[SCD] Drannith Magistrate

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6276
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

So, I've already had a bunch of discussions about this and figured it deserves its own thread.



I feel like this card demands a change to the commander rules to treat casting a commander as if it were from your hand; it would fix a few issues where things like possibility storm don't affect commanders but should, and enable a few commanders that are just fine myojin of night's reach and so on.

They've already stopped using that templating much, to allow cast triggers for commanders, e.g. zacama, primal calamity.

If they aren't going to fix it with rules I feel like a 2 cmc hatebear that shuts off the format *and does a lot of other good stuff* will inevitably be banned, which is a bummer because outside of shutting off commanders the effect is REALLY needed in the format full of cheating spells.

Tags:

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4538
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
possibility storm don't affect commanders but should
No it shouldn't. Gtfo with that chaos crap. Unless it gets possibility storm banned, in which case yes please.

This guy is strong, but I think saying he turns off the format is a bit much. Play more removal. Somebody will want to kill him.

Myojin of night's reach would be pretty annoying as a commander. 8 mana is pretty rampable by like turn 4. Totally fine with that not being a thing.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6276
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
4 years ago
pokken wrote:
4 years ago
possibility storm don't affect commanders but should
No it shouldn't. Gtfo with that chaos crap. Unless it gets possibility storm banned, in which case yes please.

This guy is strong, but I think saying he turns off the format is a bit much. Play more removal. Somebody will want to kill him.

Myojin of night's reach would be pretty annoying as a commander. 8 mana is pretty rampable by like turn 4. Totally fine with that not being a thing.
Think about intent. Whether you like possibility storm or not, that card only has a 'from hand' rider to prevent it from locking the game by itself. Cards like wild pair have the from hand rider to prevent reanimation/blinking not to prevent commanders from triggering them.

He turns off the main thing that makes the format unique; that is, having access to your commander.

If Tucking doesn't work and killing doesn't work there's no way a 2 mana hatebear should work.

We know that "dies to removal" is not a complete argument. We need to think about the effect it has on the format when it's on the board and doesn't get removed. Leovold, Iona, prophet, etc. all died to removal.

User avatar
Myllior
Posts: 229
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 1
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Myllior » 4 years ago

While very powerful, I don't believe he warrants a rules change. Temporarily losing access to your commander, assuming you don't get yours out before the Magistrate comes down, is a pain but hardly an unmanageable one; answers to this card are plentiful and there shouldn't be a single deck that needs to warp its existing suite of interaction in order to answer this.

While he does do more than just affect commanders, my view on other aspects the Magistrate affects, such as using the graveyard as a second hand or cheating cards in via exile or the like, is that there's the implicit assumption of risk when you pursue those strategies. In my opinion, it's been a bit too easy to get away with things like that, with commanders like Muldrotha and Golos entering the fray, so I'm happy to see something of a 'universal' hatebear.

Of course the combination of the two, in that it hits "fair" decks while providing serious game against "unfair" decks (take whatever meaning you want from those titles; you get the intent), has the potential to become problematic, but this card deserves to have its time in the sun before action is taken specifically in relation to it.
Kefnet Voltron | Ayli Reanistocrats | Derevi Pod | Kodama//Ishai Blink | Jetmir Hatebears | Kess Storm | Smasher//Sakashima Control

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4538
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
Think about intent. Whether you like possibility storm or not, that card only has a 'from hand' rider to prevent it from locking the game by itself. Cards like wild pair have the from hand rider to prevent reanimation/blinking not to prevent commanders from triggering them.

He turns off the main thing that makes the format unique; that is, having access to your commander.

If Tucking doesn't work and killing doesn't work there's no way a 2 mana hatebear should work.

We know that "dies to removal" is not a complete argument. We need to think about the effect it has on the format when it's on the board and doesn't get removed. Leovold, Iona, prophet, etc. all died to removal.
What you think the intent of a card is isn't a thing that matters. Possibility storm also doesn't affect cards being cast from suspend, or flashback, or a bunch of other stuff. WotC isn't exactly breaking their necks trying to make those all work the way you think they "intended". The card does what the card does and no more.

He turns it off...while he's on the board. If Leovold restored your hand after he left he'd probably be fine (plus I'm not convinced he was a problem anyway, but to be fair I never played against him). Iona did NOT die to removal, that was why she sucked. If you were playing mono-black, even if half your deck was removal, if she can down and named black you were screwed. If she said "you can't cast that color except for removal spells aimed at my face" she'd be 100% A-OK. Prophet died to removal, but it generated an incredible amount of tempo very fast that's hard to keep up with, plus it's in good colors to protect itself. Magistrate will definitely be annoying, but probably the rest of the table is on your side trying to remove it, and it doesn't really generate any insurmountable advantages unless it's survived for turn after turn against commander-centric decks. Annoying, yes, bannable, probably not.

I mean peacekeeper shuts down all combat, which is how the vast majority of decks try to win. Anyone calling for peacekeeper to get banned? No? No takers on that one?
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
Mookie
Posts: 3460
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 47
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: the æthereal plane

Post by Mookie » 4 years ago

Card seems reasonable to me - as a creature with no protection and a target on its head, I would expect most decks to be capable of dealing with it if necessary. If anything, it seems more fair than Nevermore, since every color has access to creature removal.

...this actually somewhat reminds me of how things were before the tuck rule was removed - when you weren't guaranteed access to your commander at all times, it became more necessary to have backup plans that didn't rely on your general. I don't think promoting that style of game play is necessarily a bad thing. I see decks occasionally that fall apart if their commander is stolen or turned into a tree, and I think encouraging a bit of resilience is a good thing.

....of course, in addition to shutting down commanders, it's also a very potent asymmetric hatebear that shuts down Rebound, Flashback, Cascade, and a bunch of other mechanics, so it will probably see some play. But given the whole 'white doesn't get anything good in EDH' thing, I'm up for giving it a shot in the format before rendering any judgment.

illakunsaa
Posts: 251
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by illakunsaa » 4 years ago

Imagine if The First Sliver could't get cascade off slivers. That would be very sad...






...for the sliver player.

User avatar
WizardMN
Posts: 1963
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Twin Cities
Contact:

Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
If Tucking doesn't work and killing doesn't work there's no way a 2 mana hatebear should work.
Tucking is one of the parallels I would have made as well, though I came to a different conclusion. Killing works fine. Or, as fine as it needs to in that it makes things cost more.

There has been some renewed debate over the removal of tuck and one of the major things that comes up is regarding losing your commander for the game. Things come up like "your deck shouldn't be so reliant on your commander" or "this is a great way to hose troublesome commanders like Animar". Or whatever. This card has similar arguments but the execution is not at all the same.

For starters, your Commander is still accessible. Tuck has a bit more permanence to it and can be stopped by a smaller number of effects. Pretty much every color has ways to deal with creatures and you just need to get this off the board to cast your commander. Sure, it can come back, but your commander simply waits while you deal with it and you still get to play the rest of your deck. Tuck was altogether different in that if you couldn't deal with it at the time, you were likely without your commander for the majority (if not the rest) of the game,

When I saw this card I started thinking about how it would affect my decks if I saw play against it. Would it shut down my decks completely? No. This card isn't even close to that level of disruption. Of the decks I have now, Karador is hurt the most by it since it stops him from being cast but also stops his ability from working.

And my thought when I went through this was "eh..". The deck is already built with dealing with disruption in mind. I made a very conscious decision to update my deck's removal mainly for Torpor Orb and Overwhelming Splendor. And the removal spells we have nowadays are so flexible that pretty much every answer I have for those also answers this.

I don't know how this card will play out. I don't know the level of disruption this will have compared to true stax pieces. But my guess is that it allows players to deal with opposing generals without the opponents being completely shut out of the game. Even in my Kykar deck, which is hurt quite a bit since the deck revolves around him to an unhealthy degree, is likely not too affected. It is still a creature and, as others have pointed out, the effect is "symmetrical" for everyone but the controller which suggests that there may be 3 people trying to get rid of it.

Now, if the card becomes insanely ubiquitous due to the effect, perhaps there is something there to warrant a banning. But I don't believe the effect itself is worthy of a ban even if it does make commanders take longer to cast.

User avatar
cryogen
GΘΔ†
Posts: 1056
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Westminster, MD
Contact:

Post by cryogen » 4 years ago

Even though dies to removal isn't a valid reason for not banning a card (except when it is), I don't see this card ever getting banned. It dies to a stiff breeze. That said....

When it was first spoiled I stated on Twitter that it was more ban worthy than Lutri (admittedly when i first saw it somehow i thought it was an enchantment and not a creature, so I thought it was *slightly* harder to deal with*). Regardless, the reason I feel this way is that basically the otter only hits one aspect of the Not Actually A Checklist ban list criteria checklist: ubiquity. And yes, while the concern of the RC is valid, I don't think the actual in-game impact is going to be as drastic as to warrant a ban.

Drannith only hits one area as well, creating undesirable game states. He has an unbalanced effect that stops players from casting their signature card in their deck with no downside. This card is like Sol Ring in that you have to find a reason why you shouldn't run it in your deck rather than a reason why you should. And yes, while he does die fairly easy, white has no shortage of ways to recur a small creature, meaning that until exiled he could be a continuing hassle.

Ultimately, I don't feel that Drannith is worthy of a ban, but i feel like he represents the cards that aren't healthy for the greater format.
Sheldon wrote:You're the reason we can't have nice things.

MrMystery314
Posts: 64
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by MrMystery314 » 4 years ago

Pods who want to play stax effects presumably also play ways to deal with said stax effects, unless for some reason everyone enjoys 6-hour games. Pods who don't want to play stax effects are not pressured into including this card because it is clearly not what they want to play, unlike something like Lutri, where one can't cite that justification. The argument of "play more removal" still holds true, and if your playgroup really hates playing removal or something like that, then either accept the consequences or self-police "annoying" cards like this. Unlike Iona, where one player often gets to twiddle their thumbs for the rest of the game while everyone else is either unaffected or mildly inconvenienced, this is not specifically targeted, and even if your commander is the highlight of your deck, you have 99 other cards you could be playing too. And if you're playing some sort of gimmick strategy that is completely shut down by this with no way of getting rid of it, you made that choice and you can reap the consequences.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6276
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
4 years ago
pokken wrote:
4 years ago
If Tucking doesn't work and killing doesn't work there's no way a 2 mana hatebear should work.
Tucking is one of the parallels I would have made as well, though I came to a different conclusion. Killing works fine. Or, as fine as it needs to in that it makes things cost more.

When I saw this card I started thinking about how it would affect my decks if I saw play against it. Would it shut down my decks completely? No. This card isn't even close to that level of disruption. Of the decks I have now, Karador is hurt the most by it since it stops him from being cast but also stops his ability from working.
This card is not going to affect me at all. It's going to give me a huge edge against decks of slightly lower power level that I commonly play against that will struggle to remove a defended bear. And that's what makes me think it's potentially a problem.
Even in my <blank> deck, <not really game ending consequences>
This was my first line of thinking. All of my decks either have multiple answers for stuff or rate to crank their commanders out so fast you're not going to be able to tutor for this card, so only will have a bad game on the rare occasion you draw it in your opener.

The kinds of decks I run into most often are decks that are doing a pretty powerful thing pretty efficiently and have fairly minimum interaction for when the powerful thing they are doing is not enough to win. Very often this powerful thing is commander dependent/related.

People can make the argument that these people should be playing more removal and that's been a really long standing debate in commander -- how much gameplan vs. removal people should have to play, etc. It was really a loud refrain back during the prophet of kruphix days.

I think this card is going to lead to a lot of bad taste in people's mouths in mid powered games where there's a wide variance in how much removal people play. For me, if I have my commander on the table and no one else can the power level discrepancy is going to be very close to me having a Prophet.

I also think this will see way more play than people think who are hand-waiving it and saying "oh, stax players gonna stax." In my experience a card like this will have just enough timmy appeal that a good portion of people will jam it because it has a format specific effect. "Ooh, this guy stops those problem commanders!"

I hope you guys are right; I tend to trust you and cryogen for really balanced takes on things, so it's very possible I am just overreacting.

User avatar
folding_music
glitter pen on my mana crypt
Posts: 2236
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: they / them

Post by folding_music » 4 years ago

the card does seem efficient and unnecessary to me. my issue with it isn't even how it'll play so much as why it exists - it looks like wotcee attempting to print sideboard cards and be in tune with the meta, which never goes well. giggle. I wish they'd go back to doing top-down flavour cards and let the optimizers ruin the meta on their own <3

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6276
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

folding_music wrote:
4 years ago
the card does seem efficient and unnecessary to me. my issue with it isn't even how it'll play so much as why it exists - it looks like wotcee attempting to print sideboard cards and be in tune with the meta, which never goes well. giggle. I wish they'd go back to doing top-down flavour cards and let the optimizers ruin the meta on their own <3
it is very clearly the "woops we printed something overpowered, here's a hatebear a day late and a dollar short" for underworld breach and uro, titan of nature's wrath in standard.

it *is* by far the most efficiently worded template for "please don't escape stuff but also try to be relevant in eternal formats with cascade and stuff." So I like the parsimony of words, vs "Can't cast from exile, graveyard, etc."

User avatar
WizardMN
Posts: 1963
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Twin Cities
Contact:

Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
I think this card is going to lead to a lot of bad taste in people's mouths in mid powered games where there's a wide variance in how much removal people play. For me, if I have my commander on the table and no one else can the power level discrepancy is going to be very close to me having a Prophet.
This is a fine point really. I don't think the level of obnoxiousness reaches that of Prophet since this really shuts down 1 card (that we care about; shutting down other strategies is fine). But your point about leaving a bad taste and the, potential, lack of removal to deal with it could move the needle. I think a lot of us on these forums tend to do things to make our decks work with the foresight of not having access to our commanders or dealing with things that hurt our decks so we build with that in mind.

But, as you alluded to, not everyone does that. Little Joey building a sweet new Haldan+Pako deck could come into their store, play against a pod where this card comes up, and feel really bad because they can't get their deck to to work the way they want. The answer is "run more removal" but that doesn't work for Joey. He is just starting out and found that a 2 mana card shuts down his entire deck. He might not come back at all. He also might add that removal and just not draw it which has the same result.

Now, I think this card actively encourages better deck building, if it shows up often, but newer players especially might not see it that way. I still don't think we ever get to banning it, but that doesn't mean it can't be miserable to play against.

But, there are a lot of cards that suck to play against or create huge amounts of advantage for the other player. Consecrated Sphinx, Vorinclex, Tooth and Nail, etc. are cards that I still think are more kill/counter on sight than this card is. While this card does kind of affect the nature of the format a little more, in terms of actually playing Magic it is well below a lot of other cards in terms of impact.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6276
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
4 years ago
Now, I think this card actively encourages better deck building, if it shows up often, but newer players especially might not see it that way. I still don't think we ever get to banning it, but that doesn't mean it can't be miserable to play against.

But, there are a lot of cards that suck to play against or create huge amounts of advantage for the other player. Consecrated Sphinx, Vorinclex, Tooth and Nail, etc. are cards that I still think are more kill/counter on sight than this card is. While this card does kind of affect the nature of the format a little more, in terms of actually playing Magic it is well below a lot of other cards in terms of impact.
In my experience with hushbringer anyway people psychologically react differently to 2 mana hatebears than to 9 mana bombs or whatever, though everyone does hate vorinclex :P

There's a valley in deckbuilding skill where most people stop in commander and it's "I'm doing my powerful thing and I have a couple pieces of removal" and that type of player is gonna frigging hate having their commander shut off for 2 mana vs. someone steamrolling them with Csphinx after they've done their thing, quite different.

But again I just hope you're right, and that the foil preorders come up soon :P

umtiger
Posts: 394
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by umtiger » 4 years ago

folding_music wrote:
4 years ago
the card does seem efficient and unnecessary to me. my issue with it isn't even how it'll play so much as why it exists - it looks like wotcee attempting to print sideboard cards and be in tune with the meta, which never goes well. giggle. I wish they'd go back to doing top-down flavour cards and let the optimizers ruin the meta on their own <3
If answer cards like this weren't efficient (and a 1W 1/3 that generates zero advantage is actually not efficient), they wouldn't stand a chance of stopping the more efficient threats that it was meant to answer.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6276
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Yeah I really think this card is great design all around, just the splash damage of hitting commanders I don't like. Free casting from bins and libraries and exile and other people's libraries is a huge problem in EDH that it's nice to have a clean answer to -- it stops:
And the list goes on and on of annoying bullcrap it stops...I just wish it didn't hit commanders because that feels like one step too far for me.

I feel like the rule edit that makes commanders count as being cast from hand would be a much cleaner fix and would fix this problem in the future when they put 'cast from hand' tests/riders on things.

User avatar
Handsome Jack
Posts: 1
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Handsome Jack » 4 years ago

I'm surprised that this cards leads to a thread like this. Sure not having access to your Commander for some rounds is annoying, but cards like Oko, Thief of Crowns or Winter Orb are way more annoying and much harder to get rid of. If that card gets banned, I can't take the RC serious anymore.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6276
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Handsome Jack wrote:
4 years ago
I'm surprised that this cards leads to a thread like this. Sure not having access to your Commander for some rounds is annoying, but cards like Oko, Thief of Crowns or Winter Orb are way more annoying and much harder to get rid of. If that card gets banned, I can't take the RC serious anymore.
You really can't see any differences between those things and a card that creates multiple lockout combos as well as shutting off people *casting* their commanders?

User avatar
RxPhantom
Fully Vaxxed, Baby!
Posts: 1513
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Southern Maryland

Post by RxPhantom » 4 years ago

I think the card is fine. Comparisons to PoK or Iona don't play. PoK generated absurd amounts of value, and Iona could shut down opponents' ability to answer her. Magistrate does neither; and players should have other cards in their 99 to advance their game plans.
Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 2/18/22 (Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty)

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6276
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

RxPhantom wrote:
4 years ago
I think the card is fine. Comparisons to PoK or Iona don't play. PoK generated absurd amounts of value, and Iona could shut down opponents' ability to answer her. Magistrate does neither; and players should have other cards in their 99 to advance their game plans.
So compare a board wherein I have Ephara and am casting ephara spells and drawing 3-4 cards a turn cycle but no one else can have theirs out, and one where instead I have prophet of kruphix and everyone has their commanders out and is drawing an extra card or two a turn (roughly average for most good commanders).

It's not *that* different and it costs 2 vs. 5.

I'm tellin ya that the power disparity between one person having commander and 3 people not is quite substantial; commanders generally represent at least a card a turn, and some are a ton more (in my Feather build I copied from Rumpy, Feather often represents 5 cards a turn cycle).

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 3984
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

I'm seriously looking forward to getting a copy - Bruna wants.

I think in the big scheme of things it's a relatively unpleasant effect, sure, but it's no Iona. The fact that this thing dies to a stiff breeze balances it out fine. I say relatively because it's a trade off I'm happy with in the right place - temporarily can't cast a commander from the zone vs shutting down Bolas's Citadel, Underworld Breach, cascade, flashback, suspend and a crap ton of reanimation strategies? I'm down. Although end of the day it doesn't stop Living Death et al, so it's not the complete silver bullet.

Ultimately, this card is the sort that will teach people to run damn removal, I'm always baffled at how few people do. I think people new to the format will likely dislike the card, but seasoned vets will be able to play around it just fine. There's plenty of 'bounce to hand' and 'soft reanimation' in the format so it's totally possible to play around it, and anyone whose entire deck revolves around being able to cast their commander, from the command zone, 100% of the time in a game, is in for a bad time whether they see this card or not.
Last edited by toctheyounger 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

if4ko
Posts: 48
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: New England

Post by if4ko » 4 years ago

The card does not shut down the removal needed to remove it.

/thread

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6276
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

if4ko wrote:
4 years ago
The card does not shut down the removal needed to remove it.

/thread
The list of things on the banlist that do not shut down the removal needed to remove them is...long?

User avatar
Sojourner Dusk
Dominarian Hitchhiker
Posts: 189
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Blind Eternities

Post by Sojourner Dusk » 4 years ago

On its own, Drannith Magistrate isn't backbreaking. It is a small creature that does not protect itself. It can be removed from the board with cards that should be run in most, if not all, decks, depending on color identity.

However, if combined with Possibility Storm or Knowledge Pool, it creates a soft lock for all of your opponents (lands are the only thing able to be played), which is far more abusive than just stopping you from casting your Generals.
May your games be chaotic and your decks be rogue.



UBR Nekusar (EDH)
RGW Mayael, Naturally (EDH)

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Rules and Philosophy”