Nissa's Spanish Inquisition!

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Card Slinger J
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

weltkrieg wrote:
3 years ago
Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
weltkrieg wrote:
3 years ago
Card Slinger J In that minor list, I do believe indeed that Elder Druid is probably stronger than wirewood symbiote unless you have an extremely heavy elfball subtheme. It sounds more like mono green activated abilities, which means that Elder Druid has many more targets with the artifacts and lands like Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx .. Better still is to run activated ability doubling in Rings of Brighthearth . Better still, if you have lots of creatures with activated abilities, you could run Instill Energy , Nature's Chosen , and Illusionist's Bracers.
I was assuming you were going to suggest Elder Druid over Magus of the Candelabra instead of Wirewood Symbiote. The list I'm running isn't really aiming toward a Heavy Elfball Subtheme when it's about how much I'm contributing to the board state as possible before swinging for game. The activated abilities of the creatures I'm running were really just to supplement Wirewood Symbiote's untap ability as well as Seedborn Muse's. Rings of Brighthearth is nice though I don't have the money for it right now and I'm running out of room for new artifacts as it is.
Do you have a list posted somewhere? I could make more constructive suggestions there.
Sure here's the link:

http://nxs.wf/np66148
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Post by weltkrieg » 3 years ago

@Card Slinger J Ok, I perused your list a bit. You definitely don't have a ton of artifacts, creatures, and lands with activated abilities (just a few that I noticed). I do think that the elder druid would be superior in this list. However, I didn't realize just quite how many doublers you had. Almost literally all of them. Impressive sir! Most notably, I noticed that wirewood symbiote has no real place here. If you just want to untap creatures, than I heartily suggest that Quirion Ranger or Scryb Ranger or Seeker of Skybreak should be a marked improvement. You have like 2 elves that you can return with wirewood symbiote, but 22 forests. Elder druid costs a bit, but it also targets your artifacts and lands (and a couple of those love being untapped).

A quick question about your land base: You have a personal howling mine in the command zone and only one landfall creature, so why undiscovered paradise and the cycling lands? I think these are better as forests or maybe dust bowl or similar. If you had other reasons to need different lands, I might understand (Field of the Dead or Life from the Loam , for example) but here they do almost literally nothing and otherwise make you vulnerable to blood moon or similar (my meta is rife with stuff like this and we aren't particularly competitive).

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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

Perhaps I need to run more Elves to help compensate Wirewood Symbiote's bounce ability for untapping creatures with activated abilities:

Borderland Explorer / Jungle Wayfinder - Helps provide ramp for other players who need it the most.
Reclamation Sage - Seems solid with Wirewood Symbiote for repeatable spot removal.
Voice of Many - Could be useful.
Selvala's Enforcer - Group hug draw?
Quirion Sentinel - Really good with Emerald Medallion.

As for the land base I'll look into running more Forests.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

I can confirm Reclamation Sage is pretty awesome to be bouncing back and forth. The others here are pretty so so, but you also missed Wood Elves which is as good as green ramp gets on a body. Coming into play untapped is great. Farhaven Elf is pretty good too. Springbloom Druid is cool too if you don't mind the sacrifice. Then there's Yavimaya Granger and Multani's Acolyte too.

Other than that, Entourage of Trest could be cool for some extra draw power. Monarch is an underplayed mechanic.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

These are the cuts and additions I'm thinking about making to my Nissa EDH list:

- Magus of the Candelabra
- Glademuse
- Nantuko Mentor
- Woodfall Primus

- Nissa, Vital Force

+ Argothian Elder
+ Reclamation Sage
+ Timberwatch Elf
+ Changeling Titan (counts as an Elf)

+ Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury (for Elf token spam)

Elves in my creature base thus far for utilizing Wirewood Symbiote (7):

Nissa, Vastwood Seer, Elvish Visionary, Argothian Elder, Reclamation Sage, Timberwatch Elf, Keeper of Progenitus, and Changeling Titan.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
- Nissa, Vital Force
So, I don't necessarily think this is the best card in the world to cut, and I'll share some (admittedly anectdotal) gameplay from last night to back my case up.

Played a four way game last night against Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. I had a stunner of a starting hand with Green Sun's Zenith, Wood Elves, Farhaven Elf and 3 lands of various description. Without going through a blow by blow, I had Nissa flipped by like turn 3.

At any rate, I drew into Nissa, Vital Force at about the same time my commander flipped, so I cast, tick up for 1 to play out something I drew into, I think it was Springbloom Druid. Next turn cycle, I zero'ed her for her emblem. From there, the game was basically on easy mode. Like, I ended up with an overfull grip most turns, got most of my basics into play, and ended up post Cyclonic Rift with an iconic game-winning hand of Nyxbloom Ancient, Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Mirage Mirror, Concordant Crossroads, Squall Line, Baru, Fist of Krosa and Forest.

From here, I had upwards of 18 lands in play, one of which was Growing Rites of Itlimoc // Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun, and a horde of creatures. Pretty much, game over. The god play was to get Nyxbloom Ancient and Mirage Mirror into play, use one to copy the other, cast Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and pump my army to flatten everything into oblivion. Well, there was some further interaction that held me back a little, but it really was a case of too little too late, the gqame was in the bg. And that's with all 3 opponents knocking on close to 40 life.

So I guess the feedback here is that Nissa, Vital Force is really, really good value. The uptick is helpful either for burst mana or a body in play, the downtick is helpful recursion, and the ultimate is golden, and most importantly, it's attainable the turn after casting her. That's amazing value, especially when the emblem gives you free, uninteractable draw for something you are doing (and in mono green doing it in spades) anyway. It's my type of walker purely because there's value at every ability and it can be used in multiple ways, but also, getting the best value out of it is remarkably easy.

Just my two cents, but that emblem is pure fire.
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Post by weltkrieg » 3 years ago

@Card Slinger J I agree with @toctheyounger . Nissa vital force is recursion and card advantage, all in one. Hard to remove a value engine like that. Also, there is a non zero chance that you'll get your Karn's Bastion out and ultimate the turn you drop her.

Not a bad list of things to remove. Question: If you remove the 2 untapping targets, then what creature are you planning on untapping or is it just to regrow the ETB elves? in that case, it might better just to get the Temur Sabertooth and ignore the elf synergy entirely.

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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

Thinking of taking Avenger of Zendikar out for Ambush Commander though I feel like it's too much of a risk If I'm going up against Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Lightmine Field, Caltrops, and Juntu Stakes. If any of my opponents get rid of Wirewood Symbiote or Changeling Titan then I won't be able to bounce / exile Ambush Commander without running the risk of my lands getting "destroyed" based on state based actions.

Marwyn, the Nurturer was an option over Timberwatch Elf however I should be alright with the ramp I already have. Other than that, I may need to cut a few cards for Splendid Reclamation and The Mending of Dominaria in case I lose my land creatures from Ambush Commander. Maybe cut Lightning Greaves and Vivien's Arkbow for Cloudstone Curio and Erratic Portal? I know Nissa, Vital Force was a tough cut though I felt it was justified due to my personal experience with her.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
Thinking of taking Avenger of Zendikar out for Ambush Commander though I feel like it's too much of a risk If I'm going up against Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Lightmine Field, Caltrops, and Juntu Stakes. If any of my opponents get rid of Wirewood Symbiote or Changeling Titan then I won't be able to bounce / exile Ambush Commander without running the risk of my lands getting "destroyed" based on state based actions.

Marwyn, the Nurturer was an option over Timberwatch Elf however I should be alright with the ramp I already have. Other than that, I may need to cut a few cards for Splendid Reclamation and The Mending of Dominaria in case I lose my land creatures from Ambush Commander. Maybe cut Lightning Greaves and Vivien's Arkbow for Cloudstone Curio and Erratic Portal? I know Nissa, Vital Force was a tough cut though I felt it was justified due to my personal experience with her.
So I wanted to do a little more of a deep dive on your list as linked above and earlier in the thread and see what I could do to help hone it a little. It seems like it's trying to do a lot of stuff, and in my experience (with this list even), the further you spread yourself the harder it is to achieve anything. I don't want to suggest that your list doesn't work, that's not what I'm going for, I just want to provide some honest critique and suggestions to maybe help point you in a direction you're happy with.

Firstly, casting a wide net - your deck seems to be trying to do three wider things: land animation, superfriends and group hug. All three of these are viable, and there may even be some overlap, but I think to some degree it's to your detriment to go in three directions at once. If it were me, I would drop the group hug element. Part of this is because people really don't like planeswalkers. Like, my commander in my iteration of this deck is almost a false target a lot of the time, and I encourage it too. So part of me thinks giving away resources is a bad idea when you're trying to keep walkers on the field, or when you're animating lands.

In terms of a deep dive, starting in one section and moving onwards.
Lands:
You have a lot of cycling in here, have you considered some recursion for these? Life from the Loam would be great if you're only using them for card draw, or Ramunap Excavator would be excellent if you're looking to use them both ways.

Creatures:
Heartwood Storyteller and Glademuse - I think either of these could be useful in their rightful place, but I don't think Glademuse really fits. If you were running this deck with Yeva, Nature's Herald at the helm it'd be pure gravy, but as is, probably not so much.
Nantuko Mentor - It's fine, if you really need a creature to tap to use this ability. If it's just to make use of Wirewood Symbiote, I wouldn't bother. Elder of Laurels does similar, and repeatedly if you have enough mana (and you definitely do). Or there's Ursapine, or the absolute top of the pile, Kamahl, Fist of Krosa. There really isn't a pumper better than Kamahl, because it's team wide. He's almost a second Craterhoof Behemoth for you. The other great thing about him is his first abillity, which deters your opponents from casting board wipes. Damnation? Say goodbye to your land base, pal. The value on him is incredible.
Wirewood Symbiote - You have 12 creatures in your list. That's really not enough to justify a creature bouncer, especially one that can only bounce elves. The untap ability you can leverage, but you really don't have to; so long as you have a creature it'll try to untap even if the creature is already untapped. If you run it for the bounce, I would 100% swap it out for Temur Sabertooth or Cloudstone Curio. Either of these are crazy good, from experience. In your case though, I'd probably favor the Curio purely because it bounces noncreatures too, and you have a lot of those.

Artifacts:
Amulet of Vigor It's an undeniably strong card, but I can't help but wonder if it's a little surplus here on top of Seedborn Muse and Wilderness Reclamation.
Sol Ring/Emerald Medallion - This is a personal thing for me, purely because the ring is SO ubiquitous, and it may not be the right decision, but I don't run it here. I'd absolutely prefer to see lands in play, myself, and something like Nature's Lore or Skyshroud Claim can get you a Dryad Arbor if you need it to. Totally fine if you disagree though, they're very defensible choices.
Mind's Eye - I think we can do SO much better for draw than this in mono green. Return of the Wildspeaker is instant speed and modal, Regal Force or Regal Behemoth do well, Garruk, Primal Hunter gives you another Regal Force trigger, or if you wanna keep the group hug vibes, Grothama, All-Devouring can give you most of your deck in your hand - it could even count as a win condition if you can manage to make folks draw to death.

Enchantments:
Oath of Druids - With your creature count, this seems like it would turf a good portion of your deck into your graveyard. It's an easy creature given that, but it also seems like something you'd want to use in a deck with heavy graveyard synergy, and that isn't really this deck. Nylea, Keen-Eyed almost falls into the same category, but also, her creature cost reduction ability seems a little redundant when you have 12-13 creatures in the deck.

Sorceries:
Road of Return - how often is this useful for you? It seems ok, if a little underwhelming. The commander mode is handy if your commander costs a ton and you're on a mana budget, but you're flush and your commander starts at 2g. If you want the recursion, the two options I've run in here that have paid dividends for me are Seasons Past and Nostalgic Dreams. Both give you more value than you pay for, one of them is repeatable, and both can get back literally any card you like.
Bramblecrush / Desert Twister - No Beast Within? It's instant speed and better than either of these, 3/3 be damned. You have bigger stuff, it doesn't even matter.
Boundless Realms So, I used to run this one too. It's a trap. It looks great on paper, but what it gives you is really minimal advantage. Think about it this way: To even break parity and make advantage on the card, you need to have at least 7 lands in play. They enter tapped, at sorcery speed. At the point of 7 lands in play, you net yourself no further mana to use and probably telegraph whatever you want to do next turn anyway, so why splash this much mana into it? Personally, the most insane, disgusting ramp I have ever seen is Collective Voyage. There's games I've had like 12 lands out on turn 2 or 3, no joke. Sure, your opponents get the same, but you have mana doublers up the wazoo, why should you be worried? Other than that you could look at options like Hour of Promise or Nylea's Intervention to pick up the specific lands you want.

In terms of what I think you could do to tighten your deck up, here's what I'd suggest:

Should you want to lean into walkers:
Evolution Sage - This deck ramps hard and you have 5 walkers already. It's money for nothing, chicks for free.
Garruk, Primal Hunter - Every loyalty ability is relevant to you.
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - As above.
Nissa, Vital Force - We've already talked about this one. I know I didn't convince you, but if you have any type of proliferate in the deck at all, its a no brainer. Even without proliferate it's pretty great.
Add in with these things like Karn/Ugin, and you've got a pretty strong shell.

If you want to lean into land animation:
Rude Awakening - Land creatures are still fairly frail, but 2/2's are better than 1/1's.
Vitalize - Super cheap boost or combat trick if you're heavy into man-lands or mana dorks.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - I really think you should add this whatever you do. It's one of the best mana sinks in the colour you run, and a really, really good control piece.
Splendid Reclamation - You're gonna need it.
Ramunap Excavator / Crucible of Worlds - See above
Titania, Protector of Argoth - If you're swinging with lands, this is your contingency plan.
Gilt-Leaf Archdruid - Alright, so this one is really, really mean. I've kind of always wanted to build around it but I have few friends as it is. You'd need to get more druids, but it's not impossible.

Just in general:
I really strongly recommend Collective Voyage. One of my favourite cards of all time.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - he's great.
Karametra's Acolyte - Imagine this with Nyxbloom Ancient in play. This is what you're wanting to use that untap ability for.
Regal Behemoth is a mana doubler you've missed anyway, and Monarch is actually a really great mechanic that doesn't get the credit it deserves.
Some form of land recursion.

I hope all of this helps, I do mean it to be constructive so I hope it comes across that way. I think you've got a pretty fun shell for your deck, I just think it needs some streamlining.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

@toctheyounger I want to at least keep Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury and Nissa, Who Shakes the World on the list, one for Elf token spam and the other for mana doubling though I'm a little concerned with losing Regal Behemoth's mana doubling ability If I'm no longer the monarch. I can definitely see about cutting Boundless Realms for Collective Voyage, I'll see about adding in Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Karametra's Acolyte as well. Still going to cut Vivien's Arkbow and Lightning Greaves for Cloudstone Curio and Erratic Portal though. I'll see about adding back in Beast Within but it was a tough cut for Bind.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
@toctheyounger I want to at least keep Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury and Nissa, Who Shakes the World on the list, one for Elf token spam and the other for mana doubling though I'm a little concerned with losing Regal Behemoth's mana doubling ability If I'm no longer the monarch. I can definitely see about cutting Boundless Realms for Collective Voyage, I'll see about adding in Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Karametra's Acolyte as well. Still going to cut Vivien's Arkbow and Lightning Greaves for Cloudstone Curio and Erratic Portal though. I'll see about adding back in Beast Within but it was a tough cut for Bind.
I think both of those walkers are worth keeping.

In terms of Monarch, I really wouldn't worry too much. You have 3-4 really good fog variants here, so the chances of losing the crown is pretty minimal for you I would think.

In terms of my other suggestions of course take them with a grain of salt. Your deck is what you want it to be, I just thought some suggestions to refine the deck into a couple particular areas might be handy.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Core Set 2021 Set Review




I can't remember the last time a Core set was so good, to be honest. This year's offering is really, really nice all around. The reprints are fire, and there's some great new stuff. I haven't really looked at any of it with a Nissa lens, so let's do a dive into the offerings.

Artifacts/Colorless/Lands




Green

  • Elder Gargaroth - This is a lot of value on one card. The keywords are nice, the triggers are mostly reasonable (although I really don't care about lifegain). It could fit in here, potentially. I think it'll do well in standard, but I think it's a bit out of depth in this format. It's fine, but not spectacular.
  • Garruk, Unleashed - Garruk is back and Veil-Curse free. The uptick is fine, pretty standard green beater ability. The downtick is interesting, and probably easy enough to abuse, although even if you can you're still not heading for an ultimate, you're just heading down more slowly. The ultimate is very good, but I'm not sure there's enough earlier in the abilities to make it worth the risk. I'll probably pass, myself.
  • Garruk's Harbinger - There's a lot tacked on to 1gg here. I think if I had a reliable way of giving my creatures a degree of evasion this could pull some weight.
  • Garruk's Uprising - Trample, a cantrip, AND incremental draw? This is a nice card. It could be pretty great in the deck, could be worth looking into. Triggers off of tokens, so that's nice too.
  • Jolrael, Mwonvuli Recluse - An interesting card, and probably easily buildable. That second ability makes it a really nice way to change combat math, and green has some crazy burst draw, so it could be a super fun weenie deck. I don't see the need for it here, but it's a nice card nonetheless.
  • Llanowar Visionary - Decent enough, a Llanowar Elves stapled to an Elvish Visionary. I'll pass, because I don't care about the dork ability, and the CMC being one lower is more important to me.





In general, the caliber of the cards released is really quite decent. There's nothing that immediately speaks to me here, with Elder Gargaroth being the top of the pile and probably still an almost-ran. But that's mostly because the deck is doing really well the way it is and needs something really exceptional to break into the 100. Garruk's Uprising is really quite nice, so that may well get a look in too.

That being said, the reprints - if I can track down Azusa, Lost but Seeking it's a windmill slam into the deck. Most likely Dryad of the Ilysian Grove is out for it, because with it's second ability it's better used in a deck that splashes, but we will see. Heroic Intervention would be nice too, but I do wonder if it's surplus to requirement here. Usually a board wipe or counterspell really only slows things down rather than stopping me outright, so it might be overkill.

Feel free to discuss; if I've missed anything great let me know.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

So here's my updated list for Nissa, Vastwood Seer. Didn't really see anything of interest in Core 2021 though:

Decklist

Commander (1)

1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Approximate Total Cost:

So the idea is to equip either Runed Stalactite or Amorphous Axe on a non-Elf / non-Griffin creature to trigger abilities for Wirewood Symbiote, Wirewood Lodge, and Griffin Canyon for bouncing creatures back to hand for protection or by untapping them with Karametra's Acolyte being a solid target for adding extra mana or by turning Timberwatch Elf into a Griffin to pump a creature on board with Griffin Canyon. Maybe I need to take Argothian Elder out for Skyshroud Poacher seeing as how I can toolbox my Elves more efficiently.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Some updates, mostly discussed already:

I've talked about all of these additions, and I'm pretty confident they will fit nicely. In terms of removals, there's a couple of controversial cuts, but again I think the right ones. Lotus Cobra I was finding just never really gave me enough resource at the right time, outside of massive ramp with an emblem or Collective Voyage, and you just can't rely on that. I'd prefer a solid foundation than a high ceiling. Force of Vigor on paper is incredibly good, but I can't honestly remember the last time I cast it. A similar effect is on some of the creatures in the deck so I don't think it's going to be missed overly. Myth Unbound was fair to middling, so it's an easy cut.

So with these additions, the deck is bolstered for ramp, bounce, ETB and beater options. The only other addition I'm looking at any time soon is Azusa, Lost but Seeking. The price has dropped nicely so I'm hoping to pick one up. As a nice side bit of value she's a human so Kogla, the Titan Ape can bounce her for indestructibility, which is cool.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Well, got (most of) a game in today. Played 3v3 agast Shattergang Brothers and Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. I did not fancy my chances, being honest, but I held my own well enough.

Game started off fairly middling, dropped enough lands into play to hit Farhaven Elf, then next turn played Panharmonicon. Kozi is ramping and getting pseudo-draw with Karn, Scion of Urza, the gobbos are not doing a lot, just a little control.

Next turn I play out my land, cast Skyshroud Claim to grab a basic and a Dryad Arbor to flip Nissa, and tick her up into Titania, Protector of Argoth. At this point, the gobbos decide they're doomed and scoop, so it's me vs the Eldrazi. Any other deck and I'd maybe scoop, because damn. But I figured I'd see what I could get done.

Couple of turns pass by relatively uneventually, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth hits play, and I get swung at by Ulamog's Crusher. I drop 2 of my lands on the annihilator and block with Dryad Arbor. On my turn I cast Titania, Protector of Argoth with a double reanimator trigger, grab my Dryad Arbor and a basic back, tick up Nissa into Collective Voyage, cast Beast Within on the Kozi and pass.

I get swung at again, this time with 2 crushers and a 3/3 beast, after Helm of the Host gets played and equipped. I sac 4 lands, block with elementals to kill the crushers and take 8 damage. My turn comes along and I draw into Splendid Reclamation. Lol. So yeah, I get about 7 lands back, tick Nissa up for a land, and pass turn.

Kozi gets cast again, but at least this time there's no attack, although Karn, Scion of Urza gets downticked to death, and there's 4 10/10 constructs in play against me as well as a Titan. Turn is passed. At this point, I have Nissa on 7, Titania, Protector of Argoth and 2 elementals in play with 11 lands, 10 of them able to tap for mana (Terramorphic Expanse). In hand I have Collective Voyage, Baru, Fist of Krosa, Brutalizer Exarch. Rampaging Baloths, Terastodon. I don't have enough resource to use the Exarch to search up anything worthwhile, Baru won't give me enough of a pump to connect or do the damage needed to make an impact, the Baloths will give me at most 4 beasts if I follow up by casting Voyage, so I cast Terastodon with 6 triggers on the stack.

At that point my son needed changing, so the game came to an abrupt halt. The plan was to hit as many rocks as I could - he had Unwinding Clock, Thran Dynamo, Strionic Resonator, Inspiring Statuary in play, so with these and hitting a couple of my lands I might just have been able to hold out another turn. There's a fairly good chance the next turn I'd have been able to keep some elementals in play and drop Baru/Voyage with enough to take a good chunk off of 40, but you never know. I probably still would've lost, but it could've been a close game. What I got to play of it was fun anyway.

At any rate, the moral of the story is Eldrazi aren't entirely unbeatable if you back yourself and play well.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

Did some goldfishing with Nissa and came to these recent fixes:

- Runed Stalactite
- Amorphous Axe
- Griffin Canyon

+ Elixir of Immortality
+ Feldon's Cane
+ Blasted Landscape

As much as I liked the equipment in here they didn't really do much unless I get the right synergies going. Blasted Landscape is nice card advantage for when I need to dump lands with Manabond after casting Nylea's Intervention. I think I still get landfall triggers for Avenger of Zendikar though.

Elixir of Immortality / Feldon's Cane have always been solid in EDH / Commander as they're usually my go to staples as far as recursion goes when I need them most. The amount of mana acceleration I'm able to generate in this deck is just absurd. Getting Nyxbloom Ancient off of Oath of Druids is hilarious.
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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Had a massively good game today. I lost against Derevi, Empyrial Tactician and Kenrith, the Returned King as archenemy. But it was pretty great nonetheless.

I kept a hand with 6 but with Yavimaya Dryad, Wirewood Symbiote and Farhaven Elf. Came out swinging and ramped for days, hit the commander and kept more value coming. Eventually I hit Bramble Sovereign, cast Duplicant and doubled it to exile Kenrith, the Returned King and Marchesa, the Black Rose from the 5c player. My sovereign got exiled, they both realised I was the major threat at the table and it all got heavy.

At some point I landed Nissa, Vital Force and got her emblem, and while I was doing so I got Wave of Vitriol hidden away under Mosswort Bridge. At this point I had a few elves, Woodland Bellower and a Generous Gift Dumbo in play, so I cast the Wave, destroyed a ton of control and Derevi, Empyrial Tactician's voltron equipment and cantripped 5 lands into play.

I drew into Titania, Protector of Argoth and brought back Mosswort Bridge, hiding Growing Rites of Itlimoc // Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun, and at this point I was using Constant Mists every turn. Which isn't the worst thing in the world but you can't do it forever. Derevi, Empyrial Tactician is swinging at me every turn, Kenrith, the Returned King is doing everything he can to make it connect, and I'm on about 11 life, with 13 commander damage from the bird.

I draw into Shaman of Forgotten Ways and readjust our life totals, but I still can't connect with enough to take both players out. The bird has 3 creatures in play, so I swing with 3 Titania elementals and Woodland Bellower, which he lets through, but his commander has lifelink, so he gains back something like 13 life, and the King has Archon of Absolution in play taxing me for attacks, so I can't get enough in there either.

Eventually, I go for one big turn with what I have. I cast Concordant Crossroads, Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Mirage Mirror, then I make Mirage Mirror a Yavimaya Dryad, and have enough left to use Kamahl, Fist of Krosa's second ability once, to swing for 10. I get lethal into the bird, and Kenrith, the Returned King uses his ability to give him 5 life and keep him in the game.

At this point, I had Glacial Chasm in hand and could've waited them out for a win, but I decided it was enough of an arm wrestle and the win was earned. Derevi, Empyrial Tactician had scooped after the last combat despite the lifegain effect, so I conceded to the King. Maybe I shouldn't have, but I was tired and misplayed a couple of times and they did pretty well keeping themselves in the game so I decided they deserved it. Besides, I had a lot of fun and put the deck through it's paces nicely. It performed very well.

Lessons learned:
  • Constant Mists is good enough to make people tear their hair out.
  • Yavimaya Dryad is relevant more often that you'd think with it's forestwalk.
  • Count your mana, even if there's lots of it.
  • Sequence your plays right, especially when there's lots of moving pieces. There were a couple of times I could've won and flubbed my plays with poor sequencing.
Other than this, I've now got a copy of both Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Squallmonger to add into the list. I'll do an official update shortly, but Dryad of the Ilysian Grove probably comes out for Azusa, Lost but Seeking. Not sure just yet what Squallmonger replaces. Time will tell!
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OCPunisher
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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

Hey all, just wanted to say that I'll be adding a copy of Squallmonger to my mono-green deck based on this thread after a game today where multiple opponents had Fog-effects. I ended up winning by looping a Kogla, the Titan Ape to eat all their creatures before adjusting life totals with Shaman of Forgotten Ways, but it would have been much easier to just burn them out.

On that note, how do the rest of you go about gaining life when someone else is ahead of you and you need to Squall for the win?
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Post by rogerandover » 3 years ago

I used to play Lifegift for the longest time, but it never actually did much. Surely the card is best being played in the first couple of rounds, before everyone starts ramping, and when that happens, you gain absurd amounts of life, and then you'll become archenemy. People will usually hit the player with the most life, not the one about to combo off.
Now I solely rely on Glacial Chasm and Platinum Emperion, and occasionally gain some life from Scavenging Ooze.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

OCPunisher wrote:
3 years ago
Hey all, just wanted to say that I'll be adding a copy of Squallmonger to my mono-green deck based on this thread after a game today where multiple opponents had Fog-effects. I ended up winning by looping a Kogla, the Titan Ape to eat all their creatures before adjusting life totals with Shaman of Forgotten Ways, but it would have been much easier to just burn them out.

On that note, how do the rest of you go about gaining life when someone else is ahead of you and you need to Squall for the win?
The easiest way is to find yourself Glacial Chasm. Crop Rotation is a seriously underrated card and does this super well - or you could run Ulvenwald Hydra. Otherwise, Shamanic Revelation is super good for a life boost. I've had upwards of 70 odd life from it in the past. Or, as you did in this game, Shaman of Forgotten Ways bringing the goalposts that much closer is easy enough.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Another brief and previously discussed update:

Like for like, mostly, the Dryad sort of fits better elsewhere, probably in a tri colour deck or similar. Azusa lets me hit Nissa SUPER early possibly, and gives me another target for Kogla, the Titan Ape's last ability. Seems an easy choice.

I'm still waiting for my Squallmonger, so the decision for what gets the cut is delayed slightly.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

Might wanna consider Mana Reflection since it just got a reprint in Double Masters.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
Might wanna consider Mana Reflection since it just got a reprint in Double Masters.
I did think about it, but honestly, while it's a stunningly good card, I don't think it has a place here. Here's why:
  • It's an enchantment, and therefore I can't tutor for it with Green Sun's Zenith or Chord of Calling.
  • Nyxbloom Ancient gives me an extra factor of multiplication of my resource for g more.
  • I can tutor the ancient in a number of ways.
  • I can take the ancient into battle, and it has combat keywords. Also, I can make copies of it with Bramble Sovereign.
  • With the relative absence of mana dorks and rocks in the deck, it's functionally comparable, but probably inferior to, Zendikar Resurgent. The utility of cantripping your creatures on Resurgent cannot be rivalled. It's a very strong effect, similar in power to Nissa, Vital Force's emblem. If you can make use of it, you basically get to see most of your deck and win how you please. In a way, they're both sort of storm cards for green.
  • At this point, with the deck operating the way it is, I don't personally believe that I actually need the redundancy in this effect. I have enough ways to get Ancient with regularity and minimal cost, and being honest, while tremendous amounts of mana is always fun I don't feel like I need more; frankly, I could use at least one more way to use the resource I already have access to, which is why Squallmonger is on the way.
Don't get me wrong, it's a stellar card; I just don't see it being a shoe in here. It's a hard sell, and I think Ancient has a step over it. Even Resurgent has at least an edge on it, and I don't currently have that in the list either. If I ran more dorks or big mana dorks (read - Selvala, Heart of the Wilds), sure. If I had more ways to grab Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or Growing Rites of Itlimoc // Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun, sure. But as the deck stands, it's 4gg to do what I can do with other cards more effectively.
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

The one thing I find very confusing in this list: why no sol ring/mana crypt? Not only are they not included, they're not even mentioned. Both seem like they'd be very straightforward power upgrades. If you're cutting them to intentionally cap the power, I'd probably at least explain that somewhere.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
The one thing I find very confusing in this list: why no sol ring/mana crypt? Not only are they not included, they're not even mentioned. Both seem like they'd be very straightforward power upgrades. If you're cutting them to intentionally cap the power, I'd probably at least explain that somewhere.
Huh, yeah. I guess it's worth going over in the OP. It's been so long since I even considered rocks in the deck I just hadn't even thought of discussing it.

I probably sound like a broken record, but Mana Crypt is well outside of my budget, so it's just a non-starter. Sol Ring is fine, but has no real immediate synergy with anything else in the rest of the deck. Ramp elves I can bounce, creatures do other extra stuff, the Ring is just the Ring. Which is not nothing, it's still very good, but I just see it as relatively far from essential to the list.
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