Xenagos, God of 2x Beatdown

[plushpenguin]

1. Hey Penguin, have you tried Kogla (the ape from Ikoria)?

2. And what do you think of beaters like kalonian hydra?

3. An extra equipment for Godo? There's a high chance he has nothing to fetch if you draw embercleave...

4. Late game: subterranean tremors and oblivion stone?

5. Are you still running heroic intervention since deflecting swat?

1. I like it as utility, but it was just missing that trample keyword. Has competition with cards like Decimate.
2. Straight beaters honestly don't cut it anymore. They need a huge advantage (super high damage for example) to make them worth it
3. My entire tutor suite was redesigned around getting him. So the chances of drawing both pieces is somewhat low
4. I'm trying to avoid expensive wipes. The only time I'll really need one is early.. if I need one at all.
5. I consider heroic intervention optional. It is very versatile but the 2 mana is a problem in a list like this.

As for lands, I'm personally testing out Inkmoth Nexus. I haven't gotten many uses out of it, but I like it so far.

[SGAN]

Hey @plushpenguin, huge fan of the deck! I wanted to see your thoughts on Ram Through. Seems like at the worst it is a 2 mana instant speed creature removal (via fight). But with all your tramplers it seems like it can be used as a pseudo extra combat you can drop post-Xenagos buff if you ram it into something weak like a dork or token. And your creature doesn't die like with fling, etc.

[plushpenguin]

Hey plushpenguin, huge fan of the deck! I wanted to see your thoughts on Ram Through. Seems like at the worst it is a 2 mana instant speed creature removal (via fight). But with all your tramplers it seems like it can be used as a pseudo extra combat you can drop post-Xenagos buff if you ram it into something weak like a dork or token. And your creature doesn't die like with fling, etc.

Ram Through is actually pretty good and a card that I haven't really discussed that should be discussed.

There can be a time and place for tricks like those that double damage for very cheap mana costs. Fling is generally not a good card in the deck as you really need staying power to win your games. However, decent creature removal is also not that easy to find in these colors. This both acts as removal AND extra damage in one. The downside is that you need to have one of your guys untap and live to attack again. Which... is generally a downside that all the "combat tricks and flings" share.

This is definitely probably the best of them. If you can afford to run a berserk effect, try this one out. I can't guarantee that my creatures will live past the first attack, and so my space is reserved for protecting them and instead I choose the most powerful creatures to do enough damage on their own.

[Artaud]

Is there place for Rancor in your list?

[Ardeyn]

In my version of the deck I play Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage which with all the land tutors - I also have Into the North and snow lands - is another great "one shot" with Xenagos.

That sounds cool! Which other land tutors are you running besides sylvan scrying?

For finding Dark Depths I run Sylvan Scrying, Crop Rotation, Into the North and Once Upon a Time.
Except for Into the North they also can grab Thespian's Stage. I also play Mirage Mirror, which combos with Depths in the same way and is a flexible card in its own right.
Combined with the massive draw this deck can generate it hasn't been a problem to set up Marit Lage.

[LDB]

1. Hey Penguin, have you tried Kogla (the ape from Ikoria)?

2. And what do you think of beaters like kalonian hydra?

3. An extra equipment for Godo? There's a high chance he has nothing to fetch if you draw embercleave...

4. Late game: subterranean tremors and oblivion stone?

5. Are you still running heroic intervention since deflecting swat?

As for lands, I'm personally testing out Inkmoth Nexus. I haven't gotten many uses out of it, but I like it so far.

. That's interesting: 10 infect damage if you have vine of vastwood.

Thanks for taking the time. I like the fact that kalonian hydra and verdurous gearhulk both take out a single player with one extra combat. So you'll have more options for one hit KOs.

There's also a new 6/6 trampler that draws cards in m21!

[plushpenguin]

So, for M21 I have two cards to test

1) Elder Gargaroth. A 6/6 trample that draws a card on attack (when are we choosing any other mode?). This isn't bad and a good start, but if I want that mythical big green fatty + card draw engine overlap that I'm looking for, I would need something that draws more cards than this but is worse on its own to make up for it. If left to itself, it will draw at least two cards and be a meaningful contributor to the board, putting it on par with Harmonize. May cut Ignite the Future and have an extra fatty slot for increased deck stability.

2) Fiery Emancipation. So, damage doublers aren't usually as good as extra combats because extra combats do six times the base damage of a creature instead of 4 times for damage doublers. However, this is a damage tripler, meaning that having this out now breaks the 1-hit kill threshold (or at least the 30 damage threshold) for a lot of the creatures in this deck. Additionally, it sticks around unlike an extra combat. The main downside is being less effective at eliminating multiple players in a single turn, but you need to stack some serious damage amp to get to that point anyway with a single extra combat.

[SGAN]

Would you consider adding Hydra Omnivore back if you do run Fiery Emancipation? Would be a pretty sweet table wipe if you get it to connect on one opponent.

[plushpenguin]

Would you consider adding Hydra Omnivore back if you do run Fiery Emancipation? Would be a pretty sweet table wipe if you get it to connect on one opponent.

I probably won't. I've been actually trying to lower the curve of the fatties as much as reasonably possible. In mana curve terms, there isn't a huge difference between 5 and 6 mana, but in terms of leaving up protection for a creature, the difference is massive.

[LDB]

Would you consider adding Hydra Omnivore back if you do run Fiery Emancipation? Would be a pretty sweet table wipe if you get it to connect on one opponent.

I probably won't. I've been actually trying to lower the curve of the fatties as much as reasonably possible. In mana curve terms, there isn't a huge difference between 5 and 6 mana, but in terms of leaving up protection for a creature, the difference is massive.

You're so right. Protection has been a game changer for me playing this deck again after 4 years. Can't tell you how often I was able to protect Xenagos with this. I'm going to try ranger's guile over blossoming defense due to the mana cost.

[SGAN]

You're so right. Protection has been a game changer for me playing this deck again after 4 years. Can't tell you how often I was able to protect Xenagos with this. I'm going to try ranger's guile over blossoming defense due to the mana cost.

Aren't they the same card except blossoming defense gives an extra +1/+1 (or are you referring to heroic intervention)?

[LDB]

You're so right. Protection has been a game changer for me playing this deck again after 4 years. Can't tell you how often I was able to protect Xenagos with this. I'm going to try ranger's guile over blossoming defense due to the mana cost.

Aren't they the same card except blossoming defense gives an extra +1/+1 (or are you referring to heroic intervention)?

Yes, ranger's guile, blossoming defense and vines of vastwood: all in.

[plushpenguin]

You're so right. Protection has been a game changer for me playing this deck again after 4 years. Can't tell you how often I was able to protect Xenagos with this. I'm going to try ranger's guile over blossoming defense due to the mana cost.

Yes, the 1 mana protection is so good because you don't lose much valuable tempo in running it. Heroic Intervention does have the big advantage of saving Xenagos from enchantment exile, but 2 mana is a big downside. Right now my paper version is on Blood Moons and Veil of Summer because I don't play this deck except against higher powered tables these days.

Veil is busted good. It does miss on some cards, but when it works it's a blowout.

[darrenhabib]

I've started brewing a deck with Neyith of the Dire Hunt at the helm, and I remembered this thread and so searched for it to see if there were any goodies I could apply to my build as they obviously have synergy together.

Neyith of the Dire Hunt feels like a slam-dunk for your deck. Of note you could name "Dragons" for Frontier Siege if wanting to get value out of your flying creatures..an option anyway.

I noticed that you don't have a primer tag, and we auto-include those that already had primers on MTGSalvation who request it. Do you want to be added to the primers?

[plushpenguin]

I've started brewing a deck with Neyith of the Dire Hunt at the helm, and I remembered this thread and so searched for it to see if there were any goodies I could apply to my build as they obviously have synergy together.

Neyith of the Dire Hunt feels like a slam-dunk for your deck. Of note you could name "Dragons" for Frontier Siege if wanting to get value out of your flying creatures..an option anyway.

I noticed that you don't have a primer tag, and we auto-include those that already had primers on MTGSalvation who request it. Do you want to be added to the primers?

So, despite their similarities, Neyith is much more of a board control card than a pure aggro card. The card draw + 3 mana for a power doubling activation and the lack of granted haste changes quite a bit on how you want to approach the deck. I suspect a Neyith deck will be slower but have tons of options for luring enemy creatures and such. However, if you try to build it for straight aggro, it will probably be worse. So, in subtle ways, the two cards pull in different directions.

I never really had a primer tag, but I also never felt there was a need for it. However, you can raise it up for submission if you like... I simply never saw the point.


Lastly, I'm revamping the antiquated portions of the deck. A little bit of the ramp package was definitely in need of an update. Here are my plans for post-Jumpstart. The cards cut are either underperforming or the most antiquated and outdated parts of the deck by now.

- Sylvan Scrying (basically only ever gets tomb and very rarely cavern)
- Nature's Lore (double ramping starting turn 1 is much more important now)
- Ignite the Future (it was usually just a worse harmonize)

+ Elder Gargaroth (not amazing, but it's like putting something close to harmonize on an attacker. Plus, it increases beef count making the deck more consistent. Situationally good against the rare aggro deck from the opponent)
+ Arbor Elf (1-drop. I have 10 forests and 8 fetch. This will rarely be bad and sometimes amazing)
+ Overgrowth (dedicated 3 drop ramp but it adds a lot of mana and doesn't slow you down when playing it late)

BM build ONLY
- Hellkite Tyrant (In more competitive tables this creature's benefits are immensely situational)
+ Allosaurus Shepard (it does miss on important red creatures, but it does permit the card draw to be safe and it allows my interaction to go through)

It seems like I'm accepting more and more suggestions from a certain person (jaishivajaj) who views this thread often. His suggestions in retrospect were more than simply pretty good.

[jaishivajai]

Does this mean I finally get to graduate from apprentice to journeyman?
Wrote a much longer response and it didn't post for some reason.

Neyith of the Dire Hunt from jumpstart set seems playable. If you have 7 mana it become a cantrip with a beater and Xenagos. The possibility of repeating it is nice.

Unleash Fury looks playable too. One shot kill with Atarka, Ghalta or Emrakul. Would work with Embercleave equipped to something as well. (I know you don't play some of those cards, but...)

Seems like they can't help but print really great cards for Xenagos every set. I feel like the deck is SO much more powerful than it was a couple of years ago.

Happy stomping!

[jaishivajai]

Potential diamond in the rough: Brash Taunter

Now I know your instinct is to say it doesn't fit in the deck, but hear me out. This is not Stuffy doll, you can aim the damage wherever you want.

You may be thinking "This doesn't do anything the turn it comes out," however it does make us basically unattackable. No opponent can afford to lose extra life by attacking us, especially if we threaten to turn Xenagos toward them in addition to blocking with Brash Taunter. Indestructible, so it will patiently wait for us to play a beater for it to target. A repeatable double damage effect which can split the damage seems too good to be true!

This card has potential for political deals as well. Though Xenagos is not a very political commander, this card could help take out a more threatening player than us. Opponents can just swing into this and you redirect the damage to the person everyone wants dead even more than you.

Final note: This provides extra value to Chandra's Ignition and Blasphemous Act and will kill someone with Fiery Emancipation. Your 12/12 deals 36 damage to Brash Taunter, then it deals 108 damage to another player.

Though I can see people playing in a cEDH meta perhaps passing on this, it's ripe for the picking for most Xenagos players. This is yet another card that points me in the direction of simply loading up on beaters in my deck due to the synergy provided by cards that care about creatures. (I'm at 20 beat down creatures currently.)

[SGAN]

Potential diamond in the rough: Brash Taunter

Now I know your instinct is to say it doesn't fit in the deck, but hear me out. This is not Stuffy doll, you can aim the damage wherever you want.

You may be thinking "This doesn't do anything the turn it comes out," however it does make us basically unattackable. No opponent can afford to lose extra life by attacking us, especially if we threaten to turn Xenagos toward them in addition to blocking with Brash Taunter. Indestructible, so it will patiently wait for us to play a beater for it to target. A repeatable double damage effect which can split the damage seems too good to be true!

This card has potential for political deals as well. Though Xenagos is not a very political commander, this card could help take out a more threatening player than us. Opponents can just swing into this and you redirect the damage to the person everyone wants dead even more than you.

Final note: This provides extra value to Chandra's Ignition and Blasphemous Act and will kill someone with Fiery Emancipation. Your 12/12 deals 36 damage to Brash Taunter, then it deals 108 damage to another player.

Though I can see people playing in a cEDH meta perhaps passing on this, it's ripe for the picking for most Xenagos players. This is yet another card that points me in the direction of simply loading up on beaters in my deck due to the synergy provided by cards that care about creatures. (I'm at 20 beat down creatures currently.)

I don't know, 5 mana seems like a lot for an over-glorified blocker. Where I think this card would shine is abusing the fight mechanic for the 3 mana ability (with one of your creatures post-combat main phase after Xenagos buff) or with another "fight" card, as a pseudo-double strike. However, I feel like that is a lot of mana for that type of payout.

[weltkrieg]

Brash Taunter has a ton of potential in a red pillow fort style deck (it is possible to make them but they are uniquely red). I don't think that a deck that wants to be attacking constantly really wants this in the 99.

[jaishivajai]

Brash taunter may have been reaching a bit, but unleash fury and Neyith of the Dire Hunt [/card] look like possible includes. Unleash fury can be played alongside a creature late game at which point it should kill most people you point it at. Also the possibility to play alongside chandra's ignition or an extra combat spell. Also it's a one shot kill with the cards mentioned. The cost of just 2 mana to basically get the same amount of damage we would get through an extra combat phase spell is amazing.

Neyith of the Dire Hunt seems good when it can draw us cards. At it's ceiling, it's a 7 drop that gets us double damage (nearly an extra combat step) and cantrip the turn it comes out. With 7 mana, it's floor is still attack in with 6 power/toughness and draw a card. There is usually someone at the table who can't handle 6 power coming at them. Additionally, there's always the possibility we can just sneak this guy out turn 3 before xenagos hits the table. Turn 4 Xenagos attack in for 6, turn 5 beatstick attack, turn 6 just double the beater's power with Neyith instead of playing another creature. We must also consider the fact that sometimes, people just WANT to block us. How many times have you been screwed over by some tiny deathtouch creature keeping you from attacking the player you want to kill most? Or people who just want death triggers to occur? This evens the odds when attacking those types of players.

I feel like it's good to lean into cards that have some kind of card draw/advantage as the games I lose with Xenagos are the games when I run out of gas.The more I lean my deck towards more beat sticks and draw card/advantage the more the deck wins.

My deck is more budget friendly than Penguin's, so perhaps these slots just get taken by better cards. So I may be off here, but someone tell me why we shouldn't play these cards!

[SGAN]

I do like Unleash Fury, serves a slightly different niche than Temur Battle Rage in terms of instant-speed doublers. I like Temur Battle Rage because it gives trample and eliminates the threat of death touch, but it has the downside of being dead if your creature already has double strike (either intrinsically or from something like Embercleave). Whereas Unleash Fury doubles regardless and is also synergistic with power-based draw.

What are everyone's thoughts on Radha, Heart of Keld? I know Courser of Kruphix wasn't run, but Radha offers the advantage of pseudo-draw (by reducing land draws) without the disadvantage of revealing the top card, lets you know your next card in advance even if it isn't a land, and also doubles as a beater/mana-sink late if you find yourself running out of gas or fatties. Of course, it would be nicer if the first strike was trample, but we have enough ways to give trample, like Kessig, etc.

[jaishivajai]

I do like Unleash Fury, serves a slightly different niche than Temur Battle Rage in terms of instant-speed doublers. I like Temur Battle Rage because it gives trample and eliminates the threat of death touch, but it has the downside of being dead if your creature already has double strike (either intrinsically or from something like Embercleave). Whereas Unleash Fury doubles regardless and is also synergistic with power-based draw.

What are everyone's thoughts on Radha, Heart of Keld? I know Courser of Kruphix wasn't run, but Radha offers the advantage of pseudo-draw (by reducing land draws) without the disadvantage of revealing the top card, lets you know your next card in advance even if it isn't a land, and also doubles as a beater/mana-sink late if you find yourself running out of gas or fatties. Of course, it would be nicer if the first strike was trample, but we have enough ways to give trample, like Kessig, etc.

I forgot that Unleash Fury also has synergy with extra card draw, thanks for that.

I have been subscribing to PlushPenguin's philosopy for a while and it's been working out. The way I see Radha, Heart of Keld through this lens is like this:
Radha is not worth it. One of the goals of this Xenagos build is to not turn Xenagos into a creature unless absolutely necessary. Exiling an enchantment is incredibly rare in Magic, so Xenagos always stays out unless it becomes a creature.
Radha's apparent card advantage is negated by much more powerful draw spells already available to us. That, coupled with the 2 devotion issue means this card isn't worth a spot. We already have more powerful 3 drop creatures available to us taking up that slot as well, so it's not as though we need the creature. I would probably never end up using Radha's power pump ability in a game. The deck has much better things to do with 6 mana. The lack of trample or other evasion is the final nail in the coffin.

You should post your deck list or a link to your Xenagos thread if you have one.

P.S. My Xenagos deck is undergoing a major upgrade right now! I'll post the list when it's done.

[SGAN]

I forgot that Unleash Fury also has synergy with extra card draw, thanks for that.

I have been subscribing to PlushPenguin's philosopy for a while and it's been working out. The way I see Radha, Heart of Keld through this lens is like this:
Radha is not worth it. One of the goals of this Xenagos build is to not turn Xenagos into a creature unless absolutely necessary. Exiling an enchantment is incredibly rare in Magic, so Xenagos always stays out unless it becomes a creature.
Radha's apparent card advantage is negated by much more powerful draw spells already available to us. That, coupled with the 2 devotion issue means this card isn't worth a spot. We already have more powerful 3 drop creatures available to us taking up that slot as well, so it's not as though we need the creature. I would probably never end up using Radha's power pump ability in a game. The deck has much better things to do with 6 mana. The lack of trample or other evasion is the final nail in the coffin.

You should post your deck list or a link to your Xenagos thread if you have one.

P.S. My Xenagos deck is undergoing a major upgrade right now! I'll post the list when it's done.

Thanks for your insight! I totally agree with the devotion issue and I need to keep an eye on that. Here is a link to my deck:

https://deckstats.net/decks/152497/1588615-xenagod

I've been using this primer as a model of course, but I do have some budgetary constraints that should be obvious when looking at the mana base (lot of basics!) and the glaring exclusions of cards like Sylvan Library that would really help the deck hum. I also haven't gotten any of the new M21 cards yet, but have been looking into cards like Elder Gargaroth, Fiery Emancipation, and the aforementioned Unleash Fury. Advice is always welcome, and I look forward to seeing your upgrades as well.

[jaishivajai]

Looks like you are well on your way! I too have had budget constraints when building the deck, I just finally have some more money to spend on it. I've been upgrading Xenagos for about 6 years now and it's been well worth it.

With budget constraints, you should be playing 37 lands at least. Easy trade, Arbor elves for land. Plushpenguin gets away with 36 due toAncient Tomb and multiple cards that search for a specific land. W/out ancient tomb and cheap search for land cards, play 37 lands. We need to get to six mana on turn 5 or earlier given the power of Xenagos's plus ability. In fact, you will be served better by a Gruul Signet over a llanowar elves as well. Gruul signet adds no devotion, and can recoup some mana the turn it comes out. Mana ramp on creatures is just worse than ramp on artifacts due to boardwipes and creature removal being more prevalent.

I would add another Beater or more if you can. Without Sylvan Library and Mirri's Guile we are forced to rely on a higher number of beatsticks given we can't just filter ourselves to one. More beaters means more opportunities to play cards that sacrifice a creature or look at a creature's power to draw a card. I like Honored Hydra as a budget beater that provides the exact card advantage we need, big trample creatures. Take out a protection spell for another beatstick, get that number up to 17 and you'll be doing fine. PlushPenguin's meta is super intense hence the requirement for more protection spells. You could also loose Signal the clans for another beatstick.

Also ditch swiftfoot boots for another beatstick. You don't need to protect Xenagos if he's not a creature. You don't need to give your beatsticks hexproof if you just always have one in hand. For this reason, extra beaters are better than protection spells.

Happy stomping!

[SGAN]

Looks like you are well on your way! I too have had budget constraints when building the deck, I just finally have some more money to spend on it. I've been upgrading Xenagos for about 6 years now and it's been well worth it.

With budget constraints, you should be playing 37 lands at least. Easy trade, Arbor elves for land. Plushpenguin gets away with 36 due toAncient Tomb and multiple cards that search for a specific land. W/out ancient tomb and cheap search for land cards, play 37 lands. We need to get to six mana on turn 5 or earlier given the power of Xenagos's plus ability. In fact, you will be served better by a Gruul Signet over a llanowar elves as well. Gruul signet adds no devotion, and can recoup some mana the turn it comes out. Mana ramp on creatures is just worse than ramp on artifacts due to boardwipes and creature removal being more prevalent.

I would add another Beater or more if you can. Without Sylvan Library and Mirri's Guile we are forced to rely on a higher number of beatsticks given we can't just filter ourselves to one. More beaters means more opportunities to play cards that sacrifice a creature or look at a creature's power to draw a card. I like Honored Hydra as a budget beater that provides the exact card advantage we need, big trample creatures. Take out a protection spell for another beatstick, get that number up to 17 and you'll be doing fine. PlushPenguin's meta is super intense hence the requirement for more protection spells. You could also loose Signal the clans for another beatstick.

Also ditch swiftfoot boots for another beatstick. You don't need to protect Xenagos if he's not a creature. You don't need to give your beatsticks hexproof if you just always have one in hand. For this reason, extra beaters are better than protection spells.

Happy stomping!

Thanks for the feedback! All reasonable changes