Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength

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Kapusta
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Post by Kapusta » 3 years ago

Overall I agree with you. Foretell is cool but nothing so far strikes me as good with it. The lands are meh for their effects and strains our landbase. Seems imma pass on this set's cards unless the last few spoilers are good.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

A few I think you might have missed:

graven lore - decent draw spell at instant. Might be hard to find enough snow sources, but the tapped snow lands are an interesting budgety-ish option for people who may want to run a loam fetch package without shelling out for duals. Personally I'm more of an engine guy so I doubt I'll run it, but it does bear mentioning.

Toski, Bearer of Secrets - decent draw engine, albeit one that's fairly unusual for the deck. But will it merit removal? Idk, might not in this deck, in which case it's a good semi-reliable draw source that you can send into blockers when you don't need cards. The fact that your opponents can usually easily turn it off is a nice de-threat-ifier, and the fact that you can often turn it right back on with a board wipe makes it potentially pretty effective. The biggest downside is that I suspect it'll be a bit of a groaner in other decks which can better abuse it, which will make it appear more threatening than it ought to be.

Mystic Reflection - my "hmmmmm" card for the set. This seems like it has some potential trickiness with Phelddagrif. In particular:
-you can turn someone else's just-cast commander into a random hippo token (or worse, if available).
-you can give someone a bunch of token copies of something more threatening in order to help them turn it into a 2-person game. Imagine someone plays avenger of zendikar, and with all your mana untapped you go "hey, Joe, do you want to kill the other 2 players on your next turn as long as you leave me alone? You do? Great. Have 5 avenger of zendikar tokens and 40 plant tokens."

(re-reads the card as I'm writing this...where did this "the next time" clause come from :P)

Ok, I'm a moron. So it can't create a bunch of tokens of the same thing unless something is creating multiple tokens at once (probably a good thing since otherwise the avenger example would just result in a tie game lol). You could still use it to give someone a single token copy, or multiples if they play something that creates multiple tokens. Could also use it to turn Phelddagrif into something particularly spicy in some situations.

Overall it's probably worse than, like, Mirrorweave though tbh. Hmm. Hmmm hmmm hmmmmmm.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Kapusta
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Post by Kapusta » 3 years ago

You know, Mystic Reflection may just very well be worth it. I didn't know it works for the whole table in that the next creature(s) entering will be that copy. Floor is turning someones commander or utility creature into a hippo, and ceiling is turning a high value planeswalker or eldrazi into a hippo. Also since commander damage follows the specific card, I could see our Phelddagrif turning into a large threat to speed up our commander damage win.
This card is def my hmm card now too.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Well if you're looking mostly at the ability to turn a creature/planeswalker into a hippo or whatever, it'd compare pretty unfavorably to counterspells under most circumstances. So I think you've gotta be getting decent value from casting it as a way to strategically give a powerful creature to an opponent to really justify it.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Dunadain
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Post by Dunadain » 3 years ago

But unlike a counter spell it doesn't just put a commander back in the command zone, maybe not as good as a stasis enchantment but it seems incredible at instant speed.
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Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

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Chromaticus
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Post by Chromaticus » 3 years ago

I've made my own fairly budget version and wanted to get some feedback on cards that I'm missing that are "must haves" and on overall ratios.
Decklist

Commander

Approximate Total Cost:

Played a couple games -- one a 3 player with Pir / Toothy and a Ruric Thar deck. Was doing pretty well until I decided to play loose and let Ruric Thar resolve. After that, every problem that came up was costing 6 life. Choked on the 3rd white source with hour of revelation and planar cleansing in hand. Still, would have had a lot more time if I had done better threat assessment on the Ruric Thar.

Did get to win a counter war against Toothy's Lab Man and then knock her out with an Into the Roil on her 82/82 Toothy, so that was sweet :)

Second game was a lot more interesting --

Same Ruric Thar player, that new G/B elf deck with some upgrades, and a highly tuned Rograkh / Jeska partners deck.

Things came out fast with Rograkh, and everyone took 12 damage on turn 3 with his Lethliss, fast mana / jeska combination.

I was able to play pretty permissively, and was gifted a couple plant tokens to deter attackers from a Dowsing Dagger -- people were very vocal about not targeting the Phelddagrif player, which was awesome.

Countered a couple key spells, and played a wrath that got everyone back in similar conditions -- Favorite play was turning off three attacks from Nylea, Nylea, and Xenagos with a single enchantment removal.

Ultimately lost the game to the Rograkh who I thought was more voltron, but ended up going Cheerio's combo with Cloudstone Curio, Rograkh and Dockside Extortionist. Same thing with threat assessment -- I allowed him to get priority back with Underworld Breach when I had a removal spell in hand - he was able to get Goblin Engineer and go off with Cloudstone Curio. I also allowed a wheel that let him refuel earlier in the game, when my hand was great.

All in all, I feel like the deck will really teach me to play the game better -- both games felt very winnable, and I was able to trace my exact mistakes.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

I wouldn't say there's any hard-and-fast rules about ratios. In a really low-powered environment I could imagine ONLY needing targeted removal, for example. Generally the higher-powered the meta, the more counterspells and board wipes you'll need (with a focus on counterspells for really nasty cEDH combo stuff, and a focus on board wipes for high-powered big dumb value stuff like Maelstrom Wanderer for example). They aren't as politically expedient, but they can be necessary. It's definitely a "season to taste" situation.

Considering what you were playing against, it sounds like more counterspells might have been expedient. I do tend to favor a slightly counter-heavy build these days. But overall the balance looks reasonable to me. The only removal I think it pretty weak is ravenform. I'd also cut ugin's insight since it's a sorcery and doesn't really work well with our low-permanent strategy. Mystic remora is potentially dicey politically and might not play super well here (since we mostly want draw late, when people might actually be able to pay) but if it's working for you then go ahead and use it. Manabase looks good for a budget build, obviously more untapped would be better if you decide to sink more money into it, but it's not mandatory or anything. I'd pick up a Path of Ancestry if you can - it should be trivial to find (as a common in commander legends) and provides both fixing and value.

Strategy-wise, underworld breach is really dangerous since it can mean that future spells can't be effectively stopped. It takes some major know-how to decide when you need to counter it, but if you know they're playing a combo deck, it's probably best to default to countering it, especially if you can't remove it.

Letting Ruric Thar resolve is a huge problem, and Ruric is generally a frustrating matchup. You've got a few options:
1) try to price him out of the game by killing or countering him ASAP.
2) help other people kill the player.
3) let him stick around occasionally, but refuel on life with pulse of the fields whenever he's not on board.
Which is best depends on how the game is looking - if the other players look relatively aggressive and creature-centric, I'd probably aim for 2. If it looks like it's going to be a pretty competitive game that not board-centric (so it'll be hard for your opponents to kill him), I'd go with 1. If it's going to be a slower more casual game, I'd go 3, provided you have pulse ofc. Speaking of, you might want to try to find more tutors to replace some of your weaker draw spells, so that you can more easily find niche answers such as pulse - that's probably the best thing you can do to improve your deck. Btw I think you're at 101 cards - might want to fix that.

Hope that helped! good luck.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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TheGildedGoose
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 3 years ago

Since we're all here posting decklists, here's what I'm looking to build in paper for whenever my FLGS opens back up for play after the pandemic is over:


The War on Hugs

Commander:

Sol Ring: 1

Approximate Total Cost:



The meta is your typical mixed bag, ranging from precons to semi-cEDH with most decks in the 75%ish range.

I think it's a solid foundation, though I haven't had much opportunity to test it much beyond goldfishing or playing against myself since playing politics online is such a hassle, and neither of those methods produce much meaningful information. I'm a little iffy on some of the counters but I really like the spot removal and wipe packages. My biggest concern though is the density and quality of my card draw spells. Most of them are cantrips or are otherwise card advantage neutral, with only a handful of ways to refill my hand, I worry I might peter out after playing out my spot removal spells in the mid and late game. I hope that between Arch of Orazca, Bonders' Enclave, and Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin pecking away at one card per turn and the handful of big draw spells I shouldn't run out of gas, but it's my biggest fear with the deck.

(I know you dislike Forbid but I see it as a generic 3cmc counter with the tremendous upside of locking someone out of the game in the 1v1 phase and Sol Ring is in because I think there's no real reason to play a basic land over it. Otherwise I don't think anything in the list is anything particularly egregiously against the deck's philosophy.)

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

I'd consider running more tutors to ensure you hit your permanent value engines and keep the cards coming. At least throw in Tolaria West, that's kind of a freebie.

The reasons not to run sol ring are:
1) We basically can't capitalize on an early sol ring in any significant way since almost all our spells are reactive, and we don't want to be threatening anyway - there's no real upside.
2) It'll eventually get killed by one of our wipes - there is real downside.

Doesn't matter THAT much, but personally I'm psyched to have found a deck where (imo) sol ring is actually bad.

I'd probably replace a lot of the cantrip draw with engines or tutors, personally. I don't think there's much upside and it can clog your mana if you're trying to keep up a counterspell or whatever.

Forbid is w/e but I think if you play multiple games where you finish with a forbid lock, people are going to get pretty wary of you. You've gotta make the finale look good :P
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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TheGildedGoose
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 3 years ago

I was kind of wanting to keep things tutorless for aesthetic reasons, but meh.

+ Tolaria West
+ Exploration
+ Mystical Tutor
+ Merchant Scroll
+ Muddle the Mixture
+ Pull from Tomorrow

- Island
- Sol Ring
- Forbid
- Oona's Grace
- Chemister's Insight
- Return to Nature

I really like the cantrips here and I think you're sleeping on them, but the middle of the road card filtering and draw spells are weak enough to go. With Grace gone, Exploration becomes more attractive to put those land draws to good use, and Insight is +2 cards for 8 mana. As for Pull, well, it's another big draw spell, is tutorable with Muddle/Scroll, and is instant.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Well admittedly I haven't actually run them in this deck for a long time, but here are my main reasons for not wanting to run them:

1) since almost all our plays are reactive, we're not usually looking for anything in particular. Occasionally we might really want a board wipe, for example, but we're not digging for a combo piece or whatever. Basically the same reason I don't like archmage's charm - sure, 2 cards is a decent deal, but you always want a counterspell. So I don't think there's much preference for any particular card over another at most points in the game (somewhat less true for instant-speed cantrips since you might get a counter or removal in response to something in particular).

2) sorcery speed ones in particular can make it harder to keep up answers on early turns in very fast metas.

I'm not a huge fan of stuff like pull from tomorrow either - mostly because I don't think the upside is super high. We prefer to keep our hand pretty full so we're more likely to have the right answer, so filling our hand is not that exciting imo, and not worth the risk of how inefficient it is before 6 mana or so. I'd actually prefer something like chemister's that gives us multiple smaller top-ups to prevent us from needing to go down in card quantity in order to get good value. And discarding (nonlands) is generally dangerous since it clues our opponents in to what's in our hand.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

Chromaticus
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Post by Chromaticus » 3 years ago

Thoughts on color hoser card advantage cards like Insight, Compost, and Reap?
Decklist
1 Reap
Approximate Total Cost:

I kind of enjoy the idea of swaying the game to an endgame with an opponent that will be feeding you cards.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Eh, can't say that I see much appeal. I wouldn't want my opponent to be able to dictate how much card advantage I'm getting. I want to keep the number of slots dedicated to CA engines to a minimum, since they're usually dead draws early. So reliability is key.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Hawk
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Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

To further build off of what Dirk said - the problem with Insight and Compost is that they violate the most important principle for Phelddagrif - "be invisible". "And I draw a card" every time someone takes a certain action (casting spells on Insight, losing cards to the 'yard on Compost) is the whole reason this deck eschews Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora which are normally staples of a Ux control deck. Sure, you can hold them until "the endgame" instead of running them out when you have the mana free and your hand dips down to 5ish cards, but this deck already has trouble in my experience with holding a grip of cards that seem to "do nothing" or that are "too good to use", and then when it comes time to dig the deck needs to be able to dig and refuel quickly and reliably (with Sphinx's Revelation or Dig Through Time or whatever) - a slow grind engine is the opposite of that reliability.

Reap is a little more tempting, but I'd want my meta to be really really heavily black before buying in - if you play in a meta where reliably there are multiple Bx opponents and you can almost ensure you'll be in a shoot-out with one of them, awesome, but in a vacuum I'll take the reliability of Wildest Dreams every time even though Dreams is significantly more expensive and sorcery speed. Still tempting though - usually Dreams for X=2 or X=3 is "enough" to reload on perfect answers and lock up a game, so if you are fairly certain you'll be able to Reap for 2 or 3 cards that's good enough.

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Kapusta
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Post by Kapusta » 3 years ago

Strixhaven is here and here come some goodies. A more non-permanent spell based set which really works with our current Phelddagrif play style.

So far in the spoilers (3/31) Bold are my likely picks and considerations:
Quandrix Campus: Looks pretty alright here. Still would play scry lands over these but repeatable scry is cool.
Vineglimmer Snarl: A continuation of the check land cycle. Old news but nice to have.
Resculpt: A new blue removal piece. Worth playing? Eh, if you're really hurting for removal but the 4/4 is just a tad too big and we just have so many better removal cards.
Hall of Oracles: Hey now this one is pretty cool. Helps filter mana and can grow our Hippo, but sorcery speed. I'm liking it alot more than other colorless lands that have similar "grow" abilities.
Wandering Archaic: The sorcery side of this card is interesting but the body could work too. Somewhat overshadowed by many cards we already have. Not the deck for this guy I'm thinking.
Multiple Choice: Awww, sorcery blows...But a fun card nonetheless. Good early and late. May find a slot in slower versions of this deck.
Quandrix Command: Now this card is good. I will likely find a spot for this card. All modes have their usefulness and has that sweet sweet instant speed.
Introduction to Annihilation: Too slow, and sorcery speed. Nah.
Fortifying Draught: With a card like Pulse of the Fields it turns into a very decent pump spell. If you build more around commander damage then I could see playing it, but I think it's overall a no from me.
Academic Probation: Can stop a known combo or line that includes abilities. Can see the usefulness of it as it can be much easier to use if there's a Telepathy. May consider this myself, especially since I know the decks in my play group and the combos they play.
Curate: Decent. Can lend to help strategies that use Life from the Loam or fuel the delve cards later on. Reasonable in certain builds of our deck.
Bury in Books: We've got many more options to play over this card, but it has it's uses. I'll pass on this.
Solve the Equation: Slam dunk uncommon. Basically a fabricate for instants and sorceries. Highly tuned decks may have enough tutors but I see this fitting in here veeeery well.

Let's hope for more good cards in the coming days but so far Strixhaven has impressed. Given us some goodies to play with.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

I'll comment on the full set once it's spoiled, but so far I'm not seeing anything that really excites me. Maybe a few minor role-players and alternatives though.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Moonlighter
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Post by Moonlighter » 3 years ago

Not to be a late-to-game dummy, but no mention of Riftstone Portal for the Retrace cards? Did I miss it? Too edge case? I think I desperately want to build one of these types of decks. I like the philosophy here a lot.
Playing EDH: Alesha Who Smiles at Death; Baba Lysaga, Night Witch; Emiel the Blessed; Breena, the Demagogue; Xenagos, God of Revels; Seton, Krosan Protector; Phelddagrif.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Devastating Mastery

And just like that, we have another auto-include in Phelddagrif. Can't wait to see the blue one - fingers crossed.

decisive rejection is also pretty solid, it's at least borderline playable. I like the 2 cmc counter + removal hybrid, even if both halves are pretty weak individually.

@Moonlighter tbh I haven't run retrace cards in my build for a pretty long time (I usually find I want to play as many lands as possible so extras aren't really a problem) so I don't have any strong opinions on it. There aren't really a lot of retrace cards that do useful things for us, unfortunately, so I'd be concerned that it'd be difficult to get it into the bin. Also, the fixing in my version is already pretty strong so it doesn't seem super necessary. Glad to hear you're interested, though :D
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

The Bibliplex -- land
T: Add [1]
2,T: Look at the top card your library. If it is an instant or sorcery card, you may reveal it and add it to your hand. If you don't you may put it in your graveyard. Activate this ability only if you have exactly zero or seven cards in your hand.

Oh hell yes. We got another one boyos. Though the slots for "land that gives CA" are getting tight enough that I don't think this is necessarily an easy inclusion. Arch, Bonder's, Castle, and War Room are all competing for the spot. Still, it's got a cheap activation cost and a solid chance of hitting, with some compensation if it doesn't. Is the hand size restriction too difficult, though? Could be a bit difficult to hit without already having another draw engine.

EDIT: ooh, another good thought - obviously the big miss here is lands, since the deck makeup (at least for me) is roughly 50% instants/sorceries and 45% lands (though MDFC lands improve the odds a bit, that's always nice). But dumping lands into the graveyard is excellent with Life from the Loam! So we only have a tiny percentage of true misses.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Hawk
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Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

The Biblioplex and Devastating Mastery are for sure auto-includes imo.

Devastating Mastery is less good than the instant-speed wraths but I would go so far as to say it's better than almost every other boardwipe in the deck that isn't instant or playable at instant speed. Getting a Planar Cleansing for four mana is awesome and in Phelddagrif letting the weakest player keep a few cards is a feature and not a bug for how we want to play. If it only existed at its alternate cost it'd still be a near auto-include, but the ability to pay the full six in the very endgame when it's 1v1 and you don't wanna give the last foe standing anything back puts it over the top.

The Biblioplex is a bit tougher, but it's like 50% to hit at least in our deck right? And we're definitely one of the only decks in EDH that would snap-include Library of Alexandria if we could. It's a bit dicier than Devastating which I think is just a staple; I do suspect it's a bit better than Arch of Orazca and War Room but a bit worse than Bonders' Enclave in a vacuum and it will take some testing. Having to have exactly 7 is tough for those of us who use Reliquary Tower.

This set is mostly disappointing (although for such an usual deck, we're not gonna get staples often). We've got a long list of cards that would be playable at instant but are garbage at sorcery speed (Reduce to Memory, Ingenious Mastery, Academic Probation, Excavation Technique) as well as cards that seem like they should be goo for us but are just too slow/bad (Secret Rendezvous, Verdant Mastery).

I do think Resculpt and Eureka Moment have a place in budget lists, possibly. I don't think I'll be including them but they're not awful.

I also love flexibility so I'd be down to experiment with Decisive Denial and Quandrix Command, but I suspect they miss the cut in the end.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

One downside I sorta forgot for biblioplex compared to others is the reveal. That's a not-insignificant weakness. I think this is probably just about the only (good) deck that would ever consider that card, but I still think it's kinda just medium. Arch does cost a lot more, but there's no restrictions, no reveal, and guaranteed draw instead of 50% draw 50% lftl fuel. I think you could make a strong argument that each of those advantages is worth a mana apiece, especially for a deck that's usually very slow-but-steady. Still, more options is better, but I wish they could have pushed it a little harder to make it a clear include.

I agree with your assessment of most of the rest of it - I had really high hopes that the blue mastery would be the sickest of all counterspells (or at least Arcane Denial #2) but alas. More fuel for the small/medium draw version, but I've never liked that build personally. Excavation technique, despite being a sorcery, is really, really, REALLY good...if there was ever a sorcery targeted removal spell worth including, it's probably that one.

Resculpt isn't terrible and I could see running it (would be a lot better if it was a 3/4 instead of a 4/4, but what can you do). Same for decisive denial. If lessons worked as-intended (and I have faith that one day they will), Divide by Zero would actually be really good I think. It's kinda comparable to Commit // Memory, except you get a weak card and save a mana in exchange for not delaying it as long. Still a really versatile card, though, and a rummage isn't nothing, value-wise. It seems at least borderline to me. Cards that are counters and removal are few and far between. Quandrix command I'm less enthused about, since I think Beast Within is much better than the top 2 parts combined, and the other two modes are pretty niche/weak.

The control part of the deck has always crept forward slowly, it's pretty rare for them to print a counterspell that manages to pique my interest given the caliber of what we've already got - overall I think this set did pretty reasonably on that front. Getting such a good board wipe is already a pretty solid deal, imo.

Between Study Hall and Opal Palace it'd be funny to do a strat where you intentionally suicide Phelddagrif a couple of times, so you can replay him as an 8/8 that scrys 4 for the rest of the game, lol. I'm just waiting until they print one of those cards minus the part where it's restricted to "from the command zone". Then we've got 'em.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Dunadain
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Post by Dunadain » 3 years ago

Going to have to disagree with the person saying we got nothing out of this set, 2-3 cards for a deck in one set is fantastic, and while our gameplan is really bizarre, the majority of our deck is just removal and counter spells, which have new cards all the time, I actually think this deck has more cards to look at each set than my other decks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't have anything to add about Devastating Mastery it's as good as everyone is saying.

I don't like The Biblioplex colorless land spots are really tight in my deck, despite having strong fixing, there's just so many lands competing.
  • cheaper activation cost isn't as good as it might be in other decks, in my experience, by the time I start activating my utility lands I've already got 7+ lands and we can always activate eot so there's not much need to worry about leaving mana open.
  • Revealing is a big deal, the fact that you don't have to reveal at least means you don't have to reveal a board wipe that's on top of your deck, but still, not ideal.
  • Only activating at 0 or 7 is pretty detrimental imo, the time I need my draw lands the most is when I'm at 4-6 cards in hand. If you ever go hellbent with this deck I'm pretty sure you're dead anyways and I almost never activate my draw lands with 7 cards unless I know I'm going to be able to play two cards next turn, I almost feel like this land would be better for the builds running reliquary tower, at least then you won't be forced to play a card you might have wanted to save.
  • Finally, 50% hit rate is high, but still not ideal, sure it's still a psuedo scry when it misses, but considering how rarely I'll be able to activate it anyways, I want each activation to count.
Quandrix Campus much less flashy but much more dependable, maybe not quite powerful enough but I almost might prefer this to The Biblioplex.

On a related note, has anyone been using War Room? The life loss scared me away but if it's been going well for others I might try again.

Eureka Moment I really want midsized draw to work, but it just doesn't, they sit in your hand cause you have 7 cards already, then a threat comes and you don't have an answer because your hand has draw spells instead of answers in them, so you cast the draw spell, and maybe you draw an answer, but now you don't have enough mana to cast it because you spent mana casting the draw spell. The only exceptions I'll make our Brainstorm and Dig Through Time because those cards are just broken. (also, sometimes I run Silundi Vision // Silundi Isle because 80% of the time I just play it as a land)

I might actually try Quandrix Command one of the problems I keep having is that the end game can become very unfun for my opponents, I've tried letting the final fight look as close as possible, but my opponents aren't stupid and they typically realize they don't stand a chance fairly quickly, after that there's this awkward 5 turn window that feels bad for everyone and gives the deck a little bit of a reputation. This looks like a pretty decent card that can also speed up the clock once you get to the end game. Any other tips to make the end game faster, more varied, or less dominant looking?

Hall of Oracles, If you already have Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers this might be the next best land that speeds up the clock.

I really hope lessons will be made to work in commander, and if so I agree, Divide by Zero will be fantastic, there are actually a number of solid lessons, the fact that they are all sorcery is ew, but lot's of them are answers like Reduce to Memory or Academic Probation, so a counter/removal spell, and a tutor all in one? yes please. When you don't need any lesson you can always rummage. Heck, I might try it even if they don't fix lessons.

I really don't like soft counters, maybe my meta just has too much ramp but I feel with how long our games go, people can pay for them way too often. I also don't like fight spells/Stubborn Denial as in response people can try to kill phelddagrif, sure we can bounce him but our spell fails, and an opponent wastes a removal spell, which should be pointed at our other opponents, so I'm not going to bother with Decisive Denial.

Excavation Technique Shiny... I want it. sorcery is really hard to swallow, especially after I've worked so hard to make my deck operate at instant speed as often as possible. I don't think it's good enough to justify sorcery speed, but I'm certainly tempted.

Study Hall is fine, I feel I have too many colorless lands already and it's a pretty significant step down from Path of Ancestry.

Vineglimmer Snarl another fixer for the budget decks.

Finally, why aren't we talking about Solve the Equation? It's not as interesting as the other spells we got, either you want another tutor or you don't, but for me this is an easy yes, of course, I run Crop Rotation so it might be a bit stronger for me than for other decks.

whew, that's alot of text

TL;DR
Devastating Mastery good
The Biblioplex not so good
Solve the Equation good
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
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Hawk
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Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

Yeah, given that I run Into the Roil and that Remand only just missed the cut, Divide by Zero really isn't that far from playable even without Learn working as intended in EDH. If Learn did work as intended, and it could flexibly grab our pick of Academic Probation, Reduce to Memory, Containment Breach, Introduction to Annihilation, or Teachings of the Archaics, it'd be an easy replacement for roil. As it stands I think I like Roil a little more (more flexible, actually replaces itself, can hit tokens) but it's actually really close the more I look at it. For any deck running Repulse or Repeal on a budget, it definitely seems better than those.

I'm not that into Solve the Equation. My build eschews tutors mostly because I don't own any of the good ones. I suppose if you're on a budget it is better than Long-Term Plans (which isn't even all that budget anymore) but I think it is overall worse than Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor, Intuition, Wargate, and Muddle the Mixture. Heck, I'm not even positive it beats Long-term - instant-speed tutoring for a card that remains hidden from your opponents is worth quite a bit.

I will admit I didn't fully consider the campuses. I think for budget folks like myself I like them less than Temples if you're gonna play EtB Tapped lands (and Temples are dirt-cheap these days), but they are better than the gainlands or snow duals if you're playing common etb tapped lands. As I'm 99% certain my current deck is, embarrassingly, running Thornwood Falls, this is an easy replacement.

I don't see any need to dedicate slots to making 'griff a faster clock, so I'd tend to pass on Hall of Oracles. I'd say its worse than Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers because it only makes colorless. For the same reason, I don't currently run Opal Palace (and I love Opal Palace more than the average player) and can't see myself running Study Hall either. But it is fair to say that for a slightly different build, these are at least worth some thought.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

I agree with a lot of @Dunadain's analysis. I kinda forgot about solve the equation in the shuffle, but I did notice it when it was spoiled. 3 is definitely a lot more than 2, despite being more flexible than Merchant Scroll. Given that scroll can hit all our best counters, arguably our best board wipe (though revealing it sorta ruins it), and decent targeted removal, in addition to its main goal of hitting a value engine, I think it's the superior choice still - but being able to hit some of the harder-hitting wipes and removal makes it a solid consideration.

Biblioplex really annoys me. I really wanted to like it because Library of Alexandria would be such an insane add for this deck if they ever unbanned it, but tack on 2 mana, tack on instant/sorcery only, tack on reveal...suddenly it's not that shiny anymore. It's hard to imagine a deck where it fits better than here, and it's still kinda medium. Boo. And yeah, 7 isn't necessarily trivial. Arch is a fine topdeck when you're sitting on 3 cards or w/e and needing gas, whereas this is pretty awful. 0 cards is somewhere we never ever want to be, and we'd have to STAY there to keep getting CA from this. so that part is almost irrelevant.

I'd say my second favorite card of this spoiler season was revealed today - Inspiring Refrain. Almost un-interactible, repeated CA. 6 cmc sorcery is hard to swallow, but setting it up early for 3 isn't terrible. Opinions on this bad boy?
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Kapusta
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Post by Kapusta » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
I'd say my second favorite card of this spoiler season was revealed today - Inspiring Refrain. Almost un-interactible, repeated CA. 6 cmc sorcery is hard to swallow, but setting it up early for 3 isn't terrible. Opinions on this bad boy?
I like it. May not be the best pick for this deck specifically, but if any deck in existence was tempted to play this card then it would be this deck. Recurring and consistent, slow but stable. I'd give this card a try for sure.

Quandrix deck has been spoiled:
Oversimplify - What doesnt simic get in edh anymore... An interesting type of board wipe but kinda medium on it.
Replication Technique - Dont like it. Can give our opponents too much while at best we will make 2 copies of lands. Better late game when it's 1v1.
Perplexing Test - Nah. Worse Evacuation

And back to yesterday's spoilers:
Muse Vortex - Notably puts the uncasted cards back into your hand. Seeing that about 30% - 40% of the cards in our deck are instants and sorceries I can see this being a nice spell

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