Bruna's Battle Cruiser

KungfuHero
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Post by KungfuHero » 3 years ago

Great response. Thanks.

Lately I've changed my deck around to push a life gain sub theme. I feel like there aren't quite enough good cards that trigger when you gain life, but we'll see how it goes. It might turn out to be pretty powerful.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to ask you about Tocatli Honor Guard. I feel like she's underrated. Though you have I believe seven etb creatures, so maybe not for this deck.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

KungfuHero wrote:
3 years ago
Great response. Thanks.

Lately I've changed my deck around to push a life gain sub theme. I feel like there aren't quite enough good cards that trigger when you gain life, but we'll see how it goes. It might turn out to be pretty powerful.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to ask you about Tocatli Honor Guard. I feel like she's underrated. Though you have I believe seven etb creatures, so maybe not for this deck.
I have gone back and forth a bit on pushing harder on lifegain. I think there are some great payoffs for doing so but the number of cards that give life that you want to just naturally run are a bit hit or miss. I think that Bruna will probably be able to get there at some point but I still struggle as to if I like the current cards that can gain me life.

Tocatli Honor Guard - I think its a great card and if its going to hit your meta I think you should run it and see how it goes. I love Torpor Orb effects, my current meta is just hit almost zero by them and I have had to cut them from my builds. I think these effects are great and the fact that its cheap and recurrable with Bruna seems like good reasons to give it a shot. I think I would want to see some dedicated ETB decks run on a fairly regular basis for me to run it. I for instance have like..... one ETB deck currently and I think I have like 12 decks together. Its going to be a bit of a question of how frequently you see that sort of thing but in general ETB focused decks tend to use ETB creatures as their removal so you can really shut them down hard with something like this. Its a shame that Hushbringer has such weird creature types as that one would be even better but doesn't fit the whole human / angel thing we got here. I guess I would start with including Tocatli Honor Guard and if this effect is something you find yourself wanting you can scale up the non human / angel ones as you need.
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Post by KungfuHero » 3 years ago

Here's a question I've always wondered. How many life gain cards do I need so that it's ok to run cards like Well of Lost Dreams? On its own it does nothing, and what's worse, Bruna does not herself gain life. How many is enough to warrant using a card like that? Or should I stay completely on synergy with my general?

Right now I run Serra Ascendant, Righteous Valkyrie, Gisela, the Broken Blade, Mangara, the Diplomat, Lyra Dawnbringer, Baneslayer Angel, Archangel of Thune, Valkyrie Harbinger, True Conviction, Sword of Light and Shadow, Survival Cache , Seraph Sanctuary, and High Market.

Is that enough to run cards like Well of Lost Dreams or Angelic Accord, which are dead cards on their own? Or if I run life gain synergy, should all the separate pieces be good on their own (such as Valkyrie Harbringer or Archangel of Thune)?

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

KungfuHero wrote:
3 years ago
Here's a question I've always wondered. How many life gain cards do I need so that it's ok to run cards like Well of Lost Dreams? On its own it does nothing, and what's worse, Bruna does not herself gain life. How many is enough to warrant using a card like that? Or should I stay completely on synergy with my general?

Right now I run Serra Ascendant, Righteous Valkyrie, Gisela, the Broken Blade, Mangara, the Diplomat, Lyra Dawnbringer, Baneslayer Angel, Archangel of Thune, Valkyrie Harbinger, True Conviction, Sword of Light and Shadow, Survival Cache , Seraph Sanctuary, and High Market.

Is that enough to run cards like Well of Lost Dreams or Dawn of Hope, which are dead cards or almost dead on their own? Or if I run life gain synergy, should all the separate pieces be good on their own (such as Valkyrie Harbringer or Archangel of Thune)?
Well of Lost Dreams - I have always had the standpoint that I probably need to either have my commander as a fairly regular source of lifegain or have it be sort of the core concept I am going for to make this card work. Its a bit of an all or nothing effect though on lifegain and if you aren't gaining life, it does nothing. I wouldn't probably run it in Bruna without going real deep on the lifegain concept (like deeper than the impression I got you were going).

Dawn of Hope - I have in the past run it in my own bruna deck. It was...... ok but honestly I ran it as more of a mana dump for token gen with occasional lifegain. I cut it a good long while back but I felt it was more reasonable given that I could mana dump for tokens that would trigger the lifegain. Since then I added monarch to my list and have never looked back. I honestly feel like this draw effect is kind of weak and the token gen is also a bit weak. I think its fine if you want to run it, but I have never been mind blown by this card even when lifegain is everywhere.

Lifegain - In general.... I think a big issue we have is that there aren't that many payoff effects that we naturally want to run. I am running a few of them already and the ones I am not running would extend to like.... Speaker of the Heavens and then it would be some non human / angel based things including some enchantments and things like Crested Sunmare which get a bit off creature type quickly. I think that without our commander giving us a source of lifegain or a payoff I just haven't felt like its quite enough to make me go all in on it. I did recently do some delving into a Lurrus of the Dream-Den (list here) lifegain theme concept using low curve cards and I need to test that a LOT more but in general I think that the self contained cards that can gain life and make a payoff all on their own are fairly reasonable. I think that lifegain payoffs is coming along very nicely but I also don't think that we have enough on theme concepts to make Bruna the commander we want to be on as of right now to force a lifegain concept. Right now we have like 4 on creature type payoffs for lifegain and I think that for Bruna to be the commander for a concept like this we need more. I think that lifegain payoffs is a concept that can work, I just don't know that its a mono white deck and I doubt that Bruna is the go to commander for it as of right now. My current thoughts, is to run cards that are all on their own reasonable cards when it comes to lifegain payoffs.

As a bit of a side note, Angelic Skirmisher is very similar to Baneslayer Angel but it scales up a bit better to having other creatures. I found it to be a bit more appealing for a Bruna rez potential than Baneslayer Angel as it represented more lifelink across the board and it has immediate impact in that it can share out its buff right away where as Baneslayer needs to get to combat to do so. Baneslayer is going to be superior standalone but after having run both a little I would suggest the Skirmisher over baneslayer for when boards get more complicated.
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Post by KungfuHero » 3 years ago

I appreciate the input. I can't wait for Angel of the Ruins to release.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

KungfuHero wrote:
3 years ago
I appreciate the input. I can't wait for Angel of the Ruins to release.
The fact that they managed to fit planescycling onto it just makes it so perfect for reanimator decks. I am also very eager to get my hands on it. I honestly think it might be one of the absolute best angels we might have gotten period just from the standpoint that it has essentially zero dead time in hand and sets us up for a faster bruna cast.
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Post by KungfuHero » 3 years ago

Yes! The plainscycling is incredible. Any card that is good no matter when you draw it is prime edh material. And you can do cool things like hard cast it for 7, or for 9 you can cycle it and play Bruna, getting it that way, putting 2 big bodies out, and ensuring another land drop. VERY versatile.

With enough good etb effects, maybe a few more sac outlets would be good? Pushing the reanimation theme further? I know that would make us more vulnerable to graveyard hate though. Honestly, my group skimps on removal like that. Pretty much Bojuka Bog is the only one I ever see.

Edit: Speaking of etbs, how would Angel of Glory's Rise fit in your deck? You have 12 humans if I count correctly.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

I am looking forward to testing some of the C21 cards. My LGS just opened for commander play again with some mask and player count limitations so hopefully I can get back to getting some testing in. I added a TON of hatebear stuffs since I got to really last do a bunch of testing with this deck lol. For the last year plus I have mostly played against the same two people about once every month to two.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Magus of the BalanceArchangel of Tithes I have drawn the magus a few times and it REALLY has not felt good in hand. It isn't even a feels bad kind of thing so much as just I often feel like I have been ahead on board of late and the balance effect tends to be something you play from behind. I think the thing that frustrates me about it is that it lacks control and gives opponents a lot of options as to what they want to do. Plus it lacks haste and needs a bunch of mana to do it. Anyways, I haven't ever tried out Archangel of Tithes but I kind of liked the combination of things it can do. It helps some vs swarm tactics which is a weakness of this deck and while the tax isn't crazy it makes it harder to craterhoof and attack me in the same turn which is nice. I think that even when it isn't crazy its still a form of evasion and a body for equipment so I think that is enough to get me to try it out.
  • Endless AtlasArchaeomancer's Map I almost cut Sword of Fire and Ice from my list but I think that while it is dependent on combat, the pump, removal, and continuous use after equipping it makes me favor it slightly. I think that its actually sort of close as endless atlas has a lot less dependencies (not needing a creature, combat, or to connect). My draw has been feeling REALLY good of late with the monarch stuff and its generally only if I don't find monarch or equipment that I stumble (not often). I wanted to bring in the map for some testing and with how well most of my other draw has been going lately I have really been eyeing some of the effects that cost me mana every turn.
  • Open the ArmoryAngel of the Ruins with bringing Search for Glory into the list it makes me look at some of my equipment tutors especially Open which is my least efficient. After adding monarch to my list I think my equipment's importance to carry me ass through the game diminished some as well. I think its fine to cut back a little on the equipment searching especially this one which is less efficient. Its odd to bring in a seven drop for a two drop but if you work through Open the Armory costing two, then all my equipment cost 2-3 mana, then equipping most is another 2ish mana its really sort of a similar level play but I think that the angel has better play for less mana in the land search instead of just slow playing my tutor.
  • Throne of the High CityWitch's Clinic I really have never felt that I wanted to activate throne. I do love monarch but I more think that its worth playing a card to get it. Activating Throne costs as much as the expensive creatures with monarch to cast but it puts me off of a land drop and leaves me with nothing in play. I thought I would maybe want to consider tutoring for it with Weathered Wayfarer / Expedition Map but in the end I just preferred increasing my monarch density and not needing this as much. I think that Witch's Clinic is a great effect in that lifelink can be very hit or miss in how important it is which makes it something I think is great on a land as utility. I tend to want to get some life gain pickup vs decks that attack my life total in a non infinite way through means other than combat and occasionally vs swarm type decks.
KungfuHero wrote:
3 years ago
Yes! The plainscycling is incredible. Any card that is good no matter when you draw it is prime edh material. And you can do cool things like hard cast it for 7, or for 9 you can cycle it and play Bruna, getting it that way, putting 2 big bodies out, and ensuring another land drop. VERY versatile.

With enough good etb effects, maybe a few more sac outlets would be good? Pushing the reanimation theme further? I know that would make us more vulnerable to graveyard hate though. Honestly, my group skimps on removal like that. Pretty much Bojuka Bog is the only one I ever see.

Edit: Speaking of etbs, how would Angel of Glory's Rise fit in your deck? You have 12 humans if I count correctly.
Sorry I probably should have responded sooner lol.

ETB / Sac - Most of my issue is that mono white struggles with sac outlets. You can probably get away with running a few without much impact but ultimately there are only something like 5 or so really good sac outlets you get with white. Then there is the question of what is the payoff for sacrificing them. You could probably do it, but why do it over making a commander like Yorion, Sky Nomad?

I think that sac outlets for example are something that don't do much on their own. They rely on other cards to create efficient engines to create value and I just don't know that I am convinced that mono white can pull it off with a commander like Bruna. Obviously I am biased towards my own build but I got the impression that forcing a bunch of things that can spiral out of control on their own and backing them up with recursion was stronger than trying to create loops with a seven cast commander. Its not easy to recast Bruan and her trigger is on cast not ETB making it really hard to use her more than a handful of times in a game. My goal was to make every time I cast her feel very impactful. If Bruna's trigger was an ETB instead of an on cast I think that sac outlets / flicker concepts likely would have been strong but without that I just don't think that she can support this concept.

Angel of Glory's Rise I did discuss it some in Toc's primer before and after they spoiled Rick, Steadfast Leader. Ultimately I think its probably viable but you really want to be able to rez 2-3+ humans with it to really make it worthwhile. 12 humans just isn't enough to justify that (yet). I think if we see more human lords that seem commander viable as well as more humans that seem worth running in this format it might be doable. I just think we might not have the density of things to make it be great yet. I did make a list experimenting with it a little as a concept a while back but I never built it IRL.
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Post by KungfuHero » 2 years ago

I'm dying to know your thoughts on Devastating Mastery. I'm thinking early game there will probably be someone you're ok with bouncing two of their things (which is itself not a bad effect), and 6 mana is still good for a board wipe in general.

And on that note, how about Ondu Inversion // Ondu Skyruins in the place of one land? 8 for a board wipe is iffy, but it doesn't take up a card slot. Really the weakness is having another non plains land that comes in tapped.

In the spirit of hatebears, I just realized you're not running Aven Mindcensor, which is super strong, though not an angel or human.

Last question. Is Resplendent Angel good enough? It seems very weak to me. On curve it's good because it can be equipped, but later it seems like a bad draw. How reliably are you able to make angel tokens with it?

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

KungfuHero wrote:
2 years ago
I'm dying to know your thoughts on Devastating Mastery. I'm thinking early game there will probably be someone you're ok with bouncing two of their things (which is itself not a bad effect), and 6 mana is still good for a board wipe in general.

And on that note, how about Ondu Inversion // Ondu Skyruins in the place of one land? 8 for a board wipe is iffy, but it doesn't take up a card slot. Really the weakness is having another non plains land that comes in tapped.

In the spirit of hatebears, I just realized you're not running Aven Mindcensor, which is super strong, though not an angel or human.

Last question. Is Resplendent Angel good enough? It seems very weak to me. On curve it's good because it can be equipped, but later it seems like a bad draw. How reliably are you able to make angel tokens with it?
Devastating Mastery - Its kind of cool that there are multiple ways to cast it but I guess I worry about what gets returned. I get that you probably pick the guy who is behind or not doing as well to bounce but I guess I would have to see it in action myself. I feel like I would rather see Hour of Revelation kind of like....... every time over this. I really REALLY hate giving any opponent any benefit like ever so an effect has to be SUPER good for me to want to do it. I think this wrath is fine..... I just don't really see a reason I would pick it up personally but its not wrong to play or anything. If you want to test it out, go for it. I don't really see myself enjoying the effect personally but it seems fine.

Ondu Inversion // Ondu Skyruins - Some of my issue is more that the cost for the effect is steep. Its nice in that you could bring your count up by one but I always fight on if I would cut a land or a spell for it. In both cases I have trouble justifying why I would cut a spell or a land and in the end I just haven't actually tested it yet. Eight mana for anything is kind of a lot and the effect is really only worth about six so the option to throw away a wrath pushing it up two mana doesn't really have me sold.

Aven Mindcensor - If it works in your meta go for it. I mostly added some hatebears for the stuff that I see personally. For whatever reason nobody is really running heavy ETB where I am at so I have had to mostly abandon Torpor Orb effects. I see a lot of things that a pithing needle can shut down for whatever reason.

Resplendent Angel - I really have not been disappointed by it. You don't have to run it by any means but what I like is that if I am drawing a lot of cards and doing well, its cheap to cast and doesn't take much commitment. If I am hurting for cards and drawing dead I still feel like I can just put mana into it and have a mana dump that does relevant things. I have really not been disappointed in it I guess. People often feel the need to try to stop it and I don't have to put much in for what it does for me.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

MH2 Set Review:

WHITE
  • Abiding Grace - Its a cool card, its not for this deck and I struggle a little to even come up with concepts for it in commander but I think there are some outlyers that this card could be really sweet in. Off the top of my head a BW Shadowborn Apostle deck may consider it but its one a turn status might even be too slow for that. Its a cool concept and I like this design but its going to be awfully niche. Sweet for an uncommon though.
  • Esper Sentinel - I think for this card to shine you are going to want to pump his power. Given that he only taxes the first noncreature each turn I think I like him less than I do Thalia, Guardian of Thraben unless you plan to reliably pump him or have some sort of artificer or one mana synergy package.
  • Glorious Enforcer - I think its kind of a sweet uncommon beater angel. The power of a 5/5 double strike flying lifelinker is nothing to sneeze at but it is expensive and it is a combat only sort of card. I think its a step up on the usual uncommon limited trash but I still think its a ways from making its way into any of my lists.
  • Late to Dinner - I think that even Resurrection with a bonus is still too weak for most decks.
  • Nykthos Paragon - Sweet card but I think we would need to make a hard turn to being a lifelink deck to justify it. He doesn't do enough on his own as he needs something to enable him. I like it more when the commander itself can trigger him to be honest so I think that even shifting to a lifelink concept is still a bit rough for including him in a Bruna deck. Really sweet card though and it made me briefly consider rebuilding my Gisela, the Broken Blade deck but I think it may still be a few more lifegain payoffs before I go back there.
  • Out of Time - I think this is a really nice new card. I honestly don't know where I stand on it but the fact that tokens make this last longer this is likely a nice stall tactic. The fact that opponents can't put their commanders in the command zone when this hits is hilarious but I am not sure if its generically a good card in this format or if it will be more designated to enchantress tactics. There is a chance this might be INCREDIBLY strong and honestly I will just need to see it in action before I can assess it better but this might be a thing. The fact that you can Sun Titan / Emeria Shepherd it back is really strong. I guess I am not really sold yet either way on where I stand on this card but testing will need to happen.
  • Resurgent Belief - This isn't an enchantress deck so moving on.
  • Sanctifier en-Vec - The fact that this card deprives a big number of death triggers on top of being graveyard hate AND it gives you a chump blocker against a myraid of multicolor commanders is all something I like about this card. I run a good amount of graveyard hate in my deck and its on creature type to be recurred with the commander. I really hate dying to reanimator loops / aristocrats so this card has me really eyeing it. There are still going to be some multicolored decks with cards that will still die / go to grave with this that fit in those categories but most of them are partially black which I think really sells me a bit on this card.
  • Search the Premises - this card is REALLY bad in comparison to Ghostly Prison. It might deter a few random pokes in the mid game but when someone actually has a big army of creatures you are just going to get run down. I am really not a fan.
  • Serra's Emissary - I see this as primarily a creature Moat effect but its nice in that it doesn't protect opponents from attacks and it also protects vs flyers. Its a very strong defensive card and it can even stop a few non combat based cards that might pressure your life total and or board. I think that most of the time when playing this its going to choose creatures but there may be times that other modes are chosen. Keep in mind that you can choose enchantment and protect yourself from Purphoros, God of the Forge when he is not a creature. Choosing creatures also gives you evasion to full swing past blocks which is something too. I just don't know about the amount of mana it costs for what I would call a heavily defensive card.
  • Solitude - In my mind, the big reason to consider this guy would be primarily in some sort of flicker concept deck. If you are already running Swords to Plowshares / Path to Exile and you are saying to yourself that you just need more of that then I guess its also an option but the single white mana of those cards is generally not that hard to keep up. I guess I am not blown away by this in this format.
  • Thraben Watcher - It is amusing but given that Bruna already has vigilance I think its still a touch weak. Its a cool uncommon but I think its probably a pass.
  • Timeless Dragon - Its a cool idea, I just can't think of much of any commander deck where the eternalize or casting him has any real value. He might just be another throw away cycling concept card given how many versions of planecycling we have now.
COLORLESS
  • Diamond Lion - Its not stricly worse than Lion's Eye Diamond in that you could rez him. I just think that in most lists, its going to be worse. I don't think I can make Lion's Eye Diamond work in most mono white concepts.
  • Kaldra Compleat - I will say all of the stats and abilities add onto Bruna in a very nice way. That said, I think its expensive and slow as hell. Casting Bruna usually takes most of my turn and it looks like equipping this equipment might likewise take most of another turn. I also generally don't worry about protecting Bruna because if she dies, I tend to get to recast and rez her which I find to be well worth doing. I guess my only gripe assuming you get everything set up on Bruna is that she then only has 10 power which is still a three turn clock which is unfortunate considering most any sword of X and Y will turn Bruna into a three turn clock as well.
  • Sol Talisman - I don't know that this card looks playable anywhere.
  • Sword of Hearth and Home - I think its a cool effect. The downside is that I am really not much of an ETB focused build myself making me favor the ramp, stats, and protection more. Its sort of similar to Sword of the Animist though and I can respect that. Its worth noting that the flicker is a creature you OWN not control so that means you can get out of theft and some transform effects with it.
Just a quick breakdown on some of my changes that I highlight below. Some of the one spellcast a turn effects I tried out were hurting this deck a bit when I would have decent draw. They were still doing a good job of punishing some of the cantrip / draw heavy decks but I am going to see if I cant pivot to a tax rather than the one spell cast / turn effects and see how they go as I can play with being taxed. To some degree I was trying to punish some of the decks that just spin their tires hard and or go into infinite situations which they did but I think some of the taxing might do ok with.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Archon of EmeriaThalia, Guardian of Thraben I actually really like Thalia (both versions) but a lot of my concern had been on card draw / card advantage. The monarch effects have been helping me a lot of late though and I got to feeling like I might be able to justify trying out something to punish and or slow down some of the heavy gas card draw and even combo decks with a little taxation.
  • Mind's EyeOut of Time I haven't been wildly impressed with Mind's Eye for some time. Really it was just that white lacked card draw though. With my draw feeling better of late I am all for getting off of Mind's Eye because its just such a mana hog the first turn and it often doesn't live or is hard to maintain. Out of Time seems like an absurd stall against several commander centric strategies I have been seeing a lot of. Its sort of similar in ways to some of the transform or steal effects on a commander and I want to see how it plays.
  • Rule of LawDamping Sphere - I think Damping Sphere achieves some similar results in some ways as well as giving me some other effects. It does hate on some of my own lands so...... I guess we will see if that is a problem or not (it likely will be) but I want to see if the effect as a whole is worth having. I want to stop some infinite combos and decks that just spin their wheels super hard on the card draw front.
  • Scrabbling ClawsSanctifier en-Vec I still really love claws in that it cantrips but to be honest when I really need grave hate sometimes the effect isn't sufficient given it only hits one card of my choosing. I often found issues in dedicating a card slot in this deck to strictly grave hate but I really like the dual protections here combined with a replacement effect hate to shut down some on death trigger decks and also still grave hate on entering. Its also a human to boot so I am excited to see how it might perform.
  • Devout WitnessVryn Wingmare I had some clashing of the activated ability hate combined with Witness. Witness is also kind of slow and that was something I had issues with deploying and then needing to wait a turn to use. I like that Vryn has flying which might help me get some poke damage / equipment carrying options through even though it isn't on creature type it still is open to the Emerias and Sun Titan.
  • Gideon JuraSword of Hearth and Home I am not really sure on cutting Gideon. He had a few good games for me but I also had a few where he was stuck in my hand where I didn't have a dominant enough board that I felt I could get away with him. He might come back at a later time I am not really convinced either way right now. I do like the value of the new sword though so I guess I will probably end up buying a copy to test.
I am still not sure where I stand on Serra's Emissary. Its a card that I am quite interested in and its possible that I could cut something like Magus of the Moat for it or it could go in alongside my current moats. I wasn't really convinced in cutting any of my top end cards for it given how defensive it is but its possible that it should make the cut over one of my other defensive cards.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

I really wish Serra's Emissary was:

3WWW

Flash
When Serra's Emissary enters the battlefield, choose a card type.
You and creatures you control gain protection from the chosen card type UNTIL END OF TURN.
Evoke: 2WW
WRBKaalia, Zenith Seeker - Certified Air Raid Material
WBElenda, the Dusk Rose - Drain and Gain
WRAurelia, the Warleader - Tokens/Equipment
URNiv-Mizzet, Parun - Controlled Burn primer
BRGHenzie, "Toolbox" Torre - Creature Feature
BRGSoul of Windgrace - Lands Matter
RGWGishath, Sun's Avatar - I'M YOUR DADDY
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' Voice - Artifact Stax Beatdown
Budget Starter Decks
UBSygg, River Cutthroat
WU Shorikai, Genesis Engine
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

RowanKeltizar wrote:
2 years ago
I really wish Serra's Emissary was:

3WWW

Flash
When Serra's Emissary enters the battlefield, choose a card type.
You and creatures you control gain protection from the chosen card type UNTIL END OF TURN.
Evoke: 2WW
Yea, I think its actually ok its just hard to have something that feels primarily defensive be so high on the curve. The more I think about replacing something like Magus of the Moat with it the more I think I am onboard. Generally speaking moving the curve up kind of sucks but in reality its rare that I need to early game shut down non flyers. It tends to be my defense vs token decks and while token decks can spin up quickly, its rare that I need to curve a Moat effect against someone. Magus of the Moat also can't carry equipment and in some ways shuts down some of my own equipment game.

So, I guess

DECK CHANGE:
  • Magus of the MoatSerra's Emissary Like I was saying I rarely need to curve a moat effect. I think the lategame gain from having the angel over the magus seems nice. Its always nice to test the new cards and if I don't love it, I can always go back.
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Post by KungfuHero » 2 years ago

Here's the big question. Is melding into Brisela even worth it? I find that even when given the opportunity, I'd rather not meld. For one thing it's card disadvantage if Brisela gets picked off somehow. I used to go for it every time. I don't even think I ever got even one swing in with Brisela in all the times I tried.

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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

KungfuHero wrote:
2 years ago
Here's the big question. Is melding into Brisela even worth it? I find that even when given the opportunity, I'd rather not meld. For one thing it's card disadvantage if Brisela gets picked off somehow. I used to go for it every time. I don't even think I ever got even one swing in with Brisela in all the times I tried.
I've found it really depends on the board state and the meta. I've had it completely turn decks off before. Like, a Feather, the Redeemed, Zada, Hedron Grinder or Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest is not going to be able to play around it even a little bit. I've had plenty of folk just scoop when I make the meld. Conversely if you're facing down creature heavy builds its not the be all and end all.

The other aspect worth considering is that it significantly advances your commander kill clock, from 5 swings to barely 3. So if you have combat modofier advantage its worth it from that respect.

I get why you wouldn't against swarms, but given it has vigilance you don't lose a huge amount in defensive power.

Personally I just use it as a part of my control suite. If it fits to choke the board out I'll meld, if it doesn't I won't. You have the option but it doesn't mean you have to use it every time even if it is fairly easy.

The other part of it in terms of threat assessment is people kinda wanna see it happen because its so weird and rare. It just means if you're unsure whether you'll get crack back on it you might actually benefit more from rolling the dice and seeing what happens.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

KungfuHero wrote:
2 years ago
Here's the big question. Is melding into Brisela even worth it? I find that even when given the opportunity, I'd rather not meld. For one thing it's card disadvantage if Brisela gets picked off somehow. I used to go for it every time. I don't even think I ever got even one swing in with Brisela in all the times I tried.
Brisela, Voice of Nightmares stops opponents from casting spells that cost 3 or less which tends to include most spot removal that gets run. If someone wants to wrath to kill my commander it usually isn't a big deal as recasting Bruna isn't that big of a deal.

I have had sever people scoop to her but I usually don't get to attack with her much. For me its more of a flavor win if I can accomplish it but her stopping opponents from casting is really strong in my current meta as everyone seems to love chaining cantrip / draw effects in my current meta.
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

Not for nothing it'll stop lots of ramp too - signets and talismans, Cultivate et al, as well as powerful control stuff like Rhystic Study, Hullbreacher and most of the good wheels, altars, Winter Orb/Static Orb, swords of X and Y, as well as the lion's share of countermagic too. Sure, folks can still play Spell Swindle, Desertion and Rewind, but how often do people actually play those? Oh, Cyclonic Rift and Toxic Deluge too. That's like the formats two best removal spells.

I get that it doesn't completely switch off a whole lot of decks outside of a few specific cantrip-style archetypes, but there's plenty of staple that it stops too. A lot of this stuff it doesn't exactly curve into either, but I'm pretty confident in my ramp package personally, I think we do ok.
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Post by KungfuHero » 2 years ago

In my experience people play a lot of creatures with etbs that handle her. She can't get plowed of course, but in edh people play value, and that often means stuff like duplicant or shriekmaw just to name two, and then blinking or reanimating over and over. In fact I think that kind of removal is more common in edh than path, plow, etc.

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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

KungfuHero wrote:
2 years ago
In my experience people play a lot of creatures with etbs that handle her. She can't get plowed of course, but in edh people play value, and that often means stuff like duplicant or shriekmaw just to name two, and then blinking or reanimating over and over. In fact I think that kind of removal is more common in edh than path, plow, etc.
There's probably room for Torpor Orb in a meta like that I'd say. I personally have a few ETB things in my list but it'd be easy enough to trade them out for harder control and knuckle down on your opponents' creatures impact.
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Post by KungfuHero » 2 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
2 years ago
KungfuHero wrote:
2 years ago
In my experience people play a lot of creatures with etbs that handle her. She can't get plowed of course, but in edh people play value, and that often means stuff like duplicant or shriekmaw just to name two, and then blinking or reanimating over and over. In fact I think that kind of removal is more common in edh than path, plow, etc.
There's probably room for Torpor Orb in a meta like that I'd say. I personally have a few ETB things in my list but it'd be easy enough to trade them out for harder control and knuckle down on your opponents' creatures impact.
I definitely agree. Etb stuff is huge in my group, and Bruna seems to lend herself well to hatebear strategy. Especially considering Brisela is a hatebear herself basically. I'm a big fan of Tocatli Honor Guard for this deck, but it does require slotting out some of my own etbs.

Edit: Dang, I just counted and am surprised to find 10 etb creatures in my deck. I keep forgetting the creatures that make you the monarch are all etb.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

KungfuHero wrote:
2 years ago
I definitely agree. Etb stuff is huge in my group, and Bruna seems to lend herself well to hatebear strategy. Especially considering Brisela is a hatebear herself basically. I'm a big fan of Tocatli Honor Guard for this deck, but it does require slotting out some of my own etbs.

Edit: Dang, I just counted and am surprised to find 10 etb creatures in my deck. I keep forgetting the creatures that make you the monarch are all etb.
Sorry, its been a while since I played against ETB heavy metas. Back before they changed the commander tuck rule I used to see it all the time but its been a long time since I saw any heavy prevalence of it. There are a few options but some of them might be hard to make work in this specific deck. You can as you mentioned hate on ETB tactics. If you do this I guess I would give more priority to equipment and some of the old card draw that we ran before I shifted more towards monarch which you can find some in the comments.

Its going to be tough though to be honest. I can think of a lot of types of decks that I would potentially play to hate on that that Torpor Orb effects probably fit into better. Off the top of my head adding green, black, or blue for tutors and draw to find them more consistently could be things. Generally speaking what makes Bruna appealing is how robust the deck is against control but if you get into ETB value games it can be easy to get outpaced. Similarly I hate playing against ramp decks with this deck but I built mine to be fairly good against proactive non ramp decks and control decks. Decks that focus more on just jamming ETB value / ramp tend to be ones I don't do as well against but those are also not what I encounter a ton of.
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Post by Ruiner » 2 years ago

Depending on the style of ETB decks you see, it could be rather helpful to play Rule of Law and similar cards to minimize your opponent's ability to "go off". In my experience with my own Bruna deck, I don't tend to fire off a ton of spells every turn, so I'd expect you'd be less impacted while still keeping your own ETB stuff. This wouldn't stop the effects but could potentially be the speed bump you need.

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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

For myself I don't have a fixed meta currently, most of my games are pickups online. I also don't see a huge amount of ETB shenanigans, mostly they're 'the next big hotness at this point in time', which obviously varies greatly in quality and power. For that reason I try to cover as many scenarios as I can. Obviously that does sort of water things down a little and means I don't have definitive locks for any particular archetypes, but it means I have something to use for most archetypes I'd come across. Strangely though, I don't see a lot of attrition decks. I've faced down a few Korvold, Fae-Cursed Kings, but it's not all that common of late.

That being said I also have 13 ETB triggers so I'd probably struggle with Torpor Orb myself. Thinking a little more outside the box for options to combat ETB sac effects, there's not a huge amount in the white wheelhouse. Karmic Justice comes to mind, but I suspect that doesn't really help against Plaguebearer/Fleshbag Marauder effects, as sacrifice is not the same as destroy. Angel of Jubilation doesn't directly help either, but might help slow the momentum those sort of decks tend to get from things like Ashnod's Altar, Viscera Seer and so forth, it's not nothing. Twilight Shepherd could be useful too, but it's far from optimal in any other capacity really. Serra's Emissarycould useful. Depending on what the attrition delivery mechanism is (ie Smokestacks, Grave Pacts or Fleshbag Marauders) you name that and because you as a player also have protection from said permanent type you can't be forced to sacrifice. Again, it's not perfect though, if the attrition doesn't target you specifically, the sacrifice still happens. I think it might just be an archetype this deck struggles against. We can bake enough reanimation chains into the deck to make it quite tough to break down our boardstate, but attrition builds do tend to run lower to the ground so I think either way it's going to be an uphill battle.

I actually had a little gameplay recently against a Tergrid, God of Fright // Tergrid's Lantern build (@ISBPathfinder it was after my last update having removed Homeward Path, so I struggled more than I ought to have). It did come down to a 1v1 slugfest before I ran out of resources. I really just had to make the best use I could of the tempo advantage I had and get him out of the game as soon as I could. I did get close, but just through sheer depth of Fleshbag Marauder variants I ended up losing. I think it is just always going to be tough going against this type of deck, and given the choice you should always be looking to knock them out first.
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

Ruiner wrote:
2 years ago
Depending on the style of ETB decks you see, it could be rather helpful to play Rule of Law and similar cards to minimize your opponent's ability to "go off". In my experience with my own Bruna deck, I don't tend to fire off a ton of spells every turn, so I'd expect you'd be less impacted while still keeping your own ETB stuff. This wouldn't stop the effects but could potentially be the speed bump you need.
This is a pretty good option. There's also Deafening Silence and Eidolon of Rhetoric.
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Post by KungfuHero » 2 years ago

I know it's been forever since this has been updated, but I've been playing EDH again lately and wondering if Esper Sentinel is good card draw for this deck. It's a human, but I won't be able to reliably pump his power. I feel like early game he's really good, but late game he might be a dead draw.

And also Ethersworn Canonist. She seems really good. Like a Rule of Law on a human.

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