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Rithaniel
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Post by Rithaniel » 4 years ago

My Round 1 Judgings are finished.

That was exhausting.
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Post by Dragonlover » 4 years ago

Are we allowed to comment on other people designs once they've been judged?

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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 4 years ago

Rithaniel wrote:
4 years ago
I disagree with the message in the flavor text (love can mean a lot just by itself) but it conveys what Ayana is about very well. She's a mother who teaches her young to fight by fighting.
For the record, I don't agree with the flavor text as it is either. There was a real moment there when I just considered replacing it, but then preferred writing for the character, not for the author.
Rithaniel wrote:
4 years ago
Polish
(2/3) Quality — Taking a point off for using ~ in the card abilities. I know what you are referring to, and so would MSE, but the card is not named ~. It's like wearing a shirt without removing any of the tags. Everything else works, though.
Acknowledged. Can I have confirmation that this is the official position from here on out? Because that's how I write text cards. That's not going to change. Though I can avoid cards that refer to themselves by name in the future for that extra point.

Thanks for the work, Judges. I recall doing the dirty duty myself and I know why I keep on this side of the contest. There is no job more to be appreciated than the one you don't want to do yourself. : )

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Post by void_nothing » 4 years ago

That is the official position. Cards should appear like they would in Gatherer. So placeholder tildes are not kosher and you'll get marked off for them.
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Post by Kypster » 4 years ago

Rithaniel wrote:
4 years ago
My Round 1 Judgings are finished.

That was exhausting.
Thanks for the quick judging! And while it appears I won't be moving on to the next round, I appreciate the thoughtful feedback.

I have one question about the wording on the card, you mentioned that 'damage to them' should have been 'damage to that player'.
Kypster wrote:
4 years ago
Lakshmi, Unleashed Plague
(b) Legendary Creature - Vampire
Flying, Infect, Lifelink
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, Lakshmi, Unleashed Plague deals 1 damage to them.
1/1
I looked up this wording and found it on Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage Looking more carefully now, I see it's somewhat of an anomaly. Is there a reason that Davriel uses 'them' when most of the other cards use 'that player'?

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Post by Rithaniel » 4 years ago

That's a good question. I can't give an in depth analysis at the moment, but I was able to find a card with similar wording: Rivalry. If I were to take a guess right now, in my sleep-deprived state, I'd say it's used in the case of damage dealing triggered abilities formatted this way: "At player upkeep, if <insert condition that says "that player" somewhere>, then deal <this much> damage to them."

Honestly, if that's what it is, it seems like a strange corner case.
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Post by void_nothing » 4 years ago

Yup, "them" is there meaning "that player" because "that player" has already been said.
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

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Post by bravelion83 » 4 years ago

SecretInfiltrator wrote:
4 years ago
Rithaniel wrote:
4 years ago
Polish
(2/3) Quality — Taking a point off for using ~ in the card abilities. I know what you are referring to, and so would MSE, but the card is not named ~. It's like wearing a shirt without removing any of the tags. Everything else works, though.
Acknowledged. Can I have confirmation that this is the official position from here on out?
As the author of the guidelines, I confirm that this is indeed the official position, as it's always been in the MCC by the way, exactly for the reason that void_nothing already pointed out:
void_nothing wrote:
4 years ago
That is the official position. Cards should appear like they would in Gatherer. So placeholder tildes are not kosher and you'll get marked off for them.
This is another thing I forgot to put into the guidelines document, but it's already in my list of things to add and typos to fix as I eventually make an update.

Dragonlover wrote:
4 years ago
Are we allowed to comment on other people designs once they've been judged?
I'd personally wait until after the judging deadline, as judgments aren't technically final until then. And as I've written in the guidelines, always remember to be polite and keep a civil tone, especially when you're talking about other people's submissions.

Kypster wrote:
4 years ago
Kypster wrote:
4 years ago
Lakshmi, Unleashed Plague
(b) Legendary Creature - Vampire
Flying, Infect, Lifelink
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, Lakshmi, Unleashed Plague deals 1 damage to them.
1/1
I looked up this wording and found it on Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage Looking more carefully now, I see it's somewhat of an anomaly. Is there a reason that Davriel uses 'them' when most of the other cards use 'that player'?
I see nothing wrong with the "them" wording, it doesn't strike me as wrong, but it's just my intuition, I don't have any actual proof, and it's a question I've never asked myself in 14 years of playing Magic. Here too, the reason that void_nothing points out looks very plausible to me:
void_nothing wrote:
4 years ago
Yup, "them" is there meaning "that player" because "that player" has already been said.

As for my judgments, I'm almost finished, but real life got in the way so I don't have them ready yet. I should totally be able to finish tomorrow before the deadline though.
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Post by void_nothing » 4 years ago

My judgments are complete. As always, they're final.

I did not judge mellifluoresce's card out of competition yet; I'll do so tomorrow but can't tonight due to exhaustion.
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

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Post by bravelion83 » 4 years ago

void_nothing wrote:
4 years ago
I did not judge mellifluoresce's card out of competition yet; I'll do so tomorrow but can't tonight due to exhaustion.
No problem. I have Round 2 ready, I'm just waiting for her judgments to be in as well.
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Post by Sojourner Dusk » 4 years ago

bravelion83 wrote:
4 years ago
void_nothing wrote:
4 years ago
I did not judge mellifluoresce's card out of competition yet; I'll do so tomorrow but can't tonight due to exhaustion.
No problem. I have Round 2 ready, I'm just waiting for her judgments to be in as well.
Tradition!

It wouldn't be an MCC if the judging was completed by the deadline. Don't misconstrue. This is an observation, not a complaint. Cthulhu knows I've missed deadlines for MCCs I was hosting or judging on more than one occasion.

EDIT: Another day passes as we wait. I'm starting to understand why the individual formerly known at MTGS as "MirrorEntity" changed their handle. Their lack of punctuality reflects poorly on them. They should be punished.
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Post by Rithaniel » 4 years ago

So, we are currently 36 hours past the deadline. Should we consider going ahead and posting the next round, allowing all members of melliflouresce's bracket post cards until the judgments are done?

Or should one of us judges step up to judge her bracket? I can probably be available for that in about 12 or 18 hours.

(I'm just assuming she's been contacted already, if not, then that'd probably be the next step.)
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Post by bravelion83 » 4 years ago

Rithaniel wrote:
4 years ago
So, we are currently 36 hours past the deadline. Should we consider going ahead and posting the next round, allowing all members of melliflouresce's bracket post cards until the judgments are done?
Round 2 will be posted in a few hours anyway.
Or should one of us judges step up to judge her bracket?
That's exactly what I'm gonna do. I've waited 24 hours, as per the guidelines, but now as you notice we're well past that. I just need the contest to move on now.
I can probably be available for that in about 12 or 18 hours.
Thank you for the offer, but I want this to be over before 12 hours. I'm just going to do them myself right now and post Round 2 immediately afterwards. Unfortunately, it's not the first time that I find myself in a similar situation as host, and I've made speed runs before.
I'm just assuming she's been contacted already,
Of course. That's the first thing I did, two days ago by now. She told me she would have posted her judgment yesterday night. If you didn't see anything posted publicly, it was exactly because things were going on behind the scenes.

EDIT: I'm done. See round thread. Round 2 will be up in a few minutes. is up now.
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Post by slimytrout » 4 years ago

Just wanted to make sure that a card that transforms into a vehicle satisfies the main challenge -- obviously pushing the envelope a bit, but it seemed like it met the challenge as worded since it is an artifact with the subtype vehicle, at least on one side (and also it's just a fun design!).

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Post by barbecube » 4 years ago

"Could have used flavor text"

If you make a render of my round 1 card, you'll see that there is no room for flavor text.
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Post by bravelion83 » 4 years ago

slimytrout wrote:
4 years ago
Just wanted to make sure that a card that transforms into a vehicle satisfies the main challenge -- obviously pushing the envelope a bit, but it seemed like it met the challenge as worded since it is an artifact with the subtype vehicle, at least on one side (and also it's just a fun design!).
Let's say it's a bend but acceptable. The Main Challenge just asks: "is this a card with the subtype Vehicle?", and I can't say that a DFC with a Vehicle on the back side doesn't have the subtype. It's definitely not what I was thinking about when writing the challenge, but it meets the letter of the law, so it's technically allowable. Be aware that I'm not guaranteeing your judge (whoever it will be) will give you 2/2 in Main Challenge, they might say "it's a bend" and make a little deduction there. What I am saying is just that a DFC card with a non-Vehicle on the front side and a Vehicle on the back side technically passes the Main Challenge and can't be DQ'ed for not meeting it. Hope this helps.
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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 4 years ago

bravelion83 wrote:
4 years ago
Be aware that I'm not guaranteeing your judge (whoever it will be) will give you 2/2 in Main Challenge, they might say "it's a bend" and make a little deduction there.
The whole point of asking for for clarification is to get an official stance and remove uncertainty for both judges and players, right? This would have been the moment to make everyone's life easier IMO.

Maybe I'm wrong though. Food for thought anyway.

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Post by slimytrout » 4 years ago

Not a big deal (at least from my perspective) -- obviously I would have preferred a guaranteed 2/2, but I understand the desire not to take away autonomy from the judges. What I definitely wanted to do is make sure that I didn't get a full disqualification -- I'm willing to take a risk on losing a half point, but not on pulling a more, shall we say, exacting judge and getting immediately eliminated.

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Post by Sojourner Dusk » 4 years ago

And this is why I'm in no hurry to judge or host on Nexus anytime soon.
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Post by bravelion83 » 4 years ago

I'm trying to walk a thin line here, and slimytrout has understood exactly what I meant. As host, I say without uncertainty that the card does meet the letter of the Main Challenge, so it can't be DQ'ed, and this is 100% certain for everybody, host, judges, and players. As the creator of the challenges, I honestly didn't think about the Vehicle being on the back of a DFC, and I had to take a decision on the fly. As one of the judges, I want to leave to myself and all the other judges (as I don't know yet who will end up judging that card, it might be me or any other judge) the autonomy to decide the scores on their own, without any imposition from me as host. It's not as easy as it might look from the outside.

If you want to know my thoughts about subjectivity in judging, you can find them in the guidelines document. In short, I ackowledge that it exists and that it's inevitable because we judges are just different people, each with their own thoughs, opinions, and priorities. I wish that the judgments could be perfectly objective, but we're just human. We're not machines. But despite this, we should strive to achieve the maximum objectivity possible. We can't achieve perfection, because perfection isn't human, but we can and should do the best we can. Ok, this wasn't short. I'm sorry.
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Post by Superbajt » 4 years ago

Imagine I ask like this for each aspect of my card and the host responds "yeah, judges cannot reduce your points for that". Does that mean that I have guaranteed 25 points after that? I prefer to not live in a world like this, so bravelion's stance seems very reasonable for me.

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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 4 years ago

I see.
Superbajt wrote:
4 years ago
Imagine I ask like this for each aspect of my card and the host responds "yeah, judges cannot reduce your points for that". Does that mean that I have guaranteed 25 points after that? I prefer to not live in a world like this, so bravelion's stance seems very reasonable for me.
Any aspect that isn't about clarifying anything that is required would be soliciting outside help. It's also possible to just say "no comment" on issues that aren't related to a specific round requirement.

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Post by slimytrout » 4 years ago

I think that there's no "right answer" here, and it's just going to be based on the host's preference. On the one hand, the rubric does ask "Does the card fit the intent of the challenge?" so on some level the host is uniquely qualified to answer that question in the affirmative. But in this case he declined to do so and therefore left it up to the judges, which, without getting too much into originalism and complicated legal theory, is also a perfectly valid choice. As I alluded to earlier, I think it would be unfair to not answer the question of disqualification (or, at the very least, it wouldn't really be to anyone's benefit), but I don't think that either guaranteeing or not guaranteeing full points on the main challenge is an obviously incorrect response.

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Post by void_nothing » 4 years ago

mellifluoresce hasn't logged in for four days or posted for six days. Unfortunately I think the correct course of action is to just count her out of judging for the month and divide up her bracket among the other judges. Otherwise, bravelion, it seems likely you'll be substitute judging another full bracket again.
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Post by bravelion83 » 4 years ago

void_nothing wrote:
4 years ago
mellifluoresce hasn't logged in for four days or posted for six days. Unfortunately I think the correct course of action is to just count her out of judging for the month and divide up her bracket among the other judges. Otherwise, bravelion, it seems likely you'll be substitute judging another full bracket again.
I hadn't noticed her absence, so thank you. It wouldn't actually be a problem to me to judge three more cards, but I agree with you that might be the best thing to do. So I'll do it right now. EDIT: done.

@mellifluoresce: please, if we're wrong and you're actually available for judging the rest of the month let me know asap. Thank you.
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Blue = MTGSalvation Green = MTGNexus
MCC - Winner (9): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019, Jan Mar 2022, Apr 2023 || Host (30): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last on MTGS), Aug 2019 (first on MTGN) Oct 2019, Jan Jun 2020 Apr Oct 2021, Feb May Sep Dec 2022, Mar Jun Sep Dec 2023, Mar 2024 || Judge (58): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last on MTGS), every month from Aug 2019 (first on MTGN) to Feb 2020, May Jun 2020, Mar Apr Sep Oct 2021, Feb May Sep Dec 2022, Mar May Jun Sep Dec 2023, Jan Mar 2024
CCL - Winner (4): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last on MTGS), Jun 2021 (tied with slimytrout) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (3): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar), Feb Apr 2022 || Host (12): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016, Jun Sep Dec 2021, Mar Jun Sep Dec 2022, Mar Jun 2023

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