Kaalia Stax & Aggro

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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

@Dumoko
I'm glad that my comment was helpful. Like @3drinks, I too share a passion for Kaalia and her power level. I intially created her because I was absolutely infuriated with a good friend's Animar, Soul of Elements list. It was fast, it was consistent, and I hated getting killed by Craterhoof Behemoth. It is still my least favorite card in all of EDH because of that Animar list, followed closely by Bane of Progress. I built Kaalia to absolutely obliterate the Animar deck, and it wildly succeeded. Kaalia was 10-3 when we kept track of games where Kaalia and Animar were at the same table, and I definitely gloated about it lol.

So the reason that I skimp on Board protection spells a la Boros Charm or Teferi's Protection is because the list, as I've built it, has very different play style. Which is important and very necessary, given the suite of Stax cards that I employ, but the general principle remains true in sharing advice with you, Dumoko.

You see, Kaalia is a known quantity with a deservedly fearsome reputation. A lot of people see her and their gut reaction is fear and "let's kill her on sight when it's convenient to do so, and let's make it convenient quickly" kind of mentality. They'll say they're not targeting you, but really they're hyper aware of Kaalia and will make plans to manage her impact by killing her or Wrathing the table (yes, Wrathing is the correct slang term for having mass removal options like Wrath of God, Damnation, etc.). So, what this means is that over time, rushing Kaalia out without the proper setup becomes a liability and hindrance to you in the long term because she's going to die so often.

This means, then, that in order to get maximal value out of Kaalia's trigger you need to have a favorable board state where Kaalia can come in swinging, right away, and survive for multiple turn cycles so that you can overwhelm your opponents in mana and board advantage. I've decided to create these favorable board states via Stax pieces; when your opponents cannot effectively utilize their mana sources then they're, by necessity, unable to remove Kaalia effectively. So, in lieu of adding Stax and MLD to your list, which I respect, I think you should perhaps evaluate your playstyle.

Rushing Kaalia is good and well, particularly when you have a clear window to do so in the early game, but I think that building Card Advantage engines, building a solid mana base, and answering threats of your opponent's with removal effects BEFORE casting Kaalia might be more effective for you. In the absence of your Kaalia, your opponents are more likely to spend their removal effects earlier and on different targets than your Commander. This means that, after you resolve a Mythos of Snapdax and you've created a lovely board state for yourself, you can now cast Kaalia and have a greater chance to utilizing her effectively since your opponents spent their removal on other things that needed an answer.

That's the great thing about Kaalia; the individual card quality in your list is higher than other decklists, generally speaking. This means that Kaalia, while an integral part of your core strategy of smashing face, is simply gasoline to the powerful flame that your deck already is. So, my suggestion is to try slowing down your deployment of Kaalia. It will leave your opponents guessing at what your plans are and will inevitably cause them to spend their removal effects on different targets which will protect your Kaalia without having to spend card slots in your decklist dedicated to protecting her.

TL;dr I don't personally play mass protection spells in my own decklist because my playstyle and suite of cards creates favorable board states for me without having to use dedicated slots to do so.

Since your opponent's strategy is to go Aggro early, then I would suggest looking at more mass removal effects of your own. If I recall, you're already playing Earthquake, so maybe looking at the newly reprinted Rolling Earthquake or Shatter the Sky as additional Wrath effects to control your opponent's board development could be a good idea.

Alright, so Angelic Arbiter. Here's my thoughts on it: unless you're playing in a truly Aggro environment, where people turn creatures sideways and attack EVERY turn cycle, the Arbiter simply doesn't do enough to slow down Combo decks (of which I primarily play against). Combo decks aren't seeking to attack with creatures, so they literally don't care about her effect. However, it sounds like your kitchen table DOES look for true Aggro strategies, so the Arbiter will certainly seem more valuable to you given your playgroup.

Reaper from the Abyss is a pretty decent card, actually. I think I cut it for a different Kaalia target and I personally haven't missed it but it's a great effect for tables where creatures die from blocks every turn. Go for it!

I really like Morbid Curiosity in Kaalia decks, since a lot of Kaalia targets have juicy CMC's for this card to shine, but if you feel you have enough Card Draw at any given point, roll without it. I include it because I really like the effect.

To perhaps elaborate on why Vilis, Broker of Blood is so good is because it turns a game action that happens super generically (especially in EDH) and adds a Necropotence type of effect. Do your opponents risk attacking you for 10+ damage and give you 10+ cards to deploy? That's a losing situation, especially if you're a removal heavy deck (which you are) because you can leverage those cards and in greater volume than your opponents. Vilis is a way for you to deter people from attacking you simply from his static ability alone; the ability to kill creatures is a plus, in my opinion. And when you're playing card effects that cause you to lose life... well, it's like literally like getting cards for free, without spending any mana whatsoever to get those cards. That's the power of Vilis. He allows you to draw cards for a game action that generally occurs FOR FREE. EDH, in the end, does become a game of resource advantage and Vilis allows you to reign supreme. I strongly suggest giving him a go and watch him. I guarantee that you will find him valuable, particularly since you're playing a Reanimator strategy.

Kaalia is a deck that is worth the investment, in my opinion. I've had her built since she first came out and I've never taken her apart in all that time. She's simply gotten better over time as new cards come out. So, investing in those $8+ cards will be worth your investment, comrade.

What are the specific decks you play against? I'd be happy to offer insights on how you can combat them directly if you'd like.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

I think we need more talk about Village Rites, not Morbid Curiosity.

What curiosity does is sacrifice a free body we worked hard to cheat in, and trade it for cards at sorcery speed. And that's good, but I think there's an opportunity cost and instead we'd rather respond to something to blank their answer and draw two cards instead. In a similar vein to why Cloudshift should be played over this. We're in Mardu, we're not hurting for large draw spells. Hell, this is 2020 and we have multiple Necropotence effects (Greed, OG Erebos, that new enchantment that flips into a diamond valley esque effect). Rather than three mana and two cards to draw some cards on my turn, we could instant speed draw a grip with a myriad of other cards;
  • Moonlight Bargain once played in my list back in 2011. It's still a strong card that's not really out-muscled by today's standards.
  • Skeletal Scrying, I know I harp on this one a lot, but it too is also a strong card and often scales better than the aforementioned bargain.
  • Ofc there's Disciple of Bolas which does what morbid curiosity does but also gains life and leaves sac fodder behind.
  • And at the five slot, for sorcery speed you can get a guaranteed five cards without losing a piece of the board, but that also has the modal abilities of being an extra evasive threat (or both, in the really really late game).
  • We even get Damnable Pact as our very own Mind Spring that can be a finisher when it's down to one player.
Morbid Curiousity comes off like a weird hybrid amalgamation of all these, while not doing any of them as efficiently as the rest. So, let's have a discussion, because I so enjoyed the last one in my own primer, so let's add some to this primer. :grin:

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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

I'd love to! Healthy discussion is always good, and I'm always open to having my mind changed in regards to specific cards and card choices.

So, I'll try and address each of the salient points of your argument as I see them when it comes to considering other cards beyond Morbid Curiosity.
  • "Sacrificing a free body that we worked hard to cheat in" - well, if that free body has done its job (think Angel of Despair and other ETB effects) then that free body is simply an attacker or blocker, usually with a high CMC attached to it. Outside of the value that it generated on its initial ETB, those free bodies that I'm looking to sacrifice diminish in overall value in the long term and, when compared to the raw resources they could provide via Morbid Curiosity after doing their initial job. Village Rites is a decent substitute, but I like that Curiosity scales with the overall power of the card which, by necessity, Kaalia encourages. Rites is a nice, instant-speed way to blank removal and get more cards but the raw power of Curiosity at its mana cost is very appealing to me.
  • "We're in Mardu, we're not hurting for large draw spells" (lists example spells) - I agree with this general observation. If Curiosity was an instant, I think this argument would essentially be irrelevant since the Curiosity would be a better Rites effect. But, if we look at the relative draw power and CMC of Curiosity vs. some of the big draw spells, I see a pattern emerge. First, Curiosity generates immediate cards upon resolution, at the cost of a creature. In comparison to Greed or Erebos, these cards DO generate Card Advantage, but the same Card Advantage is spread out over multiple turns and mana. In my experience, Kaalia operates best in the pole position at the table, dictating the pace of the game. Being able to have raw, burst Card Draw effects enhances her core strategy, and the CMC of each of those respective enchantments along with their life costs is not small thing. I like the idea of Arguel's Blood Fast // Temple of Aclazotz though, great idea! Second, CMC considerations. This deck is tuned for cEDH style of play, where CMC considerations are extremely important because the lower your CMC the larger your impact in a game. I cannot think of another 3 CMC spell that generates the same one-sided explosive amount of Card Draw as the Curiosity can generate. Wheel of Fortune is probably the closest analogue I can think of, and that spell is symmetric for my opponents. So while Moonlight Bargain is instant speed and draws more cards more consistently than Curiosity, I think that the raw power of Curiosity at its CMC cost edges it out in my mind. Skeletal Scrying is another great consideration that I constantly forget about, so thanks for bringing this one up.


Dark Confidant is coming back to the Primer to augment the Card Draw. I can't remember why I took it out, but I was playing it in my Golos ETB spam deck and totally remembered how powerful it is. I'll be tweaking my list accordingly.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Right, if it were an instant..........

If 'if' was a fifth we'd all be drunk.

But it's not. And at three and sorcery speed, and needing another piece to make it good, I suspect it's got a bit of confirmation bias clouding your judgment. Of course it looks good when killing ETB creatures but what about the times it sat there while you didn't have a threat in hand? Or a threat considered disposable? I suspect for the same three mana, you get a more stable [albeit less swingy] effect out of Painful Truths. Or, out of the aforementioned Village Rites as a response. Three for three cards is still a good, competitive rate, and is worth the times M.C. isn't a live card. You just have to rein in your greed - which, we're playing Kaalia, we're greedy enough. Let's not tempt fate.

I really don't understand why you'd ever cut Bob anyway, get that boy back in there. Which, hey, that's a wizard for the party mechanic. Kaalia is a cleric, there's half of that new tutour's reduction cost right there. :foil:

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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

I'm already playing Painful Truths in the list since it's pretty much a solid draw-3-for-3, as well as most of the 3 CMC card advantage engines available. The Card Draw/Advantage package that I'm going to be running for the time being (including Kaalia targets) will be:

I'm going to try out the Scrying instead of the Curiosity and see how it performs. I feel like I'll always have a decently stocked 'yard with various Fetches and Removal spells in my 'yard and it's instant speed capability should be welcome.

And I admit that confirmation bias could be a thing, but there have been very few games where the Curiosity is dead in hand. Even if Kaalia is the only target, that's still a draw-4 for 3 mana in the worst-case scenario. Experience certainly has demonstrated its utility repeatedly.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

I don't like harvester of souls or dragon mage much tbh. Well, harvester maybe is better in an aristocrats deck for sure but the other...idk man. Rather do the Hellkite tyrant + wishclaw talisman combo than mess around with repeatable wheels. especially with necro in the deck. Might even just do with Toil // Trouble even, that's how far I'd be reaching before i run the dragon wizard.

I guess what I'm getting at with M.C. is that yeah you can eat the commander with it sure but the tempo cost of that surely is too harsh. And there's certainly a space between "needs commander/threats on board" and "needs more draw" to where I couldn't feel comfortable enough with conditional draw.

Good on you for picking up skeletal scrying, can't imagine being disappointed by it. Card is just a solid curve filler. I used to place Kaalia in the yard just to exile it with scrying and use the replacement effect to put it back for an extra card even. Though I guess thats not necessary anymore.

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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

Necropotence is just one card in the deck and one that isn't even tutored for all that frequently. Triple black is a decent enough restriction in the mana base that Necro appearing is semi-frequent. Excluding a card from a deck because of a single card isn't enough to warrant its exclusion. Harvester of Souls is a decent draw engine because of how much removal this deck can output, so I imagine that it has a solid potential to draw a significant number of cards. Bloodgift Demon will be its replacement if that's not the case.

Dragon Mage has pulled its weight in replenishing my hand and restocking it enough times that, in my decklist, it's earned its slot. Repeatable Wheels are definitely dangerous, in that you replenish your opponent's hand into answers or potential combo pieces but it also acts as a form of disruption too. Constant Wheeling makes assembling A+B combos harder, because it's likely at the next turn cycle that whatever cards they have in hand will be in the graveyard. And combine it with Rest in Peace and Angel of Finality and there's a solid chance of disrupting an opponent's gameplan in a significant way.

The Mage is particularly good with the heavy Stax package that's in the deck. Being able to Wheel into more Stax pieces, and having the chance to cast them first before an opponent gets to deploy their fresh cards, has a likely chance of invalidating their freshly drawn cards. This deck operates from a Stax perspective, in that advancing a Stax heavy board is its true priority at any given point. Dragon Mage operates best when it can Wheel me into fresh cards and Wheeling my opponents into cards that are invalidated or neutered by the Stax heavy board state that's present. As someone who plays against this deck frequently, this has proven true many, many times. When's the most recent time that you played it yourself?

I'm still playing around with the Stax count in the deck, but this core strategy of Staxing first has been VERY successful for me. I'm liking Trinisphere, Grafdigger's Cage, and Rest in Peace as hate pieces again so I'll be re-evaluating the Stax package as I notice the frequency of certain strategies increasing. Underworld Breach is now one of the centerpieces of Combos in the cEDH realm, post-Flash, and I think the Primer needs to pivot in order to reflect this change.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

I haven't sleeved up mage in......oh gosh, it's been years. As many years as it's been since I touched a wheel of fortune easy. I think the definitive moment I put this card down was when I picked up Sire of Insanity (which is surely a stronger card).

I haven't played it in the most recent iteration of my primer however, and what you say is true - it's "okay" to draw each player into a fresh grip if you're using the new cards and they are not. That is a valid premise that I should contemplate, if I can get over the idea of "giving you cards is bad".

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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

Playing both types of effects is good imo, just for redundancy. I want the Wheel of Fortune and Mage to replenish me when I'm low on cards but I also want the oppressive power of Sire of Insanity too. And in the case where I don't have one or the other, I want to improve my chances of drawing into either effect.

I like the Mage because it gives me a free 7 cards in hand that I can utilize most effectively because of Kaalia's wonderful triggered ability. She lets me cheat on mana costs in so many ways, and squeezing a Wheel effect that I can then deploy before my opponents should be very useful, nevermind the fact that Wheeling can disrupt so many plans or previous tutor effects simultaneously. I think you might be potentially underestimating the power of draw-7's, particularly in a cEDH setting?

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

It's likely also much stronger in conjunction with artifact mana ad you chain one into another and simultaneously empty your hand, not unlike the windfall type of strategies. Ofc I'm on the complete opposite end of that spectrum with my preboarded approach but......

Idk. But, it did get a reprint at uncommon so even if I still don't like it, I'm out, what, $0.50? Perhaps it is more correct to just go in with smothering tithe and fast mana, and forget all the null rod effects...nah, I ain't ready to admit that, there's still enough room to create a change.

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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

Angel of Destiny is VERY cool and EXTREMELY easy to trigger with the various Kaalia targets in the deck. It's also another way to pad our life total for the various life draining effects that exist. And I don't think replacing the combat damage with lifelink for both players will terribly matter since Kaalia can output so much combat damage.

Or, it could terribly backfire. Either way, I'm looking forward to giving it a shot. It's cool art and the effect is unique enough that it opens up some legitimate alternate lines of winning for Kaalia in addition to Liliana's Contract.

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Post by Atraxian » 3 years ago

Angel of Destiny is indeed very cool and Kaalia is in the right colors to either deny your opponents' lifegain like Tainted Remedy, Erebos, God of the Dead, Archfiend of Despair or Tibalt, Rakish Instigator as well as payoffs for lifegain like Felidar Sovereign or even a way to win the table with Vizkopa Guildmage or the Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond combo.

Yet I think it would need such a deck overhaul to make it viable as a wincon that it would be more detrimental than anything else if you just put it into the 99 without support.

Also be careful that if you put Angel of Destiny onto the battlefield with Kaalia, it will not trigger at the end of the turn as it didn't attack a player, but was put onto the battlefield already attacking.

This said, I would love to play around with that card and make it work somehow, even if it might need a dedicated lifegain Kaalia deck 😋
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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

I don't think it needs a dedicated lifegain theme, frankly. There are enough extra combat step cards that exist that you can reliably trigger the Angel by getting even a single extra combat step with an average Kaalia field (average = Kaalia + 2 Kaalia targets). For example, Aggravated Assault or Aurelia, the Warleader easily slot into a core Kaalia list and will still allow the pilot to trigger the Angel's lifegain effect and the end of turn effect as well.

And yes, you're correct that Kaalia WON'T trigger the Angel of Destiny trigger as per the following rule: "508.3b An ability that reads "Whenever [a player or planeswalker] is attacked, . . ." triggers if one or more creatures are declared as attackers attacking that player or planeswalker. It won't trigger if a creature is put onto the battlefield attacking that player or planeswalker."

With that being said, I still think she deserves a solid testing because hard-casting her is a viable option, and she acts similarly to Master of Cruelties without the terrible "only-I-attack" clause. It's like she's a 1 turn clock for a player and you get to choose which player you want to assassinate if she survives, since Kaalia is able to output 15 life (via the Angel's lifegain trigger) via combat damage pretty easily. Heck, Kaalia + Goldnight Gisela + Angel of Destiny basically kills one player.

EDIT: And if you've somehow gained life, like maybe from Lyra Dawnbringer or something, and you're at 55+ life when you Boots up Angel of Destiny and swing with her, then you can still assassinate a player.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

They sure are making it harder and harder to resist these flameblast syndrome creatures. Being able to straight drop a player from the game in a combat is enticing surely.

I'm a bit more interested in the other avenue, with Taborax, Hope's Demise.



Being able to come down the turn before Kaalia means we cantrip if she's removed (which commanders are already less than enticing removal targets anyway, trading a finite resource [removal] for a non-finite one [commanders being recast]) and if she's not removed, then we win. The cantrip is such a big deal we don't even mind if we just have to recast her next turn. I think a lot of people are sleeping on this because it's not a flashy effect, but rather an incredible mechanical effect. These are the kinds of effects that actually win you the game, even though in the heat of the moment it's easy to see it's that one last combat swing that functionally won. Give some credit to the enabler that allowed the deck to play in such a way that the big combat turn was even possible in the first place.

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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

This is a pretty great set for Kaalia. Archon of Emeria is yet another EXCELLLENT Stax piece that I'll be auto-purchasing. The density of hate-bears is getting significant in the deck and I can't say that I'm mad at it, which makes certain cards like Costly Plunder and Morbid Curiosity be more effective. It helps Tymna be a better Card Advantage engine while also slowing down the tempo of the game drastically. On top of that, it replaces Eidolon of Rhetoric completely, which is great.

Oh, that's another point in favor of Morbid Curiosity that I entirely neglected to mention @3drinks. It helps me get rid of Stax pieces that might be negatively effecting me when the timing is right, say when I have an active Vilis/Razaketh/Kuro but have Cursed Totem in play. This is actually a super critical function of the card that I completely side-tracked during our discussion!

EDIT: And check out Roiling Vortex. Tax those Moxen and Crypts for huge damage! Shut off Dramatic Scepter! Underworld Breach + Lion's Eye Diamond? Lol! Omniscience your life away! Golos getting you down? How 'bout you lose 15 life for your 3 free spells?? This card is EXCELLENT as well.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

If it's sacrificing hate bears to turn them off, you're almost certainly better off with a High Market or Claws of Gix, rather than spending three and two cards for what is on average going to be a draw2 (card parity). On the whole, claws of gix especially is grossly under played across the board and enables way more than people give it credit for - but again, it's not flashy in the least so the I think overwhelming herd mentality of people look past it.

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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

I'd rather have the potential to get Card Parity via Morbid Curiosity when I need to remove an unneeded/detrimental Stax piece instead of no cards via High Market or Claws of Gix. I'm running a tight mana base as is, so adding in High Market (which has the lowest opportunity cost of between the two) is a tough squeeze. And since the core strategy doesn't benefit from individual cards that focus exclusively on sac'ing permanents, I'd rather "get greedy" and maximize synergy in the deck while still providing myself outs for Stax pieces I want to remove.

I also think that Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge is another strong card for consideration. At the worst, it's an instant speed draw 1 and its potential can be sculpting a more ideal hand and binning unnecessary/anti-synergistic cards to the bottom of the deck. I've been very impressed at these new cards for Kaalia, and think Wizards is doing a decent job in printing reasonable cards (for EDH, that is. Standard be damned).

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Yeah, I'm very happy at valakut awakening. Great way to get troublesome things like WGD out of our hand too. I don't think it's quite as efficient as nights whisper (what is lol?) but I can't imagine ever being sad to sleeve it up.

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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

Alright, I'll do a quick set review for what's been spoiled so far. I must say, that this set has made me ask some hard questions of specific cards in the deck, so I expect that I'll need to be updating the list accordingly.
  • Angel of Destiny - this is actually a card that I think is EXTREMELY powerful. While it does suffer from Flameblast Syndrome, the chance to be able to eliminate a player simply by attacking them is too powerful to ignore. It also adds in another element of lifegain for this deck, which is actually fairly welcome considering how liberal it is with its life total. I think that this card is going to get a slot in the deck.
  • Taborax, Hope's Demise - 3drinks mentioned the power of this card as a slow engine piece, I think it's definitely worth considering. There's also a few other Clerics in the deck (Tymna comes to mind), so it's not a totally dead draw engine without Kaalia.
  • Leyline Tyrant - could have been cool, but it has no real value to this deck since Kaalia already cheats on mana costs.
  • Archon of Emeria - a strict upgrade for Eidolon of Rhetoric. Immediate swap, no questions asked.
  • Coveted Prize - Kaalia is a Cleric, woo! And there's a fairly decent number of Wizards in the deck as well, so this card could actually be another Grim Tutor variant. At the very worst, it's another Tutor effect.
  • Roiling Vortex - ah, all those cheap mana rocks and cast-for-free cards now have a substantial cost associated with them. This card stops A LOT of combos in their tracks since so many of them rely on casting a 0-cost spell or casting a spell for free. The steady damage is also appreciated as well, so I'll be happy to try and squeeze room for this card in the deck somehow. The fact that it also covers the newly spoiled Angel of Destiny's trigger so nicely is another small point in its favor.
  • Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge - an efficient draw spell that allows us to cycle out unwanted/unneeded cards and draw some fresh ones instead. It's instant speed as well, so that helps us to sculpt our hand somewhat. And it can also be a land when your're absolutely desperate for a land drop, so I think this card is definitely finding some maindeck space.
  • Feed the Swarm - mono-Black enchantment removal. Finally.

Dreaden
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Post by Dreaden » 3 years ago

hello,

I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts regarding kaalia. I am also a longtime kaalia player and have been working on and off on my decklist for several years.

My decklist has definitely changed over the years.

I looked through the new card spoilers and I really don't see anything that great for kaalia. Other than maybe the new valakut card that doubles as a land.

I dont think this outclassed anything else in my list tbh. So I doubt I will be making any changes at this time.

My list focuses on getting worldgorget dragon combo out asap. It does have a few stax pieces but it is mostly a combo list.

Here is my list if anyone would like to have a look,

https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/09-07-20-kaalia/

Regards,

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

Frankly, it's a very tight list. Terror of the Peaks and Sunscorched Desert look to be your only outlets for WGD. Has that been sufficient for you in games?

I don't really have much to add here except that the focus of the deck is more on the combo elements and less about Kaalia's trigger, which is definitely a direction to take. Not the one I personally prefer, but it's a very streamlined list. Does mana screw happen to you often?

Dreaden
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Post by Dreaden » 3 years ago

Hello,

Thanks for your comments on my list, much appreciated.

The other outlet for worldgorger combo is dragon tempest. What I try and do is get kaalia out asap, preferably with haste. Once I attack I search for razaketh, sac either kaalia or another creature to search for kuldotha rebirth, sac an artifact in play to search for the desert, animte dead and entombe. Place worldgorger into graveyard, cast animate dead for inf damage. Optimally this can be done turn 4.. sometimes it takes a little longer. All of the tutors are in there in case I need to search for a particular response/combo piece if necessary.

I only need 4 mana to run the combo. I havent found lack of mana to be a problem, however it is possible to get a bad draw or mulligan.

I also have th ad nauseum/ angels grace combo to draw my entire deck if needed.

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

Yup, your list is definitely more combo-centric than mine. Without having played your list, it seems like the propensity for bad draws seems to be statistically relevant. How often are you mana-screwed or lacking in card draw (no disrespect)? I'm currently running 34 lands and even then I ship at least 2 hands in order to get the right spell/mana ratio.

The LED Breach combo is the only other card that looks suspect, but that's not even a terrible combo to run because Wheels are generically good and Breach is a fantastic way to muscle through opponents that may have countered your Stax/Kaalia targets. Since LED and WGD are strictly combo pieces in the deck I imagine that they would often be dead weight if you have them in hand at the wrong times, so maybe Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge would actually be a strong inclusion for your list?

Have you ever tried a pure Stax list for Kaalia? If so, what were your thoughts?

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 3 years ago

WOW. Opposition Agent is one of the most powerful Hate cards Wizards has printed in a LONG time. It's unbelievably good, especially in a cEDH setting. Get one while you can NOW.

Also, Liesa, Shroud of Dusk looks to be another very powerful Stax piece that synergizes nicely with Kaalia's ability. Shocking an opponent every time they cast a cantrip, mana dork, or card advantage piece will shorten the game significantly while also being a hard stop to certain combo chains (AdNaus + Breach combos).

This is a great set so far and I can't wait to see what else gets officially spoiled!

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Dumoko
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Post by Dumoko » 3 years ago

Are we gonna sit and pretend that Jeweled Lotus didn't happen? :D

Turn. One. Kaalia.
The previously technically impossible feat is now a reality.

How cool is that?

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