Xenagos, God of 2x Beatdown

jaishivajai
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Post by jaishivajai » 4 years ago

I forgot about the grabbing birds with green sun's zenith. That is pretty handy.

Thanks for that explosive speed and power vs. consistency explanation. My meta sounds much less punishing than yours. There may be one or two players at the table trying to play some more intense control. I just kill them first. It's easy in a counterspell light meta. My Xenagos is playing in an easier meta. That's why I've been trying to just get that consistent turn 4 xenagos turn 5 6 drop crafted into nearly every opening hand. That simple formula wins games, so long as I have access to other creatures during the game. Xenagos is my most focused deck at this point. I just keep taking answers out of the deck for consistency. Besides the too good to pass up removal, it's very bare bones. I'm even considering dropping blasphemous act for another extra combat spell. I can usually just kill someone I think might be problematic usually.

I too like the new green removal spell. Not as much as I like decimate though. That card is just too good to pass up. I find it very rarely lacks targets to go off.

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Post by jaishivajai » 4 years ago

plushpenguin wrote:
4 years ago
Oh yeah, the green castle is going in. It's low opportunity cost and the restriction isn't that bad as long as we happen to hit a monogreen creature. If we don't, it still taps for a color while entering untapped.
Not so sure how often it will come in untapped. I guess you can always turn one this land. It just doesn't seem that helpful considering you only have 3 mono green 6 drop creatures. Then another 3 7 drops it could be useful on. So 6 out of 98 cards to pair up with the castle. The odds of that all lining up to ramp you into a green creature a turn early seems low compared to this entering tapped. Then again, you have almost no tapped lands.

I suppose late game when you have plenty of extra mana it could help out with extra combat phases. I just worry about the coloring fixing at that point because we so often want double red.

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Post by plushpenguin » 4 years ago

jaishivajai wrote:
4 years ago
plushpenguin wrote:
4 years ago
Oh yeah, the green castle is going in. It's low opportunity cost and the restriction isn't that bad as long as we happen to hit a monogreen creature. If we don't, it still taps for a color while entering untapped.
Not so sure how often it will come in untapped. I guess you can always turn one this land. It just doesn't seem that helpful considering you only have 3 mono green 6 drop creatures. Then another 3 7 drops it could be useful on. So 6 out of 98 cards to pair up with the castle. The odds of that all lining up to ramp you into a green creature a turn early seems low compared to this entering tapped. Then again, you have almost no tapped lands.

I suppose late game when you have plenty of extra mana it could help out with extra combat phases. I just worry about the coloring fixing at that point because we so often want double red.
You make a good point. Even with the fetch-dual manabase, I can't afford to have that land come in tapped. Having only two of them minimizes the chances of me getting hosed by drawing one in the mid stage of the game and the payoff for those two lands is huge when I get to use them.

Only 3-6 creatures that benefit from this is not a lot, especially if I'm starting to cut some of the utility ones.

Also, for my meta, it isn't necessarily counterspells, but just removal in general. Removal paired with decks that know how to take advantage of the tempo swing.... and the fact that my version is still known to be scary and often focused down whenever possible. Throw in things like Blind Obedience or scary combo pieces and I also have to justify the removal. If I weren't worried about those things, I'd definitely run Decimate over Hull Breach. 4 mana is a lot to justify the versatility and destructive power, although still a lot better than that new and similar card in B/G. Even so, I could still probably justify it.

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Post by plushpenguin » 4 years ago

I have decided upon the following adds

+ Kenrith's Transformation - removal that cantrips is too good to ignore. Also can't ignore the side benefit of invoking the horror of Oko supremacy.
+ Dockside Extortionist - This is... a fairly inconsistent early game card that is still in testing. However, in the midgame it would likely generate a stupendous amount of mana.
+ Escape to the Wilds - As long as you flip 2 lands and not a metric ton of fatties, this card will dig 5 and allow you to play 3-4 of those cards. The extra land really helps play those extra cards that were found.
+ Return of the Wildspeaker - It's an instant speed draw effect. Instant speed is great because they can try to kill our guy and we still get our cards.

Cuts
- Tireless Tracker - It costs so much to get that CA from the clue. It can only be done when the hand is very slow.
- Oracle of Mul Daya - This is a luxury that is not necessarily needed. Getting extra lands out of the deck is always good, but burst mana that sticks around is better for this deck.
- Nature's Will - This card is powerful, but is really at its best when played on curve and not always practical when off-curve.
- Balefire Dragon - Out of all the creatures of this deck, this one never killed anyone. Wiping creatures looks fine, but isn't always practical in the time it takes to get this out.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 years ago

Sensible swaps all around. It's surprising how mana-hungry the Tracker clues are. I keep viewing Kenrith's Transformation through the lens of commander removal, but just treating it as a conventional answer that cantrips seems to be more sensible.
 
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Post by plushpenguin » 4 years ago

I just came up with the downright most insane genius idea.

Running Godo, Bandit Warlord + Embercleave.

Before throne, Godo was an... okay if slow but lacking threat. However, with this new piece of equipment that I threw into my own Godo deck and tested (and found it quite overperforming), I realized that now Godo is BY FAR the best threat in the deck now.

If you run out Godo, you fetch Embercleave (No other equipment needed). This makes him a 4/4 doublestrike trample, which is doubled to 8 doublestrike trample. His first attack will do 16 damage and then trigger his extra combat. His next combat will do 16 doublestrike trample.

He essentially does more damage than Malignus while going THROUGH enemy blockers. He does 48 trample damage BY HIMSELF with ZERO help and if you do get another combat, the game is pretty much over..

Even in the situation where they have either creature or artifact removal, you still have... either a damage amplifier.... or a damage amplifier.. While you would much rather have the godo to not need to spend mana, even having your opponents survive this initial thrust still makes the followup attacks significantly more dangerous than they would otherwise be.

The only time godo becomes outright BAD is when you draw BOTH of the pieces.. which is not likely and WELL worth the risk.

This should be absolutely STANDARD ISSUE for all Xenagod decks going forward.

- World at War (the only 5 mana extra combat.. 5 is a big difference from 4)
- Plated Crusher (cutting the 7 drops now)
+ Godo, Bandit Warlord
+ Embercleave

I do want to cut a creature, but it is either the crusher, atarka, or omnivore. All others earn their keep.

I'm also now borrowing someone else's tech and using Time of Need now that we have such an insane payoff to get from it. The fact that it gets emrakul too is even better.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 years ago

That's a good catch, and makes sense to include.

Is Atarka endangered because of the whole seven cost thing?
 
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Post by plushpenguin » 4 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
4 years ago
That's a good catch, and makes sense to include.

Is Atarka endangered because of the whole seven cost thing?
Actually, upon advice from a friend, I decided that the cut would be Etali, Primal Storm. While it gives a large amount of random value, Godo gives a very defined value while reliably completely eliminating a player it can reach.

Adding Time of Need gives me a tutor that can get a ramp option in Selvala..

I also tested Godo today. He over performed on every level. Even when he or his equipment was answered, the card left over made the follow up threaten lethal damage.

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Post by Meech » 4 years ago

I have been a big fan of your deck for quite some time and I am glad to see Godo making it in. I have always run him in my version of your build because I am lacking a mana crypt, we house ban sol ring, and my sensei is usually in an artifact deck. This left room for Godo, Loxodon Warhammer, and Sword of Light and Shadow. Now that Embercleave exists it will likely be added in with consideration of the cuts you made. Thanks for keeping this thread alive. This is my favorite commander and I unfortunately don't get to play as much as I would like.

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Post by plushpenguin » 4 years ago

I'm trying out something new. I'm trying to make a list that can seamlessly run a Blood Moon package and try to run it out on turn 2 as pre-Xenagod disruption. I'm also running anti-blue tech because in metas where this is necessary, counterspells and stopping big blue spells is more important than stopping an StP.

The changes so far are as follows for such a list

- Caustic Caterpillar
- Blood Mist
- Sakura-Tribe Elder
- Hull Breach
- Mountain

+ Magus of the Moon
+ Blood Moon
+ Wild Growth
+ Force of Vigor
+ Forest
BEATS
Approximate Total Cost:

For such a meta, there are really only two ways of winning the game in a timely manner: One-shots and combat chaining. My current list uses combat-chaining as a slower but more dependable way of pushing lethal damage. One-shot lists tend to lack ways of getting through random blockers. I just feel like I need more damage amp with this kind of list...

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Post by jaishivajai » 4 years ago

That's a pretty sexy find there plushpenguin. I will add that little trick for sure. Embercleave seems pretty decent on it's own anyway.

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Post by plushpenguin » 4 years ago

Tested deck with moons included. The deck.. doesn't seem to be significantly hampered by them as long as you use your fetches to get basic forests if your plan is to lock out colors.

Also, I may be eyeing a Sylvan Tutor for this deck at some point. Hopefully the increased availability will lower the price point a bit. I'm at the point where I'm less reliant on 4cmc enchantments (and therefore can afford to pay the 1 while still being on curve) and I'd much rather have either hexproof or the maximum damage monsters whenever possible. If I could get myself 5 copies of Godo I would.

This should also make the deck a little less reliant on somewhat-expensive damage amplification to work, although I'm still very rarely sad to see it!

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Any thoughts of using Questing Beast? Fogs are pretty rampant in my meta and that 'damage cannot be prevented' got my attention, plus his anti-chump technology. Doesn't have trample but it's pretty pushed for a 4/4, especially since your men can now ignore Planeswalkers and accidentally knock them out. Or is it more 'My answer to Planeswalkers is Player Removal'?

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Post by plushpenguin » 4 years ago

Tevesh wrote:
4 years ago
Any thoughts of using Questing Beast? Fogs are pretty rampant in my meta and that 'damage cannot be prevented' got my attention, plus his anti-chump technology. Doesn't have trample but it's pretty pushed for a 4/4, especially since your men can now ignore Planeswalkers and accidentally knock them out. Or is it more 'My answer to Planeswalkers is Player Removal'?
I have rarely been finding re-occurring fogs in any regularity. Even the lands that stop attacks now have additional answers in the moons.

It is indeed pretty pushed for a 4/4, but the overall hitting power of the big creature is still pretty important. If it doesn't have that, then it needs to generate a solid resource advantage for me to want it.

Right now, the high priority is to increase the consistency of finding the creatures that can do 20+ damage with evasion built in. 3 attacks for lethal on one player is far too slow for modern standards without some other bonus thrown in.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 years ago

plushpenguin wrote:
4 years ago
Also, I may be eyeing a Sylvan Tutor for this deck at some point. Hopefully the increased availability will lower the price point a bit.
Huh? The what now? This hasn't been reprinted, to the best of my knowledge.
 
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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
4 years ago
plushpenguin wrote:
4 years ago
Also, I may be eyeing a Sylvan Tutor for this deck at some point. Hopefully the increased availability will lower the price point a bit.
Huh? The what now? This hasn't been reprinted, to the best of my knowledge.
One of the newest judge foils is Sylvan Tutor.

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Post by plushpenguin » 4 years ago

I did a bit of a reorganization of the first post actually incorporating all of the changes made in the past couple of months. If I want to, I actually could submit it for primer status.

Godo... got a section by himself because of how much terrible terrible damage he can cause.

I also just realized that I had changed 10 cards in the last three months alone. Throne was super kind to this deck, even more so than WAR, and that set was unexpectedly kind to this deck.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 years ago

As a completely unbiased third party, I recommend submission ;)
 
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Post by jaishivajai » 4 years ago

Get ready to make more room! Terror of Mount Velus was spoiled.
cards/theros-beyond-death/56565-terror-of-mount-velus

I can imagine this ending people. It may also be a card that could be a reason to turn Xenagos as a creature depending on the situation. I can see this guy helping take out 2 people at once with Xenagos.

Just imagine him as your second creature coming down with a 7 power trample creature out already. 34 damage if you give him the boost from Xenagos. Also he deals more damage on it's own without the boost than most of our other creatures. 10 damage in the air vs. 6-7 ground trample seems good.

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Post by jaishivajai » 4 years ago

plushpenguin wrote:
4 years ago
I did a bit of a reorganization of the first post actually incorporating all of the changes made in the past couple of months. If I want to, I actually could submit it for primer status.

Godo... got a section by himself because of how much terrible terrible damage he can cause.

I also just realized that I had changed 10 cards in the last three months alone. Throne was super kind to this deck, even more so than WAR, and that set was unexpectedly kind to this deck.
Nice! I have noticed the deck going through quite a few changes. I see you picked up Wild growth and Time of Need
those cards have been doing great for me. I go for Dragonlord Atarka or Emrakul if I can cast her. 2 mana tutor for your most powerful creatures can't be beat. It's so cheap you can often cast both it and the creature late game.

The godo, bandit warlord and embercleave upgrade is insane. As I typed that I realized that time of need should probably be used for that combo in most cases. I have yet to pick up my copies of those cards.

Great job on the deck. Looks Primer worthy to me!

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Post by plushpenguin » 4 years ago

jaishivajai wrote:
4 years ago
Get ready to make more room! Terror of Mount Velus was spoiled.
cards/theros-beyond-death/56565-terror-of-mount-velus

I can imagine this ending people. It may also be a card that could be a reason to turn Xenagos as a creature depending on the situation. I can see this guy helping take out 2 people at once with Xenagos.

Just imagine him as your second creature coming down with a 7 power trample creature out already. 34 damage if you give him the boost from Xenagos. Also he deals more damage on it's own without the boost than most of our other creatures. 10 damage in the air vs. 6-7 ground trample seems good.
This is another 2-shot creature that is situationally better than Atarka. This may make it in and actually makes the density of 2-shotting evasion creatures rather high. The main downside is that most of them tend to cost 7 mana.

This is particularly good with boar (and also Sneak Attack), and that may push it over the edge for me for inclusion over Atarka here. Having the option to go wide with the deck while not NEEDING to do so is also good to have. If you run out two big things, indeed it can represent an extra 12 (nonevasive) and +7 (evasive) damage. Being not-green is not a downside as you basically never GSZ for this. Also this isn't a prime Time of Need target.

As far as evasive 7-drop 2-shots, we have the following:
Atarka, World Render
Scourge of the Throne (6cmc and more damage!)
Voracious Hydra (X=5 or more to reach threshold)
Ghalta, Primal Hunger (needs to stick. Bad by himself)

Adding another to that list seems pretty good.

Also important to note: The more double strike you have, the less good the enablers become. So running godo, atarka, and this may make cards like Blood Mist cuttable.

All in all, this card is really good. You're paying nothing for free damage amplification and it still serves well by itself. I'm putting it in.

(Playing overrun goat into this makes you do 26+32+40 damage as Xenagos is likely a creature)

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 years ago

I'm honestly a little surprised you're not running Voracious Hydra - the seven cost can't be that prohibitive if you talked yourself into jamming the new dragon by the end of your post. These sort of standalone two-shot evasive haymakers feel like a reliable way to pressure the table, as you don't really need anything else to come together to explode people. That said, it's easy for me to spout nonsense without actually having a feel for how the deck runs. In my Ghired, the 5-to-7 CMC timing gap is so huge I don't even run Avenger of Zendikar. That said, I often have to front a little extra mana on the turn itself to make copies. Where was I going with this? I don't know. Sorry :P
 
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Post by plushpenguin » 4 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
4 years ago
I'm honestly a little surprised you're not running Voracious Hydra - the seven cost can't be that prohibitive if you talked yourself into jamming the new dragon by the end of your post. These sort of standalone two-shot evasive haymakers feel like a reliable way to pressure the table, as you don't really need anything else to come together to explode people. That said, it's easy for me to spout nonsense without actually having a feel for how the deck runs. In my Ghired, the 5-to-7 CMC timing gap is so huge I don't even run Avenger of Zendikar. That said, I often have to front a little extra mana on the turn itself to make copies. Where was I going with this? I don't know. Sorry :P
Right now I'm actually testing voracious over omnivore. Right now I'm simply at the point where I can generally assume I only have three productive attack steps in a reasonably high-powered game. Three is not enough for even the 2-shotting creatures to be amazing, especially at 7 mana. However, I have to run them because nothing else is better.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 years ago

Relatable. It seems that each set we get to ooh and aah at new ridiculous fat being printed, yet then very little of it turns out to be relevant enough to crack EDH aggro anyway. Kalonian Hydra is to my Ghired what Godo is to this deck, and after that I'm stuck running various suboptimal stuff like Archangel of Thune and Thunderfoot Baloth. Still better than copying Wurmcoil Engine or something. If overcosted two-shotters are the best you can do, I guess you're stuck with overcosted two-shotters for the time being.
 
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Post by plushpenguin » 4 years ago

Minor update

- Cinder Glade
+ Verdant Catacombs

I have a copy of Verdant Catacombs than I plan to move from another deck. Cinder Glade as a third fetchable dual land is not needed and it is really not desirable in the blood moon build. I also don't want to risk it entering tapped.

On the note of aggro decks, despite the very high hurdle to make reasonable improvements to the deck, this is still one of the best aggro decks that doesn't chain turns.

Also, I might actually be going to run Overgrowth depending on how often I can chain spells on 4 lands. The likelihood is.. high.

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