Unpopular Opinion: Is Boros cEDH Viable?

[victorsaur]

When people say that Boros is bad in commander, I believe that they imply an unspoken rule.

The most powerful Boros effects are implicitly banned.

• 1 Impending Disaster
• 1 Armageddon
• 1 Bend or Break
• 1 Cataclysm
• 1 Catastrophe
• 1 Epicenter
• 1 Global Ruin
• 1 Jokulhaups
• 1 Keldon Firebombers
• 1 Ravages of War
• 1 Thoughts of Ruin
• 1 Wildfire

Although I do not have cEDH experience, I have a hunch that if using these cards did not get players banned from groups, then decks could be built around them. Perhaps impulsive card draw could be effective when your opponents consistently need to rebuild their mana bases while you have no issue rebuilding yours.

• 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
• 1 Crucible of Worlds
• 1 Etali, Primal Storm
• 1 Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
• 1 Land Tax
• 1 Magmatic Channeler
• 1 Thawing Glaciers
• 1 Underworld Breach

It is what it is. I don't expect people to change their opinions on land destruction being socially acceptable. I think that to be fair to Red and White, instead of stating that Boros is no good (and assuming that I am correct in assuming that MLD would be effective in cEDH), we should at least acknowledge that Boros could be VERY GOOD if it was allowed to use its most powerful effects. By the same token, would Green be good without land ramp, Blue without counter-spells, or Black without tutors?

[darrenhabib]

This is a complicated topic so I will try and keep it to short points.

"cEDH" is a term used for the upper echelon of even competitive decks. There is no salt if you play the right group because it is no holds barred.
You can play as many Armageddon types effects as you want.
However cEDH decks normally have a lot of artifact mana and/or creature mana so destroying lands can often not be as back breaking as you'd imagine. Especially if you are playing Boros and your opponents have access to green and mana dorks.

When it comes to cEDH Boros has two problems. Firstly it is the two weakest colors in Commander. Here is the order I'd personally place colors.
1st Blue
2nd Green and Black. Green is better on it's own and Black is better when combined.
3rd Red
4th White

The other problem is actual Boros commanders to choose from.
Here is an pretty official list of cEDH Commanders. https://cedh-decklist-database.com/
There is only one Boros listed and that is Winota, Joiner of Forces and this deck is REALLY good.
However of note Feather, the Redeemed did use to be on this list but has been removed at some time. I'm guessing that it just didn't win that often.
It's not that it isn't a really good deck, it is just that it is up against a lot of decks that just win with quick combos.
The other thing in cEDH is that there are a lot of Wheel effects like Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune, Windfall, etc that do get played. With Feather you are trying to get card advantages over a number of turns, but often these Wheel effects just make that strategy not that great as you lose out on any value you might have been working for.
My point is that it is the strength of other decks that makes it hard for Boros to compete at the same level.

I get what you are saying that in general Commander Boros could be more effective if mass land destruction wasn't so frowned upon. This is true.
However when it comes to true competitive play it is just lacking a little bit still. It's getting there for sure, Wizards has been releasing Boros legendary creatures with card advantage to try and mitigate this gap.

[pokken]

Zirda, the Dawnwaker stax is probably the best boros CEDH deck I think, buddy of mine plays that and it's real good. It doesn't play any MLD though, just monolith combo stuff.

The thing about MLD and Boros is that if MLD wasn't stigmatized, Boros would be the worst or second worst color set to take advantage of it. MLD + Splendid Reclamation effects already make Naya far better, combined with Heroic Intervention, etc. Esper and Azorius with access to counterspells are generally going to be better, Jeskai is just better, etc.

In CEDH, MLD is mostly bad because non-land sources are so important; you can easily drop an MLD out and lose to mana dorks and a land drop.

[victorsaur]

Ah, right. It is true that cEDH uses many artifact lands. Perhaps I posted this in the wrong thread. Thank you both for sharing why MLD might not be useful in cEDH. Indeed, the spells are cast at sorcery speed, require a lot of mana, and might not even debilitate players.

I did not realize that cEDH is culturally a no-holds-barred format (this is nice to hear). Perhaps it is because the competitive generals I played against (Tymna and Thrasios, etc.) were using more casual decks.

Thanks. I suppose this post is partially due to my annoyance at the knowledge of salt against MLD in my previous playgroup.