Oracle's Shift

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Post by Iso » 8 months ago

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The deck is a cute thought experiment. My first Legacy deck was Oops, All Spells!, and I immediately took a liking to Thassa's Oracle. I have a casual version of this that doesn't use the high-end cards in the deck, but instead utilizes Mana Severance, Selective Memory, and Boomerang. Unsure if Leveler belongs in the "real" version of this, or if I should just run 2 each of Severance and Selective. I don't actually have a proper means of testing this as I sold basically all of my Legacy collection recently, but I'm curious as to what people's thoughts are on something like this. What could change? What could make the deck better? Do we want Fetches? And so forth.

Maybe drop Levelers and Preordains for a playset of Severance and Selective?
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Post by Ulka » 8 months ago

I feel like I'd want some fetch lands here. Between brainstorm and the fact you run 12 basics I'd look at adding 4 fetches.

Further I think removing a single leveler would be a good idea. I feel like you want narset in this deck same with echo of eons or atleast for the sideboard
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Post by Iso » 8 months ago

Thanks for the input!

What would you take out for Echo?

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Post by Ulka » 8 months ago

Mabe 1 jace and 1 labman.

The idea with echos is it pairs with narset to help you strip your opponents hand away and thier ability to stop you from comboing off.

Also I'd consider 1 or 2 copies of force of negation for the sideboard as I feel like you may want 6 copies of force in certain matchups.
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Post by Iso » 8 months ago

4 Island → 4 Flooded Strand
1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries → 1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Laboratory Maniac → 1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Leveler → 1 Narset, Parter of Veils
2 Preordain → 2 Echo of Eons

Something like that?

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Post by Iso » 8 months ago

Thought Lash was suggested to me instead of Leveler. I think 3 Leveler → 3 Thought Lash is a good call, here.

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Post by Iso » 7 months ago

I made a lot of changes to make the deck more resilient over time and have more options.

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Post by Iso » 1 month ago

Updates:

2x Echo of Eons → 2x Dig Through Time
2x Island → 2x Prismatic Vista
1x Omen of the Sea → 1x Jace, Wielder of Mysteries

The Echoes never worked, ever. There was no way to discard them and I never had enough mana to hardcast them. Dig Through Time seems like a good choice because of Delve and how many cantrips I regularly pitch to the graveyard, so I also added some more fetches. Omen was supposed to work as a mana sink, but I found that when I was getting Thought Lash, I really wanted more win cons available, so I made that swap. I opted for Jace instead of another Lab Man, because Jace can enable himself to win once you clear your deck out, and you can also snag Jace with Narset's ability.

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Post by The Fluff » 3 weeks ago

since even the casual version of this deck can beat High Tide. That alone makes it promising.

I've been out of legacy for awhile. Can I know the win con of this deck? And how it get's there. Would be able to give some suggestions once I know.
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Post by Iso » 3 weeks ago

The Fluff wrote:
3 weeks ago
since even the casual version of this deck can beat High Tide. That alone makes it promising.

I've been out of legacy for awhile. Can I know the win con of this deck? And how it get's there. Would be able to give some suggestions once I know.
So, the primary win condition of the deck is as the name implies: Paradigm Shift → Thassa's Oracle. Nearly deck yourself out and then drop the Oracle to get the win. Alternatively, you can win with Lab Man or Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, and Thought Lash is another card that you can easily deck yourself out with. In the meantime, there are cantrips for digging, Intuition for tutoring, and Dig Through Time for desperation, haha. Force of Will is in there, because, let's face it: It's a blue deck in Legacy. Stops other combo decks from going off faster than you can! I'm running Crystal Vein instead of City of Traitors and it seems to be working just fine in that slot. Chrome Mox is just there for additional fast mana.

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Post by Iso » 3 weeks ago

Aaand I've just been informed that Dig Through Time is banned in Legacy. Might go full combo and swap that for Lotus Petals, and drop down to 2 Narsets to accommodate a playset.

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Post by Iso » 3 weeks ago

I have also turned the fetch ratio into 3/3 rather than 4/2.

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Post by The Fluff » 3 weeks ago

sorry for late reply. Interesting. I see now... the oracle itself is a win con. Back up win cons in Jace and Lab man provide redundancy. :)

not really much to suggest, as you have things in order already.

can I know the usual goldfish turn of this strategy?
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Post by The Fluff » 2 weeks ago

how about splashing a little bit of white duals for Teferi, Time Raveler, for additional combo protection?
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Post by Iso » 2 weeks ago

The Fluff wrote:
3 weeks ago
sorry for late reply. Interesting. I see now... the oracle itself is a win con. Back up win cons in Jace and Lab man provide redundancy. :)

not really much to suggest, as you have things in order already.

can I know the usual goldfish turn of this strategy?
Uhh, cantrip a couple of times, maybe drop an early Oracle to fix my draws or just put out a body to block with, Intuition for Paradigm Shift, turn my deck upside down, drop a win con and/or cantrip (depending on which win con). Alternatively, instead of Intuition for Paradigm Shift, Thought Lash, then self-mill until I'm ~out of cards and drop a win con. It's usually a fairly consistent win by T4.
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how about splashing a little bit of white duals for Teferi, Time Raveler, for additional combo protection?
Not interested in shelling out for duals, and I want the deck to be mono-colored - that said, T3feri has been recommended to me by others! Good suggestion.

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Post by The Fluff » 2 weeks ago

turn 4 feels like an acceptable speed. Does this deck have god draws that combo faster than turn 4? I'm simply curious.

talking about speed of combo deck, it has a legacy "feel" to it. I miss this kind of talk. It has been years ago.
____________

on duals, not really the original duals.. perhaps hallowed fountain could be a reasonable substitute. Or is the 2 damage too much of a handicap in legacy? With the artifacts + maybe adding flooded strands, we could have enough w sources to consistently cast tef 3 if he is on hand.

the drawback of having a splash color is of course, wasteland and moon effects become more serious.
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Post by Legend » 2 weeks ago

Sooooooooo... Paradigm Shift is worth $23. now... I remember the days when they were worth -$2.25 along with Lion's-Eye Diamond, back when a pack cost $2.25.
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Post by The Fluff » 2 weeks ago

@Legend

being able to empty the library in one shot feels like an effect not many cards can do. So we should expect this card to come at a price as well. I mean $$,
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Post by Iso » 1 week ago

The Fluff wrote:
2 weeks ago
turn 4 feels like an acceptable speed. Does this deck have god draws that combo faster than turn 4? I'm simply curious.

talking about speed of combo deck, it has a legacy "feel" to it. I miss this kind of talk. It has been years ago.
____________

on duals, not really the original duals.. perhaps hallowed fountain could be a reasonable substitute. Or is the 2 damage too much of a handicap in legacy? With the artifacts + maybe adding flooded strands, we could have enough w sources to consistently cast tef 3 if he is on hand.

the drawback of having a splash color is of course, wasteland and moon effects become more serious.
Right, I just don't have much of an interest in something multi-colored. And yes, it can win as soon as T1. :)
Legend wrote:
2 weeks ago
Sooooooooo... Paradigm Shift is worth $23. now... I remember the days when they were worth -$2.25 along with Lion's-Eye Diamond, back when a pack cost $2.25.
Yeah, Paradigm Shift spiked shortly after Oracle was spoiled. Fortunately, I picked up my playset right before the spike. :halo:
The Fluff wrote:
2 weeks ago
@Legend

being able to empty the library in one shot feels like an effect not many cards can do. So we should expect this card to come at a price as well. I mean $$,
Right, true enough.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 week ago

I see... congrats on getting paradigm at a good price.

... and just one more suggestion. If there would come a time, that a play set of force of will is not enough protection. Perhaps a single force of negation could be added to the main? It is used in modern, but not sure if the card is usable in legacy.
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Post by The Fluff » 1 day ago

hmph.. all this oracle combo talk hyped me up. Would have been better if paradigm shift is legal in modern, so I could build a deck for it.

Or maybe it's too strong for modern? But modern does not have Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, Ancient Tomb, and City of Traitors.. so it would be slower there.
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