[ELD] Throne of Eldraine Modern Discussion

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 month ago

Preview season has begun! I feel like we just finished a preview season too. Here's the preview list on MTGN:
previews/throne-of-eldraine/

Everyone's been mostly talking about Food tokens (mechanic revealed on Golden Goose) and the new planeswalker, Oko, Thief of Crowns. All 3 CMC planeswalkers deserve extra attention in Modern, and Oko immediately upticking to 6 loyalty is great. I like Oko's ability to answer nonsense like Ensnaring Bridge or seriously problematic combo creatures, and I like him costing 3 mana and being played on T2 off Hierarch. I don't think the 3/3 conversion is necessarily as stabilizing as many think, which is why stuff like Pongify never cuts it in Modern. 3/3s can still be formidable clocks in already aggressive decks, but at least the Food gaining 3 life can offset that. Totally neutering opposing creatures is great too in lots of matchups. Finally, this card is going to put a beating on traditional aggressive decks in Standard (maybe Modern) if unanswered, gaining chunks of life to offset Bolt effects and soaking up 6 damage on the first turn alone.

It's important to note not all 3 CMC PWs are Modern playable by any means. There are 30 of these cards legal in Modern and maybe 10 of them see either regular or fringe play. CMC 3 alone isn't going to cut it, but the incremental value generation might get there. Also, upticking to deal with awful artifacts and creatures (soooo many decks have these) is sweet.

Lastly, the new adventure cards look interesting. Not clear how they mechanically work yet (straight split cards? Some kind of built-in fuse function? more like forecast?), but they could prove powerful depending on how they function. Overall, I'm excited for the set which, if recent sets are any indication, is likely to bring a bunch of new Modern playables our way.
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Post by Simto » 1 month ago

I like Oko, especially his +1. Imagine doing that against a Tron player who just slammed a Wurmcoil or something, turning it into a 3/3 elk instead is sick! Even Ulamog can be turned into a 3/3 (if you have can actually cast Oko after having Ula cast against you hehe) I'm really hype for trying the card out.

The other cards that have been spoiled so far give me a sense that the set is going to feel very underpowered compared to MH1 and War of the Spark.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 month ago

Plenty of new faeries. Although none seems to be modern competitive..

Witching Well and Witch's Cottage both look interesting.
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Post by izzetmage » 1 month ago

That color combination on Oko though :\

Beast Within is a SBable card, but the decks that play it are prepared for the 3/3 - Living End wipes it with its namesake and Titanshift can either Anger it, wall it with Obstinate Baloth, or shoot it with a Valakut trigger. It's also worth pointing out that Beast Within gets rid of Leyline of the Void/Rest in Peace for LE and lands when the matchup calls for it, whereas Oko is limited to artifacts and creatures. Overall, while Oko's Beast Within is repeatable and he has other abilities, I don't think it's enough to make up for the difference.

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Post by idSurge » 1 month ago

The new UR Walker is really high loyalty, I hope it doesnt preorder spike.
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Post by robertleva » 1 month ago

There was a sorcery speed Brainstorm spoiled, but the casting cost was hidden. Anyone have more info on that? If it was 1cc if would instantly replace Serum Visions in Modern. At 1B, it might see play...not sure. Thoughts?
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Post by nawillih » 1 month ago

robertleva wrote:
1 month ago
There was a sorcery speed Brainstorm spoiled, but the casting cost was hidden. Anyone have more info on that? If it was 1cc if would instantly replace Serum Visions in Modern. At 1B, it might see play...not sure. Thoughts?
I'm pretty sure that was fake, it was up on r/mtcj, which is an absurd humour forum loosely based on mtg...

As for other things, assuming The Royal Scions is real, I think it's pretty good. Ticks up to 6 loyalty straight away, and has relevant effects that URx decks want - looting as well as aggressive pump for creatures.
I think Oko is good. Turning early plays like mana dorks or Astrolabes into relevant beaters seems pretty good, and if there are relevant uses for Food tokens that's gravy (pun fully intended). The swap ability is surely relevant too...

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Post by robertleva » 1 month ago

Oko is good, will probably see some play. Not sure about the Royal Scions, but I love the 6 loyalty. It's going to take a lot of resources to get rid of it...
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Post by The Fluff » 1 month ago

the ur walker looks strong. Can dig for answers + high loyalty.

food is still underwhelming. nice art though..
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Post by tronix » 1 month ago

idSurge wrote:
1 month ago
The new UR Walker is really high loyalty, I hope it doesnt preorder spike.
3 cmc walker in UR with high loyalty and somewhat attractive abilities...yeah im not holding much hope itll go under the radar
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Post by idSurge » 1 month ago

Shh! We can hope!

lol
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 month ago

I wish I could be more excited about this card. :grin: :love: :halo: :dizzy: :explode: :woozy: :( :sweat:
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Post by nawillih » 1 month ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 month ago
I wish I could be more excited about this card. :grin: :love: :halo: :dizzy: :explode: :woozy: :( :sweat:

corridormonitor.jpg
If Twin were to be unbanned, would Monitor even be relevant? I know it only costs 2, but I thought Deceiver Exarch was excellent bc it had Flash, specifically, so you could set up a combo EOT without giving your opponent information. Also, saving a mana here seems irrelevant when Twin itself costs 4, so it doesn't speed anything up, right?

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Post by The Fluff » 1 month ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 month ago
I wish I could be more excited about this card. :grin: :love: :halo: :dizzy: :explode: :woozy: :( :sweat:
corridormonitor.jpg
that thing looks like it came from mirrodin. :P

extra combo piece if ever twin is unbanned?
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Post by idSurge » 1 month ago

Nah, for the reasons nawillih mentioned, the Flash threats are better imo.
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Post by robertleva » 1 month ago

So far the power level of this set seem super low. Feels like Theros-level weak.
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Post by The Fluff » 1 month ago

feels like we will be going back to the norm where only 5 or 6 cards from a new set goes to Modern.

I could be wrong of course, there's still so many cards left to be revealed.
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Post by Bearscape » 1 month ago

Honestly after WAR, MH1 and the Looting ban I'd be pretty fine with ELD quietly passing by without having much Modern influence :P

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Post by The Fluff » 1 month ago

@Bearscape

yeah, those things you mentioned + the unbanning of SFM. We have plenty of stuff already.

well, if nothing ends up useful here. It would be a good respite for my poor wallet. :P
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Post by AvalonAurora » 1 month ago

I'm hoping for a blue 1 drop, or maybe relatively neutral land, that isn't an artifact, but generates a food token, which plays well with a theoretical Shape Anew deck. Much like I wished for when we had clues spoiled, or when we had treasures spoiled. I don't care if it's janky, just as long as it's blue or colorless, not an artifact but generating an artifact token, and is one or less mana investment, using a white clue generator just doesn't feel right.

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Post by Bearscape » 1 month ago

If there's one thing on my wishlist, it's that I've really been looking for a good 1 mana faerie. Adventure is also an interesting mechanic so it'd be a shame if we only get low-powered cards out of it out of fear of pushing the inherent 2 for 1 mechanic of it. If we get a good 1 mana faerie and one or two interesting Adventure cards, I'll consider the set a success.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 month ago

don't have much of a wishlist. For serious play, maybe something like another iteration of torpor orb? because sfm decks are plentiful right now. For fun play, I'm still hoping for the 2 cmc cat lord. :)
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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 month ago

Re: power level
The overall track record at new card evaluation in Modern is horrendous. Remember when MH1 was called Commander Horizons? That aged about as well as the Forsythe Tweet about SFM earlier this year. Players of all levels are absolutely terrible at new card evaluation in Modern, with tons of false negatives, false positives, and outright misses. That's not an indictment of those players, many of which are quite good and sometimes get it right. It just emphasizes how hard it is to evaluate new cards in giant environments; it's hard enough in Standard! Given that, I encourage everyone to be extremely cautious saying anything about ELD's power level or playability unless you have a really good system you're evaluating from. Same goes for individual card evaluations, especially for PWs.

Re: ELD card evaluation
ELD is the first set I can remember where we actually get to play some of the new cards in real games against real people. How? MTGA Brawl decks. Obviously, the power level in that hyper-isolated format is different from Modern, and not all ELD cards are available in MTGA. But it has been amazing to play with the cards that we do have because it lets you see how these cards are actually going to play out in some form of a real game. Some random takes from that experience:

-Adventure cards are awesome. I'm not sure if any of the current ones are Modern playable, but 2-for-1s over multiple turns are great.
-Chulane, Teller of Tales is super broken but probably too expensive for Modern. He's Bolt-proof and Push-proof, and quasi protects himself if you can untap with him. There's probably some loop with him beyond the obvious value engine, but I suspect it's too slow for Modern.
-Banish into Fable is extremely swingy and versatile. I don't know if you can realistically turn on all three copies in Modern, but the card is sweet. I like the idea of EOT bouncing 3 problematic cards and swinging for 6 to take out a PW. 6 is normally way too expensive for Modern but that cost bar drops with instant-speed effects.
-Food is fun. If you can get lots of synergies going with them, either because they sacrifice, because they are artifacts, and/or because they gain life, they give sweet value.

Fun MTGA experiences aside, nothing is really jumping at me right now. In general, Modern-playable cards need to meet some of the following criteria, and none of the cards are quite there:

1. Cost reduction/free mechanics
2. ETB effects or virtual ETB effects (like haste or PWs)
3. Instants/flash
4. CMC 0-3
5. Creates 2-for-1s or better

There are some exceptions to these "rules" and there are plenty of Modern playables which don't necessarily meet these benchmarks, especially when we get into synergies between cards. But whenever I do a first pass of a new set, I'd start with these measures.
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Post by AvalonAurora » 1 month ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 month ago
don't have much of a wishlist. For serious play, maybe something like another iteration of torpor orb? because sfm decks are plentiful right now. For fun play, I'm still hoping for the 2 cmc cat lord. :)
Maybe something playing on the Puss in Boots theme? Or some kind of witch's familiar that leads and commands over normal cats? Or some kind of lord of the cait sith who is a cat and fairy subtype pair? Or some kind of heraldic lion beast or lion forest 'god'-ish forest king type being? Those seem like possible appropriate flavors for such a set to get a cat lord.

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Post by izzetmage » 1 month ago

We have Beast Whisperer as the Glimpse of Nature on a body. It used to be played in Elves as an experiment, but they moved back to the traditional Lead the Stampede/Chord of Calling. One thing Chulane does that BW doesn't is have an inbuilt mana engine - with Elves you need Heritage Druid so your newly casted Elves can tap for mana, whereas Chulane lets you put a land onto the battlefield to pay for the creatures instead. However Chulane only draws you one card at a time, so eventually you're going to run out of either creatures to cast or lands to put in. Elves, on the other hand, is mana positive once Nettle Sentinel enters the equation.

The UR walker hasn't been confirmed, but it doesn't seem like a great card anyway. There are plenty of loot/fix-your-draw every turn permanents (Monastery Siege, Mirrodin Besieged, Thassa, God of the Sea, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, the card advantage powerhouse known as Search for Azcanta). Common to all of these is 1) only the 2-mana ones have seen widespread play and 2) the looting/draw fixing is secondary to the other effects. So, when not fixing your draws, Mirrodin Besieged is pooping out 1/1s, Thassa is an indestructible 5/5, Search for Azcanta is a repeatable Impulse and so on. The Royal Scions cast Thunder Strike with trample every turn. That's not exciting, especially when UR decks are usually creature-light.

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