My 7th edition "duel" decks

User avatar
The Fluff
Le fou, c'est moi
Posts: 2398
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Gradius Home World
Contact:

Post by The Fluff » 4 years ago

Image

Hi, the pic on top of this thread are pics of the actual cards.. and that box is the custom made box I created to hold five 40-card 7th edition decks that we use to teach beginners. We also sometimes play them for fun when taking a break from Modern. Why call them "duel decks".. well, because I created them to battle against each other only. All cards are from 7th Edition. However, after some testings I realized that creating a balanced meta is not easy. My fiends who are semi-spikes in Modern helped me to test them when they came to my birthday. First impression they had is the u and b are strong.. they are right about the black, but no one expected the r deck to be the strong one.

These decks have been tweaked repeatedly since last year 2018. You can see how they evoved inside spoiler tags.
I had a thread on mtgsalvation with reports on how we playtested them. Of course, I can't copy paste everything.. but suggestions are still open if people have something to suggest. :)

note: the main purpose of these decks are to teach beginners the basic rules of the game. Some weak cards are added intentionally to try to balance the power levels of the decks against each other.

bbbbb

While teaching my friend the basic rules of mtg. This is the first deck that my friend Karen decided to play. Black is surprisingly easy to teach to a beginner. Oh, and she liked these because the creatures looked like from a horror movie. One thing she say when we were playing is "I hope to draw that card that draws 4 cards soon!" She likes Infernal Contract. XD

This deck fights fairly against the others, except red where it has a slight disadvantage.
Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:

SPOILER
Show
Hide
Changes made to the deck:

After some playtesting Blood Pet changed to Drudge Skeletons
-1 Foul Imp +1 Drudge Skeletons
-1 Hollow Dogs +1 Revenant
-1 Serpent Warrior -1 Looming Shade -1 Razortooth Rats +3 Foul Imp -- need to lower the curve of the deck

9-16-18

-1 Fallen Angel -1 Dakmor Lancer +1 Revenant +1 Gravedigger

11-6-18

-2 Revenant -1 Razortooth Rats +1 Crypt Rats +1 Nightmare +1 Giant Cockroach

12-3-18

-1 Gravedigger +1 Giant Cockroach
wwwww

The only creatures with activated abilities here are the enhancing guys.. Serra Advocate and Angelic Page - because I found them the easiest to explain to my friend. She use this deck just as much as black. Modern friends who came to my b-day also tested this. It does fine against everyone. This deck underwent a lot of development, and finally having 3 Serra Angel which made it sort of 50/50 vs the red deck. Still debating whether to add Castle, as it made Serra Angels too strong.

SPOILER
Show
Hide
7-28-18

-1 Pacifism +1 Breath of Life
-1 Angelic Page +1 Serra Angel

7-29-18

-1 Breath of Life -1 Knight Errant

+1 Angelic Page +1 Serra's Embrace

9-1-18

-1 Longbow Archer +1 Knight Errant

9-3-18

-1 Knight Errant +1 Standing Troops

11-6-18

-1 Pariah - 1 Seasoned Marshall +1 Pacifism +1 Kjeldoran Royal Guard

11-23-18

-1 Serra Angel +1 Knight Errant

12-26-18

-1 Wrath of God +1 Pacifism
ggggg

Honestly, this deck did not win any match when tested by my Modern playing friends. Lost to multiple Air Elementals from blue, and lost to Goblin Glider with Granite Grip in red. As a way to help against fliers I added two Hurricane. Also removed Rod of Ruin - even in this low powered environment, 7 mana for 1 damage is crap. Replaced the rod with an aladdin's ring. I read in old 7th ed draft articles that Trained Armodon are strong, so added 2.

After several more tests, the current iteration works fine now. Surprisingly, a lot of games are won with Hurricane burning away the last life points from the opponent. :P
Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:

SPOILER
Show
Hide
changes I did to the deck after some more testing :)

-1 Grizzly Bear +1 Giant Spider
-1 Treefolk Seedlings +1 Elvish Champion
-1 Redwood Treefolk +1 Uktabi Wildcats
-1 Trained Armodon +1 Elvish Archers
-1 Canopy Spider +1 Elvish Archers
-1 Seeker of Skybreak + 1 Elvish Archers
-1 Spined Wurm +1 Pride of Lions

7-28-18

-1 Uktabi Wildcats +1 Pride of Lions

7-30-18

-2 Rampant Growth +2 Wild Growth

7-31-18

-2 Pride of Lions +1 Spined Wurm +1 Maro
-1 Gang of Elk +1 Uktabi Wildcats
-1 Giant Growth +1 Might of Oaks
rrrrr

Initially thought to be weak.. it's planned to add a third Goblin King. Granite Grips were previosly thought to be terrible, so it' s fine to have 3 of them. However, in actual games this deck burns blockers away to turn Goblin Gliders with Granite Grips into killing machines. As a result... all Granite Grips removed and the planned addition of a 3rd Goblin King is cancelled. Makes good use of chaining Goblin Matrons to help fetch more men, and the firebreathing creatures Pygmy Pyrosaur, Storm Shaman, and Shivan Dragon give the deck some mid-game strength. Bloodshot Cyclops flinging firebreathers backup plan in case goblin rush get stalled. Oh, the granite grips were replaced with more burn.

The most intense games of this deck are against the white, as they are very evenly matched right now.

SPOILER
Show
Hide
to slow down the deck a little

-1 Spitting Earth +1 Impatience
-1 Goblin Glider +1 Crimson Hellkite

7-27-18

Impatience not really good, changed to Final Fortune

7-28-18

-1 Crimson Hellkite +1 Storm Shaman

9-21-18

-1 Volcanic Hammer +1 Granite Grip

9-24-18

-1 Granite Grip +1 Pyrotechinics

11-6-18

-1 Pyrotechnics +1 Lava Axe

12-26-18

-1 Lava Axe -1 Storm Shaman +1 Crimson Hellkite +1 Pyrotechnics
uuuuu

Due the other decks becoming stronger, blue cannot be a control deck anymore. Forced to change it into a simple Merfolk aggro.

The tests we did a few weeks ago it works fine now.

SPOILER
Show
Hide
After some more testing...

-1 Prodigal Sorcerer +1 Daring Apprentice

7-28-18

-1 Mawcor +1 Vizzerdrix

7-29-18

-1 Equilibrium +1 Confiscate

7-30-18

-1 Temporal Adept +1 Prodigal Sorcerer

8-12-18

-1 Glacial Wall +1 Wall of Wonder, -1 Vizzerdrix + 1 Air Elemental, -1 Daring Apprentice +1 Fighting Drake

8-13-18

-1 Ancestral Memories +1 Remove Soul

8-14-18

-1 Wall of Air, -1 Wall of Wonder, -1 Sage Owl, -1 Horned Turtle, +2 Wind Drake, +1 Fighting Drake +1 Merfolk Looter

8-16-18

-1 Confiscate -2 Wind Drake +2 Phantom Warrior + 1 Remove Soul

9-21-18

-1 Island +1 Wind Drake

9-29 18

-1 Prodigal sorcerer +1 Temporal adept

11-6-18

-1 Boomerang -1 Prodigal Sorcerer +1 Sleight of Hand +1 Giant Octopus

11-23-18

-1 Ancestral Memories +1 Inspiration

12-26-18

Major changes to a Merfolk deck

9-21-19

finally changed to a merfolk deck with two lord of atlantis
_______________________________________________

Cards we have decided not to use:

1. Worship - still sees play in Modern even today, and will be very frustrating to play against
2. Intrepid Hero - too oppressive against the green deck
3. Castle - heavily argued on because it makes Serra Angels 4/6 both attack and defense, might be included later if the white deck keeps losing games against red
4. All the paladins because they are color hosers
5. Ancient Silverback - green already has the wildcats
6. Granite Grip - too strong with Goblin Gliders, this might be added again later since the other decks have better removal for flyers now

Cards we have decided to limit in use after testings:

1. Infernal Contract - very powerful card draw, limited to one.
2. Uktabi Wildcats - limited to two
3. Orcish Artillery - limited to one
____________________________________________

Oh, and lastly. I know many people dislike 7th ed for the art... yeah, I agree some art are not so good. But this is the core set presen t when I was first learning magic, so it has sentimental value to me. And as I stated already... my beginner friend likes these cards, so we would play these until she learns enough that we can move on to 60 card decks from other sets. Thanks again to all who give advice on balancing my beginner decks. ^___^
Last edited by The Fluff 1 year ago, edited 3 times in total.
Image
AnimEVO 2020 - EFZ Tournament (english commentary) // Clearing 4 domain with Qiqi
want to play a uw control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread

User avatar
The Fluff
Le fou, c'est moi
Posts: 2398
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Gradius Home World
Contact:

Post by The Fluff » 4 years ago

Latest playtest report:

me using u vs cousin using g

game 1: lost when I tried blocking an elvish archer with two coral merfolk, he giant growth the archers and I never recovered from the 2 for 1.
game 2: won when I counter all the big guys and an elvish champion + ping the one toughness creatures with prodigal sorcerer
game 3: he is mana screwed and I win easily

me using u vs cousin using w

game 1: I take 10 or 12 damage from a single knight errant before a group of merfolk overwhelmed him
game 2: countered a crucial wrath of god for the win. Told me he was trying to bait out counters with other things, so he could resolve the wog. My very last counterspell in hand went to the wog, he would have won if he had one more spell to bait out a counter.

well, ok I won but blue used to lose all the time.. so I guess buying the two lord of atlantis is worth it. Still need to do a few more tests if the power level of blue is just right against the other colors.
Image
AnimEVO 2020 - EFZ Tournament (english commentary) // Clearing 4 domain with Qiqi
want to play a uw control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread

User avatar
Diz
Griever
Posts: 266
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: she / her
Location: Lionheart

Post by Diz » 1 year ago

I love seeing decks like this that are used to help new players learn the game! I actually once taught someone Magic via Cockatrice by building a red deck and a blue deck, both of which were 40-cards, and basically mirror images of each other, with a few variations. It was a fun way to get someone new started. These seem to be fairly well-balanced for playing against each other - are you still updating them with time?

User avatar
The Fluff
Le fou, c'est moi
Posts: 2398
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Gradius Home World
Contact:

Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

@Diz

sorry for the late reply. I did not realize you posted here.
anyway, thanks for commenting.

I don't update the cards anymore, as everything feels to be balanced now.
the decks are still alive and maintained in my room. Planning to bring them out during the relatives visit for our family Christmas party 2022. :)

on the final playtests we did.. people had varying opinions..

my brother who likes playing the black deck says the green is hard to deal with when Armadon come out on turn two, with the help of llanowar elves. He strongly argues that even Kibler's 2k2 world champ deck makes 3/3 creatures appear on turn two with the use of elves. It's the reason that the armodons have been reduced to two in the green deck. lol

a cousin was saying that the blue deck counters too much. Are there too many counterspells or 7 pieces is just right? Still undecided on this.

my friend Karen complain the red deck kills too fast. She likes using the black deck. But the red deck has been nerfed too many times already, I feel that slowing it down some more would be bad. Undecided on this as well.
Image
AnimEVO 2020 - EFZ Tournament (english commentary) // Clearing 4 domain with Qiqi
want to play a uw control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread

User avatar
Diz
Griever
Posts: 266
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: she / her
Location: Lionheart

Post by Diz » 1 year ago

No worries! You always post in my deck threads, so I figured I should return the favor. Hope the Christmas party goes well!

Hmm...I mean, black decks should always have the tools to deal with big creatures - just drop a kill spell, y'know? Between Dark Banishing and Corrupt, I think it has all the tools it needs.

I would drop Counterspell to 3; having Equilibrium is enough slowdown to take out any deck that gets too far ahead, I think, with counterspells being another means of keeping the other player from rebuilding too quickly. I imagine the green deck is probably the most difficult matchup for the blue deck, no?

Sounds like your friend that thinks the red deck is too strong should use her life a little more conservatively as a resource! I don't think it's an issue with the deck, itself.

User avatar
The Fluff
Le fou, c'est moi
Posts: 2398
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Gradius Home World
Contact:

Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

thanks. I'll report back if we do get some games in. :grin:

appreciate the feedback. It's always nice when some other opinion joins in.
will reply to each in detail..
Hmm...I mean, black decks should always have the tools to deal with big creatures - just drop a kill spell, y'know? Between Dark Banishing and Corrupt, I think it has all the tools it needs.
black vs green has been tested a lot with me and my brother playing. On the many games we played, A trained armodon on turn two by the green is 3 damage the next turn bu direct attack if he does not block, or it kills a skeleton or an imp if he does block - he is often forced to use a kill spell on it to stop it coming back for more. It's 3 damage to him + eat up a kill spell, or 3 damage to him + kill a blocker + he needs to use a kill spell (lol). The earliest black creature that will trade with the armodon is Giant Cockroach that comes out turn 4, assuming the black deck went first. Both of us do tight play, and I'm often able to kill the black deck before it can draw and use Corrupt.
I would drop Counterspell to 3; having Equilibrium is enough slowdown to take out any deck that gets too far ahead, I think, with counterspells being another means of keeping the other player from rebuilding too quickly. I imagine the green deck is probably the most difficult matchup for the blue deck, no?
blue vs green - believe it or not, it's the opposite. The green has a hard time with the blue. My friend Earl (he's a spike in modern) played the blue deck, against another modern player and the green did not win at all. Also when I used the blue vs a cousin using the green, I won although there's some back and forth, the fights were not one-sided. Blue wins by countering the big green creatures, or it wins with multiple Air Elementals that green cannot block - I saw Earl winning this way.

will probably cut one counterspell to nerf the blue deck just a tiny bit. Maybe would replace it with a force spike, which is conditional and can be played around?

red deck - ok, will follow your advice. Will keep the red deck as is. Btw, the reason the red deck can damage fast is mostly due to matrons tutoring for the goblin king or tutoring for more matron into king.

______________________

played a few more test games my brother. Which sadly, I lost almost all. :sweat:

white vs. red he plays the white deck. Plenty of fun back and forth trading, because our creatures are similar sizes. In the final game, I was overwhelmed by three Serra Angel. My Shivan dragon, which is larger than the angels, got pacifism. I threw the dragon for direct damage to the player, using the cyclops, but it was not enough.

white vs green he plays white. Turned to a long grind. I had an Aladdin's Ring active, but lost the damage race to two 5/5 serra angel, because of Glorious Anthem. Could not burn the angels with the ring, so I was using it on the player. Thorn Elemental had pacifism on it.
Image
AnimEVO 2020 - EFZ Tournament (english commentary) // Clearing 4 domain with Qiqi
want to play a uw control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread

User avatar
Diz
Griever
Posts: 266
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: she / her
Location: Lionheart

Post by Diz » 1 year ago

Do you think, then that there's room for a Dark Ritual or two in the black deck? Maybe a Culling the Weak? It's quick mana and could push you to a viable threat in response to green's own threat.

If green has trouble with blue, maybe consider a copy or two of those green cards that do damage to all creatures? I can't remember the name(s).

Sounds like some rough matches for you! Do you think it has anything to do with the deck compositions, or was it just bad draws?

User avatar
The Fluff
Le fou, c'est moi
Posts: 2398
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Gradius Home World
Contact:

Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

these decks only use cards from 7th Edition expansion. So no Dark Ritual allowed. I appreciate the suggestion though.

yeah, green already has Hurricane in the main. Should help against flyers.

rough matches for me. But at the same time, glad that I do lose games, because it means the decks have some strength in them Since I created these decks.. and know what cards are in them. When playing against someone, I make sure to show them what cards the deck I'm using has. So that I don't have an unfair advantage.
Image
AnimEVO 2020 - EFZ Tournament (english commentary) // Clearing 4 domain with Qiqi
want to play a uw control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Casual”