MTGNexus

Hey, if anyone else wants to participate in the testing, let me know. Gkourou and I started playing matches, but we could use more people to get more data.

I can take up UWx control, Urza variants and UWx Stoneforge decks if you want.

gkourou wrote: ↑

4 years ago

That sounds great! Especially the Urza variants are super important! Let's wait for BloodyRabbit and Wraithpk to see how they respond to this.

Tzoulis , what's your timezone?

Same as yours (iirc) Greece, UTC+2

[mention]Tzoulis[/mention] FYI, the way we're doing it is we're taking turns playing both sides of the matchups to account for any possible differences in the skills of the pilots in the testing. We also want to make sure we're noting possible biases with the testers experience with decks. For instance, we just played 3 matches today, but we both felt the Burn vs. Twin matchup was still close to even, maybe slightly Twin favored now, but Gkourou and I are both former Twin players, and not Burn players (although I play Red decks in Standard at times), so we have to acknowledge that the matchup is probably going to feel more towards Twin to us than it actually is, because we're both more skilled on Twin. We'll need to get more matches in to get a bigger data sample either way, but it's something to keep in mind.

Also, if you want to take an Urza deck and conceptualize how it might be slightly different if Twin existed, that would be really helpful. We don't want to warp current decklists, we're just trying to imagine if Twin was just a healthy part of the meta, like maybe 5%, how decks might make small changes by a couple cards to account for that, if needed. Like with Burn, we ended up not making many changes at all, we just added a Rending Volley to the side of a typical Burn list.

I had a 7-8 days window two weeks ago, unfortunately right now I don't have the time.

Honestly not surprised at all. :/ Will await more data. I suggest testing the Humans, Infect, and Amulet matchups too, as they seem relevant and play less disruption.

Yeah, the Burn matches were 3-3, but upon further contemplation I think it would have been slightly in Burn's favor with a larger sample. If you remember, I lost two games on Burn because I flooded out to a ridiculous degree, and I lost two other games because you had your 1-of Spellskite on turn 2. Felt like the variance went in Twin's favor for those matches.

So, so far it looks to be exactly what many of us have predicted. Twin is simply outclassed buy many of the decks, threats, and answers available in modern today. It's definitely not overpowering, and honestly not even up to par with current forces. It's continued ban remains a stain on the B&R list, as well as a constant reminder of WOTC's inability to understand and evaluate decks in various formats, especially eternal ones.

I apologize if this is already covered, but where did the testing take place? I'd love to see the gameplay.

TarmoTwin wants Serum Visions instead of Opt because of "sorcery" for Goyf.

I still think Jeskai would be the way (T3feri + Path).

gkourou wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Sorry for the late answer. It was at a kitchen table. I would love if we could stream it, but unfortunately we did not.
We tested vs Wraithpk some games on xmage.

I am currently doing some games with Twin /w Veil of summer vs Jund & mainly GDS, and my win rate has gone up. I am starting to believe the deck can not co-exist with Veil of Summer. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to test more, just here to tell you Twin + Veil is probably a wrong idea.

My list ft. 2 Breeding Pool and 3 Veil of summer in the sideboard.

Since Veil didn't get banned during the latest B&R, it's probably going to be a legal card for quite some time. Under those circumstances, I should say that I am changing my position into saying that Splinter Twin would be instantly rebanned, with Veil of Summer in the format. They should not unban it.

This says WAY more about the obscenity of Veil of Summer than it does about Twin. If Twin, which is otherwise fine without Veil, was unbanned and unreasonable with Veil, then Veil should be banned, not Twin.