Tasigur: A Tale of Lands, Graveyards, and Forks

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

AFR spoilers are out, and there are certainly some interesting options. The various mechanics (dungeons, dice rolling, and classes) don't have immediately obvious synergy with this deck, but there are some cards worth checking out. I do feel like the set is a bit powered down though.
  • Old Gnawbone is capable of generating piles of treasure, and can potentially act as a ritual if you have enough creatures to attack with when you play it. That said, this deck is somewhat creature-light, so probably a miss.
  • Acererak the Archlich is a sweet mana sink, capable of venturing into the dungeon repeatedly in exchange for mana. That said, Tasigur is a much easier mana sink to use.
  • Long Rest is mildly interesting as a recursion option, but generally outclassed by Seasons Past.
  • Asmodeus the Archfiend is a bit less efficient than Necropotence, but may be a good budget option.
  • Froghemoth is a sweet variant on Scavenging Ooze - it represents a lot of grave hate, while also growing into a large beater. It is weaker against combo due to not activating at instant speed though.
  • Gelatinous Cube is sort of cute, but outclassed by Hostage Taker.
  • Sphere of Annihilation is a sweet board wipe option. Not triggering until upkeep means it is probably too slow though.
  • Wandering Troubador is a way to repeatedly venture into the dungeon.
  • You Happen On a Glade isn't ramp, but it is instant speed and flexible - lands in the early game, recursion in the lategame.
  • Power Word Kill is a reasonable removal option, but it also misses a lot of high-value targets, so probably outclassed.
  • You Find a Cursed Idol could be good as a Naturalize variant, but sorcery speed means it's a pass.
  • Druid Class is a bit slow, but it does function as a budget Exploration at level 2. Not coming down on turn 1 means it loses a lot of power though.
  • Xanathar, Guild Kingpin is a sweet combination of Sen Triplets and Future Sight. It represents a bunch of card advantage... and sometimes just as relevant, it can act as a Silence effect so you can push a big X spell through countermagic. It does need to live until your upkeep to do anything though.
  • Volo, Guide to Monsters is a sweet way to Clone all your creature spells - this deck actually has a lot of creatures with weird typing. That said, Volo seems like he would prefer a deck with a higher creature count.
  • Gretchen Twitchwillow is a bit less powerful than Thrasios, Triton Hero, but should be a good budget option in the 99. Needing blue mana to activate means I'm not a big fan in this deck though.
  • Hive of the Eye Tyrant is mildly interesting as a Bojuka Bog variant, acting as repeatable grave hate on a land.
  • Lair of the Hydra is a sweet mana sink, turning excess mana into a big beater.
Overall, Xanathar is the card I'm most interested in testing for this deck - needing to live a full turn cycle means it may be too high-risk, but the reward if it lives is certainly significant. You Happen On a Glade and Froghemoth are the other cards I'd be most interested in testing, and Lair of the Hydra is nice option to have if you're running a land-tutoring package.

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Post by XamIllustration » 2 years ago

I thought Long Rest was a good for this deck, the only thing that kind of holding me back is the three green pips and the life reset...

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
AFR spoilers are out, and there are certainly some interesting options. The various mechanics (dungeons, dice rolling, and classes) don't have immediately obvious synergy with this deck, but there are some cards worth checking out. I do feel like the set is a bit powered down though.
  • Old Gnawbone is capable of generating piles of treasure, and can potentially act as a ritual if you have enough creatures to attack with when you play it. That said, this deck is somewhat creature-light, so probably a miss.
  • Acererak the Archlich is a sweet mana sink, capable of venturing into the dungeon repeatedly in exchange for mana. That said, Tasigur is a much easier mana sink to use.
  • Long Rest is mildly interesting as a recursion option, but generally outclassed by Seasons Past.
  • Asmodeus the Archfiend is a bit less efficient than Necropotence, but may be a good budget option.
  • Froghemoth is a sweet variant on Scavenging Ooze - it represents a lot of grave hate, while also growing into a large beater. It is weaker against combo due to not activating at instant speed though.
  • Gelatinous Cube is sort of cute, but outclassed by Hostage Taker.
  • Sphere of Annihilation is a sweet board wipe option. Not triggering until upkeep means it is probably too slow though.
  • Wandering Troubador is a way to repeatedly venture into the dungeon.
  • You Happen On a Glade isn't ramp, but it is instant speed and flexible - lands in the early game, recursion in the lategame.
  • Power Word Kill is a reasonable removal option, but it also misses a lot of high-value targets, so probably outclassed.
  • You Find a Cursed Idol could be good as a Naturalize variant, but sorcery speed means it's a pass.
  • Druid Class is a bit slow, but it does function as a budget Exploration at level 2. Not coming down on turn 1 means it loses a lot of power though.
  • Xanathar, Guild Kingpin is a sweet combination of Sen Triplets and Future Sight. It represents a bunch of card advantage... and sometimes just as relevant, it can act as a Silence effect so you can push a big X spell through countermagic. It does need to live until your upkeep to do anything though.
  • Volo, Guide to Monsters is a sweet way to Clone all your creature spells - this deck actually has a lot of creatures with weird typing. That said, Volo seems like he would prefer a deck with a higher creature count.
  • Gretchen Twitchwillow is a bit less powerful than Thrasios, Triton Hero, but should be a good budget option in the 99. Needing blue mana to activate means I'm not a big fan in this deck though.
  • Hive of the Eye Tyrant is mildly interesting as a Bojuka Bog variant, acting as repeatable grave hate on a land.
  • Lair of the Hydra is a sweet mana sink, turning excess mana into a big beater.
Overall, Xanathar is the card I'm most interested in testing for this deck - needing to live a full turn cycle means it may be too high-risk, but the reward if it lives is certainly significant. You Happen On a Glade and Froghemoth are the other cards I'd be most interested in testing, and Lair of the Hydra is nice option to have if you're running a land-tutoring package.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

XamIllustration wrote:
2 years ago
I thought Long Rest was a good for this deck, the only thing that kind of holding me back is the three green pips and the life reset...
To elaborate: I don't think Long Rest is a bad inclusion, I just think it's outclassed - Seasons Past does the same thing, but at a much more efficient cost. It also has a few random upsides - Seasons Past doesn't exile itself, which means you can use it as an extremely powerful recursion engine if you're running any tutors to fetch it (just recur the tutor with Seasons Past). It also doesn't target, which makes it better against grave hate - I've used Seasons Past to get around Ground Seal in the past, which is super satisfying.

If you're looking for a second big recursion effect, then Long Rest is worth consideration. Greenwarden of Murasa is the current slot for pulling back multiple cards, so could try swapping it out. I'm not sure how I feel about Long Rest in comparison to Praetor's Counsel though - would need to do some experimenting to determine which feels better. Long Rest has additional flexibility if you have to cast it for a smaller number, but the deck already has a fair number of small recursion effects (and I've hated casting Restock every time I've ever had to). The life reset is sweet when it happens... but I think it's going to be flavor text most of the time.

I'd run either of them before Wildest Dreams, at least. On the other hand, I've also been meaning to try out Reap for ages, so I would probably try that first.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Following up on AFR, we have the commander decks. Not a ton to slot in this deck - there isn't a ton of overlap between the precon themes and this deck - but there are a few options.
  • Bag of Tricks is an interesting alternative to Birthing Pod - it doesn't require sacrificing a creature, so you can run it in decks like this with a lower creature count. It's very feasible to just run a single 7/8-drop and tutor them out with it occasionally, and expect to hit a value creature most of the time. Not sure if there is a 1-drop I'd be interested in running to fill out the curve, but there are some options. Maybe Caustic Caterpillar?
  • Druid of Purification is a bigger Reclamation Sage effect. It can backfire if an opponent is being locked down by a hate piece or Oblivion Ring effect they want off the table, but most of the time it's a way to answer multiple problems. You always get at least one thing, so no real fail case either.
  • Extract Brain is... interesting. Probably a bit too niche, but it's a cool card.
  • Danse Macabre is mildly interesting as a mass edict // reanimation // theft effect. I think I prefer actual board wipes though.
  • Underdark Rift is a removal spell on a land, which is pretty strong. However, it exiles itself, so doesn't synergize with Life from the Loam effects.
  • Song of Inspiration is mildly interesting due to being instant speed, but only hitting permanent cards (and costing 5 mana) means I'm not a fan.
Overall, I'd say Druid of Purification is the only obvious include.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Idle thought prompted by Bag of Tricks: it would be very amusing to have a 7/8 drop package to tutor out. Conveniently, it's possible to chain into them off Tasigur using Eldritch Evolution and Neoform. Not necessarily a good idea to be running them in a creature-light deck, but they are theoretically good to get back with Tasigur (the first time, at least, before you run out of tutor targets... at which point you can delve them away, since Tasigur was sacrificed). Could also be an interesting package to aim for with a more all-in build with more self-mill / ways to delve out Tasigur quickly.

Hypothetical package: Nyxbloom Ancient and Archon of Cruelty would be my personal picks for the best targets, but they could be swapped out for something else. Terastodon, Woodfall Primus, Avenger of Zendikar, Sepulchral Primordial, and Koma, Cosmos Serpent all seem like they would be worth consideration.

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Post by XamIllustration » 2 years ago

Hi, have you made any changes to the deck after the new sets have been revealed.

Eager to see what new to the deck...

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

XamIllustration wrote:
2 years ago
Hi, have you made any changes to the deck after the new sets have been revealed.

Eager to see what new to the deck...
Unfortunately, no changes yet - I only play in paper, and things haven't quite finished opening up where I live. Hopefully will get a chance to play sometime soon though.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

As a brief update, my LGS still isn't going to be open for another month or so, but I was able to hunt down a playgroup and jam a few games today. New playgroup was significantly more casual than my LGS (which, itself, is significantly more cutthroat than the previous playgroup I built this deck for) - the first two games I played were 2v2v2 with multiple people piloting 60-card decks, as an example. Not particularly informative from a testing purpose, but certainly refreshing from a gameplay perspective.

Anyway, some thoughts:
  • I continue to support my thesis that including mono-blue cards in the deck would be too strong, largely because countermagic is really, really strong in control shells like this. The few counterspells I had were all very impactful, while enemy countermagic is one of the biggest weakpoints for this deck - stack interaction is much stronger when bigger spells are being slung around. Not that I saw much countermagic (or interaction in general) in the new playgroup, admittedly. Still, I did see some Reverberate effects being flung around.
  • Almost came close to milling out in one game, finishing with two cards left in deck. That said, if I had run out of cards, I would have still been able to loop Seasons Past, so I don't think that actually would have been an issue. I have yet to go infinite with Seasons Past + cantrip + a ritual (either Early Harvest or Rude Awakening), but it's a think I've had in the deck for ages - could have been fun to knock it off the bucket list.
  • Flash (from Alchemist's Refuge) is good. May be worth running more land tutors for it.
  • Deck did feel a little slow in terms of ramp - it's possible I should be running some more two-mana ramp. On the flip side, it's totally useless and needs to be delved away in the lategame, so....
  • May also be appropriate to run a bit more instant-speed interaction - almost lost due to an opponent casting Time Stop when I had no creatures out (leaving me dead on board), and would have been taken out if opponents decided to be a bit more cutthroat.
Anyway, still want to cycle through my other decks before I start planning changes for this one, but good to see that the deck still feels good. I think my first change will be to cut Death Cloud (almost entirely to reflect the more casual meta) and side in something more durdley instead, but we'll see.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Midnight Hunt spoilers out and, as usual, Innistrad brings some solid new graveyard-related cards.
  • Wrenn and Seven does everything this deck is interested in - gets lands to hand, ramps, makes beefy blockers (with reach!) and ultimates for a bunch of recursion. Looks quite strong.
  • Augur of Autumn is interesting, and looks like a solid upgrade over Courser of Kruphix - it doesn't reveal your draws, and doesn't die to random enchantment removal like Bane of Progress. That said, enabling coven is somewhat difficult in this deck.
  • Outland Liberator // Frenzied Trapbreaker is an interesting alternative to Reclamation Sage. This deck is capable of passing turn and just dumping mana into Tasigur activations, so it seems plausible to flip to night without too much trouble.
  • Dryad's Revival is an alright recursion spell. I suspect it is outclassed by Timeless Witness, but worth consideration.
  • Infernal Grasp is a very efficient removal spell with a manageable downside.
  • Slogurk, the Overslime is a very interesting alternative to Life from the Loam. I do think it needs more fetchlands than I currently have available though - unlike LftL, it doesn't have dredge, so it is much more difficult to recur. That said, it also doesn't take up a draw step, which is a pretty significant upgrade. Hmmm.... worth testing, at least.
  • Croaking Counterpart is very amusing. I don't know that I would want to copy my own creatures that often, but getting a useful ETB ability from an opponent sounds plausible, and flashback is always nice.
  • Diregraf Rebirth looks extremely interesting - I'm a huge fan of Unburial Rites, and this gives similar vibes. More expensive in a vacuum, but it can be a very strong followup to a board wipe (or Death Cloud).
  • Shipwreck Marsh is a solid piece of fixing.
Overall, Wrenn and Seven looks like the strongest inclusion. Slogurk could also be strong, but probably requires a bit of deck tweaking. Diregraf Rebirth also looks to be worth testing.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Planning to acquire a bunch of new singles in the near future, so testing a few old cards while I still have the chance.

Cuts: Adds: I historically haven't been running 1-2 mana ramp because my goal is to hit 10+ mana, which I don't think they help with. However, I have noticed myself wanting a little extra acceleration to hit my 3-4 mana ramp a turn faster, so trying out some cheaper ramp. The other cards are mostly me testing things out.

Update: I was able to play one game with the deck today, and the changes felt good. I was able to keep a 2 land + 3 mana ramp + 4 mana ramp hand due to one of my other cards being Sakura-Tribe Elder. The game definitely would have gone much worse without the 2-mana ramp, since I ended up missing a bunch of land drops.

Things were complicated by one of my opponents starting with a Leyline of the Void - I had to spend a turn blowing it up with Pernicious Deed, after which I stalled on 5 lands for a while. Fortunately, the game was slow enough that I was able to draw out of it. The big turning point came when I hit 8 lands and played Wilderness Reclamation. At the end of the turn of the opponent immediately before me, I used Alchemist's Refuge to flash out Rude Awakening into Mana Reflection, which let me untap with enough mana to start dominating the game with Tasigur activations.

Looking at the changes specifically in the context of this game, it would have been nice to have Courser of Kruphix available... but I did play Oracle of Mul Daya and flip zero lands off it, so a bit of a wash there... although on the flip side, it's possible I would have gotten some value if it lived longer, since it got hit by Lightning Bolt, which Courser dodges. Regrowth would have been great in the lategame, but wouldn't have done much to actually get me there.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Following up on Midnight Hunt, we also have the commander decks, which have a few interesting new cards.
  • Ghouls' Night Out is a very efficient reanimation spell, potentially giving four bodies for five mana. Decayed is a pretty significant downside though, since most of the creatures in this deck are on blocking duty.
  • Curse of Clinging Webs is an interesting hate card - it's a strong hate card against many creature / sacrifice-based strategies, and also produces spider tokens to block with.
  • Curse of the Restless Dead makes a lot of zombie tokens. Again, decayed is a significant downside.
  • Celebrate the Harvest looks strong for a more creature-based deck, and can represent a lot of ramp. Not amazing for this deck though.
Overall, I think Ghouls' Night Out is the one I would be most likely to test out in this deck, but I don't think any of the new cards will quite make the cut in my list.

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Post by Tyondai » 2 years ago

hi, great write up!

I am working on a casual tasigur myself. My first (and so far only) game was a fun 2 hour long game and, after winning it using IsoRev BeastShift, i thought to myself i needed to shift focus to an other theme.

So I retooled my deck to be more lands matter, but not landfall. When doing research i came across your post and got a lot of inspiration, thanks! :)

here's my list: https://archidekt.com/decks/1804340#Tasigur_Good_Stuff
Feel free to give some feedback! My manabase is still a bit under construction, might add fetches later.

some things i've done different:
- i kept my neoform/pod/evolution package: tasigur neoform is a classic cEDH tactic, but i like the idea of getting koma/avenger/nezahal out. I'm not activly tutoring for neoform and i'm sure i can also hard cast these cards.
- i added dakmor salvage. Without the eldrazi titan's to shuffle, it's impossible to go infinite, but underrealm lich can draw you many cards with gitrog out.
- raven's crime can turn lands in your hand into a powerfull discard engine. It's not pretty and should never be done just because you can, but sometimes someone deserves it ;) it also fuels gitrog and slogurk.
- constant mists is a repeatable spore frog that works well with gitrog/slogurk/titania
- I was surprised to not see witherbloom command in your list or even your strixhaven post. it's one of the most flexible strixhaven cards imo, and does all the things this deck wants to do: self mill, return lands, destroy stuff.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

@Tyondai - glad to be of help! I won't say that ramp-based Tasigur wins quite as efficiently as combo Tasigur, but if you want to overwhelm your opponents in the lategame by activating Tasigur 5+ times per turn and casting big X spells, this is the deck for you!
  • Yeah, Neoform has been on my shortlist of cards to test for ages - the main reason I haven't done so is just because I'm not currently running any 7-drops in my list. It definitely seems like a strong gameplan though, especially if you're running more creatures - Neoforming out Nyxbloom Ancient has been something I've wanted to do for ages.
  • Mixed feelings re: Dakmor Salvage - seems strong with Gitrog out, but situational otherwise. Your build does look a lot better at getting Gitrog out though, with Birthing Pod and Rushed Rebirth to tutor for it.
  • I like the Raven's Crime and Constant Mists tech! Seems fun.
  • Witherbloom Command wasn't really on my radar - the two kill modes (-3/-1 and MV 2 or less) both seem a bit too situational to me. Still, I guess that flexibility is the main reason to run commands, and it is a 2-for-1. I'll put it on my shortlist of cards to test.

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Post by Tyondai » 2 years ago

did some more games with tasigur. The gitrog engine felt really strong, so strong, that i'm more likelly to neoform a 4cmc creature to get the frog instead of neoforming tasigur to get a powerfull 7 drop. I did include underrealm lich which might be a bit 'to strong' with gitrog, allowing you to draw cards until you dont have a land in your top 3 cards. Gitrog has gotten so out of hand in some games that i ended up performing multiple clean-up step dredging, something that's far from casual imo.

An other card that surprised me was Hedron Crab. This card fills the yard soooo fast, especially with cards that let you play extra lands.

Edge of autumn was nice to. early game it's a 2 cmc ramp spell, late game, it's a way to get a utility land (like a cycling land or flipped bala ged recovery) in to your graveyard. This can also trigger gitrog and titania. My slogurk, the overslime is in the mail, i have high hopes for this card :)

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Nice! Yeah, The Gitrog Monster is a strong card, especially when built around. Amusingly, I've actually done the opposite of building around it - I'm running almost no self-mill in my build to reduce the number of options my opponents have for Tasigur activations (since less options = better cards). Still quite strong though - between Tasigur and miscellaneous fetch / cycling lands, lands just end up in the graveyard naturally.

Let me know how Slogurk works out for you! I somehow skipped out on ordering a copy, and I'm not entirely sure why. Will have to hunt one down sometime. I did, however, invest into a snow manabase for Blood on the Snow and Dead of Winter, so we'll see how that works. I'll probably be updating my list sometime in the next week or so.

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Post by Tyondai » 2 years ago

yeah, i think slogurk is only interesting because of the amount of self mill i run. An other self mill payoff i might include is sidisi, brood tyrant. I don't have the feeling i'm giving my opponents to much options because of the self mill. Tasigur is neoformed quite often, so when recast him, i'm delving 7+ cards.

While gitrog is indeed very strong, i don't want this deck to become tasigur-hidden-commander-gitrog, so i'll keep some sort of mental note on how often gitrog totally takes over the game. if it happens to often, i might cut him. I've played gitrog in cEDH, and i have no intention of bringing that to a casual table 95% of the time i play tasigur.

I thought about a snow manabase too. you'll also get access to into the north, jorn, god of winter and ice-fang coatl and those new dual land types snow lands. i'm currently not running fetches, if i keep it fetchless, i might go for snow too. (i have the fetches, but i dislike swapping cards from modern decks to commander)

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Crimson Vow spoilers out, and I still haven't finished testing all the new cards I got for my decks when the last set came out. >.> Anyway, it's another Innistrad set, which means more graveyard stuff. This deck doesn't get much from the vampire / tribal components of the set, but there are still a lot of interesting options for this deck.

Black
  • Cemetery Desecrator is mildly interesting as a double-Nekrataal, but seems a bit underwhelming due to its inability to kill big creatures consistently.
  • Toxrill, the Corrosive looks fantastic - a mix of Sheoldred, Whispering One and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in its ability to clear opponents' boards... and then it also makes tokens and draws cards. Seems like a very good reanimation target.
  • Demonic Bargain is a reasonably efficient tutor... if you don't exile what you wanted to fetch. I'm not a huge fan of tutors in this deck - they're fine, but this deck isn't really about assembling specific combos or synergies.
Green
  • Cemetery Prowler is a reasonable piece of grave hate - not as pinpoint as Scavenging Ooze, but a bit of incidental cost reduction is quite nice.
  • Cultivator Colossus reminds me of Ulvenwald Hydra. Seems very strong if you can get a bunch of lands in hand off something like Life from the Loam, but I think Hydra's consistency (and ability to fetch utility lands) makes it a bit better for this deck, IMO.
  • Glorious Sunrise is mildly interesting as a ramp // draw engine, but probably a bit too expensive overall.
  • Dig Up looks quite solid - it acts as a bit of smoothing in the early game, but in the lategame you can fetch something more impactful. I think I prefer Traverse the Ulvenwald - being one mana for its improved fetch makes it a better tempo play - but being able to fetch up a board wipe or other haymaker is certainly relevant.
  • Cartographer's Survey is another ramp option, albeit a slightly less consistent one compared to Explosive Vegetation. Still, it can hit nonbasics, which is quite nice. You'll get full value around 80% of the time with it, which seems reasonable, but that number may go down as lands get pulled out of the deck.
  • Retrieve is interesting - recurring two cards for three mana is pretty cheap, given that is usually costs five for Restock / Wildest Dreams. It can't get nonpermanents, which is a downside, but still seems solid. Or am I tricking myself into playing Divination? Hmmmm....
Gold / Lands
  • Old Rutstein exists and amuses me.
  • Grolnok, the Omnivore is very interesting. It works well with Tasigur - any permanent that gets milled can be played off Grolnok, effectively reducing the number of choices your opponents have even more. Obviously even better if you have lots of other self-mill. I'll also call out The Gitrog Monster synergy.
  • Runo Stromkirk // Krothuss, Lord of the Deep is also interesting. I'm pretty low on Runo for most decks - it can be difficult to have an expensive creature in the graveyard, and attacking with both Krothuss and another creature seems difficult. Still, recurring something like Greenwarden of Murasa and cloning it seems like it would be pretty strong.
  • Deathcap Glade and Dreamroot Cascade are strong options for mana fixing.
Overall, Toxrill is the single card I would be most excited to run in this deck. Dig Up and Retrieve could also be interesting alternatives to some cards already in the deck. I suspect Grolnok is a little too cute for my build (it doesn't do much without Tasigur out), but definitely worth consideration for decks heavier on the self-mill.

(edit) The Crimson Vow commander precon spoilers are out, but none of the new cards look to be relevant for this deck.

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Post by Tyondai » 2 years ago

interesting write-up! Toxrill is definitly going in the deck. as a 7 mana creature, it's a perfect neoform/birthing pod target. i'm now running Nezahal, Primal Tide (if i want to draw cards), Koma, Cosmos Serpent (if i need tokens/interaction). toxrill will be a nice third target if i need a boardwipe. it doesn't have protection like the other two, so timing will be key.

i'd like to point out that grolnok + gitrog is actually kindof a nonbo. My deck is very heavy on self mill, so lands hitting the graveyard from the library with gitrog in play usually draws me lots of cards. if you have Grolnok, the Omnivore, everything but instant/sorceries will go in to exile, so no gitrog triggers from self mill :( It also hurts recasting tasigur, but at the same time limiting what your opponents can give you. It has pro's and cons, might test it out a bit.

Old Rutstein ... to bad it only checks it's own triggers, would be nice if it was a bone miser kind of card or would also trigger on attacking like Sidisi, Brood Tyrant.

An other recent addition i'm really impressed by is willow geist. for one mana, it's easy to play and casting tasigur makes it grow really fast.

A card i'm a bit dissapointed in is Titania, Protector of Argoth. it requires to much other working pieces in play to start pumping out 5/3's. It's also not a good neoform target at 5 mana, both gitrog or seedborn muse are better targets.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Ha, that's a fair point re: Grolnok + Gitrog - Grolnok shuts off Gitrog's card draw from mill. On the other hand, you effectively draw the lands you milled instead (since you can play them from exile), so I don't think it's quite as much of a nonbo as it may seem. Honestly, I called it out because I find the idea of the frog tribal to be hilarious. Maybe add in Spore Frog or Froghemoth? (...probably not)

Interesting to hear re: Titania, but seems understandable. I don't quite think I could run her in my own build - she really wants you to be running as many fetchlands as possible, and my relatively budget manabase simply doesn't have enough. If you're looking for a replacement for that slot, I'll call out Tatyova, Benthic Druid - she functions pretty similarly to Gitrog, although triggering off lands entering the battlefield instead of leaving it.

...will probably have an update for my own build sometime in the next few days. I've been slowly going through my decks and updating them, and finally got a chance to do some testing for Tasigur. No major standouts other than a perpetual desire for moar mana, but I am contemplating throwing Tectonic Edge or another piece of land hate in, largely because I was recently annoyed by an opponent's Scavenger Grounds. Still, I am running Beast Within and Wave of Vitriol as answers to nonbasic lands, so not an urgent need.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

....following that, I've gone ahead and made a few changes to the deck. Still a few new cards I want to squeeze in, but I'm currently holding off on that until I can do another round of testing. The main highlight here is that I'm converting to a snow manabase for Blood on the Snow and Dead of Winter, but there are also a few other cards I'm looking to try out.

Cuts:
  • Scavenging Ooze - will bring it back if I find myself wanting more grave hate, but I've felt like my meta is pretty light on graveyard shenanigans. More critically, I'm adding two more board wipes to the deck, and Scavenging Ooze tends to get swept away by them a lot.
  • Dimir Charm - it's always been a cheeky inclusion, as one of the few non-monoblue counterspells. Recently though, I've noticed that I've wanted my countermagic to be able to counter instants, for stopping opposing countermagic.
  • Reclamation Sage - as above, the creature typing isn't quite as valuable if I'm casting lots of board wipes.
  • Finale of Eternity - I don't think I've cast it yet, so it could probably use some more testing... but the fact that it's based off toughness means it's generally a tempo-negative play. Reanimating all my stuff is cool, but I don't run enough creatures to really justify leaning into that text.
  • Windgrace's Judgment - as above, I don't think I've cast it yet, but it has been around longer than Finale. I think the awkward thing is that because it hits all my opponents, they're particularly hesitant to give it back... and at five mana, it's hard to find an opening to cast it. It's also somewhat rare for multiple opponents to have must-kill cards.
Adds:
  • Witherbloom Command - testing. I'm still not entirely sold on it, but I'm willing to give it a shot. The fact that it's only two mana is definitely a plus - I've been wanting more stuff to do in the early game.
  • Persist - I've generally been happy with Animate Dead in the deck, and this is close to a second copy. It can't hit opponents' creatures (or legendary ones) though, so it is a bit more narrow. Will need to do some testing to see how relevant that is.
  • Dead of Winter - a cheap an efficient board wipe... assuming I have enough snow lands to kill everything. Might be a bit too conditional, but I have found myself wanting another board wipe or two.
  • Mythos of Brokkos - testing. Tutor + recursion is an interesting package. It only gets permanents back, but this deck definitely has some high-impact cards to recur.
  • Blood on the Snow - again, testing. It's a little expensive for a board wipe, but doing something like 'reanimate Eternal Witness, recur Blood on the Snow' seems very strong. Conveniently, all the creatures in my deck are 6 mana or less, so the real question is whether I have enough snow lands to support it.
Lands: Still looking for space: Binding the Old Gods
Unsure: Timeless Witness, Emergent Ultimatum

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Post by Tyondai » 2 years ago

i've thought about replacing titania with tatyova, but i think i'll get even less value out of it. even tho i'm running oracle of muldaya, ramunap excavator, etc, my deck really isn't a landfall deck. But on the other hand, playing lands requires a lot less setup than getting lands from play in to my graveyard. As tasigur is now my 'premium' casual deck, so i do run all the fetches and still find it hard to trigger titania.

I've played with mythos of brokkos, but wasn't impressed. i think it got replaced with dryad's revival because i value the flashback due to the very high amount of selfmill in my deck. Speaking of flashback and selfmill, i'm currently not runnig any reanimate effects but have ordered a port of karfell and might add one of either dread return or diregraf rebirth for when i eventually mill some of my neoform targets. i think rebirth is better than return when i need to recover from a boardwipe. 7 mana is a lot to get a 7 mana creature in play, but sacrificing 3 creatures could be even harder.

for land destruction i recommend ghost quarter. it's better than strip mine or wasteland because it can be used as a political tool. opponent is colorscrewed? make a deal and let them search for a basic. Someone tapped out and is now unable to nature's claim something from your opponents? make a deal and give them an untapped basic. Give people a false sense of security by leaving only your ghost quarter untapped, what are you gonna do with 1 colorless mana anyways? Destroy your own tapped forest to get an untapped island and pongify their commander!

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Post by kirkusjones » 2 years ago

Played my first game with my Tasigur Lands list last night. In retrospect, it was too strong for the pod, but this being the first time I'd played it against actual opponents, I wasn't sure how tight the list was. Long story short, I spent the majority of the game feeling like I had all the answers and that my threats always outclassed my opponents'. That said, I'm swapping in Xanathar, Guild Kingpin for Thassa's Oracle unless the pod is really high powered.

My list, for reference:
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Currently on the fence about Wrenn and Seven. I drew it, but never wanted to play/protect it. I'll jam a few more games before I decide to swap it out for Pernicious Deed.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

@kirkusjones - nice! Not necessarily that it's a mismatch for your pod, but cool to hear that you finally go a chance to pilot it. Fortunately, tuning down a deck is much easier that tuning it up - it shouldn't be too difficult to make a few swaps to make things a bit more casual. Let me know if you want any suggestions. My experience piloting the deck is that before it hits ~8 or so mana, it ca feel a bit clunky... but after it reaches that point, it's extremely difficult for opponents to disrupt. As a result, the longer the game goes, the stronger the deck will feel.

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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 2 years ago

Just popping in to say that you have written a nice primer! I am looking into building Tasigur, so I am looking at different lists and different angles that people take. Your ramp take is something I would probably enjoy :grin: .

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

@LaHistorica - thanks! Feel free to ask me if you have any questions. Ramp-based Tasigur is certainly a lot of fun, and I'll recommend giving it a shot if you're looking to cast some big, dumb spells... or grind out some value.

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