Dirk's Commander Cube - with Synergy!

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

Commander and draft are my two favorite formats, and I've always loved the idea of mixing multiplayer elements and building around a legend from commander, and the skill-first and build-as-you-go structure of draft. I've also conveniently got a collection of, as I always put it, "every card you could ever want to play in commander" - currently ~8,000 singleton sleeved cards, including everything from tabernacle to saltskitter. And I've got a group of people interested in drafting commander.

So now it's time to use that collection for something beyond regularly crushing commander night - it's time to cuuuube!

I've had some thoughts about how to do this.

A lot of commander cubes seem to focus around fairly goodstuff lists, and the most popular commander cards, but I want to go in a somewhat different direction. One of the things I like about both commander and draft is being able to go deep on synergies, and when it comes together in draft it is oh-so-sweet. I want to enable synergy-heavy decks in a few ways:

-Give every color pair an explicit synergy
-Of the commander options available for each color pair, make the majority key into that synergy
-For 3-color commanders, make the majority key into a synergy from one of their color pairs
-Draft commanders first, so that players can start drafting towards those synergies ASAP
-Dedicate the majority of cards in the cube towards those synergies
The synergies I've chosen, based on the popularity of the archetype, number of commanders available to synergize with the archetype, and efficacy of drafting towards that archetype are:
WU - blink
UB - mill
BR - sacrifice
RG - land ramp
GW - tokens
WB - lifegain
BG - dredge
GU - counters (+1/+1 primarily)
UR - artifacts
RW - combat

So far the commanders chosen to represent the archetypes (first the 2-color, then the 3-color) are:

UW blink - Brago, King Eternal, Ephara, God of the Polis, Rasputin Dreamweaver, Aminatou, the Fateshifter, Pramikon, Sky Rampart, Roon of the Hidden Realm
UB mill - Lazav, Dimir Mastermind, Phenax, God of Deception, Wrexial, the Risen Deep, Nekusar, the Mindrazer, The Mimeoplasm, Varina, Lich Queen (technically off-theme but best I could find)
BR sac - Judith, the Scourge Diva, Garna, the Bloodflame, Greven, Predator Captain, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, Marchesa, the Black Rose
RG land ramp - Grand Warlord Radha, Nikya of the old Ways, Omnath, Locus of Rage, Hazezon Tamar, Maelstrom Wanderer, Lord Windgrace
GW tokens - Rhys the Redeemed, Trostani, Selesnya's Voice, Trostani Discordant, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Ghave, Guru of Spores, Ghired, Conclave Exile
WB lifegain - Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, Kambal, Consul of Allocation, Vona, Butcher of Magan, Oloro, Ageless Ascetic, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, Doran, the Siege Tower (no good alternatives)
BG dredge - Varolz, the Scar-Striped, Meren of Clan Nel Toth, Izoni, Thousand-Eyed, Adun Oakenshield, Karador, Ghost Chieftain, Muldrotha, the Gravetide
GU counters - Vorel of the Hull Clade, Ezuri, Claw of Progress, Prime Speaker Zegana, Jenara, Asura of War, Volrath, the Shapestealer, Animar, Soul of Elements
UR artifacts - Tawnos, Urza's Apprentice, Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain, Saheeli, the Gifted, Mairsil, the Pretender, Yasova Dragonclaw (big stretch but she is synergistic with equipment kinda), Elsha of the Infinite (also a stretch)
RW combat - Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice, Adriana, Captain of the Guard, Aurelia, the Warleader, Marisi, Breaker of the Coil, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, Zurgo Helmsmasher

My priorities for these commanders are (1) motivating synergy with the chosen archetypes or at least being a good home for them, (2) being good enough that people will actually want to play them, and (3) not being hugely annoying to play against (this may be more relevant later on down the line, but right now I'm mostly using it to exclude commanders like Anafenza, the Foremost who can create unfun situations for grave-based decks. Grave hate in the deck is fine, in the CZ gets a bit boring/frustrating).

Beyond synergies, I also plan to sprinkle in some more generically useful commanders in case synergies fail to come together. For these I'm mostly looking for popular commanders that people enjoy playing, although in the future it'll probably be a good place to tune the cube to color-balance if certain colors aren't popular enough (cough boros cough). I'm also using some of these to enable synergies that might not be covered elsewhere but don't require specific cards to be effective - Baron von Count, for example, motivates certain picks but doesn't require throwing in specific tribal cards or anything like that, so it opens the door for interesting, off-the-wall decks without sacrificing cards in the cube. The ones I'm looking at for those are:

UW - Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Dragonlord Ojutai
UB - Lazav, the Multifarious, Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
BR - Baron von Count, Rakdos, Lord of Riots
RG - Ulrich of the Krallenhorde, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
GW - Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist, Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
WB - Athreos, God of Passage, Triad of Fates
BG - Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord (you try finding a non-dredge BG commander that doesn't suck), Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
GU - Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle, Rashmi, Eternities Crafter
UR - Nin, the Pain Artist, Niv-Mizzet, Parun
RW - Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
WUB - Sen Triplets, Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign
UBR - Gwendlyn Di Corci, Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
BRG - Kresh, the Bloodbraided, Vaevictus Asmadi, the Dire
RGW - Samut, Voice of Dissent, Rienne, Angel of Rebirth
GWU - Phelddagrif, Rafiq of the Many
WBG - Teneb, the Harvester, Kethis, the Hidden Hand
BGU - Yarok, the Desecrated, Damia, Sage of Stone
GUR - Riku of Two Reflections, Intet, the Dreamer
URW - Kykar, Wind's Fury, Zedruu, the Greathearted
RWB - Mathas, Fiend Seeker, Queen Marchesa
WUBRG - Niv-Mizzet Reborn, Golos, Tireless Pilgrim, Morophon, the Boundless

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I'm considering cutting these down to 1-ofs instead of 2-ofs, or maybe even cutting them entirely, depending on how successful synergies are. On the other hand, I like having cards that create their own synergies like niv-mizzet reborn and kalemne.

Planning to draft a commander pack of 5(?) from those commanders, followed by 5x 15-card packs. Decks will be 60 cards including the commander. There will be mono-colored legends in packs (which could theoretically be commanders though they won't be explicitly supported), but no multicolor ones. Ballpark I'm thinking 1000 cards to ensure variety. It'll probably be classic, 40-life, 4-player commander, but I might experiment with 30 as a way to empower boros and depower sultai.

I'm currently on vacation (aren't I always?) so I don't have my cards to start actually building with, but this is what I'm thinking right now. I don't want to try to create the entire cube without having my cards in hand, since I find it a lot easier to build with physical cards instead of deck building apps.

Balance-wise it'll be even color distribution, with roughly 3/5 of the cards of each color being dedicated to synergies (some will overlap of course). I'm hoping to get around 6-7% of the total cube dedicated to each synergy, so that each pack will have an average of one card per synergy. That should hopefully mean that, if you aren't getting cut, you could end up with a mostly-synergy deck, or at least a solid 50% synergy.

Any thoughts on the premise? Synergies you'd pick instead of the ones I've chosen? Commanders you think I should include/avoid? Any feedback would be great - once I get home I'll only have a couple days to put this together before we start drafting it, so input at this stage would be a big time-saver once I sit down to build.
Last edited by DirkGently 4 years ago, edited 6 times in total.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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cryogen
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Post by cryogen » 4 years ago

4 life seems a little fast and one drops and two drops will probably get drafted pretty high. :p


How many players do you plan one drafting at one time? My cube can support 12 people at once, and I usually do half that, so roughly half my cube doesn't even get seen. Point being, if you are going to be narrow in your themes then you want to really make sure that even when all the cards aren't seen you can still feel like you're drafting *some* synergies and not just a hot mess of on color cards.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

Rofl, fixed the life total.

I'm hoping to get 8 - 6 is usually my lower limit for draft, below that I usually do sealed for my cubes.

8 players means 40 packs, so theoretically with an as-fan of 1 per synergy, as long as you aren't fighting over that synergy (and the cards aren't good enough that people take them who aren't doing that synergy) then you could end up with 40 of them, which would probably be 100% synergy cards. Obviously that's pretty unlikely but if you can get even 20 synergy cards that would still be pretty awesome imo. It's also a lot lower of a barrier here to "do a synergy deck" because you've probably got a commander who's synergizing and you always have access to them, unlike in a normal draft set.

Obviously with sealed it's a lot harder, but if you've got 10 packs (seems reasonable? double the draft format?) then you've got ~10 synergy cards, but since you get to pick the thing you've got the most of you'll probably have like 15 if you want to. Still might be a little light on that front but draft is really the primary focus anyway.

We'll see how I feel when I'm actually going through my cards - there might be some strats that are too narrow to fill out 70 cards - lifegain and mill are probably the two hardest ones. I wish I could have gone sac theme on BW but I couldn't think of a better one for BR. (self)Discard could maaaybe work (with anje, olivia, and neo chainer), but there's basically no 3-color commanders in BRx that would want to play any madness cards (from what I can see).

So I'll have about 40% non-synergy goodstuff, which means ~30 cards per person (although of course a decent number of those will be lands). That presumably means that you're playing it a little risky if you don't do a synergistic deck, which is probably what I want, although as long as there aren't too many goodstuff decks you should probably be able to get there (plus some synergy cards will almost certain be good enough to run without synergies). The biggest risk I think is if you go all-in on a synergy that's getting cut, in which case you're likely to end up in trouble, but with the goodstuff cards you'll still probably have a functional-ish deck.

I think really I'll probably have to wait and see. But I'm nervous if I go lower with the synergy cards, it'll make people more likely to just build goodstuff and ignore any synergy cards that aren't commonly run in commander.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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cryogen
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Post by cryogen » 4 years ago

Keep in mind you'll also have overlap in not only commanders that fight over the same cards but also themes that do. For instance Chainer wants to be in a UB mill deck or a RB discard deck or a GB reanimator deck. Hopefully this will be more limited to the staple cards, but in my cube I tried to only add "theme" cards if they would support multiple generals or themes. After all, it doesn't do any good do see Curiosity pass by in the draft if you're aren't running Niv-Mizzet. Ditto with two card combos unless both cards are individually good (Kikiscripts is in my cube but not Trike to combo with Mike).

Really, the correct answer is to build it how you think it will theoretically work, then start jamming some games and try to objectively look at what happens. Also, ask your friends beforehand that you'll want feedback about X, Y, and Z so they will pay attention and give their thoughts.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

cryogen wrote:
4 years ago
Keep in mind you'll also have overlap in not only commanders that fight over the same cards but also themes that do. For instance Chainer wants to be in a UB mill deck or a RB discard deck or a GB reanimator deck. Hopefully this will be more limited to the staple cards, but in my cube I tried to only add "theme" cards if they would support multiple generals or themes. After all, it doesn't do any good do see Curiosity pass by in the draft if you're aren't running Niv-Mizzet. Ditto with two card combos unless both cards are individually good (Kikiscripts is in my cube but not Trike to combo with Mike).

Really, the correct answer is to build it how you think it will theoretically work, then start jamming some games and try to objectively look at what happens. Also, ask your friends beforehand that you'll want feedback about X, Y, and Z so they will pay attention and give their thoughts.
Solid advice, thanks!

Cards like OG chainer are most likely to end up in the general goodstuff part of the pool because they're strong in many archetypes, and also just generally powerful even without any synergies. I'm going to try to keep every archetype equal in representation (at least at first) so sharing cards between archetypes gets kind of tricky. Partly because some archetypes are going to overlap a lot (like mill and dredge) and some are going to overlap very little (like blink and combat). If I've got 30 good cards that overlap between mill and dredge, but only 10 for blink and combat, does that mean I put in 10 more blink + 10 more combat cards? That evens out the total number of cards (and in a 10-man draft where everyone has a different archetype it would work out evenly) but there would be more dredge cards than combat cards, for example. Idk maybe I can make it even out in a more complicated way - like have blink and combat have more shared cards with other archetypes, and have fewer for mill and dredge. I'll probably need to actually spread out my cards to figure that one out.

Probably won't run anything like curiosity that's so keyed to one commander, considering how many are available. With ~40% of the commanders available to someone, and 6 per archetype, odds are someone will have a use for any given synergy card, though. Or at least, they could.

Agree about combos. I don't mind them in a cube format since they're hard to put together, but I want to avoid excessively narrow cards.

The archetype I'm most concerned about for sure is lifegain. I combed through my digital collection for lifegain synergies and only came away with 18 for white and a pitiful 5 for black (some of which are pretty awful cards). Probably missing a few that I'll see when I'm looking at the physical cards, but I'll probably have to go into life payment as a sort-of-lifegain-synergy to meet the quota. I think the best way to ensure that lifegain is useful in the lifegain deck is going to be to provide commanders that value lifegain themselves, though - so Kambal is out, and Karlov is in. He's a bit all-in on lifegain, but I think Kambal is likely to get played a goodstuff commander with a couple lifegain synergies, and I'd rather have a big payoff to justify going deep on lifegain.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

I built the cube in 3 days once I got back from vacation, and got the chance to test it out with a 6-man group (so 2 3-man games).

Had a few notes I wanted to record while I'm thinking about it.

-fixing behaves differently here than regular draft. I drafted 2-color and ended up with very little fixing. Partly because, in regular draft, you're incentivised to take fixing that's in at least 1 of your colours, so you can pick up off-colour bombs later and/or stay more open. In this case, though, you can't splash, so duals are useless unless you're in those colours. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. It does mean that 3c decks that need them tend to get them. But it also means 2c decks are almost pure basics. I think I should include more rainbow-esque lands so those who really want fixing can get it.

-on that note, I think golos might be a problem. It becomes a little too easy to hoover up all the fixing, as well as the spiciest bombs. Idk, maybe this is just my prejudice, but I really hate drafting against this sort of strat. Great fun for the perpetrator, not fun for anyone else. At least in 1v1 they're likely to be weak to aggro, but this is commander. So I might just ixnay 5c as an option.

-really thinking 30 life is probably the way to go. Just too hard to make aggro viable otherwise. Right now mill might be too strong lol.

-bolas citadel is on the watch list.

-god I am so nervous letting other people handle this cube lol.

-Removal concentration seemed ok. Maybe more counterspells.

-I played the single un-card for my commander, baron Von count. I think he might suck balls. I had lots of cards with multiple numbers and had no trouble getting cards with 1-5 in hand, but he dies once and you're so screwed. And he has that sen triplets effect where everyone assumes he's coming their way, so he eats removal aggressively.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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cryogen
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Post by cryogen » 4 years ago

Lol tell me about it. I have only drafted it with people I trust, but there was one time I did it at my LGS and someone I know decently enough but wouldn't vouch for in this situation saw us playing. I said sure and next thing you know, he had invited some random guy I don't know. Luckily, the guy was honest, but jeez that could have been bad.

Re: fixing - I can't remember if we discussed it in my thread, but I run a lot of fixing and duals. The "tap for any color" cards get drafted higher, and unless you get a sucky pack you can let dual lands pass you by the first round most times.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

I'm considering that maybe one way to fix a lot of the issues with the cube is to ignore color identity rules. It makes fixing work as normal, it prevents 5c from being overpowered and makes 2c commanders more viable. I'm hoping to draft the cube again this week before I move, so we might try that rule.

Also might cut life to 30 to improve aggro - RB has been consistently pretty weak.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

Just posted up the full cube list - I believe it's roughly 1000 cards, not including the commanders.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 4 years ago

If BR is consistently weak, maybe that's where I need to pitch in and power it up >_>

Appreciate the discussion all-in-all, it's very useful to apply to my cube, that I still haven't started yet because I caught the Modern bug.

edit: my preliminary hypothesis based on a quick scan, is that Rakdos is under powered here because the card set you've slotted in for these colours is not conducive to the strengths of it. There's a lot of key cards missing, but additionally, sacrifice is a lot better in Orzhov/Junk/Golgari than it is in Rakdos. I think this needs to take on a stax approach if you want to keep it as is, otherwise I think lowering life totals and adding more oomph cards - Price, Acidic Soil, Ankh/Zo-zu - and cards that keep you and others in the midgame where this colour combination shines most, is the best and easiest way to power it up.

Just the two cents of the Mardu guy.

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

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DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
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Post by DirkGently » 4 years ago

I'd certainly be game to move sac to BW, but unfortunately I can't think of any other coherent strategy/synergy for BR. Stax and group slug are fine for constructed, but I think drafting a good stax deck is going to be really hard, and a lot of those cards can be totally useless without a really focused plan, since they're usually symmetrical (focused plans not usually being the strong suit of limited decks).

Lowering life totals I do think is a step in the right direction. Obviously it'd be easy to make BR good simply by removing all the good stuff from other colors and replacing it with jankier options, but people always seem to get really pumped when they open sweet staples, especially those they maybe wouldn't buy for their own decks.

TBH I doubt it's a BR problem specifically, it's probably also true of RW, but no one has played RW yet lol. Not that I've done a ton of runs - so far I think I've fired the cube off 4 times?
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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