[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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motleyslayer
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Post by motleyslayer » 2 years ago

Tzoulis wrote:
2 years ago
You guys will ban anything that either annoys you or you don't like.

They'll be idiots if they ban anything on Tuesday. I can see one or two unbans. They probably gonna ban something in Legacy, Alchemy/Historic and maybe Standard.
honestly I'd be the happiest with no bans in modern.

Now that you bring alchemy up, pretty sure they said they'd be looking at the health of alchemy as a format after the arena open last weekend, my buddy also said he thinks it'll just be alchemy

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 2 years ago

motleyslayer wrote:
2 years ago
honestly I'd be the happiest with no bans in modern.

Now that you bring alchemy up, pretty sure they said they'd be looking at the health of alchemy as a format after the arena open last weekend, my buddy also said he thinks it'll just be alchemy
This is exactly what I think, just alchemy and possibly something banned in Legacy (not sure if Ragavan, DRC, or Daze is the problem since I stopped playing it about 2 yrs. ago).

Modern players may get worked up for no reason, but then WotC has always kept us on a short leash and often been unpredictable (in my opinion, which I've seen refuted by many here before).
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Simto
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Post by Simto » 2 years ago

Shout with me lads "UNBAN LATTICE! UNBAN LATTICE!" :)

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Tzoulis
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Post by Tzoulis » 2 years ago

Simto wrote:
2 years ago
Shout with me lads "UNBAN LATTICE! UNBAN LATTICE!"
Unban Opal!

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Simto
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Post by Simto » 2 years ago

Tzoulis wrote:
2 years ago
Simto wrote:
2 years ago
Shout with me lads "UNBAN LATTICE! UNBAN LATTICE!"
Unban Opal!
I'll shout that with you my man :)

metalmusic_4
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Post by metalmusic_4 » 2 years ago

Ok, I can go with lattice. A one of side board card that can come down a turn after karn the great creator. It's powerful but telegraphed pretty clearly.

What is your reasoning?

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EonAon
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Post by EonAon » 2 years ago

Tzoulis wrote:
2 years ago
You guys will ban anything that either annoys you or you don't like.

They'll be idiots if they ban anything on Tuesday. I can see one or two unbans. They probably gonna ban something in Legacy, Alchemy/Historic and maybe Standard.
Considering 40% of the top ten decks on goldfish have Lurrus as an engine for decks that need specific card if it gets removed or to recover from card effects and combat means that the meta has a lot of usage and removing one card might shake up the meta enough for other decks to flourish. Add to that fact that it starts the game outside your hand but is always readily available post turn three. Nobody likes playing in a solved format and I don't think were there yet, but it might be close depending on the metrics they use.

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Ulka
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

I'm here hoping that they just ban Companion from tournament play as companion has been impacting every format quite heavily and in modern and legacy it feels like to the determent of the format. but then again i have only played a handful of events since MH2 shook the format up so everything I say should be take with a healthy amount of salt.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
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Post by Shmanka » 2 years ago

My prediction for tomorrow

Ban Lurrus of the Dream-Den/All Companions cannot be played as Companions in Competitive formats anymore, Ban Sigarda's Aid

Potential Unbans - Punishing Fire, Original Artifact Lands (If they choose to ban Urza's Saga)

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motleyslayer
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Post by motleyslayer » 2 years ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
2 years ago
motleyslayer wrote:
2 years ago
honestly I'd be the happiest with no bans in modern.

Now that you bring alchemy up, pretty sure they said they'd be looking at the health of alchemy as a format after the arena open last weekend, my buddy also said he thinks it'll just be alchemy
This is exactly what I think, just alchemy and possibly something banned in Legacy (not sure if Ragavan, DRC, or Daze is the problem since I stopped playing it about 2 yrs. ago).

Modern players may get worked up for no reason, but then WotC has always kept us on a short leash and often been unpredictable (in my opinion, which I've seen refuted by many here before).
I've followed legacy a fair bit still and I think either monkey or daze has to go. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw no modern bans tomorrow but maybe banning using a companion would be interesting

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Post by metalmusic_4 » 2 years ago

Prediction: ban lurrus and unban something else, there are several options.

For the record lurrus doesn't bother me if it stays legal but certainly lots of people are having issues with it. I'd rather they ban the damn hammer than anything else in that deck.

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EonAon
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Post by EonAon » 2 years ago

metalmusic_4 wrote:
2 years ago
Prediction: ban lurrus and unban something else, there are several options.

For the record lurrus doesn't bother me if it stays legal but certainly lots of people are having issues with it. I'd rather they ban the damn hammer than anything else in that deck.
Eh without lurrus hammer becomes less consistent since they cant just bring back hammer once its removed.

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Tzoulis
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Post by Tzoulis » 2 years ago

EonAon wrote:
2 years ago
Considering 40% of the top ten decks on goldfish have Lurrus as an engine for decks that need specific card if it gets removed or to recover from card effects and combat means that the meta has a lot of usage and removing one card might shake up the meta enough for other decks to flourish. Add to that fact that it starts the game outside your hand but is always readily available post turn three. Nobody likes playing in a solved format and I don't think were there yet, but it might be close depending on the metrics they use.
One card being in 40% of decks does not equal ban worthy. Plus, most (all?) Lurrus decks don't warp themselves to play her, they just can because "eternal" formats tend to lower their average CMC with time.

Also, how are we closing to a solved format? Are you even looking at the challenges - and to lesser extent, the league dumps - ? It's a free for all out there, even in the heavily inbred meta that is MTGO.
EonAon wrote:
2 years ago
Eh without lurrus hammer becomes less consistent since they cant just bring back hammer once its removed.
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As said above, Hammer just plays Lurrus. She doesn't provide any consistency, just mediocre (for Hammer) staying power - same with Burn. Hammer doesn't need her, and arguably in a hostile meta - which we are at the moment - the Swords + Nettlecyst version grinds way better (which I can corroborate with my personal data as well). So banning Lurrus will only really hurt Shadow, thus impacting one of the best policing decks in Modern at the moment.

In general, banning Lurrus, and to a lesser extend, Yorion, will only hurt interactive decks, and I remember well enough the era where these forums where filled with "two ships passing in the night" posts.
Shmanka wrote:
2 years ago
Potential Unbans - Punishing Fire, Original Artifact Lands (If they choose to ban Urza's Saga)
Artifact lands will - distant maybe - be used by Affinity. Hammer doesn't need them; makes Stony Silence mediocre for almost no gain, so I can't see the point of the swap. Why kill - again - artifact decks when they're not even dominating, one deck is just great.

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Simto
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Post by Simto » 2 years ago

metalmusic_4 wrote:
2 years ago
Ok, I can go with lattice. A one of side board card that can come down a turn after karn the great creator. It's powerful but telegraphed pretty clearly.

What is your reasoning?
My reasoning is just that I like it a lot hehe. I'll acknowledge that it's borderline broken though hehe, but it's not impossible to defeat.
But it didn't get unbanned. Nothing got banned either lol.

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motleyslayer
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Post by motleyslayer » 2 years ago

even though I'm pretty happy with the decision to not ban anything today, I would have liked to have seen an unban. But I guess the format is pretty diverse now, so why mess with it

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Post by Shmanka » 2 years ago

motleyslayer wrote:
2 years ago
even though I'm pretty happy with the decision to not ban anything today, I would have liked to have seen an unban. But I guess the format is pretty diverse now, so why mess with it
It's not exactly "mess with it" more so than "damn this is annoying"

I can see the logic wizards has to not make any changes, but it's flawed logic

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Albegas
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Post by Albegas » 2 years ago

I always argue that it's less "We decided that after looking into Modern that Unbans are not necessary" and more "We're too busy putting out fires in other formats to even look at a format that's relatively healthy". We should just sit back and laugh at the fact that Standard just ate 3 more bans and the fact that Alchemy had to rework 18 cards, roughly half of which were nerfs.

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motleyslayer
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Post by motleyslayer » 2 years ago

There are definitely a non zero amount of cards that could come off the ban list if you spend more than a few minutes looking at it. Which is why I always talk about what could be unbanned rather than banned when I discuss it with friends .

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 2 years ago

Shmanka wrote:
2 years ago
motleyslayer wrote:
2 years ago
even though I'm pretty happy with the decision to not ban anything today, I would have liked to have seen an unban. But I guess the format is pretty diverse now, so why mess with it
It's not exactly "mess with it" more so than "damn this is annoying"

I can see the logic wizards has to not make any changes, but it's flawed logic
While I see the point you're making, I feel like they would have to ban several cards (including MH2 cards) in order to make things a little less annoying. A ban of Lurrus only probably would be the thing that seemingly influences the least, but even then you may see a huge increase in Yorion decks.

Remember the good old days when Tron, Bogles, or Affinity was considered annoying? :rofl:

@Simto - Lettuce probably is a card that is only banned due to its ability to be super annoying and possibly time consuming if someone does not concede. Wizards does in fact not ban only on power level reasons and decrease in diversity - see Second Sunrise, which is banned only due to time considerations.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Simto
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Post by Simto » 2 years ago

@FoodChainGoblins I love lettuce man, but I understand why people want meat instead hehe. They did say someting along the lines of "We don't ban cards because some people say they're not fun..... but in this case...."
I use it in my artifact commander deck now though, but I hope I can play Karn and wish it into my hand again at some point hehe. I'll likely be dead by that time though lel.

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cfusionpm
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Post by cfusionpm » 2 years ago

Really surprised Lurrus (and companions in general) are still firmly considered fine by WOTC. As confirmed by Forsythe tweet.



I don't think there is any single problematic card, other than Lurrus. But maybe it is a lynchpin that keeps something ELSE from spiraling out of control? I mean, that never stopped them in the past!

He does have an updated discussion about it after this tweet exploded, where he basically says "Yes, we talked about Lurrus, but we don't want to influence people toward or away from stuff. But YES WE HEAR YOU (we just don't care/don't agree/won't make changes on it).


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Post by drmarkb » 2 years ago

Generally they keep things that are too powerful in one format in others adhere they are almost as powerful for as long as possible. W6 in Modern but not Legacy, Uro in reverse.
They don't want across the board bans. For that reason alone I think it will be a while before Lurrus goes.
In other news, more bonkers removal revealed.

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Simto
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Post by Simto » 2 years ago

What's this new bonkers removal?? There are so many new cards and variations I've kinda given up on looking at spoilers, so I just wait and see what people say is the one broken card of the set hehe.

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Ulka
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 2 years ago

Regarding the ban announcement, I think it's important to realize an important distinction right now.

There are no competitive tournaments, other than Modern Challenges, right now. I think the Challenges have been pretty diverse and FNMs are diverse where I'm at. But if there were Grand Prix right now and the cream rose to the top, then WotC would be forced to look into bans. As everyone knows by now (and most already knew), they did not consider any Modern changes for this announcement.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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