Nissa's Spanish Inquisition!

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Huh, yeah. I guess it's worth going over in the OP. It's been so long since I even considered rocks in the deck I just hadn't even thought of discussing it.

I probably sound like a broken record, but Mana Crypt is well outside of my budget, so it's just a non-starter. Sol Ring is fine, but has no real immediate synergy with anything else in the rest of the deck. Ramp elves I can bounce, creatures do other extra stuff, the Ring is just the Ring. Which is not nothing, it's still very good, but I just see it as relatively far from essential to the list.
That's fair about budget, I've been looking through a lot of lists and a lot of them haven't been budget-constrained, so I just forgot.

As far as sol ring, I wouldn't think about it as replacing a ramp spell, I'd think about it as replacing a land. Outside of really aberrant cases when someone counters or destroys it immediately, it's going to function pretty much like a land except much better. Sure, it's not particularly synergistic, but its power level is already so much higher than anything more synergistic could ever hope to achieve.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
That's fair about budget, I've been looking through a lot of lists and a lot of them haven't been budget-constrained, so I just forgot.

As far as sol ring, I wouldn't think about it as replacing a ramp spell, I'd think about it as replacing a land. Outside of really aberrant cases when someone counters or destroys it immediately, it's going to function pretty much like a land except much better. Sure, it's not particularly synergistic, but its power level is already so much higher than anything more synergistic could ever hope to achieve.
Yeah, short of nabbing one from a Double Masters booster I'm never going to get one. And I've been grabbing singles from that set, boosters are mostly a cash trap.

That is a fair point about Sol Ring. There's some relatively niche lands in the list it could easily replace, it might well be worth a look in.
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Post by weltkrieg » 3 years ago

While I can see the argument for adding sol ring as a general good-stuff card, I see no real reason to. This deck really wants lands, not mana rocks. Your general finds forests, acts as a personal howling mine (while ramping lands if you flip one) and your win conditions of choice also prefer lands (or have you not repeatedly gone over the virtues of Baru, Fist of Krosa repeatedly within this very thread?)

Additionally, you can run some awfully nasty cards without doing yourself any harm when you don't run sol ring. I have 3 different mono green commander lists and none of them run sol ring anymore. It just was too ineffective in my meta (blowing up sol rings and similar is a high priority target for us).

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

weltkrieg wrote:
3 years ago
While I can see the argument for adding sol ring as a general good-stuff card, I see no real reason to. This deck really wants lands, not mana rocks. Your general finds forests, acts as a personal howling mine (while ramping lands if you flip one) and your win conditions of choice also prefer lands (or have you not repeatedly gone over the virtues of Baru, Fist of Krosa repeatedly within this very thread?)

Additionally, you can run some awfully nasty cards without doing yourself any harm when you don't run sol ring. I have 3 different mono green commander lists and none of them run sol ring anymore. It just was too ineffective in my meta (blowing up sol rings and similar is a high priority target for us).
I can see for and against, personally.

Pros:
  • Turn 1 Sol Ring is acceleration that this deck would make good use of, and it could even be enough to just outpace the table and win pretty quickly. It's comparable to the Turn 1 Green Sun's Zenith into Dryad Arbor, but better in terms of immediate benefit.
  • It is potentially more useful than some of the more corner case lands in the deck.
Cons:
  • Outside of the starting hand, it's value drops off pretty significantly, to the point where the deck generates enough mana for it be almost entirely redundant. I'd say past turn 4-5 I wouldn't want to draw into it.
  • It has no significant synergy with any of my existing architecture within the deck, and even nonbos with Wave of Vitriol - even a jank utility land does better than that. All that being said, at the point I'd seek to cast Wave I'm probably at the point where Sol Ring doesn't matter anymore and it becomes collateral damage.
I don't know if there's more to be said about it, other than that I couldn't fault anyone for wanting it in the list. I guess in a hipsteresque sort of way I kind of like running the sort of deck to spit in the face of Sol Ring's ubiquity and thrive without it, so I'll probably leave it out at the moment.
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Sol ring is also good in the endgame when you're drawing a bunch of cards (Personally in my last game I threw down a regal force with panharmonicon to draw...I think 46 cards). Being able to play sol ring and generate mana that turn, plus have even more mana next turn, is great when you've got more cards than you know what to do with. Another land is just going to get discarded (or, if you have reliquary tower, sit in hand and be irrelevant).

The only time it's a bad draw is if you're low on gas, and a land will almost always be a bad draw in that case too. It can be sub-land-quality if you're trying to get a zombie with field of the dead, or flip nissa and are stuck on draw, but those are really niche reasons to reject a card that is so absurdly powerful. And it works fine with nyxbloom ancient, so it's not even synergy-less.

If nissa hits a sol ring vs a land off the top, it's basically the same thing that turn, since they both ramp for 1. And then on subsequent turns you're on +2 mana with sol ring instead of +1 with forest.

If you were playing a LOT of artifact hate I could maaaaaaaybe see the argument against it for that reason, but with just wave of vitriol? That's nothing. They'll rarely come up in the same game, and when they do it's even less likely to actually matter.

I do get the impulse to exclude it just because it's what everyone else is doing, so if that's a stand you want to take then don't let me stop you. But from a power perspective it's 100% correct to run it, I can pretty much guarantee that. A pro and con list is kind of absurd - it slightly nonbos with 1 card in the deck is equivalent in value to the potential to double-time-walk on turn 1, or accelerate you on any turn of the game? The power level is just so much higher than nearly any other card in the format. There are very few good reasons not to run it - outside of just not liking it.
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
Sol ring is also good in the endgame when you're drawing a bunch of cards (Personally in my last game I threw down a regal force with panharmonicon to draw...I think 46 cards). Being able to play sol ring and generate mana that turn, plus have even more mana next turn, is great when you've got more cards than you know what to do with. Another land is just going to get discarded (or, if you have reliquary tower, sit in hand and be irrelevant).

The only time it's a bad draw is if you're low on gas, and a land will almost always be a bad draw in that case too. It can be sub-land-quality if you're trying to get a zombie with field of the dead, or flip nissa and are stuck on draw, but those are really niche reasons to reject a card that is so absurdly powerful. And it works fine with nyxbloom ancient, so it's not even synergy-less.

If nissa hits a sol ring vs a land off the top, it's basically the same thing that turn, since they both ramp for 1. And then on subsequent turns you're on +2 mana with sol ring instead of +1 with forest.

If you were playing a LOT of artifact hate I could maaaaaaaybe see the argument against it for that reason, but with just wave of vitriol? That's nothing. They'll rarely come up in the same game, and when they do it's even less likely to actually matter.

I do get the impulse to exclude it just because it's what everyone else is doing, so if that's a stand you want to take then don't let me stop you. But from a power perspective it's 100% correct to run it, I can pretty much guarantee that. A pro and con list is kind of absurd - it slightly nonbos with 1 card in the deck is equivalent in value to the potential to double-time-walk on turn 1, or accelerate you on any turn of the game? The power level is just so much higher than nearly any other card in the format. There are very few good reasons not to run it - outside of just not liking it.
Fair points all. Ultimately at the point of the game at which I'd generally play Wave of Vitriol it's not going to matter if I hit my own Sol Ring, so there's that. As absurd as it sounds I may not actually have a spare anyway, but I'll dig around. I was intending to build Kalamax, the Stormsire and I think I've backed out of it after playing against it the other day - it was literally watching someone else play - so I probably have a copy in that pile.

I think once I've decided to actually drop it into the list, the only real concern I have is what gets the cut for it. I'm hesitant to drop to 36 lands, even if I can immediately see which land goes for it (Blasted Landscape). Otherwise, most of the nonland inclusions I'm pretty happy with, so it's at least a little hard to find a reasonable cut. Ursapine is probably a case of last in first out if anything.
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Post by rogerandover » 3 years ago

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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
Might wanna consider Mana Reflection since it just got a reprint in Double Masters.
I did think about it, but honestly, while it's a stunningly good card, I don't think it has a place here. Here's why:
  • It's an enchantment, and therefore I can't tutor for it with Green Sun's Zenith or Chord of Calling.
  • Nyxbloom Ancient gives me an extra factor of multiplication of my resource for g more.
  • I can tutor the ancient in a number of ways.
  • I can take the ancient into battle, and it has combat keywords. Also, I can make copies of it with Bramble Sovereign.
  • With the relative absence of mana dorks and rocks in the deck, it's functionally comparable, but probably inferior to, Zendikar Resurgent. The utility of cantripping your creatures on Resurgent cannot be rivalled. It's a very strong effect, similar in power to Nissa, Vital Force's emblem. If you can make use of it, you basically get to see most of your deck and win how you please. In a way, they're both sort of storm cards for green.
  • At this point, with the deck operating the way it is, I don't personally believe that I actually need the redundancy in this effect. I have enough ways to get Ancient with regularity and minimal cost, and being honest, while tremendous amounts of mana is always fun I don't feel like I need more; frankly, I could use at least one more way to use the resource I already have access to, which is why Squallmonger is on the way.
Don't get me wrong, it's a stellar card; I just don't see it being a shoe in here. It's a hard sell, and I think Ancient has a step over it. Even Resurgent has at least an edge on it, and I don't currently have that in the list either. If I ran more dorks or big mana dorks (read - Selvala, Heart of the Wilds), sure. If I had more ways to grab Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or Growing Rites of Itlimoc // Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun, sure. But as the deck stands, it's 4gg to do what I can do with other cards more effectively.
After playing in an EDH / Commander game last Saturday at one of my LGSs I was almost about to cut Zendikar Resurgent for Mana Reflection not realizing just how good the cantrip was and I wanted to run both cards so I went ahead and cut Growing Rites of Itlimoc // Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun instead seeing as how I don't get to transform it for it's Gaea's Cradle ability as often. Also was considering running Elvish Spirit Guide for when I desperately need an extra G to cast Elvish Visionary If my mana base is only a Forest and a Dryad Arbor that keeps getting bounced back to hand. Might actually cut Keeper of Progenitus out for Squallmonger for the same reasons you described earlier in this thread.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
After playing in an EDH / Commander game last Saturday at one of my LGSs I was almost about to cut Zendikar Resurgent for Mana Reflection not realizing just how good the cantrip was and I wanted to run both cards so I went ahead and cut Growing Rites of Itlimoc // Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun instead seeing as how I don't get to transform it for it's Gaea's Cradle ability as often. Also was considering running Elvish Spirit Guide for when I desperately need an extra G to cast Elvish Visionary If my mana base is only a Forest and a Dryad Arbor that keeps getting bounced back to hand. Might actually cut Keeper of Progenitus out for Squallmonger for the same reasons you described earlier in this thread.
I can see the rationale there; from memory your list is somewhat less creature focused, so Itlimoc would give a varied return.

Re Elvish Spirit Guide; idk, anything outside of turn 1 it seems like a bad pull, and even in your starting hand it's a once off thing, so it's not likely to dig you out of a mana screw all the way. I think the mileage it gives goes a lot further in other formats. Personally, I'd be tempted to run something like Voyaging Satyr - it drops early enough to keep you going early game and the return it gives you late game with resource multipliers is pretty significant. Even Arbor Elf, while not as versatile, would be better.

Keeper of Progenitus for Squallmonger seems a reasonable trade. The Monger is a really decent mana sink to close out the game with. I have to admit though, I was a little disappointed that it's never been errata'd to be a human for the purposes of Kogla, the Titan Ape. It's just a Monger, which is no good to anyone.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

So I managed to get through some cards recently and actually sleeve them up. It's been a little while between updates purely for being pretty busy, but here's what I'm trialling at the moment.


So I guess the list is pretty tight for flex spaces, most of what's in it I'm pretty ok with. I've wanted Squallmonger in for a little while as a pseudo-fog for fliers, and as a win condition. Ursapine I honestly probably didn't really give a fair shake, I think I saw it in hand maybe once or twice and never got it in play, but the former seems more meaningful in terms of global impact on the game. Nature's Lore I'll admit I was hesitant to drop, but I also have a lot of ramp elves and extra land drops, so I think I'll be ok. Ulvenwald Hydra is something I've been looking at for a little while. Reach is nice from a passive perspective, but what I really like is the land search. That's pretty strong, and it's nice to have it on more than just the one card in Crop Rotation. The variable P/T I guess can be pretty cool with Pathbreaker Ibex too, but that's more of a peripheral perk than anything. CMC wise I can grab it with Fierce Empath too, so it's another option for that whole Woodland Bellower > Fierce Empath > 'another fatty' play.

I'll try and get some gameplay in soon and see how it all shakes down.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

Haven't actually won with Squallmonger in my build yet though I have been experimenting with Forgotten Ancient and Triskelion for +1/+1 counter shenanigans especially with Doubling Season now in Nissa. I also wanted to accelerate my early to mid game ramp using Birchlore Rangers and Heritage Druid with Nissa, Vastwood Seer before she transforms into Nissa, Sage Animist which was helpful to some degree but was a turn away from keeping up with my friends' Kykar, Wind's Fury which consistently always wins on turn 6.

I did recently add some more untap capabilities with Vitalize and perhaps Emerald Charm for untapping any permanent on board. I need to find ways to protect myself while I'm wide open for attack as the Fog effects I run do help to some extent If I draw into them in time. Sometimes I'll discard Moment's Peace just to Flashback it later with my opponents forgetting that it's in my graveyard. One card that hasn't really helped me when running Nissa was Bind since I'm usually waiting to counter an activated ability off of a combo going off which usually doesn't work in my favor or counter a Planeswalker ability If I'm lucky.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
Haven't actually won with Squallmonger in my build yet though I have been experimenting with Forgotten Ancient and Triskelion for +1/+1 counter shenanigans especially with Doubling Season now in Nissa. I also wanted to accelerate my early to mid game ramp using Birchlore Rangers and Heritage Druid with Nissa, Vastwood Seer before she transforms into Nissa, Sage Animist which was helpful to some degree but was a turn away from keeping up with my friends' Kykar, Wind's Fury which consistently always wins on turn 6.
Seems like Squallmonger would be brilliant against Kykar, Wind's Fury, no? Sure, your mate can sac his spirits for r in response to the monger, but eventually you'd run out of spells to cast I'd think.

Quest for Renewal and/or Earthcraft could be pretty nuts for consistent levels of g production in terms of tapping/untapping shenanigans.

And if you're going down the counter route to any big degree, Death's Presence could do some neat things with Triskelion or Walking Ballista. You'd need a sacrifice outlet (Greater Good?) but it'd be easy enough to make it a rapid-fire death machine.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

Was also thinking about swapping Karametra's Acolyte for Spike Weaver since him and Forgotten Ancient are best buddies.

Might pick up a Quest for Renewal down the road since Earthcraft is out of my price range. Squallmonger would be good against Kykar, Wind's Fury but that depends If you're able to get her out in time before Kykar wins out of nowhere.

I don't think I run enough creature tutors to get Squallmonger out consistently when I need her.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
Was also thinking about swapping Karametra's Acolyte for Spike Weaver since him and Forgotten Ancient are best buddies.

Might pick up a Quest for Renewal down the road since Earthcraft is out of my price range. Squallmonger would be good against Kykar, Wind's Fury but that depends If you're able to get her out in time before Kykar wins out of nowhere.

I don't think I run enough creature tutors to get Squallmonger out consistently when I need her.
Chord of Calling just got reprinted. It's basically free with enough creatures in play - especially if you're running tap synergies like Quest for Renewal.

The other thing that'll hose Kykar, Wind's Fury is Tornado Elemental. That card is great value. Even with Forgotten Ancient, you could load it up with a ton of counters and knock someone out since it's basically unblockable unless you say so.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

I already run Chord of Calling though I refuse to run Tooth and Nail for the same reason why Cyclonic Rift needs to be banned in EDH, they're just too good. Once Upon a Time might be pretty solid early game though I don't know If I want to run more than 4 creature tutors with the 4 I run being Worldly Tutor, Green Sun's Zenith, Chord of Calling, and Finale of Devastation.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
I already run Chord of Calling though I refuse to run Tooth and Nail for the same reason why Cyclonic Rift needs to be banned in EDH, they're just too good. Once Upon a Time might be pretty solid early game though I don't know If I want to run more than 4 creature tutors with the 4 I run being Worldly Tutor, Green Sun's Zenith, Chord of Calling, and Finale of Devastation.
Sounds like you have enough to grab it if needed. I wouldn't run more, personally. The only other thing you could do is run variants of the same type of effect. Unfortunately the monger is in a weird place where it can't be grabbed by Woodland Bellower or Fierce Empath, so I don't really have much else to offer in terms of creature synergy.

I've used Eldritch Evolution in other places, maybe it could put in some work?
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

There are some ways Mono-Green EDH can win through non-combat damage aside from Squallmonger:

Mortarpod = Spam a bunch of Plant tokens with Avenger of Zendikar with a mana doubler out (Heartbeat of Spring, Keeper of Progenitus, etc.) to float tons of mana to equip and re-equip the Plant tokens you sacrifice to deal damage to any target.

Goblin Cannon / Rocket Launcher = Same principle above except you're floating tons of mana to deal damage without sacrificing creatures to do so though it's a one shot maneuver since the artifacts get sent to the graveyard after multiple uses of using the same ability on the stack.

Also I'm experimenting with +1/+1 counter shenanigans using Forgotten Ancient to feed off my opponents spells to produce tons of mana with Gyre Sage which is actually less annoying than Spike Weaver to prevent combat damage non-stop. Also added in Quest for Renewal and Smuggler's Copter since they have good synergy with my Elves that tap for mana. Umbral Mantle and Sword of the Paruns seem like fun with Karametra's Acolyte, Gyre Sage, Priest of Titania, and Elvish Archdruid for infinite mana.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Zendikar Rising Set Review




Well, Nissa is home again after a disastrous retconned romance lore-wise. I didn't really know what to expect for this set, Zendikar has been synonymous with Eldrazi for so long. There's some cool stuff, and I'm interested in what the thoughts are from fellow mono-green players.

Artifacts/Colorless/Lands

  • Forsaken Monument - Nice for brown decks, but probably not for us. There's a few non-g producing lands, but nowhere near the depth needed to make this work.
  • Lithoform Engine - There's a few folk going nuts over this, and it's neat. It's also very expensive to get mileage from, and really, you need a way to untap it to make it work well. It's not for us.



Green







Short and sweet this time. There's not tons for us to consider, but the two chase green mythics are worth discussion. What say you? Do they deserve further scrutiny?
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 3 years ago

For me and Titania, the green mythics are basically shoo-ins, just need to figure out what to drop. And that they're both Elementals makes me want to consider at least an alt build of Elemental tribal. I'm generally thinking I need to redo my list a bit, with the irony that I don't even contact my friends regularly, much any one that plays Magic. /shrug

Ancient Greenwarden - Most of the same pay-off cards for the Land-Harmonicon effect, and further redundancy for lands from grave, on a leafy, reach-y boi.

Ashaya, Soul of the Wild - While the big beater aspect isn't as interesting, the fact that my regular dudes would produce them lovely 5/3 Elementals is what I love here. Makes me want to consider Greater Good for draw.

Khalni Ambush // Khalni Territory - is actually a minor consideration for me, since I'm currently running Gargos, Vicious Watcher and Elvish Fury and other fighty bois to act as creature control. The above mythics and maybe a questionable hydra or two lead me to that conclusion of needing a list rework.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

I'd cut a land for Bala Ged Recovery // Bala Ged Sanctuary, and to a lesser extent Turntimber Symbiosis // Turntimber, Serpentine Wood. Ancient Greenwarden feels not super worth here, unless you really rely on your landfall payoffs and spending six mana on an amplifier for them sounds good (which to me it does not, but I'm not familiar with the exact feel of the deck).
 
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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
3 years ago
Khalni Ambush // Khalni Territory - is actually a minor consideration for me, since I'm currently running Gargos, Vicious Watcher and Elvish Fury and other fighty bois to act as creature control. The above mythics and maybe a questionable hydra or two lead me to that conclusion of needing a list rework.
I mean green targeted creature removal is in short supply, so why wouldn't you?

Nissa's Elemental is the bigger include to me, it's like a less busted Earthcraft in many ways. But still, like, sort of busted. And again, it's referenced on my commander, I'm sort of obligated right?

The leafy reach boi....I mean I'd be including it for synergy with like 4 cards. I guess I could cut Splendid Reclamation for it, but it seems a precarious inclusion.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
3 years ago
I'd cut a land for Bala Ged Recovery // Bala Ged Sanctuary, and to a lesser extent Turntimber Symbiosis // Turntimber, Serpentine Wood. Ancient Greenwarden feels not super worth here, unless you really rely on your landfall payoffs and spending six mana on an amplifier for them sounds good (which to me it does not, but I'm not familiar with the exact feel of the deck).
Turntimber doesn't speak to me much purely because there's not a really stellar return on playing it as a non-land. It's just not better than Chord of Calling, Green Sun's Zenith or Finale of Devastation. Bala Ged Recovery // Bala Ged Sanctuary seems a reasonable opportunity cost, though.

Appreciate the feedback re Greenwarden, too - good to know my read on it was pretty good.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

If you do decide to run Ashaya, Soul of the Wild then I'd consider running Elven Palisade as a sac outlet or maybe Heartwood Giant for non-combat damage If you have a way to repeatedly untap him? Jungle Basin basically becomes a non-basic land that requires you to bounce an untapped creature you control since Ashaya turns your non-token creatures into Forests.

Lithoform Engine I mainly see being good with Seedborn Muse, Unwinding Clock, Voltaic Key If you have plenty of mana rocks to make use of it. Forsaken Monument's good with Basalt Monolith for infinite however there's not very many mana rocks that can combo off of it as efficiently. Ancient Greenwarden wouldn't be that good unless you had Landfall abilities to make use of.
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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
If you do decide to run Ashaya, Soul of the Wild then I'd consider running Elven Palisade as a sac outlet or maybe Heartwood Giant for non-combat damage If you have a way to repeatedly untap him? Jungle Basin basically becomes a non-basic land that requires you to bounce an untapped creature you control since Ashaya turns your non-token creatures into Forests.
That does bring up an interesting avenue in terms of bouncing creature/lands - if anything it makes Cloudstone Curio even more disgusting. I guess it would be more relevant if Ravnica bounce lands were doable, but yeah, Jungle Basin does give me the option of bouncing a ramp dork or something. I think I'm ok for land sacrifice with Sylvan Safekeeper, doesn't really get much better than instant speed protection. There's always Zuran Orb too.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Commander Legends Set Review




I've been waiting for the spoilers for this release for most of the year, and while it's been a little disappointng in terms of the (probably very) specific reprints I'd have liked to see, there's a ton of content here nonetheless, and the more I look over it, the cooler some of it looks. I'm not sure there's lots here to go over for a list like Nissa that's more or less where I want it, but you never know. Because of the sheer high number of releases, I'll just go over what I think are the most discussable releases. If I miss anything, feel free to chime in.

Artifacts/Colorless/Lands




Green

  • Annoyed Altisaur/Apex Devastator - Something tickles me about copying these for a massive swathe of cascade triggers, but there's enough X in the list I need something else attached to justify the inclusion. These are fine, but it would take some really exceptional stats to hit the list in place of anything already here.
  • Court of Bounty - I really like Monarch as a mechanic. This is easily the best of the bunch, and could be pretty fantastic. This isn't the first list I'd want it in, but I'd be lying if I didn't at least state that it puts Nissa's +1 on easy mode, which speaks volumes for it.
  • Dawnglade Regent - I actually quite like this. Its a pretty reasonable way to protect an existing win condition. I don't hugely think that's something that immediately needs to be in the list, but in a control meta it could be really good.
  • Kamahl Heart of Krosa - He's good, just not as good. Plus, that CMC is pretty horrendous.
  • Kamahl's Will - I think the first mode here is pretty irrelevant, and the second is fine, if a little overcosted for removal. I think it'd be fine in the right place, but I don't see the need personally.
  • Kodama of the East Tree - This card is pretty obviously bonkers. I kind of hate it just for being so obviously pushed. Power is fine, but where's the challenge? It even counts lands. It'd do fine here, but I've sort of covered similar ground before in the deck with Wild Pair and I don't really feel the need to retread that ground.
  • Reshape the Earth - That CMC. This is no Tempt with Discovery. I think if you can afford to cast it, you're probably already winning.
  • Rootweaver Druid - This is kinda cool, like a way less griefy Gilt-Leaf Archdruid. It's still griefy, just less so. I like it, I just wonder if it's the sort of thing that gets a target on your head. I'd love to hear some thoughts on it.





Nothing here that's a definite lock for my build, which is probably good considering I'm still to grab Ashaya, Soul of the Wild from the last release. I feel like there's the makings of elfball in various ways in the set, so that's one way to take some of the new cards. I'll see what crops up out of the box my wife and I are sharing and go from there - nothing Nissa is laser focused on, but you never know.
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