Urza - painting and grinding his foes to death (outdated list)

Theoric
Posts: 107
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Theoric » 4 years ago

Note: this thread is badly outdated so feel free to let it die. :)
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But what can he do?

When Urza, Lord High Artificer enters the battlefield, create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with "This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control."
This is occasionally used to block creatures, but more often it's tapped for mana using Urza's second ability. Alternatively, if you create infinite mana and have capsize in hand, you can create a massive token army by repeatedly bouncing and recasting Urza.

Tap an untapped artifact you control: Add u
Turning all your artifacts into mox sapphires is awesome, but even better is casting stax pieces and 'turning them off' so they don't effect you. It can also be used to turn off howling mine so it benefits only you. As soon as Urza hits the field, the deck starts flying because all your artifact permanents become mana sources in addition to their other abilities.

5: Shuffle your library, then exile the top card. Until end of turn, you may play that card without paying its mana cost.
This last ability is usually how the deck wins - once you have infinite mana, you can exile your library and cast whatever spells you need to win. This is usually done by casting Jace, Wielder of Mysteries and attempting to draw a card.


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Why should you play Urza?
  • The biggest reason is....because he's awesome.
  • And because he's been a prominent figure in Magic the Gathering novels for 20 years and he's FINALLY a creature card. Flavor-wise, it's a blast to play such an esteemed MTG character.
  • He's a top-tier commander. You only need a 2-card combo to win because Urza himself is a combo piece.
  • He has both stax and combo abilities, so you get the best of both worlds.
  • Unlike most generals, you don't need to wait a turn to use his abilities. He's deadly the moment he's on the battlefield.
  • He turns utility artifacts into mana sources, essentially doubling their power.
  • But mainly because he's a ton of fun to play. It's great to be able to use stax cards like trinisphere/winter orb/static orb and not only do they not slow you down, they accelerate you. As soon as Urza hits the field, the deck starts flying.



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You might like Urza if...
  • You like powerful decks.
  • You enjoy consistent decks.
  • You enjoy combo and/or stax decks.
  • You enjoy playing a top-tier commander.
  • You like decks that make you think.
  • You like drawing cards and tutoring.
You might dislike Urza if...
  • You prefer creature-heavy decks.
  • You can't afford the more expensive cards that really make this deck great (eg. power artifact and transmute artifact).
  • You dislike combo and/or stax decks.
  • Your playgroup disapproves of people playing top-tier decks.
  • You want a deck to play against casual players.
  • You can't handle playing archenemy.
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What alternative commanders are comparable to Urza?
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  • Teferi, Temporal Archmage is another powerful commander that often employs stax and combo elements like those typically found in Urza decklists. There's a powerful but complicated combo with Teferi and The Chain Veil that can win games, but I prefer Urza's simplicity and power. At 6cmc, Teferi is also more difficult to cast.
  • Arcum Dagsson is top-tier, or nearly so, and he's a commander I've played extensively. When paradox engine got banned, Arcum became much weaker whereas Urza was largely unaffected. I'd say Urza has the edge in terms of power level, and is much more fun to play. Arcum tends to sit there and do nothing until he either loses or has an 'oops I win' moment, neither of which is fun for some people. Arcum also requires a lot of card slots to be dedicated to mediocre artifact creatures and he's a bit of a glass cannon that tends to stall when met with removal he can't counter. Urza is better at rolling with punches.
  • Derevi, Empyrial Tactician is a powerful commander typically used in stax decks loaded with tax effects to slow down your opponents. It often leads to long, slow games where you're the archenemy because you're preventing people from playing spells.
  • Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain is another competitive commander that does well in a deck with a lot of artifacts and stax effects. Some people lean more toward storm than stax effects with her.
  • Daretti, Scrap Savant is another strong stax commander that's especially good at utilizing artifacts in the graveyard.
  • Azami, Lady of Scrolls is no stax commander but she is a monoblue general that's good at finding combos and godlike at drawing cards.
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Strengths
  • The deck isn't overly reliant on having Urza on the battlefield. There are many paths to victory.
  • It's a fast deck, and that speed is aided by stax pieces that slow your opponents.
  • Versatility. There are combo, control, and even aggro options for finishing your opponents.
  • Mana. Once Urza hits the field, everything generates mana.
  • Consistency - there's plenty of card draw and tutoring.
Weaknesses
  • Cards that destroy or nullify artifacts (like null rod and stony silence) can be hard to deal with if they get through.
  • Anything that takes control of Urza. There's a few cards in here that can get him back but it might take a while to draw or tutor for them.
  • Blue decks are generally good at countering spells but generally bad at dealing with problem permanents once they're already in play. This deck does have quite a few options for dealing with problem permanents though (all is dust, ugin, the spirit dragon, capsize, chain of vapor, and if it's a creature- pongify and rapid hybridization).
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URZA'S TOOLBOX

Commander - 1

Approximate Total Cost:

Budget Decklist

URZA'S TOOLBELT (budget decklist)
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URZA'S TOOLBELT
Approximate Total Cost:

This deck has two infinite mana combos (dramatic reversal + isochron scepter, grand architect + pili-pala) and one infinite card draw combo (future sight + sensei's divining top + etherium sculptor) and a TON of card draw to find the pieces you need.

The game plan is to make infinite mana, use it on Urza's last ability to exile your library, and cast Jace, Wielder of Mysteries. Or you could create infinite mana and capsize all of your opponents' permanents, as well as bouncing Urza and recasting him to create an army of tokens.



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This is the hardest section for me because there are so many fantastic cards that I want to use but can't find the room for. People have different playstyles and metas so if you play cards I don't - great! The info under this spoiler is based on my experience playing people in my LGS and playgroup. I'll also discuss many of the great cards that I'm not using.
Creatures
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Creatures I use
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Why do you use...?
Creatures I don't use
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But what about...?:
  • Sai, Master Thopterist - Yes, I know most Urza decks use this. And yes, I know it creates blockers that Urza can use for ramp and card draw. And yes, It combos with sensei's divining top and future sight to draw your deck. After extensive playtesting, I found that this card might be worthwhile if you draw it in your opening hand, but less so if you draw it in later stages of the game when most of your artifacts are already on the battlefield. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it - it's still great in this deck.
  • Spellskite - this card is awesome and I'd love to find room for it.
  • Etherium sculptor - this card is pseudo-ramp and combos with future sight and sensei's divining top. I used to use it and I might find room for it again one day.
  • Snapcaster mage - this card is great in any mono-blue deck.
  • Trophy mage - great card. Wish I had room for it.
  • Arcum Dagsson - another great card. You'll probably only use him once (on Urza's token) but that's usually enough to win the game.

    Any of these creatures are totally playable in this deck.
Lands
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Lands I use
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Why do you use...?
Lands I don't use
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But what about...?
  • The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale - this card is beyond financial reach of 99% of MTG players but it's good if you want an extra stax effect.
  • Darksteel citadel - I don't use this because I'm occasionally short of blue mana, plus I want vedalken shackles to be as effective as possible.
  • Gemstone caverns - this could be a bad draw or a great turn 0 play. Use at your own risk.
  • Strip mine - you're never wrong to put this in a deck. And it would be particularly nasty with rings of brighthearth since you could pay 2 and destroy 2 lands. I don't use it because at 29 lands I already feel the deck is thin on lands and I'm not sure it's worth it to give up one of my lands for an opponent's land. Plus I want all the u-producing lands I can get and as many islands as I can to make vedalken shackles more effective.
Aftifacts
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Artifacts I use
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Why do you use...?
  • Various mana rocks (sol ring, mana crypt, mox opal, mox diamond, etc) - I need accelerants like these to be able to cast Urza and other spells quickly.
  • Aether spellbomb - people usually won't waste removal on Urza if this is in play. And if you have Rings of Brighthearth, you could bounce 2 creatures or draw 2 cards. Plus you don't have to be afraid to use it for mana - you don't have to tap it to use its abilities.
  • Arcum's astrolabe - most of the Urza decks I see don't use this but I love it. It thins the deck, it ramps once Urza is on the field, and it fixes mana - which is nice considering a lot of the spells in this deck require uu or uuu and most of the mana rocks create colorless mana. It's a great first turn play and does a ton of work for one mana.
  • Everflowing chalice - A ramp spell that can be cast early or for extra value later on. Plus if you have voltaic key and rings of brighthearth in play, putting 4 counters on the chalice can net you infinite mana.
  • Grafdigger's cage - for one mana, it's tutorable by trinket mage and shuts down many of the most powerful CEDH decks.
  • Grindstone - combos nicely with painter's servant to mill someone's library. And if you have Jace, Wielder of Mysteries in play, you could mill yourself for the win.
  • Howling mine - This should be the first card you tap for mana when Urza is in play so you're the only one who benefits from it.
  • Isochron scepter - usually you'll imprint dramatic reversal on this and create infinite mana. Imprinting it with Narset's reversal can result in neat plays too. Or you could go the simple route and just put a counterspell on it.
  • Jeweled amulet - I love ramp spells that I can cast on the first turn. Plus it has great synergy with Urza because you don't need a counter on it to use it.
  • Mind stone - I like 2cmc ramp cards that can be used for mana the turn they come out. The ability to sack it for a card is nice, but I might swap this for fellwar stone since that can usually create blue.
  • Painter's servant - is backbreaking when paired with Grindstone, All is dust, or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon.
  • Rings of Brighthearth - does it all. It makes infinite mana with basalt monolith. If you pay 2, you can make a planeswalker's ability happen twice, you can make a fetchland grab 2 islands, make strip mine destroy 2 lands, make buried ruin fetch 2 artifacts, make inventors' fair fetch 2 artifacts, make isochron scepter cast 2 spells, grab an extra card with sensei's divining top (which will usually be the top itself), make aether spellbomb function twice, or (perhaps my favorite) enable vedalken shackles to steal 2 creatures.
  • Sapphire medallion - Reduces the casting cost of Urza, various mages, various blue cards that tutor for artifacts, etc. Plus Urza can tap it for mana.
  • Static orb and Winter orb - are 2 of the most powerful cards in the deck since they'll only effect your opponents when Urza's in play.
  • Vedalken shackles - some people prefer legacy's allure to this. The allure is great because it doesn't require mana to activate and the creature remains under your control. The main problem about the allure is, it's hard to tutor for and it doesn't matter how good a card is if you can't get it. There's plenty of cards that will find me the shackles when I need it, it's colorless (points evil finger at mother of runes), it's re-useable (it's fun to repeatedly steal creatures and use them as blockers), and you can change your mind about which creature you want to steal. Also, you can use it right away, whereas with legacy's allure you generally have to wait a few turns before there's enough counters on it to steal the creature you want. Waiting sucks, especially with a combo deck.
Artifacts I don't use
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But what about...?
  • Aetherflux reservoir - This card is great once you have infinite mana, but by then the game is basically already over. I consider it a bit of a dead draw and win-more card.
  • CHEERIOS! (Urza's bauble, Mishra's bauble, Welding jar, etc) - these are all decent and you shouldn't hesitate to use them. Mishra's bauble is probably my favorite, and I'd like to find room for it sometime.
  • Codex Shredder - good card and I can see why people use it. If you have this in play and a dramatic reversal imprinted on an isochron scepter, you can mill your opponents' libraries. It can also be used to get back a vital card from the graveyard. There's enough wincons in the deck already though, and this one is stopped by decks with eldrazi.
  • Mox amber - If a ramp card is only useful once Urza is on the field, it's not worth it. Don't use this.
  • Mycosynth lattice - I had this in the deck for a while and it was decent. If I had Karn, the Great Creator in the deck I'd probably slot this in as another wincon, but I don't.
  • Thran dynamo - too hard to cast. I want to be able to cast ramp cards early.
  • Gilded lotus - too hard to cast.
  • Mystic forge - there's only a 1 in 4 chance that this will let you cast your top card. Admittedly, there's a lot of shuffling effects in this deck but I still don't feel it's good enough. It's great if you happen to have sensei's divining top and Sai, Master Thopterist in play though since it would let you draw your library.
  • Sky diamond and coldsteel heart - they're pretty good. I was using both for a while. Don't hesitate to use them.
  • Tangle wire - it's an amazing card in 1vs1 but in multiplayer EDH, I chose not to use it. For one - it's a bad political card. It's super annoying for everyone (including you) and people tend to forget the other threats at the table and focus all their hate on you. And it's hard to withstand that hate, especially when your own tangle wire is slowing you down. I prefer to stick to stax cards that only slow down your opponents.
  • Unwinding clock - decent card. I'd use it if Urza's ability allowed me to play the permanents/sorceries he exiles on other people's turns.
  • Voltaic key - great card. Maybe I'll make room for it one day. Plus it can make infinite mana with everflowing chalice (once you put 4 counters on it) and Rings of Brighthearth.
  • Walking ballista - Another dead draw, win-more card. The game will be over by the time it's relevant.
Instants
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Instants I use
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Why do you use...?
  • Arcane denial - It's often hard to find uu in a deck with so many mana rocks that make colorless, so a 1u counterspell is pretty enticing. And sure, getting one card while your opponent gets two hurts a little, but slowing them down and giving yourself a 1-card boost can be all it takes to win. Also, if you cast a cantrip (or any other instant) and counter it with arcane denial, you'll draw 3 cards next upkeep.
  • Brainstorm, fact or fiction, impulse - dig into your library to find you the card(s) you need.
  • Chain of vapor - gets rid of a threat for only u. Keep in mind that you'll often leave one artifact untapped (such as one of the orbs or a trinisphere), and you can tap that trinisphere (or whatever artifact you choose) to bounce a threat or one of your permanents to prevent it from getting destroyed.
  • Cyclonic rift - one of the most powerful blue spells ever made. The thought of an overloaded cyclonic rift strikes fear in the hearts of your opponents.
  • Dramatic reversal - this makes infinite mana with isochron scepter. I occasionally use it without the scepter, just to untap stuff.
  • Flusterstorm - only costs u and it counters most instants/sorceries. Great against storm decks.
  • Force of will, force of negation, pact of negation - for those times when you just don't have the mana you need to cast a counterspell.
  • Intuition - Casting this should result in you preventing a threat or getting you the card you need to win. Examples include tutoring for 3 counterspells or any 3 of the following: transmute artifact, reshape, whir of invention, or fabricate.
  • Mana drain - is probably the best counterspell ever printed.
  • Mental misstep - is great against your opponent's first turn sol ring or sensei's divining top. A lot of the creature removal that people might use on Urza costs 1 cmc as well.
  • Muddle the mixture - is amazing in this deck. It's almost always used to tutor for something with 2 cmc such as power artifact, grim monolith, isochron scepter, painter's servant, or dramatic reversal. It's so strong that I often use merchant scroll to fetch this just so I can transmute it for the combo piece I need.
  • Mystical tutor - finds you the card you need to win or just to survive. Common targets include dramatic reversal, transmute artifact, all is dust, cyclonic rift, pongify, or a counterspell.
  • Narset's reversal - is a very versatile card. If you imprint it on an isochron scepter, then you can cast an instant or sorcery and pay 2 to cast it twice and return the card to your hand. If you counter a spell and someone counters yours, you can cast narset's reversal to return your counterspell to your hand and counter the original spell you were targeting. Being able to copy other players' spells such as tooth and nail for only uu is pretty cool. I've used it to copy a transmute artifact, putting two artifacts into play (rings of brighthearth and basalt monolith), yet only sacking one artifact to do it and also keeping the transmute artifact card. It's a pretty amazing spell.
  • Pongify and rapid hybridization - great creature removal for only u.
  • Swan song - this card targets a few different types of spells for only u. The 2/2 bird it gives the person is trivial. If someone's alpha striking you with a big flying creature, you could also cast an instant and swan song it to give yourself a blocker (it might be worth it to kill Kaalia of the Vast sometimes.
  • Whir of invention - I love that this card is an instant. It's great to leave mana open, rendering your opponents too scared to cast any good spells, and then cheating in an artifact at the end of the previous player's turn.
Instants I don't use
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But what about...?
  • Paradoxical outcome - this is actually a great card. It protects permanents, 'untaps' things like mana crypt and mana vault, and provides a lot of card draw.
  • Spell swindle - this card costs 5 mana soooooo..... no. Just no.
  • Archmage's charm - the uuu can be tough sometimes in a deck with so many rocks that produce colorless mana. It's a pretty versatile card though so it's decent.
  • Disallow - powerful card but I just don't want to have to leave 3 mana open to use it.
  • Dig through time - I love how deep this spell digs but the casting cost is a bit much for my tastes. It's really good though.
  • Into the roil - Another good card. I wish I had room for it.
  • (various other counterspells) - because I don't have room for them.
Sorceries
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Sorceries I use
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Why do you use...?
  • All is dust - A lot of Urza decklists don't use this but it's strong in artifact decks. The colored permanents you control are usually stuff you don't really care about losing - the mages, gilded drake, etc. It'll kill Urza too (unless you bounce him) but the deck ramps quickly so you'll likely recover faster than your opponents. Also, if painter's servant is in play, this card will wipe the board so you'll have a big advantage if you float enough mana to cast permanents afterward.
  • Fabricate - an excellent artifact tutor.
  • Gitaxian probe - it's a free spell that thins your deck and lets you know if it's safe to tap out for the combo win. And it alerts you of potential threats.
  • Merchant scroll - always finds me what I need. Surprisingly, I usually use it to get muddle the mixture so I can transmute that for a combo piece.
  • Ponder - it digs for a card and shuffles if it's not there. Not bad for a cantrip.
  • Preordain - scrying away the cards you don't need makes this a great cantrip.
  • Reshape - it's not as good as transmute artifact but being able to cheat an artifact into play is powerful. My favorite card to reshape is a tapped mana vault.
  • Transmute artifact - this card is incredible. Cheating in the artifact you need to combo out will likely win you the game.
Sorceries I don't use
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But what about...?
  • Time Spiral - cool card but I feel it benefits my opponents too much.
  • Timetwister - I feel this benefits my opponents too much too.
  • Windfall - You guessed it - benefits my opponents too much.
  • Echo of eons - By now you can probably guess why I don't use this.
Planeswalkers
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Planeswalkers I use
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Planeswalkers I don't use
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But what about...?
  • Karn, the Great Creator - A great card in duel commander where you start with 20 life and the deck is designed to beat down your opponents with aggro creatures, but in multiplayer commander I feel it isn't worth it. The top ability is cool but I don't want to stuff every stax piece I can in this deck because it'll be archenemy every game and people won't want to play against you. If I ran mycosynth lattice then I'd run this as well for another wincon, but I don't.
  • Jace, the Mind Sculptor - this card is awesome and I'm trying to make room for it.
Enchantments
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Enchantments I use
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Why do you use...?
  • Back to basics - this card usually stops multicolor decks in their tracks. There's very few lands in this deck that are effected by this (keep in mind that fetch lands count as islands) so it's almost guaranteed to hurt your opponents more than it hurts you.
  • Future sight - is awesome in this deck. I didn't include it for a while because of the casting cost and I'm still not 100% sure it should be in here, but it sure is powerful when it lands. When combined with sensei's divining top, it equals 1, draw a card, and if you have either a Sai, Master Thopterist or etherium sculptor on the field, you can draw your library for free.
  • Power artifact - makes infinite mana on basalt monolith or grim monolith. It also works with mana vault during your upkeep, which is a bit risky, but it would allow you to exile most of your library with Urza and cast it during your main phase.
Enchantments I don't use
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But what about...?
  • Legacy's allure - I like vedalken shackles better. Mostly because it's really hard to find this when you need it and you usually have to wait a few turns for this to have enough counters on it to be useful.
  • Trail of Evidence - this doesn't do enough to excite me.
  • Copy artifact - From what I've read in other Urza primers is people typically use this to copy isochron scepter. In my opinion it doesn't do enough.
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My philosophy on EDH

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In my opinion, the best way to win in EDH is to forget about winning and just have a good time.

Lol, just kidding. Let's talk about how to crush your opponents and destroy their will to live. ;)

Players generally don't mind losing a game, but they hate it when they can't play a game. Stax cards prevent people from playing so If I filled this deck with stax cards like tangle wire, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Karn, the Great Creator, etc, it might be a stronger deck but it would lose more because people would be targeting you more. It's hard to win at archenemy, especially if your own stax pieces are impeding your ability to defend yourself. So I don't want a ton of stax pieces but I would like a few, especially the ones that can be 'turned off' when Urza taps them for mana.

Now let's move on to strategy.


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Strategy

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What you're usually aiming for is generating infinite mana, using it on Urza's last ability, and casting something to win the game. A good backup plan, especially useful if Urza is stolen or rendered useless (such as by Linvala, keeper of silence), is to use painter's servant and grindstone to mill an opponent's library. Another option is to mill yourself and use Jace, Wielder of Mysteries to win. Another option is to crush your opponents with board control - with painter's servant and Ugin, the spirit dragon in play, you can remove 0 counters each turn from Ugin and exile everyone's lands. Since there's so many mana rocks in this deck, especially with Urza in play, this should render your opponents helpless while leaving you still able to cast spells.

1) The mulligan: The first two things I look for are lands and ramp spells - it doesn't matter how good your hand is if you can't cast it. Ideally your opening hand would contain lands, ramp, countermagic, and combo pieces (or tutors to get them). Getting all that is unlikely but at the very least it should have at least a land or two, and either ramp or cantrips to find the mana sources you need. If you draw a handful of spells you can't cast any time soon, such as Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and all is dust, mulligan that away.

Another thing to take into consideration is how fast opposing decks are and whether or not they start the game before you (essentially putting them a turn ahead). Breakfast/hulk decks are the biggest concern - they're insanely fast and consistent since they're full of tutors and only require two mana to go off. Against decks like these you'll want your opening hand to have something that can stop their combo (like Grafdigger's cage or a counterspell). If it's a creature that enables the combo such as hermit druid or cephalid illusionist, then pongify and rapid hybridization are good options too. I will often keep a less than ideal hand if it has what I need to slow down my opponents - such as being able to steal a key creature with gilded drake or vedalken shackles. Trinisphere is another card that can greatly interfere with your opponents' gameplan.

2) Early Game (Turns 1-2): I typically spend the first couple turns casting cantrips, countering threats, and getting as many mana rocks and artifacts on the battlefield as I can. I always cast gitaxian probe if I have it - this should tell you if you can get away with casting Urza right away or if you should hold off and leave mana open to cast a counterspell. If you're playing against any fast cEDH decks that are dependent on a key creature (such as their general or a combo creature like hermit druid), this is the perfect time to steal or destroy it. Assess your opponents and watch for threats - did the combo player cast a tutor? Is the blue player leaving islands untapped?

This is also a good time to work toward assembling your winning combo. If you have an isochron scepter or dramatic reversal in hand, do you have a spell that will find the other one? What about rings of brighthearth and basalt monolith, or painter's servant and grindstone, or grim monolith and power artifact?

If a combo win is not yet in sight, you could switch gears and focus on board control. Winter orb and static orb can slow your opponents to a crawl, and playing howling mine and tapping it for mana each turn means drawing twice as much as everyone else.

3) Mid Game (Turns 2-3): The goal here is to find the cards you need to create infinite mana and/or establish board control. Don't be in a hurry to cast Urza as soon as you can - he's the kind of spell that people use their removal for. It's often better to establish some board control by laying down a few artifacts that will provide you with more mana once Urza hits the field. This also baits people into casting spells and using up their removal on each other.

If you have enough mana to cast Urza and a stax piece, this is a good time to do it. And keep in mind that the best time to cast a winter orb or static orb is when people are already tapped out. If I'm desperate to slow someone down I might drop a winter orb or static orb before I have Urza in play.

One card that deserves special mention is mana drain. The ability to ruin one player's gameplan and use the mana from it to fuel your own is gamebreaking. Skilled opponents might notice your untapped islands and hold off on casting anything or cast something less important though. But even if they do, they're being slowed down. It's often worth it to counter a less crucial spell just for the mana boost.
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4) Late Game (Turns 4+): The deck wins on turn 3 sometimes but you will usually win on turn 4 or later. The goal here is to generate infinite mana, cast Urza, and exile your library. Ideally, you should do all that in the same turn but casting Urza and slowing your opponents with stax permanents for a couple rounds is fine too. Don't be reckless - if you cast isochron scepter imprinted with dramatic reversal and can't win with it right away, there's little chance it will still be there when you start your next turn. And don't pass your turn with an untapped howling mine - that should always be the first card you tap for mana.

Once you exile your library and cast Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, there'll be plenty of counterspells in exile you can use to force the spell through. Alternatively, you could use painter's servant + grindstone to mill an opponent (or yourself, if you have Jace on the battlefield).

Plan A is winning via combo, but there's an equally viable plan B - board control. All is dust and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon will send your opponents back to the Stone Age, and leave you largely unaffected. Your permanents are usually colorless, aside from a mage or two that you don't care about losing. One tactic is to hold off on casting Urza, giving your opponents time to spew their hands onto the battlefield, and then destroying it all in one fell swoop with all is dust or Ugin. These spells are far more vicious if painter's servant is in play, and you can prevent your opponents from ever getting more than one land by removing 0 counters from Ugin, the Spirit Dragon each turn. And sure, all is dust and painter's servant will clear off your permanents too, but if you float enough mana to cast things afterward (especially if it's Urza), you'll have the advantage.

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Combos and synergies

There's a lot of combos and synergies so I'll keep this as brief as possible
  • Urza + winter orb/static orb = you tap them at the end of the previous player's turn so they don't effect you.
  • Urza + howling mine = you tap this for mana during your turn so it effects only you.
  • Painter's servant and grindstone = mill someone's entire library. (note: this won't work on people that run certain eldrazi)
  • Painter's servant + grindstone + Jace, Wielder of Mysteries = mill yourself and use Jace's 'draw a card' ability to win.
  • Painter's servant and all is dust = sacrifice all permanents. It's best if you can float mana to cast things afterward so you're the only one with anything in play.
  • Painter's servant and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon = exile permanents or remove 0 counters each turn to keep exiling everyone's lands. Bonus points if stax pieces are in play.
  • Isochron scepter + dramatic reversal + mana rocks = This is the easiest and likely the most common way you'll create infinite mana.
  • Isochron scepter + narset's reversal are amazing together. You can cast an instant or sorcery, pay 2 to copy it, and you get the spell card back in your hand. Or you can copy another player's spell.
  • Power artifact + grim monolith/basalt monolith/mana vault = infinite mana (*Note: mana vault can only be untapped during your upkeep. Also, with Urza in play, don't forget that infinite colorless mana can be turned into infinite blue mana).
  • Rings of brighthearth + basalt monolith = infinite mana plus doubling things like planeswalker abilities, fetch lands, etc.
  • Rings of brighthearth + basalt monolith + sensei's divining top = draw your deck.
  • Future sight + sensei's divining top = 1, draw a card.
  • Future sight + sensei's divining top + Sai, Master Thopterist or etherium sculptor =0, draw a card.*
  • Transmute artifact + narset's reversal = put 2 artifacts in play. Even though you're casting transmute artifact twice, the card goes back to your hand and you only have to sacrifice one artifact. Which means you can put 2 artifacts in play (such as rings of brighthearth and basalt monolith, or painter's servant and grindstone) which usually results in you winning the game.

    The main goal is to get infinite mana which you'll then use with Urza to exile your library and cast Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, then use it to draw a card = win. If anyone tries to counter it you'll have ~10 counterspells in exile to choose from. Or you can cast capsize a million times (note: once you have infinite colorless mana, you can use Urza's ability to turn it into blue mana via a monolith or mana vault).
    How does Urza turn colorless mana into blue mana?
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    Once you have infinite colorless in your mana pool, you can use Urza to tap grim monolith or basalt monolith (or mana vault if it's during your upkeep) for u, and then use colorless mana to untap it. Repeat this process to create all the blue mana you want.

    Keep in mind that if you put power artifact on mana vault (which is risky and I don't recommend it) and Urza is in play, you can create infinite blue mana, you could use that mana to capsize all your opponents' permanents and exile most of your library with Urza (not all of it though, or you'll die on your draw step) and cast those spells later.

    *Note: I included some combos/synergies related to commonly used cards that aren't in my decklist, just in case you play them.
    How do the Rings of Brighthearth combos work?
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    Rings of Brighthearth can't copy mana abilities but it can copy the untap ability of the Monolith.
    For this combo to go infinite you need 2 in your pool and an untapped Basalt Monolith.
    • Tap Basalt Monolith for 3.
    • Spend 3 to untap the Monolith, maintain priority and use the 2 to copy the untap ability with Rings.
    • Let the copy trigger and before the original untap resolves, tap it for 3.
    The untap resolves and you have 3 in your pool where you originally had 2.

    When you have infinite mana and rings of brighthearth in play, you can get infinite card draw with Sensei's Divining Top by doing the following:
    Tap the top and put the 'draw a card' ability on the stack.
    Pay 2 to copy the top's activated 'draw a card' ability.
    The copied ability resolves first, resulting in drawing a card and putting the top on top of the library.
    The original ability resolves next, resulting in drawing another card (the top itself).
    After that you recast the top and repeat the previous steps.

    If you use voltaic key, there's also an infinite mana combo using voltaic key, everflowing chalice, and rings of brighthearth.
    Pay 8 to put 4 counters on everflowing chalice. (That's a lot, I know)
    Tap the chalice for 4, pay 1 to untap the chalice with the key, and pay 2 to copy the untap ability, targeting the voltaic key.
    Each time you do this it gives you 1.
    .


"Image"


On June 14, 2019, Urza, Lord High Artificer was unleashed on the world.
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Last edited by Theoric 4 years ago, edited 9 times in total.

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 4 years ago

While I appreciate this list in theory, there are several decks that I regularly play against that play Eldrazi titans mainboard that completely invalidate the Painter's Grindstone combo. Shuffle Hulk and Gitrog combo to be specific, which I assume make up a fairly large portion of any cEDH meta. What are your thoughts on this?

Otherwise, I think the synergies with Painter's Servant are worth exploring, particularly the Ugin synergies. Ugin is already a decent wrath effect by itself and works overtime. Exiling every permanent under 3 CMC would be backbreaking against opponents while also leaving a resolved Urza free to kill people with a Construct.

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Post by Theoric » 4 years ago

Painter's grindstone works great on a majority of decks and is useless against a minority of decks. If someone's playing gitrog or tymna/thrasios, don't use it. But even decks that abuse the graveyard won't always appreciate having it shuffled into their library.

In any case, grindstone is a tiny part of this deck. When one card doesn't work against your opponents, choose another. And even when it's useless, it's useful - paying 1 colorless for something that taps for 1 blue mana is so worth it.

An extra wincon can't hurt. Perhaps I should take out jace, the mind sculptor and add jace, wielder of mysteries. Thoughts?

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Post by benjameenbear » 4 years ago

I like that idea a lot more, personally. It gives you a totally different angle for the Painter Grindstone combo, and one that people may not expect.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that this is probably the best strategy for Painter Grindstone. Good idea!

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Post by Theoric » 4 years ago

I entered a little commander tournament at the LGS yesterday and I definitely love Jace, Wielder of Mysteries. It draws cards and provides the wincon - awesome. Plus even the foil version of it is cheap. I think I could have beat the table with it on turn 3, but I did it on turn 4 instead so I'd have counterspell backup. I'll add a pic of the card since the card link is useless to those of us who can't read Japanese (ie, nearly everyone on earth). I'll edit the link in the decklist too.
Image

I also don't see what the big deal is with timetwister. It's not worth it to spend thousands on that card. /my opinion
benjameenbear wrote:
4 years ago
Ugin is already a decent wrath effect by itself and works overtime. Exiling every permanent under 3 CMC would be backbreaking against opponents while also leaving a resolved Urza free to kill people with a Construct.
Don't forget that the construct would be exiled as well. But you're right - getting rid of everyone's lands and 0-3 CMC permanents would be devastating to most decks but this one should recover quickly.

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Post by FireStorm4056 » 4 years ago

Eldrazi do not completely invalidate Grindstone combos. You will mill the entire library before the shuffle effect resolves, which you can then respond to with instants and abilities (force an opponent to draw a card before shuffle resolves). It needs to be built around, but means that Grindstone isn't turned off completely by Eldrazi.

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Post by Theoric » 4 years ago

Another cool thing about grindstone/servant and jace, wielder of mysteries is you can mill yourself for the win. 😃

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Post by benjameenbear » 4 years ago

FireStorm4056 wrote:
4 years ago
Eldrazi do not completely invalidate Grindstone combos. You will mill the entire library before the shuffle effect resolves, which you can then respond to with instants and abilities (force an opponent to draw a card before shuffle resolves). It needs to be built around, but means that Grindstone isn't turned off completely by Eldrazi.
Good point. I don't know of any instant speed "Target Player draws a card" so that you can complete the mill out though.
Theoric wrote:
4 years ago
Another cool thing about grindstone/servant and jace, wielder of mysteries is you can mill yourself for the win. 😃
That's exactly what I was thinking and is probably the best use of Painter's Grindstone. Sure, targeting your opponents is effective, but being able to just win with Jace, Wielder of Mysteries or Lab Man seems much more effective.

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Post by Theoric » 4 years ago

It'd almost be worth it to include tale's end to stifle shuffle effects like those eldrazi (as well as counterspelling commanders and stuff).

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Post by FireStorm4056 » 4 years ago

benjameenbear wrote:
4 years ago
Good point. I don't know of any instant speed "Target Player draws a card" so that you can complete the mill out though.
There are many with varying costs and tradeoffs. To name a few:
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Words of Wisdom, Standstill (break it yourself), Memory Jar, Magus of the Jar, Vision Skeins, Blue Sun's Zenith, Stroke of Genius

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Post by benjameenbear » 4 years ago

Eh, but those cards aren't particularly well-suited for a cEDH decklist and are very narrow in their application and most of them require additional mana to activate. Typically, in executing a combo line, any mana that you have is spent in protecting your combo line and you are generally super constrained in mana availability once you've begun your combo line. So anything requiring additional mana to activate in response to the Eldrazi shuffle trigger seems like a very niche, magical-christmas land scenario to me.

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Post by benjameenbear » 4 years ago

Hey comrade, I've been trying to find a big bomb kind of spell to play in the deck and I'm between Recurring Insight and Consecrated SPhinx. What's your opinion, [mention]Theoric[/mention]?

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Post by Theoric » 4 years ago

benjameenbear wrote:
4 years ago
Hey comrade, I've been trying to find a big bomb kind of spell to play in the deck and I'm between Recurring Insight and Consecrated SPhinx. What's your opinion, Theoric?
I'd go with recurring insight. Partly because in metas I've played, people clone or steal the sphinx so much that it's often more of a detriment than a benefit.

Note: this decklist is badly outdated.

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Post by benjameenbear » 4 years ago

[mention]Theoric[/mention] Looking forward to an updated list. I've been so out of it that I barely know what optimized lists are playing anymore.

Insight it is. I remember playing it years ago and it overperforming then, so I can't imagine that it's gotten any worse since.

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