whenever you draw a card, exile the top card of target player's library
+2 Tap target permanent. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step
0 Draw two cards, then exile two cards from your hand unless you exile an enchantment card
-3 Create Cacophony, a legendary blue and black Nightmare creature token. It has "This creature's power and toughness are each equal to the number of cards in exile"
Starting Loyalty: 4
Last edited by TearsOfTomorrow 4 years ago, edited 12 times in total.

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

BLACK

The color of death, necromancy, destruction, and grief over one's past misdeeds. Liliana's presence is of course going to make the Returned much more relevant in this set than they were in canon Theros: there's also going to be a minor -1/-1 counters theme, which will become more relevant in the follow-up set (if/when I get around to making that one), where it will mainly be associated with Pharika.

Common

March of the Returned - B
Sorcery
Choose one -
- Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
- Return two target enchantment creature cards from your graveyard to your hand.
"That's wrong on so many levels."
Nissa


Uncommon

Kill and Recycle 3BB
Sorcery
Denounce 2B
Destroy target nonblack creature, then put a token on the battlefield under your control that is a copy of that creature, except it's a black Zombie.
"There, zombie centaurs. Fast and strong as before, but now they'll ferry us across for free. Can we PLEASE proceed?"
Liliana


Rare

Abhorrent Poisoner 5BB
Creature - Demon
Flying
When // enters the battlefield, distribute among creatures you don't control a number of -1/-1 counters equal to your devotion to black.
6/6
"I'm done dealing with demons. Now THEY deal with ME."
Liliana


Mythic

Embodiment of the Dead - 1BB
Legendary Creature - God
Deathtouch
As long as our devotion to black is five or more, // becomes an enchantment creature and gains Indestructible.
When // enters the battlefield, or when you cast a black spell while // is an enchantment, you draw a card and lose 1 life.
2/3

Liliana, Crushing Despair - 1BBB
Legendary Planeswalker - Liliana
+2 Create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token
+1 Each player discards a card. If an opponent cannot, they lose 2 life
-3 Target creature gets -X/-X until en of turn, where X is your devotion to black
-8 You get an emblem with "Whenever a creature attacks you or a planeswalker you control, exile it, then create a token under your control that's a copy of that creature, except it's a black Zombie"
Starting Loyalty: 3
Last edited by TearsOfTomorrow 4 years ago, edited 8 times in total.

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

RED

The color of bravery, zeal, battle ardor, and accidentally setting forests on fire. As mentioned under White, Heroic a a mechanic is going to make a return, and it will mainly be relevant in red. With Chandra being on the scene, you should also expect quite a few burn spells, and a couple creatures with Monstrosity are also going to exist in this color.

Common

Anax's Honor Guard - R
Creature - Human Soldier
Heroic - Whenever you cast a spell that targets //, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
1/1
To earn their king's favor, they'll fight against overwhelming odds. To keep his favor, they'll win.

Fearless Charge - R
Sorcery
Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains Haste until the end of the turn.
"They outnumber us three to one. We shall bring the fight to them."

Uncommon

Battlefield Oracle - 1R
Creature - Human Cleric
Heroic - Whenever you cast a spell that targets //, if it is an instant or sorcery spell, copy it and target another creature you control with the copy.
1/2
"The true blessing is the ability to share the blessings with my comrades."

Lightning Strike
Still Keranos' favorite way of converting unbelievers.

Minotaur Warcaller - 1RR
Creature - Minotaur Shaman
Whenever another minotaur creature enters the battlefield under your control, it gets +1/+0 and gains Haste until the end of the turn.
2/2
"We spread the core concept of Mogis' philosophy: massacre those who wrong you. And those who don't wrong you too, come to think of it."

Rare

Felling the Giants - XXR
Instant
Denounce XR
// deals X damage to each of up to two targets.
"Well, this sure brings back memories."
Chandra


Seotris, Chieftain of Mogis - 2R
Legendary Creature - Minotaur Berserker
2R: Monstrosity 2
Other minotaur creatures you control have Monstrosity 2. Their Monstrosity cost is equal to their casting cost.
As long as a minotaur you control is monstrous, it has Double Strike.
2/2

Mythic

Embodiment of the Forge - 1RR
Legendary Creature - God
Haste
As long a your devotion to red is five or more, // becomes an enchantment creature and gains Indestructible.
When // enters the battlefield, or when you cast a red spell while // is an enchantment, other creatures you control get +1/+0 until the end of the turn.
3/2

Chandra, Burning Curiosity - 1RR
Legendary Planeswalker - Chandra
Whenever damage is dealt to a green permanent you control, put that many loyalty counters on //.
+1 Exile the top card of your library. You may play it this turn.
-3 Create a 3/1 red and green Elemental token with Haste
-8 You get an emblem with "Lands you control have 'T: This land deals 1 damage to any target'."
Starting loyalty: 3
Last edited by TearsOfTomorrow 4 years ago, edited 8 times in total.

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

GREEN

The color of nature, inner peace, wild forces, and being embarrassed by the antics of one's SO. When it comes to green, the name of the game is Monstrosity: with Nissa on the plane there's obviously going to be a lot of ramping going on, so the color really needs some big bad mana sinks. And that's exactly what it's going to get.

Common

Sylvan Ascetic - 1G
Creature - Satyr Shaman
T: Add G
1/2
Not all satyrs are depraved revelers.

Uncommon

Centaur Ferryman - 2GG
Creature - Centaur
Swampwalk, Islandwalk
When // attacks, another target creature you control gains your choice of swampwalk or islandwalk until the end of the turn.
3/3
"We'll gladly ferry pretty ladies like you... But you'll need to do something for us in return, you know what I mean?"
Darysios the centaur, to Liliana, last words.


Rare

Courser of Kruphix

Nissa's Mastery - 3GG
When // enters the battlefield, search your library for up to two basic land cards, reveal them, put them in your hand, then shuffle your library.
Whenever you tap a land for mana, add one mana of any type that land produced.
"Years of training as an animist have qualified me for fixing the disasters my partner causes."

Runaway Cyclops - 4GG
Enchantment Creature - Giant
Trample, Reach
2GG: Monstrosity 4
When // becomes monstrous, it fights another creature of your choice. Repeat this process for each other creature on the battlefield.
3/6
"Great, now it's an angry invulnerable giant that's on fire. Other brilliant ideas?"
Nissa, to Chandra


Mythic

Embodiment of the Hunt - 1GG
Legendary Creature - God
Trample
As long as your devotion to green is five or more, // becomes an enchantment creature and gains Indestructible.
When // enters the battlefield, or when you cast a green spell while // is an enchantment, another target creatures gets +2/+2 until the end of the turn.
3/3

Nissa, Voice of Reason - 1GG
Legendary Planeswalker - Nissa
Whenever damage is dealt to a red permanent you control, put that many loyalty counters on //.
+1 Reveal the top card of your library. You may put it on the battlefield if it's a land. Otherwise put it in your hand
-3 Create a 1/3 red and green Elemental token with Vigilance
-8 You get an emblem with "Creatures you control have 'T: Untap target land'."
Starting loyalty: 3
Last edited by TearsOfTomorrow 4 years ago, edited 6 times in total.

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

Common

Law of Mogis - BR
Instant
Target creature gets +1/+0 and has Double Strike until the end of the turn.
Theros' equivalent to the expression "law of the jungle".

Uncommon

Rare

Gift of Knowledge - WU
Legendary Enchantment
Whenever a white or blue creature comes into play under your control, scry 1.
Look at all the discoveries and accomplishments of our precursors. That's something we can still believe in.

Gift of Love - RG
Legendary Enchantment
Whenever a red or green creature comes into play under your control, it gains haste.
They're so strong because of their mutual love. That's something we can still believe in.

Gift of Fertility - GW
Legendary Enchantment
Whenever a green or white creature comes into play under your control, search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, but it in your hand, then shuffle your library.
Through highs and lows, the land continues giving us its bounty. That's something we can still believe in.

Gift of Carnage - BR
Legendary Enchantment
Whenever a black or red creature comes into play under your control, // deals one damage to any target.
Yeah, ok. But still, their fervor in battle is admirable. That's something we can still believe in.

Gift of Cacophony - UB
Legendary Enchantment
Whenever a blue or black creature comes into play under your control, exile the top card of target player's library.
We can no longer believe in anything.

Mythic

Oracle of Karametra - 1GW
Creature - Human Cleric
When // enters the battlefield, draw cards equal to the number of enchantments you control.
Enchantments you control have Hexproof.
"If the people have forgotten just how much the gods have done for us, I shall remind them."
Last edited by TearsOfTomorrow 4 years ago, edited 2 times in total.


TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

void_nothing wrote:
4 years ago
If you need to rename slayer - deicide?
Phew, finally set everything up. To answer this: I had considered it, but as you yourself pointed out Deicide is a card, and its effect has nothing to do with the mechanic, so I'm not so sure about it :(

User avatar
Feyd_Ruin
Elder Vampire
Posts: 5400
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 3
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by Feyd_Ruin » 4 years ago

TearsOfTomorrow wrote:
4 years ago
Slayer: a new keyword ability (which probably needs a better name: the reasoning is that all cards with it represent spells that could be used to slay Nyxborn and potentially gods).
Denounce them. They are not real gods, nor are the nyxborn even divine. They are but edifices of a false world, brought to being only by the power of our delusions and broken beliefs. Denounce them, believe only in what is real, and they will cease to be.

Similar veins of thought are Blaspheme, Defile, Profane, Revile, etc.

Other ways to go:
You are severing their ties to Nyx: Sever/Dissever/Cleave/Sunder
You are severing Nyx itself from the world: Abolish/Revoke/Rescind
To the beaten, the broken, or the damned; the lost, and the wayward: wherever I may be, you will have a home.

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

Feyd_Ruin wrote:
4 years ago
Denounce them.
Dude, that's great! When you think about it, denouncing the gods is exactly what Ajani was doing in Ajani's Vengeance, and since my plan is to eventually reveal that his actions back then had some unforeseen consequences, having the new keyword sound like something that reminds you of those actions is absolutely perfect. Adopting this for sure :)

kwanyeegor-ii
Posts: 1912
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by kwanyeegor-ii » 4 years ago

As for the mechanics, monstrosity and denounce so far i guess, I really like them... as for the mythics you show though they mostly don't seem like mythics except for the planeswalkers
畫龍點睛

I'm a simple Magic player since several years ago from China. Now I live in New Jersey.

Henlock
Posts: 1510
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Contact:

Post by Henlock » 4 years ago

Nice job, I really, really like the parallel between the black spell and Liliana's ulti. I do think too that you can downgrade the spell to uncommon, so as to not have the same effect at the same rarity.

A couple of wording details:

In Kaya's +1, "until your next upkeep" is a bit more in line with current wording.
In Chosen by Ashiok, use "four", rather than the number. Numbers are usually used for damage and life.
In Ashiok, I think you can do away with "currently"
On Runaway Cyclops, you may want to have it "fight a creature of your choice" and "repeat this process for each creature", as to be more in line with current wording.
On Nissa, use "library" instead of "deck."

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

Henlock wrote:
4 years ago
Nice job, I really, really like the parallel between the black spell and Liliana's ulti. I do think too that you can downgrade the spell to uncommon, so as to not have the same effect at the same rarity.

A couple of wording details:

In Kaya's +1, "until your next upkeep" is a bit more in line with current wording.
In Chosen by Ashiok, use "four", rather than the number. Numbers are usually used for damage and life.
In Ashiok, I think you can do away with "currently"
On Runaway Cyclops, you may want to have it "fight a creature of your choice" and "repeat this process for each creature", as to be more in line with current wording.
On Nissa, use "library" instead of "deck."
Fine points concerning the wording of cards, I've made the suggested changes. And I also can see Kill and Recycle being fine at Uncommon: since there were complaints that some of the mythics don't really feel like mythics, I guess this means that black will be the color that will get the big, game-impacting mythic... As soon as I can come up with one.

In the meantime, I've created a cycle of legendary creatures that shows what the five main gods are up to these days. The idea is that, by taking on these mortal disguises, they can walk among mortals to try and find the cause of the turmoil that has been going on lately, and counteract the spreading dissent that threatens to undermine the faith of their followers: they can then tap into the devotion of those who still believe in order to go back to their usual divine form. This is also the reason why these are rare, as opposed to their godly selves which were mythic back in the original Theros: basically, the five main gods can willingly downgrade themselves, in terms of size, powers, and even card rarity, in order to walk among mortals for a short while. Should they hear or see something that enrages them, however, they will not hesitate to revert to their godly selves in order to fight, hence Thassa's Disdain: Nissa IS a green-aligned planeswalker from Zendikar, so of course Thassa, impetuous as she is, will jump to conclusions and assume she must know Kiora.

I've also created a few uncommons: one in particular you should be familiar with ;)

User avatar
SecretInfiltrator
Posts: 5701
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: they / them
Location: The Shattered Realm

Post by SecretInfiltrator » 4 years ago

Academy Theologian sounds extremely non-Theran for a cardname. It and Chosen of Ashiok are also incredibly bad choices for mythics.

Denounce conceptually is weird. Theros is an enchantment set, so you want players to play enchantments. This mechanic is themed as something that will cause enchantments to be a liability. You don't dedicate a mechanic to hosing a central theme of your setting.

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

SecretInfiltrator wrote:
4 years ago
Academy Theologian sounds extremely non-Theran for a cardname. It and Chosen of Ashiok are also incredibly bad choices for mythics.

Denounce conceptually is weird. Theros is an enchantment set, so you want players to play enchantments. This mechanic is themed as something that will cause enchantments to be a liability. You don't dedicate a mechanic to hosing a central theme of your setting.
1) On the contrary. The idea of having academies dedicated to philosophical and theological debates, and in fact the word "academy" itself, were invented in ancient Greece. So if anything the idea of "academy" is more pertinent to Theros than it is to any other plane.

2) You need to consider what enchantments stand for in Theros. They represent the guidance and the blessings granted by the gods, so why were enchantments so central in the canon Theros block? Because faith in the gods was a central theme.
This time around the central theme is not faith itself: rather, it is the conflict between the need for a higher ideal, and the cold reality that gods on Theros are a bunch of selfish jerkasses. The conflict between the love for tradition and the desire to carve a new path. The gods are jerks, but the world as a whole works: should I therefore swallow my prideand my personal wishes and dreamsto keep empowering beings who clearly don't care about me? Or should I gamble the greater good of the world on my own ability to find a new path?

Thus, I want the two aspects (enchantment support and enchantment anti-support) to be equally prominent in this set, in order to convey how on Theros the two factions (believers in the gods and people who no longer trust the gods and seek a new faith) are equally powerful right now.

Again, my goal is to reveal that the villain is exploiting this conflict for his own ends, and that the reason why he can do so is that, at the end of the canon Theros block, Ajani accidentally paved the way for him with his own actions. And what was Ajani doing back then? He was Denouncing the gods. Hence, Denounce.

User avatar
void_nothing
Look On My Sash...
Posts: 14924
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Tal Terig, Zendikar

Post by void_nothing » 4 years ago

I would argue Felling the Giants is a bad choice for a mythic too, since Fall of the Titans is rare!

Chosen of Ashiok is Augur of Bolas++ - that is absolutely not worthy of being a mythic in my opinion. Rare would even be pushing it.

Arena Rector is mythic because it calls back to Academy Rector - that means it tutors on death and puts the card onto the battlefield. Idyllic Tutor on a stick is powerful, but it's not worthy of being mythic. Academy Theologian is rare all the way (and "Theologian" seems too much like a... 1st century CE and later profession for a world that takes its cues from Classical Greece, not Byzantium).
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

The greatest (fake) pro wrestling on the internet - Collaborative Create-A-Booster - My random creations (updated regularly)

Important Facts: Colorless is not a color, Wastes is not a land type, Changeling is not a creature type

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

void_nothing wrote:
4 years ago
I would argue Felling the Giants is a bad choice for a mythic too, since Fall of the Titans is rare!

Chosen of Ashiok is Augur of Bolas++ - that is absolutely not worthy of being a mythic in my opinion. Rare would even be pushing it.

Arena Rector is mythic because it calls back to Academy Rector - that means it tutors on death and puts the card onto the battlefield. Idyllic Tutor on a stick is powerful, but it's not worthy of being mythic. Academy Theologian is rare all the way (and "Theologian" seems too much like a... 1st century CE and later profession for a world that takes its cues from Classical Greece, not Byzantium).
Mmm... Not bad points concerning the rarity of the cards... How about I just move up the incarnated gods?

Henlock
Posts: 1510
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Contact:

Post by Henlock » 4 years ago

A good boost for the incarnated gods would be turning the ETB triggers into upkeep triggers when they are enchantments. That

I'm honored tonsee Sophistic debate there, the flavor text mirrors exactly what I tjought.

On Denounce, the word is good but negative. The mechanic can be used to give boosts at reduced cost too when targetting annenchantment permanents. so a more neutral word for it would expand tje design space a lot.

User avatar
SecretInfiltrator
Posts: 5701
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: they / them
Location: The Shattered Realm

Post by SecretInfiltrator » 4 years ago

My problem is more with the "Theologian" part than the "Academy" part. Theology doesn't fit into a world, where philosophy is more universalist and theology covers everything as well since Gods are so much less abstract.
TearsOfTomorrow wrote:
4 years ago
2) You need to consider what enchantments stand for in Theros. They represent the guidance and the blessings granted by the gods, so why were enchantments so central in the canon Theros block? Because faith in the gods was a central theme.
This time around the central theme is not faith itself: rather, it is the conflict between the need for a higher ideal, and the cold reality that gods on Theros are a bunch of selfish jerkasses. The conflict between the love for tradition and the desire to carve a new path. The gods are jerks, but the world as a whole works: should I therefore swallow my prideand my personal wishes and dreamsto keep empowering beings who clearly don't care about me? Or should I gamble the greater good of the world on my own ability to find a new path?

Thus, I want the two aspects (enchantment support and enchantment anti-support) to be equally prominent in this set, in order to convey how on Theros the two factions (believers in the gods and people who no longer trust the gods and seek a new faith) are equally powerful right now.

Again, my goal is to reveal that the villain is exploiting this conflict for his own ends, and that the reason why he can do so is that, at the end of the canon Theros block, Ajani accidentally paved the way for him with his own actions. And what was Ajani doing back then? He was Denouncing the gods. Hence, Denounce.
Thematically you're not telling me anything new, but the mechanical concept is the issue. No matter how much you argue the flavor, that won't change that the mechanic if it appears in any amount associated with named mechanics will lead to worse gameplay. It's usually a better idea to show to factions opposing each other by showing how they thrive on different kinds of strength, rather than using direct hate mechanics.

Compare BfZ: You have a faction that has landfall, rallly, awaken and converge on the one side representing the coming together of the Zendikari natives across colors/races (rally, converge) and the way Zendikar itself joins that side (landfall, awaken), while on the Eldrazi side you have devoid as contrapoint to converge without either mechanic actually directly weakening the other, but showing a clear philosophical opposition. You get individual cards that are stronger against Eldrazi or animated lands, but no named mechanic that is used to specifically make colorless permanents easier to destroy.

Denounce is a drawback to a major part of the mechanical identity of the setting printed on other cards. You have a named mechanic to discourage players from playing enchantments on the enchantment plane. That's worse design against expectations than Wizards holding back constellation until the third set.

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

Big update everyone!
Changelog:

All colors
- The "incarnated gods" cycle has been buffed and upscaled to Mythic, downscaling the cards that had been deemed unworthy of Mythic status.

White
- Added one new card (Memory of an Adversary)
- Changed one card's name (Academy Theologian → Academy Philosopher)

Blue
- Added four new cards (Distorted Memory, Sleep Paralysis, Intellect Devourer, Bane of Mages)
- Modified the effect of Thassa's Disdain

Black
- Added one new card (March of the Returned)

Red
- Added one reprinted card (Lightning Strike)

Green
- Added one reprinted card (Courser of Kruphix)
- Added two new cards (Centaur Ferryman, Nissa's Mastery)

Concerning Denounce, after thinking about it the whole week-end I have decided not to follow [mention]SecretInfiltrator[/mention] 's advice, and I am therefore leaving the mechanic as is.
Since most disagreements on internet forums tend to immediately degenerate into personal animosity, allow me to clarify something: SI, I sincerely respect you, your ideas and your advice, the stuff you have said have proved greatly useful in the past, and there's no doubt in my mind that it will prove just as useful in the future. However, IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, I strongly believe that your view is mistaken, and I've thus decided not to follow your advice. Since this is meant to be a long-term project I would like to avoid cluttering the topic by quarreling over one specific instance, and I would therefore be thankful to you, and to everyone else reading this topic, if we could just leave it at that and move on. That said, I will gladly explain to you my reasons, and the reasons why I find your point of view to be mistaken, in a private conversation if you so desire.

That said, I can't wait to hear what everyone think about the new cards!

Henlock
Posts: 1510
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Contact:

Post by Henlock » 4 years ago

Really solid commons, I have to say. The white one can be used to retrigher your own ETB effects, which goes nicely with the Gods.

I really like the on-cast trigger of the embodiments. Goes pretty well with tje Devotion rheme. The black God is degenerate, so it might be good if it was a bit frailer.

Another thing I like is the blue nightmare mechanic. I think it might deserve an ability word. Of course ability words are mostly cosmetic, but it might be a nice touch and make any color bleeding more elegant.

TearsOfTomorrow
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by TearsOfTomorrow » 4 years ago

Henlock wrote:
4 years ago
Really solid commons, I have to say. The white one can be used to retrigger your own ETB effects, which goes nicely with the Gods.

I really like the on-cast trigger of the embodiments. Goes pretty well with the Devotion theme. The black God is degenerate, so it might be good if it was a bit frailer.

Another thing I like is the blue nightmare mechanic. I think it might deserve an ability word. Of course ability words are mostly cosmetic, but it might be a nice touch and make any color bleeding more elegant.
Glad you enjoyed the batch. I would like you to elaborate on incarnate Erebos being degenerate, so as to better figure out how to fix him. As for giving the nightmares an ability word, I'm not sure: I mean, it is essentially an added cost (exile another permanent or this card won't stay on the field), so I don't really know how to convey that with an ability word o.O

Anyway, yesterday I spent the whole day with a friend who is also interested in this project of mine: outside of suggesting a couple cool ideas, he also recommended a few surgical nerfs to three planswalkers (namely Kaya, Ashiok and Liliana) to prevent them from doing things that could be abusable in constructed formats (I'm mainly thinking about my creations in terms of Limited, so that point of view really helped).

So yeah, between his suggestions and my own new creations, here's another changelog:

WHITE
- Added one new card (Heart of Kytheon)
- Lowered Kaya's starting loyalty, slightly nerfed her ultimate

BLUE
- Changed Ashiok's 0 ability to keep it from setting up JtMS 2.0 situations.

BLACK
- Added one new card (Abhorrent Poisoner)
- Lowered Liliana's starting loyalty to mirror Kaya's

RED
- Added five new cards (Anax's Honor Guard, Fearless Charge, Battlefield Oracle, Minotaur Warcaller, Seotris Chieftain of Mogis)

GREEN
- Added one new card (Sylvan Mystic)

GOLD
- Added two new cards (Law of Mogis, Oracle of Karametra)

Henlock
Posts: 1510
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Contact:

Post by Henlock » 4 years ago

I'm not really saying Erebos it's broken, but it is a very powerful drawing engine, and that's lovely I think 4 toughness makes it too resilient to damage based removal and pressure. What I mean is that with those stats it makes it easy to drop early and wait for the devotion cap.

On nightmares, well, I don't really see it as a cost, but more as a "Do effect, then you may replace a permanent you control for this body" which is a very interesting mechanic. As if the nightmares were some kind of phenomena that takes form. It's just an idea, as I said, rather coametic in the end.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Custom Set Creation”