[Placeholder] Primer - UR Delver

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Diz
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Post by Diz » 4 years ago

This is the placeholder thread for the Legacy UR Delver Primer on MTG Nexus. If you would like to take over the primer for this particular deck, please message a Legacy staff member.

Blue-Red Delver is the current dominant Delver of Secrets deck in the Legacy format. It first rose to prominence in the Treasure Cruise metagame, but then fell into tier two after Cruise got banned. The recent printing of Dreadhorde Arcanist finally pushed the deck back into the spotlight. Blue-Red Delver uses an offensive core of Delver of Secrets, True-Name Nemesis, Young Pyromancer, and occasionally Monastery Swiftspear, with Dreadhorde Arcanist functioning as a brutal card advantage engine, spitting out cantrips and Lightning Bolts every attack step. With a full array of 10-12 cantrips, including Preordain in addition to Ponder and Brainstorm, 5-6 bolts, including Chain Lightning on top of Lightning Bolt, and a bevy of countermagic including Daze, Spell Pierce, and Force of Will, Blue-Red Delver is the go-to tempo deck.

Last edited by Diz 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by motleyslayer » 2 years ago

so I decided to at least try UR delver in Legacy, coming over from Sneak and Show (Big jump I now).

I just had a question in regards to how the mirrors should play out? Figured learning the mirrors is pretty important

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

went 2-3 at a small legacy 1k last weekend. Not sure if I played well or if its a lack of experience playing legacy.

here's my report

round 1 I quickly lose to 8cast 0-2. Game 1 he got t1 chalice on the play, which I didn't have the force for. I tried to just dump cantrips into the gy to go for quick murktide, but couldn't get there. Game 2 I was prepared for thopter beatdown but lost to saga tokens. There was a line I took where I probably got greedy, should have bolted a token after he made it end of my turn, but I waited and he could save them both.

round 2 I 2-0 some simic deck that seemed like a modern deck ported to legacy but still missing legacy parts. It was based around trying to make a lot of mana off Freed from the Real with a few engines for it. Game 1 I kept him on 1 or 2 land, with no creature source of mana. Game 2 he got me to 2 but I won with double murk

round 3 I lose to UW control, he was able to overwhelm me with planswalkers both games.

Round 4 I run over Jeskai control. Both games went pretty similar, I was able to wasteland him a few times and countered any copies of Expressive Iteration to keep him off lands

round 5 I lose to death and taxes. Game 1 I blanked and forgot Flickerwisp could flicker my stuff. h flickers my murk but I decided to attack anyways next turn, probably mistake. Game 2 kaaldra and thalia were too much

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

has anyone tried grim lavamancer in the sideboard? seems okay at killing opposing delvers and against d and t

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Post by wildfire393 » 1 year ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
has anyone tried grim lavamancer in the sideboard? seems okay at killing opposing delvers and against d and t
Lavamancer used to be pretty solid, but these days it's fairly mediocre.

Delver right now is the worst creature in the Delver deck, and Lavamancer does nothing against DRC with Delirium or Murktide Regent. And to even kill a Delver, you need to stick the Lavamancer and have it not get removed before you can untap with it. And then to get more value out of it than killing a single Delver, they'd basically have to play another Delver into it. You're almost always better off running some other removal spell like Red Elemental Blast in that slot.

Against D&T you face much the same problem of getting removed before it can do its thing. D&T runs a higher density of spot removal than they ever did before, with cards like Solitude and Skyclave Apparition as 4-ofs in basically every list these days.

Add that to the fact that there's tension between using your graveyard for Lavamancer procs and needing it for DRC's Delirium and Murktide's Delve and it seems particularly questionable.

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

thanks for the response, Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast are more versatile answers for sure

on the topic of d and t, can I get some advice for that matchup? I struggle understanding how to approach it

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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

Let me also ask, in a related vein: If I'm playing combo decks (one mono-R, one mono-U), what should I be siding in against Delver?

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Post by wildfire393 » 1 year ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
thanks for the response, Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast are more versatile answers for sure

on the topic of d and t, can I get some advice for that matchup? I struggle understanding how to approach it
Generally you want to be siding out some amount of countermagic (which they can play around with Vial and Caverns, and two-for-oneing yourself with Forces is a good way to lose a longer matchup) and siding in answers of some sort. Things like End the Festivities, Rough // Tumble, Abrade, Pithing Needle, Null Rod, Izzet Staticaster, Meltdown, Shattering Spree, etc are all cards in recent UR Delver sideboards that I'd consider bringing in. You don't need a TON of cards as Ponder/Brainstorm/Expressive Iteration means you're seeing huge chunks of your deck every game, so a few strong cards can tilt the matchup in your favor.
Diz wrote:
1 year ago
Let me also ask, in a related vein: If I'm playing combo decks (one mono-R, one mono-U), what should I be siding in against Delver?
Combo decks are always a tough one to run into Delver. They're generally able to counter your important cards, and if you try to be pro-active and stop them from doing that, they can often just counter those cards too. There's very few things you can run that are themselves not vulnerable to countermagic and also protect your combo. If you're in black, cheap/free discard like Cabal Therapy, Duress, Thoughtseize, Unmask, or Grief can force your opponent to have to counter or strip a piece of countermagic if they don't, and getting a peek at their hand can give you information to help play around what they do have (i.e. hold off one more turn to play around the Daze you saw). Veil of Summer and Silence effects can serve a similar purpose. Cast them at the start of your turn and you force them to commit countermagic right then. If they've got the countermagic, you can hold your combo until next turn with all your mana again (and potentially another Veil), if they don't, just jam your combo on through. Chalice of the Void is always fairly strong against them as they run a ton of one mana cards, so if your combo doesn't rely on those that's a fine card to try to stick, especially if you've got Sol Lands, Chrome Mox, or Lotus Petals to jam it out turn one. Similarly, cards like Trinisphere or Sphere of Resistance can make their lives really hard as their curves are especially low; if you're playing a heavily land-based combo like Lands or Dark Depths, these may work here too. Defense Grid is another good one. Cards like Abrupt Decay or Boseiju, Who Endures can give you uncounterable answers to problematic permanents they might board in, but Delver doesn't often %$#% around with those, and just trying to trade for a Delver or DRC isn't really where you want to be as a proactive combo deck.

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

won a free legacy event yesterday, going 4-0

r1 2-0 a temur pile. G1 he was only really able to cast a Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes after a mull to 5, which I countered. G2 he had a Greater Gargadon on suspend, when he had 2 counters left on he he sacrificed his 2 lands without floating mana, which I daze

r2 I 2-0 d and t. Both games I was able to stick early threats and tempo him out

r3 I 2-1 reanimator. he goes off g1, g2 he doesn't see any ways to cheat in a creature. G3 my answers lined up well and I had early threats. He also had to choose between making me discard a Brazen Borrower // Petty Theft or a Murktide Regent , he took the regent because it was a bigger clock.

r4 I 2-1 d and t. G1 I couldn't stabilize. G2 I got him when I attacked with an 8/8 murktide into his yorion with a Sword of Fire and Ice on it. H e snap blocks and I petty theft the sword back to his hand, killing hic blocker. I then get him with a Price of Progress . G3 was back and forth but I was able to get through enough damage

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

congrats on getting 4-0.

it's been awhile since I've read a Legacy tourney report. How many in attendance?

the way you rid of the Yorion with Sofai made me smile. That's a neat trick you did there.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

15 players there, guess I forgot to include that. Even the d and t players I beat said he didn't expect me to bounce his sword. I actually had to think about the play for a second, which I'm glad I recognized an out to that

Might end up going to a legacy event at the same store tomorrow

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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

It's occurred to me that the OP still reflected a list containing Dreadhorde Arcanist. I have since changed this to Dragon's Rage Channeler. Anyone who wants to take over this thread and own the Primer (and subsequently update the original description of the deck), feel free to message a Legacy mod in order to be able to do so - or if you just want to message me an updated description, I can edit it in.

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

went 3-1 at a legacy event last weekend.

R1 2-0'd d and t. Game 1 they mulled to 5 but had lot of answers. Won because they couldn't stick a threat. Ran over them g2.

R2 2-0'd the mirror. Game 1 I baited him into a counter war over his t1 delver, then he was never able to recover cars and I saw more card draw. G2 I put early pressure on but he was able to stabilize at 2, with 2 murks in play. I was able to poder for the bolt.

R3. I 2-1 some kind of Mystic Forge affinity deck. Game 1 I was able to keep him off much of anything. G2 I don't know what the correct play was because I didn't have much going on and I knew he had a Myr Enforcer in hand, so I chose to take my chances and let a forge resolve but was punished. G3 he got mana screwed and I just played aggro.

R4. I lose to the more traditional versions of lands. G1 and 3, he just steam rolled me. G2 I -managed t tempo him out. I also don't really understand this matchup if anyone can help

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

Now that Expressive Iteration is banned do we go back to playing Preordain or something else?

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Post by Diz » 1 year ago


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