[SCD] Old Gnawbone

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

This is gonna sound weird, but stay with me....



what the actually *bleep* were they thinking with this nonsense, seriously?

How did they somehow make a more egregiously annoying green bomb than Nyxbloom Ancient?

Does this card need banning? Maybe, maybe not. Should this card have been printed? heeeelllllll no.

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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

To be honest, yes its clearly very strong. But also if you're at the point your curve where you're hardcasting this and still need the treasure you might have problems with efficiency in your win conditions.

I get it though. I still think Dockside is worse but this is still pretty ridiculous.
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
2 years ago
To be honest, yes its clearly very strong. But also if you're at the point your curve where you're hardcasting this and still need the treasure you might have problems with efficiency in your win conditions.

I get it though. I still think Dockside is worse but this is still pretty ridiculous.
My experience thus far has been that this might as well be free. Cast it, attack, ramp 15, do whatever the hell you want :P

Dockside is "better" but less good in casual games where people don't play as many 0-1 mana artifacts.

Being goodstuff that combos with all the stupid attack step shenanigans also is lame. :P

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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
2 years ago
To be honest, yes its clearly very strong. But also if you're at the point your curve where you're hardcasting this and still need the treasure you might have problems with efficiency in your win conditions.

I get it though. I still think Dockside is worse but this is still pretty ridiculous.
My experience thus far has been that this might as well be free. Cast it, attack, ramp 15, do whatever the hell you want :P

Dockside is "better" but less good in casual games where people don't play as many 0-1 mana artifacts.

Being goodstuff that combos with all the stupid attack step shenanigans also is lame. :P
Yeah, I get what you mean. It's not 'entire format' pushed. But it is pretty pushed for a mid tier meta and a 7 mana card. Since when this green need this anyway?
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

I don't like this design, at all, but I don't think it's anywhere near bannability. Nyxbloom doesn't have as much potential for immediate impact (or at least, you need more mana set up) but requiring a big combat swing on the same turn you played a 7-drop that (presumably) didn't contribute in combat isn't trivial. And requires being pretty on-board, whereas ancient can go off with relatively little board commitment.

Again, don't like the design, but I don't think it's anywhere near the worst problems in the format.
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Post by folding_music » 2 years ago

Gnawbone is a good design and it follows Beledros who seems stronger to me anyway. actual valid bombs are cool when so many high cmc green creatures are just "Big; gets bigger", and in a format where people play nice this comes down late and can't really be yr commander since it's gonna get killspelled once by every other player and then cost fifteen mana. the more fetching, ramping, tutoring you become accustomed to, the earlier you'll see payoffs like these, which is precisely what you've signed up for as far as I can tell

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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

It seems fine to me. There are better things to cheat out, or cheaper things to win with.

It doesn't even strike me as a design mistake. Sakiko, Mother of Summer has existed for years, and nobody said anything.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Sinis wrote:
2 years ago
It seems fine to me. There are better things to cheat out, or cheaper things to win with.

It doesn't even strike me as a design mistake. Sakiko, Mother of Summer has existed for years, and nobody said anything.
This...is not a valid comparison at all. Treasure tokens last until you use them and make any colored mana, and gnawbone is a flying 7/7. So he ramps 7 if you give him haste and guarantees ramp 7 next turn. It's a sizable upgrade for 1 mana :P

I'm willing to accept that this is probably not banworthy but my god who thought it was a good idea ?

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Post by plushpenguin » 2 years ago

I have gotten enough testing in to confirm that Xenagos decks break this in half... twice over.

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Post by EonAon » 2 years ago

This is actually a really good card, but also a really confusing card. Its really good at what it does and between the stats and abilities really shines. The problem lies with if you ramp out to this card at turns 3, 4, or 5 consistently your already running a deck thats already highly tuned at ramp regardless and probably lacks definitive creatures you care to swing with other than old gnaw. Other mana sinks will appreciate that ramp more that the ability to gain treasure in most cases since its more consistent and will lack the almost certain insta gib that Gnaw will draw to it as a commander. Its one of those cards that actually feels better to get turn 6/7 rather than totally ramping into so that your board gets better development it truly want to leverage the treasure ability so that any sinks you do have are not fighting for the same turn as Gnaw.

If this is part of the 100 it becomes too inconsistent to realistically care to put into play since there are better drops to end a game with unless you use gnaw as a combo bit.

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Post by Legend » 2 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
2 years ago
Since when this green need this anyway?
My first thought upon seeing it.
It could have been so fun in white.
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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
Sinis wrote:
2 years ago
It seems fine to me. There are better things to cheat out, or cheaper things to win with.

It doesn't even strike me as a design mistake. Sakiko, Mother of Summer has existed for years, and nobody said anything.
This...is not a valid comparison at all. Treasure tokens last until you use them and make any colored mana, and gnawbone is a flying 7/7. So he ramps 7 if you give him haste and guarantees ramp 7 next turn. It's a sizable upgrade for 1 mana :P

I'm willing to accept that this is probably not banworthy but my god who thought it was a good idea ?
Man, I'm going to ask you a serious question.

At 7 CMC, who cares? Did you stick Zendikar Resurgent? Rishkar's Expertise? Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite? Nyxbloom Ancient?

I mean that in the most literal sense. Who cares?

If you play a 7-mana card, shouldn't it be good? If you cheat a 7+ mana creature, isn't there already a universe in which you've basically won? How is this worse than Razaketh, the Foulblooded? Who cares???

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Post by BounceBurnBuff » 2 years ago

Yeah, I'm not on board with this even being a problem card. I'd be more concerned with something Entomb/Reanimating Nyxbloom over a mono green deck turbo-ramping into yet more ramp.

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Post by Arebennian » 1 year ago

Just bringing this back up so see how you feel about this in comparison to Ancient Copper Dragon?

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Post by Sinis » 1 year ago

Arebennian wrote:
1 year ago
Just bringing this back up so see how you feel about this in comparison to Ancient Copper Dragon?
IMO it's probably fine. It needs to connect (while Old Gnawbone needs any creature to connect). Most of the roll results are going to be really good, but, idk, I feel like 6 mv is the zenith for stuff that will provide absurd resources.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Arebennian wrote:
1 year ago
Just bringing this back up so see how you feel about this in comparison to Ancient Copper Dragon?
I hate them both but gnawbone is more deterministic. I wish they would stop making 7 drops that end the game if they stick for a turn. It's tiresome. It makes every game about ramping to 7

Gnawbone is much more annoying because you drop it and bash with your board making it free.

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Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

I am annoyed with the 7 drops that give you insane amounts of mana. Not because they need to be banned or anything - they just make for such long turns.
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Post by BaronCappuccino » 1 year ago

The most irritating thing about Gnawbone is that green shouldn't have a flying artifact producer. The color hates on flying and artifacts. It's not a color pie breech in service of equalizing a color that's behind - green is tied for 1st place with blue. In Magic's early days, quality was part of blue's color pie, so it could justify having anything it wanted so long as blue remained better than everyone else. Seems that quality has shifted to green as of late.

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Post by Theoric » 1 year ago

I like the flavor of this card - a dragon that's accumulating treasure.

Can't wait to give it haste and myriad with duke ulder ravengard and have the token-making ability trigger three times.

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Post by Dragoon » 1 year ago

Theoric wrote:
1 year ago
I like the flavor of this card - a dragon that's accumulating treasure.

Can't wait to give it haste and myriad with duke ulder ravengard and have the token-making ability trigger three times.
Myriad won't do much by itself since Old Gnawbone is legendary.

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Post by BaronCappuccino » 1 year ago

Theoric wrote:
1 year ago
I like the flavor of this card - a dragon that's accumulating treasure.

Can't wait to give it haste and myriad with duke ulder ravengard and have the token-making ability trigger three times.
Can't disagree, but it should be red like all the other dragons accumulating treasure. The color is the only thing wrong with Gnawbone.

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Post by Theoric » 1 year ago

Dragoon wrote:
1 year ago
Myriad won't do much by itself since Old Gnawbone is legendary.
You're right. To get around that, my plan is to cheat out miirym, sentinel wyrm first, then Gnawbone, and have Duke Ulder Ravengard give haste/myriad to the nonlegendary Gnawbone token. In a 4-player game if my opponents have no flying blockers and I attack with 4 gnawbones and Miirym, I believe that's 136 treasure tokens lol. It sounds convoluted but in playtesting it seems easy to do in the hermit druid deck I'm building.

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