Sheoldred, the Apocalypse

Post by **WizardMN** » 9 months ago

I seem to be on quite the deckbuilding kick lately and this is my newest endeavor. I can't say this will survive for long but it gets me back to a mono-color deck which I have 0 of right now (I put together Daretti, Scrap Savant online but never did it in paper so I am not counting it at the moment). Mono-color is something that has interested me quite a bit but I never seem to find a commander or a list that entices me enough to go that route. The last mono-Black deck I made was Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed which, while fun, wasn't really focused so I ended up dismantling it.

This deck on the other hand ends up being more focused, more powerful, and more resilient (hopefully) than Xiahou Dun was. Of course, there are nearly 10 years worth of cards printed since Xiahou which makes a huge difference. The main issue I can see is that this may perhaps be too powerful but I am having fun with my playtests online so far.

Here is the list I am currently running:

Approximate Total Cost:

I tried to lean into Sheoldred's effects as much as possible without going overboard. I didn't want to add much that become actively worse without her on the field. I do have Seizan, Perverter of Truth which probably falls over that line a little, but this does mean that there is no Howling Mine, Font of Mythos, or Temple Bell. Bell is probably mostly fine but it just isn't something I wanted to add.

Of course, there is plenty of chaff, especially for a rough draft. Things like Dark Ritual and Portal to Phyrexia are likely to get cut. Ritual is still here when I was going bigger on ramp and I had Cabal Ritual and Jeweled Lotus in the list but I didn't like how it played. Portal to Phyrexia is just a big drop to do something with all my mana I can hopefully produce but I don't particularly like it in the list.

Endless Atlas is another that might not be needed and I am still debating on Teferi's Puzzle Box. The card fits nearly perfectly but I don't like not being able to set up my hand very well before my turn. That is, if I draw a bunch off of Erebos and then shuffle it away, it drags the game on as I try to figure out what to do with the new hand. Same for everyone else. I still have it because it can legitimately kill people.

Torment of Hailfire may be a notable omission when talking about wanting stuff to use all my mana on, but I really don't like the card. I know this deck can be fast and can be devastating, so perhaps wanting to limit powerful spells is a bit odd but that is the route I am going to take.

Also, I have no way of protecting Sheoldred. No equipment or things like Kaya's Ghostform to help alleviate issues with board wipes or spot removal. This may be a mistake but I am sort of banking on large mana production to just get her back. Maybe not the best solution, but I don't think it is especially game-breaking. Of course, if she is targeted heavily (which she likely will be) and I am finding it difficult to get her back often, I may add in some protection spells (most likely equipment).

Change Log

Show

Hide

8/4/2023

CUTS

1 Dark Ritual

1 Portal to Phyrexia

ADDS

1 Painful Quandary

1 Memory Jar

Approximate Total Cost:

9/22/2023

CUTS

1 Sheoldred, Whispering One

1 Teferi's Puzzle Box

1 Psychosis Crawler

ADDS

1 Throne of Eldraine

1 Bloodchief Ascension

1 Polluted Bonds

Approximate Total Cost:

Post by **ISBPathfinder** » 9 months ago

Especially seeing you run Puzzle Box, it seems like you might also like Dark Deal in here?

I wonder if it wouldn't be worth considering Pestilence effects in that you could poke players lightly while sweeping utility and tokens at the same time. You do have some creatures that it might be a problem for but I think it could have some synergy with your commander.

Painful Quandary is a card I like quite a bit in a black control deck as it gives good options regardless of what opponents pick. Paired with your commander's life draining I feel like its going to add up quickly for opponents.

Post by **pokken** » 9 months ago

This feels like the most Memory Jar deck to ever jar

Post by **WizardMN** » 9 months ago

@ISBPathfinder
I did think of Dark Deal but left it out for now based on my reservations with Puzzle Box itself. If I find Puzzle Box performing admirably I will likely revisit Dark Deal as a secondary, one-shot option. It is certainly a good call out.

Hmm, I hadn't looked at Pestilence effects. I can see its appeal, beyond the risk of killing my stuff (mostly Crypt Ghast to be honest) but that can sort of be worked around. If nothing else, especially if I have Crypt Ghast on the field, it can turn into a win con which isn't the worst. I might have to look into that option some more.

I do like Painful Quandry and maybe even Wound Reflection as ways to ramp up the damage/life loss. When I was looking at "big" effects I may not have been exploring what things like Quandry could do and I like it more than Portal to Phyrexia anyway. I might slot that in right away and see what it can do.

pokken wrote: ↑
9 months ago
This feels like the most Memory Jar deck to ever jar

That wasn't even really on my radar but maybe it should be. At least with this, it is guaranteed 14 life per person whereas Dark Deal and Puzzle Box can be 0 or 2 life (in, admittedly, rare situations).

Post by **pokken** » 9 months ago

I like jar a lot in coffers decks because you tend to have more mana available at sorcery speed by a lot than other decks, so you can just activate coffers, play it and go kaboom. Even nicer when there's a payoff. You've got to be cautious about people playing their removal spells in response and with cards they are gonna lose, but *usually* it's a net win for you.

Also, it's a bit of an online metagame call since people tap out so much

Post by **WizardMN** » 9 months ago

That is true that online is certainly going to play a bit differently in regards to certain things but Jar is certainly going to be better there in most situations. But the biggest thing, either way, is what you pointed out: hopefully I have enough mana production that I can use the bulk of the new cards whereas everyone else gets 1 or 2 cards from it, at best, and then goes back to their previous hands.

Post by **ISBPathfinder** » 9 months ago

Sorry, back again. I started contemplating a list for this commander myself out of nowhere after looking at yours lol.

Temporal Extortion - If ever there was a commander to make this work..... it seems like this might be the one. Like, I don't mind taking half of someone's life if they want to try to stop this and the strategy of life loss seems to play well with it.
The One Ring - The commander gaining life on the draw really completely overpowers the life lost to this card over time assuming it never gets so large you can't activate it. If only it didn't cost so damn much money.
Hatred - We should have a decent bit of lifegain to offset for using something like this and it gives a voltron option to work against a potential opposing lifegain strat.
Exsanguinate - I saw your mention on Torment of Hailfire, maybe this is just as bad but generally it doesn't hit as hard. I have a hard time complaining about either of these cards when I generally die it tends to be to combo, stasis, LD, or randomly 1,000 combat damage stuff.

Offhand I am trying to not double down too hard on making the commander better. I fear with some cards like Underworld Dreams that this card really isn't that impressive in a lot of cases even though its hitting on the same element as the commander it feels like including a card that does like 1/4th of what the commander does and I would rather run better standalone cards than rely on some weird jank stuff to try to make the commander's strategy work harder.

Post by **WizardMN** » 9 months ago

I am not sure where I land with something like Temporal Extortion. I agree that it makes sense here (at least here more than most) but even then I am still low on extra turn spells in general. Of course, this is only one extra turn spell and it is tough to get back so just having that as an option to, as you said, halve someone's life in most cases seems on brand.

The One Ring absolutely makes sense. And I have a couple in paper to have in case I find a place for them. But it is still $100 online and I am not paying that and I don't like my paper and online decks to get too out of sync so I might avoid it for now just because of that. But I agree that The One Ring is pretty good here.

I hadn't thought about Hatred but maybe that is an option. My biggest issue is simply that Sheoldred doesn't have much for evasion and Sheoldred is the obvious target especially when trying to deal with opposing lifegain. While people may be less likely to block a Deathtouch creature, she is still easily chump blocked. They won't necessarily know they need to with Hatred since it is an Instant but I wonder how often it can actually get in?

I don't blame you for being more on board with Exsanguinate and Torment. I did think of Exsanguinate earlier as well but I held off primarily because of similarities with Torment. The main difference, which makes it a little better in my book, is that Exsanguinate can be fired off for a lesser amount just to hit for some life loss but also gain some much needed life.

Also, your point about Underworld Dreams is understandable. There is a reason, after all, that I chose not to go with the Ob Nixilis that does the same thing. However, my thought is that it does offer me a similar function for when Sheoldred isn't on the field and when she is, I get an additional 1 damage which is nice as things are moving along. I wouldn't say it is great, but I think it makes sense in the deck to an extent.

What are your thoughts on Sorin Markov (which has similarities with a couple cards) and Coveted Jewel? The latter is one that came up last night in a game and I realize it actually works pretty well, if Sheoldred stays alive.

Post by **ISBPathfinder** » 9 months ago

For some reason I keep thinking the commander has flying. That dang artwork is deceiving lol. I suppose without Hatred probably doesn't work out as well as I was thinking.

Sorin Markov / Peer into the Abyss - I don't overly like single player elimination cards especially not at premium costs. I try not to do things I don't like done to me and eliminating a player then playing another 30+ min of magic because the card used to kill one player can't kill a second isn't very fun to me. I would rather represent a threat to each player even if it isn't quite as strong of a threat to each.

Coveted Jewel maybe.... I don't like cards that rely on the commander to work out though to be honest. I would rather just run generically good cards and let the commander do whatever it does then try to use weak cards that are kind of odd copies of the commander or need the commander to function.

Post by **WizardMN** » 9 months ago

Regarding Sorin and Peer: I tend to agree but I also find that there are times when going after a single player is necessary. I admit that it is not something I tend to do, which is why Sorin is not in any of my decks, but my experience last night suggests these may be relevant. The mono-green player had a full board and was presenting lethal to everyone on turn 7 or so. My draw I was basically hoping for Peer just so I could take them out and we could keep playing. Yeah, it sucks to knock them out and keep playing for 30 minutes after but, in this case anyway, I didn't kill them and then they took a 20 minute turn.,. So, I would rather remove the threat so 3 people can have fun at the expense of one person rather than 1 person having fun at the expense of 3.

I realize this one scenario clouds my judgment in this regard but I have seen this happen a few times online too and sometimes taking out the biggest threat is justified. The problem of course is whether the biggest threat is really that big I suppose.

Yeah, that is what I was thinking too. I mentioned before I didn't want cards that aren't great (or maybe even bad) without Sheoldred on the field and Jewel certainly falls into that camp.

Post by **WizardMN** » 8 months ago

Here are come changes I want to try out:

8/4/2023

CUTS

1 Dark Ritual

1 Portal to Phyrexia

ADDS

1 Painful Quandary

1 Memory Jar

Approximate Total Cost:

As discussed above, I am not huge on the fast mana in this deck and Memory Jar was discussed above as making perfect sense in this deck so these seemed like obvious swaps. I also mentioned I just had Portal as a placeholder and Painful Quandary seems like a reasonable option to put in its place.

Post by **ISBPathfinder** » 8 months ago

Any feedback on playing the deck so far? I haven't gotten mine quite off the ground for playtesting but I have about half of the deck together and just need to carve out time to push the rest of mine together. Just curious how yours is playing.

Post by **WizardMN** » 8 months ago

I haven't played too many games with it and the one game I played in person ended up in disaster where I basically did nothing.

The online games I have played have fared better though. The deck is relatively resilient, though recasting Sheoldred is tough, and the removal suite helps ensure nothing gets too out of hand. I don't have any major complaints with the deck beyond the normal issues with playing a single color such as enchantments and artifacts being tough to deal with.

Artaud · Post by **Artaud** » 8 months ago

Err... Lich's Mastery ?

Anyway you should get rid of most unnecessary fat and go cheap, more staxy route supported by life-draining draw effects. Sheoldred gives some soft of inevitability but she's slow outside of using wheel effects so discarding your foes or locking them behind Contamination gives time to set up finishing boardstate.

Post by **WizardMN** » 7 months ago

Lich's Mastery is such a blowout against me that I just don't feel comfortable running it. Sure, I draw my entire deck basically as soon as it hits the table but then what? I am still hindered by mana generation and blowing up enchantments is so easy nowadays that I likely just lose pretty soon after it hits the table. If I was playing a more aggressive, combo-y build I think it makes great sense, but I am not and it is too risky for the build I have.

First, stax is probably something that would make this deck perform better. Contamination being one of the big ones. And I do have a couple of staxy elements to the deck, it is not a lot because I don't particularly like that playstyle. And yeah, there is the potential that she is not at the best use without those elements, but I am fine with that if the deck plays how I want it to play. She still has the potential for explosiveness which is good enough for me right now. There might be other stax (or stax adjacent) cards I am willing to play but ones that work very hard towards shutting out my opponents from playing at all are not top of my list.

Post by **WizardMN** » 7 months ago

Here are my thoughts regarding Wilds of Eldraine and the Wilds of Eldraine Commander set:

Black Cards

Throne of Eldraine - This seems like it should be home in a lot of mono-colored decks and I think it fits here. 5 mana is a tall order but providing 4 mana right away means it is a net cost of 1 potentially. And drawing cards is always good in any deck and here it comes with 4 life attached to it (hopefully). I am not entirely sold on it based mostly on the cost but I think it is a worthwhile option to explore.

Post by **WizardMN** » 6 months ago

I am going to try out these changes

9/22/2023

CUTS

1 Sheoldred, Whispering One

1 Teferi's Puzzle Box

1 Psychosis Crawler

ADDS

1 Throne of Eldraine

1 Bloodchief Ascension

1 Polluted Bonds

Approximate Total Cost:

I decided I wanted to move into trying to do a few more drain effects similar to Painful Quandary. I think I like the idea of more passive life loss. It fits Sheoldred herself and with Sheoldred, Painful Quandary, and Polluted Bonds it means that nearly every action results in life loss. Bloodchief Ascension then goes on top of that to help drain even more as cards go to the graveyard. I don't know how powerful or effective this will be but I like how well it ties into Sheoldred's ability of draining for doing stuff you normally do.

Throne of Eldraine is one that I want to try partly on being a new card and potentially good for this deck. There aren't many spells it won't help to cast and being able to help keep my hand full is pretty good. 5 mana is still a lot but it does basically pay for Sheoldred on its own, not including any tax. I might not like it in the long run but I like the idea of it. One big problem with this card is that it is not on Magic Online for some reason. So I can't really test it out there.

Another card I am debating is Chains of Mephistopheles. I think there are a few card draw options I have in the deck that make everyone draw cards and Chains helps ensure that this isn't a net positive for people. Granted, this also means that *I* don't get to go up on cards either which would be frustrating.

As for cuts, other Sheoldred is nice but expensive. I think based on cost I want to cut her for now. Puzzle Box is one that I had already thought about because it tends to mess with my hand too much and it becomes too tough to plan ahead. Yeah, the life loss/gain from it with Sheoldred out is really nice but I am hoping the other additions can take care of that. Psychosis Crawler is pretty small life loss so I feel like it is probably the best third cut. Online, I will keep it since I can't get Throne, but it is the cut I will make in paper.

Post by **WizardMN** » 1 month ago

Here are my thoughts regarding Lost Caverns of Ixalan, Murder at Karlov Manor, their Commander Decks, and the Doctor Who Commander set. I know I have not been keeping up so hopefully this covers all the sets I have missed:

Black Cards

Bitter Triumph - This is a pretty good removal spell. The mana cost is right and it is versatile. 3 life is sort of a lot but could be worth it. I will probably pick some up and then see where they fit.

Bloodletter of Aclazotz - If only this was all turns or even the opponent's turn I could find a spot for it. Since it is only my turn, I don't like it quite as much here.

Starving Revenant - I like this card here. Another trigger off of me drawing that can hurt the opponents and Sheoldred can offset some of the life loss off the first two potential cards. I am not sure if I will always turn on the last ability which means the card becomes less useful. I might still try it but I can see where it might not be great.

Vislor Turlough - This is interesting. Either way it can be effective in this deck but I wonder if it will almost always be best to donate it. That way they get cards and lose life from the ability. The main issue is whether they just suicide it into something and then it is all for naught. It seems fun enough to try though.

Post by **WizardMN** » 1 month ago

2/19/2024

CUTS

1 Razaketh, the Foulblooded

ADDS

1 Starving Revenant

Approximate Total Cost:

Razaketh is high on the curve and I don't often like tutors in the general and a repeatable one can be more powerful than I like. So I am going to try cutting it for the Revenant.

I was going to add in Vislor Turlough but it isn't online so I am going to skip it for now.

EonAon · Post by **EonAon** » 1 month ago

I know its been awhile since you put it in but I've NEVER in all the times I've deckbuilt liked polluted bonds unless you can get it out like turn 3 consistently. Its a nice hate card but turn 5 turn on just seems like a waste of space deck wise. Id trade that back for the puzzle box which will draw and hurt WAY more over time than bods ever will.

Post by **WizardMN** » 1 month ago

I can agree with you on Polluted Bonds. It felt like a good one to go with to just add to incidental drain which I sort of liked for a direction for Sheoldred. I haven't played her in a while and haven't really gotten to try out Bonds much because of it. I can certainly look at that as a flex spot at best for now.

However, Puzzle Box is a bit tough for me to go back on. I prefer to be able to control my hand and plan for my next plays. Yes, I realize it is an excellent card for Sheoldred as it gains me a lot of life and drains for a lot from my opponents (depending on the number of cards in hand anyway). But the tradeoff is a little too high for me right now.

On a side note, Wilds Of Eldraine Commander decks ended up making it Online after making an earlier post so I have finally cut Psychosis Crawler in favor of Throne of Eldraine for now. Since I just picked it up, it will likely take a while to actually test it.

Your Community

Top Sections

Deck Formats

Cards & Previews

Delve Further

Community Content

Game Tools

Site Tools

Other Resources